Robbie Keane

[Diggs246]

Hamas are terrorists and Israel are tyrants.... no good guys in this one

[Fixer82]

Save your anti-Semitic rant for another forum

Really?? Why does criticism of Israel always have to be ‘antisemitic’? Such a childish insult to throw at someone.

I’m disgusted by Hamas but I also am disgusted at the actions of the IDF.

Does that make me an islamophobe and antisemitic?

[elatedscum]

most of all, across the board, i really hope there's as few civilian deaths as possible. as always, when all is said and done, i suspect the palestinian deaths will end up a multiple of the israeli deaths (in the 2014 war, there were 73 deaths - 6 civilian - on the israeli side including IDF friendly fire and a civilian having heart attacks due to noise, versus 2251 deaths on the palestinian side - 65% civilian - using UNHCR figures)

i hope this doesn't offend anyone - but yesterday i couldn't help notice similarities in a number of respects to 1916. i've no doubt in today's parlance, Connolly, Pearse and everyone else would have been considered terrorists...

[SkStu]

Hamas are terrorists and Israel are tyrants.... no good guys in this one

About as reasonable a take as there is on the situation. There’s a general tendency online to paint Israel as the sole culprits in all of this but their needless land grabs and complete inflexibility is matched equally on the other side in terms of rhetoric and aggression. A question for another thread but how on earth do you even begin to fix it? The occupation and land grabbing is definitely a root cause but even if that were to be reversed, the animosity towards Israel as a nation state from Hamas and all the other players in the region likely wouldn’t stop.

[SkStu]

most of all, across the board, i really hope there's as few civilian deaths as possible. as always, when all is said and done, i suspect the palestinian deaths will end up a multiple of the israeli deaths (in the 2014 war, there were 73 deaths - 6 civilian - on the israeli side including IDF friendly fire and a civilian having heart attacks due to noise, versus 2251 deaths on the palestinian side - 65% civilian - using UNHCR figures)

i hope this doesn't offend anyone - but yesterday i couldn't help notice similarities in a number of respects to 1916. i've no doubt in today's parlance, Connolly, Pearse and everyone else would have been considered terrorists...

The situation is similar - maybe more similar to the plantation in the north going back a few hundred years right thru to the subsequent “troubles” there after Irish independence - but either way the geopolitical context in the region is very different and adds a whole additional layer of complexity to the situation in the ME.

[pineapple stu]

A question for another thread but how on earth do you even begin to fix it? The occupation and land grabbing is definitely a root cause but even if that were to be reversed, the animosity towards Israel as a nation state from Hamas and all the other players in the region likely wouldn’t stop.
It's a tricky question alright. I think you're right about one of the core causes and that has to stop. I think you're right that if it stopped tinnitus, Hamas et al wouldn't stop their bombings - and that'd be a really awkward position politically, to be attacked and to turn the other cheek. But in time the animosity would heal I think. Anglo-Irish relations have healed significantly in 40 years for example.

I do get the feeling this conflict, if similar to ours, is nastier. I don't know if we ever had an equivalent attack to today for example. I think general anti-Semitism in Islam is an extra layer to contend with too.

Dervla Murphy - whose 1976 book A Place Apart is credited with a small part in achieving peace in the North - wrote her last two travel books on trips to Palestine and Israel. The petty and daily racism the Palestinians encounter is amazing; the sort of stuff you never see in the news. She reckoned the only solution was the one-state solution; Israel has its claws into Palestinian territory too much. Is that achievable? Would power sharing have been considered achievable in a generation up North when Paisley was peak bigot?

Oh, and dismissing a post as an "anti-Semitic rant" with no follow up points is just a way of avoiding an actual debate. Same as how criticism of Islam is usually islamophobic or criticism of trans stuff is transphobic. To label someone "phobic" and make them out to be the bad guys, with no other points, is just lazy. It deserves to be ridiculed as an argument

[mark12345]

About as reasonable a take as there is on the situation. There’s a general tendency online to paint Israel as the sole culprits in all of this but their needless land grabs and complete inflexibility is matched equally on the other side in terms of rhetoric and aggression. A question for another thread but how on earth do you even begin to fix it? The occupation and land grabbing is definitely a root cause but even if that were to be reversed, the animosity towards Israel as a nation state from Hamas and all the other players in the region likely wouldn’t stop.

