Everton and Liverpool discussion

[KildareFan]

I know poor old hibbert is getting caught a lot lately but he is a great tackler one of the best its his distrabution that lets him down but ive watched jags play at right back as well and he was worse , he is a midfielder really , id prefere if jags came in for Neville who can shoot cant pass cant tackle

If that's the case, i'd prefer Neville at right back than Hibbert. All everton fans have been saying for a long time that Hibbert is excellent except for his passing but passing is a huge part of football, the amout of moves that break down when the ball reaches him crossing the halfway line is ridiculous. Neville is a much better crosser of the ball created a few goals last year like AJ's excellent at White Hart Lane last year

[drinkfeckarse]

Anto here's a question for you. Do you think Gabby Agbonlahor is the 10th best player in the Premiership.

If you answer (A - Yes) then you know nothing about football.

If you answer (B- No) then you will disprove the very point you are trying to make.

Stats show you how many times someone passed or shot or how many yards he ran etc. If you think that gives you the whole picture you should give the FAI a call. They are full of people who don't "get" football.

[anto1208]

Anto here's a question for you. Do you think Gabby Agbonlahor is the 10th best player in the Premiership.

If you answer (A - Yes) then you know nothing about football.

If you answer (B- No) then you will disprove the very point you are trying to make.

Stats show you how many times someone passed or shot or how many yards he ran etc. If you think that gives you the whole picture you should give the FAI a call. They are full of people who don't "get" football.


here was me thinking running passing and shooting where important parts of the game , oh silly me so what is it that makes you a good footballer? its not what you do on the pitch its what you dont do :rolleyes::confused:

clowns

[drinkfeckarse]

The truth hurts eh Anto, anyone using Opto stats to try and argue how good a player is has shot himself in the foot before he's even started :D

Care to answer the question?

[anto1208]

The truth hurts eh Anto, anyone using Opto stats to try and argue how good a player is has shot himself in the foot before he's even started :D

Care to answer the question?

I wouldnt have seen enough of gabby to know how good he is clearly you have watched a lot of villa games are therefor you are better able to judge , but i would say looking at the table it seems to be pretty acurate

ie
1 D Drogba Top scorer
2 C Ronaldo player of the season
3 D Berbatov spurs best player
4 W Rooney fantastic player
5 F Lampard fantastic player
6 M Arteta genius
7 F Fabregas genius
8 G Barry
9 B McCarthy 18goals in his first year
10 G Agbonlahor

the only two i wouldnt know much about are the villa boys but to score so highly in a below par team they must have played well .

But to answer your question i dont use the stats to pick my best players but i am able to call on them to back up my point of view.


Why dont you answer the question on how do you rate a player ?

is it if he plays for a top club ?

in that case liverpool have no top players and john o shea and darren fletcher are top players so thats not a good method .

Is it because he plays for the international side as 4tothefloor suggests ?

in that case ledly king is better than Carra:eek: im sure if i checked a certain other thread id find ye argueing against that very point .

Stats ?

No you cant use stats to prove how well they played

im looking foward to finding out your method of judging players ability without watching them play or using stats , perhaps you know so much about football that you can just tell a great player by looking at there name .

[drinkfeckarse]

Anto, I read the first couple of lines and I can see you're shirking so I can't even be bothered reading the rest of your post mate. It's taken you 2 hours to come back and you still can't answer.

Its really quite simple. Do you think Agbonlahor is the 10th best player in the Premiership? If not you've shot your own argument down.

[chuckie]

I wouldnt have seen enough of gabby to know how good he is clearly you have watched a lot of villa games are therefor you are better able to judge , but i would say looking at the table it seems to be pretty acurate

ie
1 D Drogba Top scorer
2 C Ronaldo player of the season
3 D Berbatov spurs best player
4 W Rooney fantastic player
5 F Lampard fantastic player
6 M Arteta genius
7 F Fabregas genius
8 G Barry
9 B McCarthy 18goals in his first year
10 G Agbonlahor

the only two i wouldnt know much about are the villa boys but to score so highly in a below par team they must have played well .

But to answer your question i dont use the stats to pick my best players but i am able to call on them to back up my point of view.


Why dont you answer the question on how do you rate a player ?

is it if he plays for a top club ?

in that case liverpool have no top players and john o shea and darren fletcher are top players so thats not a good method .

