Robbie Keane

[weldoninhio]

Interestingly, during that entire period, we were ****. It's also kind of unfair to choose your cutoff so as to just exclude goals against Spain and Germany in the World Cup Finals.

I've frequented a few football forums in my time, and I've seen this "doesn't score against big teams" crap leveled at everyone up to Thierry Henry and Zlatan Ibrahimovic. It's nonsense. Everyone scores fewer goals against top teams - that's why they're top teams. Strikers playing for mediocre or outright bad teams score sweet feck all against top teams.

The goals against germany and spain were 7 SEVEN years ago.

[John83]

The goals against germany and spain were 7 SEVEN years ago.
And we play about SEVEN games a season, very few of them against top rank opposition.

[Razors left peg]

I rate Shay Given, Kevin Doyle, Richie Dunne (although he is having a poor season), Kevin Kilbane is a honest pro, Andy Reid, Stephen Reid, McFeady has potential but has to start realising it.

So u basically think most of the Irish squad are rubbish??
makes me wonder why u even support them

[weldoninhio]

Ok, Sorry he is a goalscoring legend, he doesn't whine at every decision that goes against him or throw himself to the ground like a ragdoll at the slightest touch.

I was blind before but now i see. Down with people who have different opinions!!

[gustavo]

Ok, Sorry he is a goalscoring legend, he doesn't whine at every decision that goes against him or throw himself to the ground like a ragdoll at the slightest touch.

I was blind before but now i see. Down with people who have different opinions!!
My sarcasm detector is working tonight Hurrah , so I take it you aren't convinced of him being a goalscoring legend for us.

The criteria being for goalscoring legend I would take at it's most base level would be the ability to score goals

Which he has done for us , More than anyone ever in fact

But then again I'm sure you've got a list of players who are goalscoring legends for us apart from Robbie.

[Scram]

I'd sugest that the Muppets who continue to disparage and underestiamte the value of Robbie to Irealnd are ignored. What is the point in engaging in a "yes he is", "no he isn't" spat? Any "anti-Robbie" individual I meet is either a Man-U fan or anti-Dub with a chip on their shoulder.

This is not about opinion, it is about statistic and fact and Robbie is factually and statistically one of Ireland's best ever, and one who loves to play and produce for his country at every given opportunity.

Lets hope he's at his best for the upcoming games now that his miserable tenure at Liverpool under the attrocious and manipulative Benitez has ended.

[Stuttgart88]

Everyone scores fewer goals against top teams - that's why they're top teams. Exactly. And anyway, how many times does Robbie actually get to play against the top teams?

Weldoninhio - there've been dozens of us who criticise aspects of Keane's game: not clinical in 1-on-1s, poor attacking header of a ball, complains too much to referees and all of that. By the same token we also give credit where it's due. It's called balanced opinion.

I've never met you but I just can't shake off the mental image of Fr. Stone.

[NeilMcD]

I think he is more like another Stone to be honest.

[weldoninhio]

I'd sugest that the Muppets who continue to disparage and underestiamte the value of Robbie to Irealnd are ignored. What is the point in engaging in a "yes he is", "no he isn't" spat? Any "anti-Robbie" individual I meet is either a Man-U fan or anti-Dub with a chip on their shoulder.

This is not about opinion, it is about statistic and fact and Robbie is factually and statistically one of Ireland's best ever, and one who loves to play and produce for his country at every given opportunity.

Lets hope he's at his best for the upcoming games now that his miserable tenure at Liverpool under the attrocious and manipulative Benitez has ended.

I believe it was Benjamin Disraeli who said "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." And just to correct you, Robbie is factually and statictically Irelands best ever, not just one of Irelands best.

But statistically, Ireland play a lot more games these days, and there are a lot more teams around like San Marino, Liechtenstien, Faroe Islands and the many nations made up by the breakup of the former USSR that did not formerly exist. So statistically he has more opportunities to score.

My point was that people are expecting us to beat Bulgaria, using Keanes new found confidence and form as an example as to why we should. He has not scored against a team in the top 30 (as bulgaria are) since WC2002. Statistically speaking.