Some solid points here. I would also add that there are outside influences contributing to this current conflict (namely Iran) who according to sources in America on Sunday morning were squarely behind this attack. Innocent lives on both sides have been lost because some people don't want peace in the region

[elatedscum]

Some solid points here. I would also add that there are outside influences contributing to this current conflict (namely Iran) who according to sources in America on Sunday morning were squarely behind this attack. Innocent lives on both sides have been lost because some people don't want peace in the region

Iran may well be behind it (financially? strategically?) - but I wouldn't trust US sources. Iran and the sanctions imposed on them are used by republicans and right leaning media to criticise Obama and Biden. There's also various lobby groups that would have a vested interest in increased sanctions on Iran. The links are there but it's easy to find sources to either downplay or overestimate. So, the extend of Iranian involvement is something I'd pause on for a little bit...

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-republican-2024-candidates-trump-4fc0bf20c40acdcf49a579db79bec035

[tetsujin1979]

I think we can leave it there
If you want to continue discussing the conflict, please use the current affairs forum

[Fixer82]

Fair play to all (except one) on a brief and civilised debate on the issue.

Now, to get back to topic, hopefully Robbie and Delap are safe.

[weldoninhio]

Terrible events. Hopefully he’s doing ok. And hopefully Hamas can be brought under swift control to ensure ongoing safety of his family

Take the apartheid shekel and you get everything you deserve.

Edit: posted when reading chronologically, before I saw Tetsujin post.

[dahamsta]

Save your anti-Semitic rant for another forum

You will not post that on this forum again. Criticism of a government or state is not anti-semitism, and parrotting the claim is propagandising. I will not tolerate it here. I'm not giving an infraction for this post, but if you repeat it, I'll suspend you.

To repeat what tets said, discussion on this subject is welcome, in the CA forum. This is a football thread, keep it football please.

[Diggs246]

Ive been checking CNN, BBC and al jazeera and not one of them mentioned that we need Israel to do well in the football to give us half a chance of a play off

[elatedscum]

You will not post that on this forum again. Criticism of a government or state is not anti-semitism, and parrotting the claim is propagandising. I will not tolerate it here. I'm not giving an infraction for this post, but if you repeat it, I'll suspend you.

To repeat what tets said, discussion on this subject is welcome, in the CA forum. This is a football thread, keep it football please.

Directly related to this and relating to football, is that in the UK, the premier league and the efl and most high profile clubs have adopted the IHRA definition of anti-semitism:

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1922439
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/418419-lfc-adopts-ihra-working-definition-of-antisemitism
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/manchester-united-adopts-ihra-working-definition-of-antisemitism (etc etc)

The definition is here: https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definitions-charters/working-definition-antisemitism

Anyone who reads the examples can immediately see issues with many of them. It conflates criticism of zionism and Israel with criticism of judaism. The widespread acceptance of this definition, and the accusations of anti-semitism that then follow have led to this creeping concept that any criticism of israel is by default anti-semitic.

This letter does a better job of explaining the issues people have with it: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/nov/29/palestinian-rights-and-the-ihra-definition-of-antisemitism

[CraftyToePoke]

Thread opened in Current Affairs lads. Some interesting stuff surfacing on this.

[Fixer82]

Just one last point i'd like to make.
At one point in time, I was particularly anti-Israeli Goalkeepers.
And I would bet that Andy O'Brien was too at that time.

[dahamsta]

No more "last points". And no more warnings.

[Fixer82]

No more "last points". And no more warnings.

Maybe take the post as it was intended.
A light-hearted way to bring it back to football.

[pineapple stu]

I'm not sure Adam knows who Dudu Aouate was :)

Edit - crikey; he played 11 seasons in La Liga. Did not know that.

[Yard of Pace]

I'm not sure Adam knows who Dudu Aouate was :)

Edit - crikey; he played 11 seasons in La Liga. Did not know that.

Even one of his own team-mates broke his nose at one point.

Possibly my least favourite Ireland game ever that one at home. And the away, now I think about it....

[Eminence Grise]

I'm not sure Adam knows who Dudu Aouate was :)

Edit - crikey; he played 11 seasons in La Liga. Did not know that.

I thought it was only four, but he wasted so much time it felt like 11.

[SkStu]

Last point on this. Robbie Keane was the greatest Irish striker ever.

[dahamsta]

I'm not sure Adam knows who Dudu Aouate was :)

Correct. Sorry!

[elatedscum]

Even one of his own team-mates broke his nose at one point.

Possibly my least favourite Ireland game ever that one at home. And the away, now I think about it....

i think i was only around 14 at that game. me and my best friend. i've never experienced a more toxic atmosphere in my entire life, walking out, the pure hatred and anger, the sense of being absolutely robbed, with the penalty and the red card and the time wasting.

dunno if you'd get two 14 year olds going to a game alone these days. kinda hope you still would. it was special...

[Stuttgart88]

It was dreadful. And to make it worse that absolute ball bag of a keeper made an unbelievable late save from a close range John O'Shea diving header. Absolute certain goal.