Is it because he plays for the international side as 4tothefloor suggests ?

in that case ledly king is better than Carra:eek: im sure if i checked a certain other thread id find ye argueing against that very point .

Stats ?

No you cant use stats to prove how well they played

im looking foward to finding out your method of judging players ability without watching them play or using stats , perhaps you know so much about football that you can just tell a great player by looking at there name .

Even you admit the stats are wrong. If ronaldo was player of the season why is he only number 2. By that logic Chelsea won the league last season

[anto1208]

Anto, I read the first couple of lines and I can see you're shirking so I can't even be bothered reading the rest of your post mate. It's taken you 2 hours to come back and you still can't answer.

Its really quite simple. Do you think Agbonlahor is the 10th best player in the Premiership? If not you've shot your own argument down.

A) I HAVE OTHER THINGS TO DO BESIDE ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS
B) IF YOU HAD READ PAST THE 2ND LINE YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN THIS

But to answer your question i dont use the stats to pick my best players but i am able to call on them to back up my point of view.

now how about you answer the question ? you have 2 hours ( just to be fair !!)

[drinkfeckarse]

You use the stats as proof that Arteta is class and then you say " I don't use stats to pick the best players"......

I really don't want to waste any more time on this. Accept you've boobed and move on, it happens to the best of us ;)

[anto1208]

You use the stats as proof that Arteta is class and then you say " I don't use stats to pick the best players"......

I really don't want to waste any more time on this. Accept you've boobed and move on, it happens to the best of us ;)

HAHA BRILLIANT you should be a politician did you go to bertie’s school on dodging questions

why dont you answer the question anyway just for the laugh id love to know how to judge a player by your methods

[mypost]

A) I HAVE OTHER THINGS TO DO BESIDE ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS

Oooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Anto gets nasty?? :eek:

He's been at it for 3 years, posted 2k+ times, yet still never fails to amuse us, whether it's his views, or his stats. There's more holes in them than the ozone layer. :D

[anto1208]

Oooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Anto gets nasty??

He's been at it for 3 years, posted 2k+ times, yet still never fails to amuse us, whether it's his views, or his stats. There's more holes in them than the ozone layer. D

thats 2 holes so??:confused::p

[BohsPartisan]

Great win for the toffees tonight eh?

[anto1208]

Great win for the toffees tonight eh?

Hard work but a good win 2 games 5 goals 6 points cant complain about that .

Felt moyes should have taken off vic at 70 mins give pienaar a run out . Osman had a good game again .

[SkStu]

great win - get to see nearly every game here for FREE at the moment (setanta launching)!

thought Arteta was immense with Carsley. Lescott was a great signing too.

im a little worried that Pienaar and Jagielka arent featuring in starting line-ups yet but when we're playing like we are i guess its gonna be hard to break into that midfield.

[reder]

Credit where credit is due :spits: the Evertonians did a good job last night. Spurs are a bit of a mess but Everton still had to go out and do the job, so fair play.

However, the bitters that are going on about a definite top 3 finish and a tilt at the title are a bit premature in my eyes.

[anto1208]

Credit where credit is due :spits: the Evertonians did a good job last night. Spurs are a bit of a mess but Everton still had to go out and do the job, so fair play.

However, the bitters that are going on about a definite top 3 finish and a tilt at the title are a bit premature in my eyes.

I think ill wait untill after the 3rd game at least :D , still not as bad as the liverpool fans thinking that THIS IS OUR YEAR to challenge for the tittle before a ball is kicked .


great win - get to see nearly every game here for FREE at the moment (setanta launching)!

thought Arteta was immense with Carsley. Lescott was a great signing too.

im a little worried that Pienaar and Jagielka arent featuring in starting line-ups yet but when we're playing like we are i guess its gonna be hard to break into that midfield.

Well its a good tactic by moyes that no one is garunteed a first team place, that you won't just walk into the team and looking at last night they have a fight on there hands . On current form Ossy carsley ( again fantastic ) and arteta won t loose there spot . Even Neville did well by his own standards .

But its a long season with knocks mid week cup games etc they will all be needed . Dissspointed that VDM wasnt on the bench though hope its not anything gone wrong with his kid .

[anto1208]

Manny is finishing his medical this morning and with personal terms finalised with him, Benfica and GSI he should be registered in time to be eligible for Reading tomorow .