And for the record, I am from Dublin and don't support Man Utd and i'm great craic to go out with. I am more Fr Liam Finnegan than Fr Stone.

[weldoninhio]

I think he is more like another Stone to be honest.

And what Stone might that be??

[Stuttgart88]

Out of info, did you rate John Adridge?

[Sligo Hornet]

Out of info, did you rate John Adridge?

I did.......one L of a player!;)

[Stuttgart88]

I stand corrected!

[weldoninhio]

Out of info, did you rate John Adridge?

Aldridge was a great player in the system we played with him. He was not playing as an out and out striker, he was expected to make runs into the channels and drag defenders with him. Stayed on his feet and was a good honest pro

[Stuttgart88]

Took 20 games to score & even that first goal would have been Houghton's goal in any other scenario. Only decent team he ever scored against was Mexico. They're the stats, but as you say, a subjective assessment shows him in a much better light.

Surely the same same goes for Robbie. Since 2002 our central midfield has been so uncompetitive Keane has spent more time dropping deep to look for the ball and generally getting involved offensively & defensively to be considered an out and out striker too. I doubt the really prolific international goalscorers ever put in a shift like Robbie puts in for us.

That's not to say he couldn't have scored more goals - he should, definitely - and his demeanour & behaviour is really irritating at times. Quality player in the main though. I'd be gutted if he was injured or suspended for any of our upcoming games.

[weldoninhio]

Took 20 games to score, but was never our main striker, as i said he was asked to make runs into the channels to draw the defenders out. Completely different.

Can you imagine Keanes reaction if Trap told him do drop deep and when ireland got the ball they were immediately gonna pump it into the corner for him to chase and cross.

Much like the road McGeady is going down, Keane had potential but believed his own hype before he had achieved anything. And continues to do so.

[Scram]

Took 20 games to score, but was never our main striker, as i said he was asked to make runs into the channels to draw the defenders out. Completely different.

Can you imagine Keanes reaction if Trap told him do drop deep and when ireland got the ball they were immediately gonna pump it into the corner for him to chase and cross.

Much like the road McGeady is going down, Keane had potential but believed his own hype before he had achieved anything. And continues to do so.

RIDICULOUS HYPOTHESIS :rolleyes:

Go Away!!

[tetsujin1979]

Can you imagine Keanes reaction if Trap told him do drop deep and when ireland got the ball they were immediately gonna pump it into the corner for him to chase and cross.
I'd imagine he'd do it because that's what the manager told him to do.

[SkStu]

And what Stone might that be??

ex-forest winger, Steve Stone obviously.

[Stuttgart88]

Took 20 games to score, but was never our main striker, as i said he was asked to make runs into the channels to draw the defenders out. Completely different. So you don't buy into the perception that Robbie works hard in other areas of the pitch?

You remind me of my dad and my uncle watching Irish rugby when I was growing up. They were only happy when we lost, dissecting every aspect of the team's performance, the captain and the selectors. They were all "bloody eejits". Not a word out of either of them when we won the triple crown in '85, my uncle even slagging off Ciaran Fitzgerald's famous fingers to his temples gesture (I think that was '85) , asking his team to think, as utter nonsense.

[Stuttgart88]

RIDICULOUS HYPOTHESIS :rolleyes:

Go Away!!
Hey, I tried to draw sensible comment. I even fed him a pretty-hard-to-argue-with contention and still....

[Stuttgart88]

Can you imagine Keanes reaction if Trap told him do drop deep I'd imagine he'd say "but I always do boss".

[geysir]

I'd expect Robbie to say,
"how deep boss"?

[weldoninhio]

I'd imagine he'd say "but I always do boss".

surely if you are going to quote someone you would use the whole sentence.