Kerr came in for criticism (fairly imho) but despite all that, it could so easily have been 5-2, no debate. Their pen was so soft.

[tetsujin1979]

I was on the north stand that day, and had a was listening to radio commentary. After the red card, which was on the opposite side of the pitch, I asked everyone to be quiet so I could hear what had actually happened.
When I said that the keeper had taken a dive, but from the ref's point of view it looked like O'Brien had punched him, all around me started booing!

[Diggs246]

I think I remember booing you !

[Stuttgart88]

I had two super hot Israeli chicks in front of me in the West Lower. Only highlight of the second half.

[osarusan]

I went to Dudu's wiki page expecting it to make particular, biting, reference to that game, but it doesn't at all. You lads are slipping.

[pineapple stu]

I see UEFA have suspended the Israeli league while the current hostilities are ongoing. That looks like it could last a while yet. Not sure where that leaves Keane contract-wise. If he's out of a job, it may make it easier to appoint him national team manager when Kenny's contract expires (which is this month I think?)

Current record for the season is 11 wins and three draws from 15 games.

He's untried largely, and I'd need to be convinced, but half a mill a year may be a step up from what he's on now and he's at a loose end. He has to be a serious candidate I think

[Razors left peg]

I see UEFA have suspended the Israeli league while the current hostilities are ongoing. That looks like it could last a while yet. Not sure where that leaves Keane contract-wise. If he's out of a job, it may make it easier to appoint him national team manager when Kenny's contract expires (which is this month I think?)

Current record for the season is 11 wins and three draws from 15 games.

He's untried largely, and I'd need to be convinced, but half a mill a year may be a step up from what he's on now and he's at a loose end. He has to be a serious candidate I think

Wouldn't be my 1st choice but he started very well there, he might be better than expected

[ontheotherhand]

It would make me question a lot if Robbie Keane turns out to be a good manager....but it would be some story arc!

[Razors left peg]

It would make me question a lot if Robbie Keane turns out to be a good manager....but it would be some story arc!

Not saying he is going to be but he got off to almost as good start as possible this season. I'd prefer him to some of names mentioned but it would definitely more in hope than confidence that it would work

[elatedscum]

Presumably they'll play out the europa conference league with him until december at the very least. uefa prize money would make it worthwhile, even if they're playing their games in Hungary or whatever

[ontheotherhand]

Not saying he is going to be but he got off to almost as good start as possible this season. I'd prefer him to some of names mentioned but it would definitely more in hope than confidence that it would work

I don't know that league at all to be honest but I'd be wary enough of making any judgments after half a season or less. Declan Devine had bohs as league champions in April. How good was the team Keane had available? How many did he sign? Did they change approach? I've no idea.

I loved Robbie as a player. Hated the stick he got at times. I hope he does become a great manager.

[seanfhear]

We might at least be able to afford Robbie Keane.

[pineapple stu]

Plus he might actually be interested

The reservations expressed are all entirely valid of course

[seanfhear]

Mick McCarthy did not have all that much experience when he took the Irish job the first time ~ And he did have some success as Irish manager.

[Eirambler]

Didn't he have Millwall top or close to the top of what is now the Championship when he left them for the Ireland job. Hiring McCarthy then would have been something similar to hiring Kieran McKenna today. Unfortunately the game has moved on and someone like McKenna is likely to be well outside our price range now.

[seanfhear]

Didn't he have Millwall top or close to the top of what is now the Championship when he left them for the Ireland job. Hiring McCarthy then would have been something similar to hiring Kieran McKenna today. Unfortunately the game has moved on and someone like McKenna is likely to be well outside our price range now.
He was doing very well at Millwall ~ ~ Then when it was announced that he would be getting the Irish job at the end of the season ~ Millwall went in to a catastrophic free-fall ~ Were they even relegated ? ~ I can't remember but the free-fall was so bad that they must have ( I reckon )

Annouce-ing early in a season that a manager is leaving at the end of the season, rarely if ever works out well.

If McCarthy's cv was to be judged on that free-fall he would have been lucky to have ever got a job again. When all is said and done McCarthy did not have, that much of a managerial record when he got the Irish job the first time around.

[Eirambler]

He was doing very well at Millwall ~ ~ Then when it was announced that he would be getting the Irish job at the end of the season ~ Millwall went in to a catastrophic free-fall ~ Were they even relegated ? ~ I can't remember but the free-fall was so bad that they must have ( I reckon )

Annouce-ing early in a season that a manager is leaving at the end of the season, rarely if ever works out well.

If McCarthy's cv was to be judged on that free-fall he would have been lucky to have ever got a job again. When all is said and done McCarthy did not have, that much of a managerial record when he got the Irish job the first time around.