[reder]

Call the weekend results!

Im actually firmly believe we are stronger than Chelsea at the mo. Terry coming back is a major boost for the chavs but I still think we will win 2-1.

Bitters wont lose at Reading. Reading are struggling and will struggle to score against the bluenose defensive in its current form. I have a feeling Everton might sneak it 2-1 but playing safe I will predict a 1-1.

[KildareFan]

Yakubu left out of the boro squad, only a matter of time now before he is an everton player. I'm not 100% sure about him but I'll trust Moyes to get the bset out of him.

To think some people were complaining or slagging off Moyes cos he wouldn't pay ridiculous money for average players like Koumas, Richardson etc

Barring any last minute hitches we will have brought in Jagieka, Baines, Pienarr, Yakubu and Fernandes. That is a very good summers work by Moyes. Today's squad is totally incomparable to the one in place when Moyes took over. He has totally turned our club around.

It's hard not to get very excited about how we could do this season now, there is nobody that will look forward to playing us, that is for sure.

As for this weekend, i think i see draws all round, we'll draw at Reading and i think two draws on Sunday as well

[reder]

It's hard not to get very excited about how we could do this season now, there is nobody that will look forward to playing us, that is for sure.


Why would people be worried about playing you? You dont turn into world beaters in the space of a few games. Agree with you that Citeh and mancs will be a draw.

[KildareFan]

Why would people be worried about playing you? You dont turn into world beaters in the space of a few games. Agree with you that Citeh and mancs will be a draw.

Why wouldn't they be worried about playing us? We finished 6th last season and since then have shipped out a lot of crap and brought in some really good players. In people like Arteta, Johnson, Lescott, Yobo and Howard, we already had some top class players. We went to the side who supposedly were going to break into the top 4 and comprehensively outplayed them and still have people like cahill and vaughan to come back from injury.

I'm trying very hard not to get carried away but this could be a very good season for us

[drinkfeckarse]

Can't knock your optimism. 8th is where I think you'll end up.

[chuckie]

The Graham Poll referee of the season award goes to...
Rob Styles:mad:

[dfx-]

Alan Kelly would've laughed at that one

[superfrank]

It was never a peno. Malouda clearly jumped over the ball before your man clattered into him. No foul. It wasn't a dive either as some Liverpool fans were suggesting.

However, I'll always take a point from any game where we didn't deserve anything.

[DmanDmythDledge]

It was never a peno. Malouda clearly jumped over the ball before your man clattered into him. No foul. It wasn't a dive either as some Liverpool fans were suggesting.
:eek: Malouda clearly jumped into Finnan and fouled him- it should have been a free out. Drogba was offside too.

[reder]

It was never a penalty, we all know the but we only have ourselves to blame for not getting a 2nd goal. We were all over them in the first half. Torres was excellent. Highlight of the day was the John Terry song.

[anto1208]

It was even better as it was never penalty,he finally makes up for Sheff Utd last year.

:D:D

Yip i was thinking the same , Karma hey ??

[Roadend]

I prefer my conspiracy theory. Utd. have never lost a game when Styles has been the ref. The best result for Utd. yesterday, after losing, was a draw. Low and behold Styles awrds a farcical penalty. If only I could show you my shifty accusiing eyes after dreaming that one up.

[mypost]

It was even better as it was never penalty,he finally makes up for Sheff Utd last year.

:o

Hate to bring up this whole chestnut again, but anyway we should clarify that:

a) Two alleged "wrongs" don't make a right in football, and
b) The incident you refer to, unlike yesterday, was actually a genuine penalty.

That peno decision yesterday was as bad, if not worse, than the Carvalho "header" in front of the Kop, a decision we didn't get that cost us the match in 2005.

Wonder how long it will take for the decision yesterday to even itself out?? Probably sometime when we're 3 or 4-0 up, when we don't need it. :rolleyes:

[anto1208]

:o

Hate to bring up this whole chestnut again, but anyway we should clarify that:

a) Two alleged "wrongs" don't make a right in football, and
b) The incident you refer to, unlike yesterday, was actually a genuine penalty.

:rolleyes:

B) He is talking about the time Gerrard Dived but got the penalty because of "intent" worse than yesterdays at least there was contact yesterday :p Every single arguement ye came up with to defend Gerrard then can now be turned around and used to defend that penalty .

