Everton and Liverpool discussion [Archive] - Page 13

4tothefloor

10/08/2005, 5:53 PM

they did well this is the 3rd best team in spain and a team that recently beat bara 3 nil so to loose 2-1 is pretty good for there first time in the champs league . there is allways next years hope fully we will get an easier draw next time
I hope now anto that you appreciate the magnitude of Liverpool's achievement last season in winning the competition. You think you have done well by losing only 2-1 to the third best team in Spain, Liverpool beat the best of the best last season. Just proves what I have been saying all along - Liverpool operate on a different level to Everton, a class apart. You are second fiddle and always will be :D . Also shows up your logic that Everton could win the CL this year, just because you finished above us in the prem and we won the CL, as ridiculous in the extreme ;)

mypost

11/08/2005, 5:43 AM

QUOTE]the qualifiers are only 2 games anyway because unlike liverpool we qualified using the actual rules not the one s that were changed to allow liverpool in .hence only playing 2 games not 6

You're lucky it was only 2 games. Everton would damage the quality of the competition if they made the group stages, with their "kick lumps out of the opposition, and fire the ball up to Big Dunc" tactics. :D Everton are not tactically or physically competent to play UEFA Cup football, never mind CL football. A pub side playing primitive football is fine against Bolton and Wigan, but you need a bit more tactical nous when playing against any half-decent European side.

Everton should not be in the competition. They're there by default. They are also the first English side to lose a CL qualifier at home. Says it all really.

declan hide

11/08/2005, 9:41 AM

[QUOTE=anto1208

but it will be hard for everton because they will have to actually win games no free goals , dodgy off side's ,or changing of the rules for us like liverpool get .[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

sounds like the argument of a 10 year old. off the top of my head....liverpool lost in monaco...clear handball by saviola...so without getting into your stupid point theres one example where it didnt go all liverpools way.

everton are in the champs league cos the finished 4th. fair play. they overachieved. liverpool - the champions league winners (and winners of hearts worldwide, including i might add man u and everton fans) were asked to play from the first round - didnt complain and got on with the job. theres class above alone.

anto1208

11/08/2005, 10:02 AM

I hope now anto that you appreciate the magnitude of Liverpool's achievement last season in winning the competition. You think you have done well by losing only 2-1 to the third best team in Spain, Liverpool beat the best of the best last season. Just proves what I have been saying all along - Liverpool operate on a different level to Everton, a class apart. You are second fiddle and always will be :D . Also shows up your logic that Everton could win the CL this year, just because you finished above us in the prem and we won the CL, as ridiculous in the extreme ;)

yeah and ive allways said they did really well and you dont win the comp with out deserving it , that will allways be the difference , everton fans can admit that but liverpool fans still wont give everton any credit even though they finished 4th and beat liverpools previous points total of 60 points to get there .

they could win it so could utd so could chelsea so could liverpool again , i never said they will win it but its a possibility , who would have thought liverpool would haev won it no one not even liverpool fans

anto1208

11/08/2005, 10:06 AM

You're lucky it was only 2 games. Everton would damage the quality of the competition if they made the group stages, with their "kick lumps out of the opposition, and fire the ball up to Big Dunc" tactics. :D Everton are not tactically or physically competent to play UEFA Cup football, never mind CL football. A pub side playing primitive football is fine against Bolton and Wigan, but you need a bit more tactical nous when playing against any half-decent European side.

Everton should not be in the competition. They're there by default. They are also the first English side to lose a CL qualifier at home. Says it all really.

again you are a fool . liverpool played way more long balls than everton but dont let facts get in the way of your points !

everton fans dont hate the liverpool team just moron fans like you that dont have a clue what your on about , got there by default !we used the rules we finished in forth ,god your a ****

Poor Student

11/08/2005, 11:04 AM

again you are a fool . liverpool played way more long balls than everton but dont let facts get in the way of your points !

everton fans dont hate the liverpool team just moron fans like you that dont have a clue what your on about , got there by default !we used the rules we finished in forth ,god your a ****

Anto, cool it off now, I'm warning you. Stick to the points and not the poster.