I don't think that's quite what happened. He left in February, at which time Millwall were still right up near the top of the table. He was replaced by a northern Irish manager, Jimmy Nicholl, and the team went into free fall under Nicholl and were relegated. But that can't really be blamed on Mick to be fair - he wasn't there when the collapse happened.

[seanfhear]

I seem to have got quite a bit of that wrong as the information below proves ~ My memory must be going a bit ~ Anyway ~ Apologies ~

From wikipedia

McCarthy became player-manager at Millwall (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millwall_F.C.) in March 1992, succeeding Bruce Rioch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Rioch). In his first full season (1992–93), he was still registered as a player, but made only one further appearance (in the Anglo-Italian Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Italian_Cup)), before he became solely a manager.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
He took the club to the play-offs in 1993–94 after a strong third-place finish, but they lost out to Derby County (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_County_F.C.) in the semi-finals. During the 1995–96 season, McCarthy became the prime candidate for the vacant Republic of Ireland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland_national_football_team) manager's job, after the resignation of Jack Charlton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Charlton). After a protracted period of speculation, McCarthy was officially appointed on 5 February 1996, two days after his resignation at the club. Despite sitting a comfortable 14 points clear from the relegation zone at the time of his departure, Millwall would go on to suffer the drop (by virtue of goals scored) after McCarthy's departure.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
His loan signings of the underachieving Russian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia) internationals Sergei Yuran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Yuran) and Vassili Kulkov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vassili_Kulkov) from Spartak Moscow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Spartak_Moscow), who each received a £150,000 signing-on fee and were being paid five times the wage of the rest of the first team, would later be cited[by whom? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Words_to_watch#Unsupported_attributions)] as one of the main reasons Millwall were eventually relegated under Jimmy Nicholl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Nicholl), although it cannot be proven.[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_McCarthy#cite_note-Bethel-13)

[pineapple stu]

Another few wins for Robbie - Maccabi topped their Conference League group with 15 points to reach the last 16 of any European competition for the first time; it's also the first time they've won a European group.

The league has also resumed after two months off (which is a different thread of course - though it's interesting that there's been no talk of Israel being suspended from UEFA the same way Russia has been), and Keane has another two wins from two. Full record this season is 17 wins and 3 draws from 21 games. Scoring three goals a game too.

[weldoninhio]

Another few wins for Robbie - Maccabi topped their Conference League group with 15 points to reach the last 16 of any European competition for the first time; it's also the first time they've won a European group.

The league has also resumed after two months off (which is a different thread of course - though it's interesting that there's been no talk of Israel being suspended from UEFA the same way Russia has been), and Keane has another two wins from two. Full record this season is 17 wins and 3 draws from 21 games. Scoring three goals a game too.

Should be banned from all sporting organisations. Would hinder Keane's career, but is the right thing for the world to do.

[LurcherLover]

Great to Terry still alive in other forums.

[Razors left peg]

Leaving aside all the politics of where hes working, it has to be said that Robbie is doing a fine job so far. I've probably said it a few times on here already, but my biggest hope for him was that he'd do well enough to get a 2nd job. He might be surpassing that at the moment with how well hes doing, he might find himself sought after if he keeps it up.

He'd actually be my personal 2nd favorite right now to take the Ireland job

[Fixer82]

Leaving aside all the politics of where hes working, it has to be said that Robbie is doing a fine job so far. I've probably said it a few times on here already, but my biggest hope for him was that he'd do well enough to get a 2nd job. He might be surpassing that at the moment with how well hes doing, he might find himself sought after if he keeps it up.

He'd actually be my personal 2nd favorite right now to take the Ireland job

It would be madness to give him the job now. That would be like giving Ronnie Whelan the job after he managed in Cyprus

[Razors left peg]

It would be madness to give him the job now. That would be like giving Ronnie Whelan the job after he managed in Cyprus

Hes not going to get it, but based on how hes going so far I wouldnt be surprised to see him in the job in future

[Jolly Red Giant]

It would be madness to give him the job now. That would be like giving Ronnie Whelan the job after he managed in Cyprus
It would be madness to give Robbie Keane the job at anytime - he is a showboater who is interest in money and image.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Hes not going to get it, but based on how hes going so far I wouldnt be surprised to see him in the job in future
Managing Maccabi Tel Aviv in Israel is like managing Celtic in Scotland - over the past eleven years they have won five championships, came second four times and third twice. They are owned by a Canadian billionaire. Israeli teams are restricted to six non-Israeli players so Maccabi Tel Aviv end up with all (or most) of the best Israeli players who haven't gone abroad - they currently have 7 players in the Israeli squad - all the other Israeli teams have 7 players combined. They have several players in their squad that cost in excess of €1million.