It was very similar to the free kick Gerrard got V villa , Where he lost the ball and jumped into a player to win a free. Very soft free kick / very soft Peno but there you go what goes around comes around .

[beautifulrock]

A great sporting moment about time you got one given against you. But my favourite part of yesterday was Alan Green on radio 5 he was spitting mad proper losing it i am just about to write a letter to the BBC asking them to put a neutral commentator on for Liverpool games. Hopefully you can expect him to get the sack later today or tomorrow. :p

why would you want him sacked, he is the best commentator on the BBC IMHO.

[4tothefloor]

Highlight of the day was the John Terry song.
What are the words to the John Terry song?

[reder]

What are the words to the John Terry song?

I'll PM you. I aint posting it.

[mypost]

B) He is talking about the time Gerrard Dived but got the penalty because of "intent" worse than yesterdays at least there was contact yesterday :p Every single arguement ye came up with to defend Gerrard then can now be turned around and used to defend that penalty.

We know what he's talking about. I said it was a penalty then, and I say it was a penalty now. In yesterday's game, the contact was made by the attacking player, who didn't appeal for a penalty.


It was very similar to the free kick Gerrard got V villa , Where he lost the ball and jumped into a player to win a free.

Nothing to do with the fact that he was actually bodychecked in order for him to lose the ball, and therefore get a free-kick, of course. :rolleyes:


Very soft free kick / very soft Peno but there you go what goes around comes around .

As I say, it doesn't come around, nor go around. It's the ref's job to know what a foul is/isn't in the penalty area. Period.

[superfrank]

why would you want him sacked, he is the best commentator on the BBC IMHO.
Second.

if these journos/commentators can't contain their allegiances then they ought to be stopped from doing matches involving their clubs. If yiou heard him yesterday there isa no way that you would think he was a decent commentator, he forgot about the match and just ranted and raved.
Didn't listen to the match yesterday but if you're talking about Green's anti-Fergucon bias, that's well known. Anything else, I haven't heard him come out with before. What was he saying?

[beautifulrock]

Just spotted this hd to laugh. I think somebody thinks the same as me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Green_%28broadcaster%29

if these journos/commentators can't contain their allegiances then they ought to be stopped from doing matches involving their clubs. If yiou heard him yesterday there isa no way that you would think he was a decent commentator, he forgot about the match and just ranted and raved.

Anyway hopefully today or tomorrow he will get the boot ;)

wow someone on Wikipedia has the same opinion as you that is amazing :confused:,

My opinion that he is the best presenter on BBC radio still stands regardless of you and your little laughs.

[anto1208]

We know what he's talking about. I said it was a penalty then, and I say it was a penalty now. In yesterday's game, the contact was made by the attacking player, who didn't appeal for a penalty.

Nothing to do with the fact that he was actually bodychecked in order for him to lose the ball, and therefore get a free-kick, of course. :rolleyes:

As I say, it doesn't come around, nor go around. It's the ref's job to know what a foul is/isn't in the penalty area. Period.

Ya ya your making it up now i forgot the "pool" fans have different rules

Gerrard jumps into a player its a body check , if a chelsea player runs into Finnan its the chelsea players fault !!

Come on you cant have it both ways

[mypost]

I think Rocket has a point you tune in sometimes to listen to a match that Liverpool are playing and Green is doing it and you are more or less listening to Radio Liverpool FC.

Which is a load of blx. He has no point as AG is as capable of saying how terrible we are, on air, in equal measure.

If you want a commentator with LFC bias, tune into one of our games with one of our own, Alan Parry, commentating on Sky.

Another thing, who listens to radio commentaries anymore, anyway?? :confused:


if a chelsea player runs into Finnan its the chelsea players fault !!

:D

Fyi, Styles has now been temporarily suspended from Premier League games by his boss, Keith Hackett. Wonder why?? :confused:

[anto1208]

Which is a load of blx. He has no point as AG is as capable of saying how terrible we are, on air, in equal measure.

If you want a commentator with LFC bias, tune into one of our games with one of our own, Alan Parry, commentating on Sky.

Another thing, who listens to radio commentaries anymore, anyway?? :confused:



:D

Fyi, Styles has now been temporarily suspended from Premier League games by his boss, Keith Hackett. Wonder why?? :confused:

For giving essien two yellows yet not sending him off id say

[Roadend]

Gerrard jumps into a player its a body check , if a chelsea player runs into Finnan its the chelsea players fault !!