[Stuttgart88]

Can you imagine Keanes reaction if Trap told him do drop deep and when ireland got the ball they were immediately gonna pump it into the corner for him to chase and cross.I think that's too simplistic a comparison. Even Dunphy admitted that Ireland's play under Charlton was far more subtle than a simple "pump it long" game. Aldridge certainly worked his socks off ("wore my legs to stumps" is what he said in frustration at Jack's tactics after a 0-0 draw in Hungary) but not so much by dropping deep & subsequently chasing into the corners but by pressing their defenders. When we were in possession he was actually well served by good wide players, overlapping full backs and clever midfield players.

I think you can at least partly explain Keane's lack of goals against tier 1 teams since 2002 by (a) he drops deep to get on the ball - otherwise he'd never see it because, (b) we have had our poorest CM in my memory of watching Ireland (over 30 years) and (c) we have been at our least competitive over the last 5 years so chances against tier 1 teams are far fewer.

Sure, I can think of chances missed, Germany and Czechs at home last time out stick out. Aldridge's miss against Russia is imprinted on my brain. So too are a lot of Robbie's 39 goals though.

[NeilMcD]

Say that again 37 goals in how many matches mid 86s so its a goal every 2.35 or something like that which compares quite favourably against any of the top international scorers like Henry, Raul, Shevechenko and Owen over the last 10 years.

[weldoninhio]

Like i've said before, you can prove anything with stats. Clinton Morrisons goals per game ratio is the exact same as Kevin Doyle in international matches, but there is no clamour to get him back involved, while Doyle is revered.

[John83]

Like i've said before, you can prove anything with stats. Clinton Morrisons goals per game ratio is the exact same as Kevin Doyle in international matches, but there is no clamour to get him back involved, while Doyle is revered.
I always liked Clinton. I think he's attracted a bit more stick on here than he really deserved.

[elroy]

I always liked Clinton. I think he's attracted a bit more stick on here than he really deserved.

I think the guy was undeservedly dropped by Stan and irrespective of club form always did reasonably well for us. Every bit as good an option as Caleb Folan imo. CM was a character, a good guy to have around to squad and scored one or two very good goals, notably away to the Swiss.

[tetsujin1979]

Clinton Morrisons goals per game ratio is the exact same as Kevin Doyle in international matches
How do you figure that?
Clinton Morrison - 9 goals in 36 appearances (22 starts + 14 introductions)
Kevin Doyle - 6 goals in 23 appearances (20 starts + 3 introductions)

[the-blue-harp]

I always liked Clinton. I think he's attracted a bit more stick on here than he really deserved.

kevin doyle has probably been our best player consistantly throughout this campaign I would say that explains a lot.

[Fizzer]

How do you figure that?
Clinton Morrison - 9 goals in 36 appearances (22 starts + 14 introductions)
Kevin Doyle - 6 goals in 23 appearances (20 starts + 3 introductions)


I'd say he figures it because it's mathematically correct.
Still rather have Doyle, but Clint's a better option than Folan

[magnumpi]

clinton scored our away goals against switzerland and israel, and bagged the opener against cyprus in the 2006 world cup Qf campaign.

they pick folan because he's an aerial threat, but i'd have clinto in anyday.

note: clinto and roy keane got along very well, i could never understand that one.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd have Clinton over Folan too.

I also think he's a positive & cheerful character, very valuable to have in a squad environment. A dressing room needs that type of presence - I think most people who've played can think of at least one guy in their squad whose very presence made the whole team feel better.

[PartySaint]

Does anyone know while Robbie was at Inter did he play in a Milan derby?

[John83]

I can't find a record of the games he did play, but he only played six competitive games for them, so I doubt it.

[weldoninhio]

How do you figure that?
Clinton Morrison - 9 goals in 36 appearances (22 starts + 14 introductions)
Kevin Doyle - 6 goals in 23 appearances (20 starts + 3 introductions)

i figured it by firstly dividing 36 appearances by 9 goals getting a "ratio" of 1:4 (1 goal every 4 games) for Clinto.

Then, now pay attention for this bit,

I divided Kevin Doyles 6 goals by the 24 (ref : Wiki & Soccer Republic & FAI) games he played and amazingly got the ratio of 1:4 (1 goal every 4 games).