Come on you cant have it both ways

So You are saying Petrov was bodychecking i.e intentionally comitting a foul, Finnan was turning to follow the ball and Malouda jumped into him, yet you see a comparison in the two incidents????

[anto1208]

VDM pleads for one more chance , he was susspended for the spurs and reading games and finned for missing training last sunday . he is now pleading with moyes for one more chance says he is under pressure because of his daughter being sick .

There is only so much moyes can let him away with with out other players looking on thinking they can do what they want but with his kid so sick it seems harsh to sack him , but i cant see him getting back into the team to get a run of 5 or 6 games with out an injury or suspension or another incident .


From eatsleep:

The chances are that his pleas may fall on deaf ears as David Moyes considers his options with the winger, who has never really settled at the club and who missed training last week.

Missing training was just the latest in a line of misdemeanors since arriving at the club two summers ago from Inter Milan.

He now wants one more chance to show what he can do and his friend and solicitor Tony Nelson says he has been under tremendous pressure due to the fact his five month old daughter is poorly and has been in Alder Hey hospital since birth.

He told the Sun: "He bitterly regrets what has happened Andy and his partner visit Dolce every day and it has placed a huge strain on them.

"The baby was in the neonatal ward until June and is still permanently on a ward. Andy pleads for the forgiveness of the manager and the fans."

[anto1208]

So You are saying Petrov was bodychecking i.e intentionally comitting a foul, Finnan was turning to follow the ball and Malouda jumped into him, yet you see a comparison in the two incidents????

No im not mypost is saying that .

[superfrank]

How often do you listen to Alan Green?

In every match I known him to commentate, and a lot of them didn't involve Liverpool, he goes on about bad refereeing, players diving around the place and feigning injury.

Admittedly, I didn't hear yesterday's match but I have heard him commentate on Liverpool matches before and his carry on has been the same as it is in non-Liverpool games.

[superfrank]

Anyway he should be taken off Liverpool games or ideally sacked ! :)

If i started a petition could you all sign in below and well get one more of them off the radio. ;)
No way. Legendary commentator. He speaks his mind. Would you rather Johnathan "Robot Wars" Pearce?

[beautifulrock]

Do you really want me to answer that ? :)

So Roguey, you want to start a petition to get someone who annoys you of the BBC, not a bad idea. I wonder can you do that on other type of forums with people who annoy :p

[beautifulrock]

[QUOTE=Rogue Trader;750529]Is it Alan Green ? :) I don't want him kicked off the BBC Beautiful ! what i want is to go the whole hog on Green and turn him into a real life Louis Winthorpe III (Maybe the Beeb could make it into a reality series) /QUOTE]

:D it might work I guess although not convinced. For all his faults I like him and I know you will admit (eventually) the he is better than Jonathon Pearce :eek:

[mypost]

So the donkey Styles got suspended for 1 match, for making "an error". If I mark 7 numbers instead of 6 on a lotto ticket, I make an error too. Only yesterday, we're playing for big money and prizes, and it's unacceptable to make massive "errors".

The proper punishment of course, would be to overturn the result, hand us the 3 points, rescind Jamie Carragher's booking for his justified protests, and make an example of Styles by banning him for 5 matches. :)

Obviously he didn't earn his UEFA badge. He came from the "Collect 6 crisp packets and become a ref" school instead. :rolleyes:

[KildareFan]

So the donkey Styles got suspended for 1 match, for making "an error". If I mark 7 numbers instead of 6 on a lotto ticket, I make an error too. Only yesterday, we're playing for big money and prizes, and it's unacceptable to make massive "errors".

The proper punishment of course, would be to overturn the result, hand us the 3 points, rescind Jamie Carragher's booking for his justified protests, and make an example of Styles by banning him for 5 matches. :)

Obviously he didn't earn his UEFA badge. He came from the "Collect 6 crisp packets and become a ref" school instead. :rolleyes:

The ref apologised and was banned for a week which is more than happens to most clubs when a ref makes a mistake but God forbid anybody wrongs liverpool!!! Get over it, it's one bad decision, I know Liverpool aren't used to these things going against them but most clubs have been putting up with it for years.