Did they not teach maths in your school??

[christo]

i figured it by firstly dividing 36 appearances by 9 goals getting a "ratio" of 1:4 (1 goal every 4 games) for Clinto.

You do have to take into account that 14 of morrisons appearances he came on as a sub

[BigmanCas]

I'd say he figures it because it's mathematically correct.
Still rather have Doyle, but Clint's a better option than Folan
you'd have Doyle over Clinton Morrisson would you??? Doyle has been arguably man of the match in Irelands' last 4 outings.

[NeilMcD]

Like i've said before, you can prove anything with stats. Clinton Morrisons goals per game ratio is the exact same as Kevin Doyle in international matches, but there is no clamour to get him back involved, while Doyle is revered.

I agree that stats dont mean anything but that is not reason to dismiss all stats as a result. It has become very popular on this site for people to say you can prove anythin with stats and think they can lie back and they have won the debate with this pearl of wisdom. Some stats are misleading and need greater scrutiny.

However when someons plays over 80 times for their country and scores 37 times it is a pretty good ratio and its over a significant amount of games and time for it to mean something. We are generally either 3rd or 2nd seeds so generally play better teams than say Spain or England yet Robbie Keanes goal scoring ratio in that time stands up with the very best. If someone has only played 20 times then their goal scorin ratio does not mean as much.

[tetsujin1979]

i figured it by firstly dividing 36 appearances by 9 goals getting a "ratio" of 1:4 (1 goal every 4 games) for Clinto.

Then, now pay attention for this bit,

I divided Kevin Doyles 6 goals by the 24 (ref : Wiki & Soccer Republic & FAI) games he played and amazingly got the ratio of 1:4 (1 goal every 4 games).

Did they not teach maths in your school??
touché

[Fizzer]

you'd have Doyle over Clinton Morrisson would you??? Doyle has been arguably man of the match in Irelands' last 4 outings.

Emm Yeah, Think you may have read my post wrong Bigman. Doyle's been fantastic for us since he came in and I would therefore prefer him to Morrisson. All I said was, I'd have Morrison in the squad before Folan. I Think we might be singing off the same page here chief.

[Stuttgart88]

Never scores against the big teams, though he may have scored twice: that's robbie.

May have found his most useful position tonight.

[Wexford Delboy]

Never scores against the big teams, though he may have scored twice: that's robbie.

May have found his most useful position tonight.

i dunno world champions maybe just maybe they might be a big team

[Jicked]

What's Robbie's goalscoring record under Trap like now? He must be one of Europe's most in form strikers?

[Stuttgart88]

i dunno world champions maybe just maybe they might be a big teamok, world champions away.:)

But that's Robbie, he always leaves you with a "if only" taste in the mouth. We were THAT close to beating Italy away! Very good performance. If anyone is in any doubt how lucky we are to have him watch tonight again.

[irishultra]

kinda ironic it was lippi who brought keane to inter.:)

[OwlsFan]

Please God that is the end of the "Keane never scores against big teams" tripe that we have had to put up with. Magic Robbie but if only you scored that second....

[Scram]

ok, world champions away.:)

But that's Robbie, he always leaves you with a "if only" taste in the mouth. We were THAT close to beating Italy away! Very good performance. If anyone is in any doubt how lucky we are to have him watch tonight again.

I'll need to watch again because I thought he was hardly in the game until he scored the goal, but then I was probably expecting too much, I thought he might run at the defence more.

It's been obvious for years that he does his best work when facing defenders outside of the box and not sitting in their with his back to goal.

Just an hypothesis but imagine he hadn't scored the first goal and that second chance that he missed was the only chance he had, the judgment here would be vastly diifferent over him "missing a sitter" !

[Duggie]

Please God that is the end of the "Keane never scores against big teams" tripe that we have had to put up with. Magic Robbie but if only you scored that second....

ya it makes me laugh that muck about who he scored against, hes scored 38 goals but some people still question him..WTF. God forbid he gets injured EVER. hes a legend fullstop.