Mypost, you too, stop talking antagonistic rubbish. Everton qualified via the convential means and don't forget your side could not manage to finish above them. Also keep in mind they were unseeded and Villareal is as tough a draw an English side has ever gotten in CL qualifiers.

anto1208

11/08/2005, 12:38 PM

Anto, cool it off now, I'm warning you. Stick to the points and not the poster.

Mypost, you too, stop talking antagonistic rubbish. Everton qualified via the convential means and don't forget your side could not manage to finish above them. Also keep in mind they were unseeded and Villareal is as tough a draw an English side has ever gotten in CL qualifiers.

sorry he just gets my goat up .

Aldini98

11/08/2005, 4:18 PM

sorry he just gets my goat up .

Everton as good as out of Europe, Pool aren't, Moyesyside my swiss !!!!!!!!

mypost

12/08/2005, 5:04 AM

Mypost, stop talking antagonistic rubbish. Everton qualified via the convential means and don't forget your side could not manage to finish above them. Also keep in mind they were unseeded and Villareal is as tough a draw an English side has ever gotten in CL qualifiers.

Did Everton qualify for the CL qualifiers? In December, they were 2nd, then slipped to third, then to 4th. In the second half of the season, Everton got 20 points. They were walloped for 7 at Arsenal. They didn't qualify, but were instead handed 4th spot by the fact that other teams directly behind them didn't win enough games. Their players are poor, their "tactics" are primitive. They are the only English team that the rest of Europe want to play against this season. They are the cinderella side of the competition, and as it's the top table of club football, the Champions League should not have cinderella teams, and pub sides playing in it "just to be there". Neutrals want to watch the best teams in the competiton, and Everton are not one of those teams.

We finished 4th the season before, and you know what we did? We sacked the boss. That's what we think of the value of finishing 4th!!

anto1208

12/08/2005, 8:26 AM

yea thats nearly a full season in the top 4 a position liverpool werent good enough to get into all season at all .

a cinderella story !! what do you call liverpool one of the weekest teams in the comp winning it , not since greece have we seen such an upset .

since ye value finishing 4th so lowly then how do ye feel about 5th !!

read your post again slips to 4th at least we got into a position that aloud us to slip down to fourth , ye barely got up into 5th place .how many millions did ye have to spend to compete with us ??

anto1208

12/08/2005, 8:28 AM

Everton as good as out of Europe, Pool aren't, Moyesyside my swiss !!!!!!!!

still go into the uefa cup . last time i checked that in europe too .

simple facts lads liverpool set the bar at 60 points to get 4th spot , so we went out and got 61 .

give credit where credit is due

papa-j

12/08/2005, 9:06 AM

anto1208

12/08/2005, 9:31 AM

in fairness Everton had a season beyond their expectations last year. The trick is to come close to repeating that. I cant see it happening.
On the other hand the Reds have consistantly been in the CL places over the
past 5 years which culminated in winning the thing. Add the Uefa cup to that
& we have a recent pedigree europe(not to mention the past) You talk about giving credit to Everton. How about recognising that Liverpool fully deserved
to be crowned champions of Europe by beating 'Juve, Chelsea & Milan possibly
the best 3 teams in Europe. Thats not luck, thats pedigree, thats Liverpool FC
YNWA!!!!!!

well if you read a few posts up you will see me admit that they did do well to win it and that you dont win the comp with out deserving it .

its true everton had a season beyond all expectations but so did liverpool , this time last year if you had said everton would be in 4th and liverpool would win the champs league you would have been laughed out of the place .

ill admit they deserved to beat milan , but not chelsea ( didnt score !!) nor juve ( 2 dodgy calls from the ref penalty and dissaloud a perfectly good goal ) , in the same way everton didnt deserve to beat utd but we did .the difference is you dont have everton fans coming out with rubbish that we are better than utd in the same way liverpool fans think they are the best in europe .

declan hide

12/08/2005, 9:46 AM

anto

stop wasting so much time on the net, defending and attacking teams that care little for you and go out and actually go see your local team, limerick.

thanking you in advance.

papa-j

12/08/2005, 9:47 AM

well if you read a few posts up you will see me admit that they did do well to win it and that you dont win the comp with out deserving it .

its true everton had a season beyond all expectations but so did liverpool , this time last year if you had said everton would be in 4th and liverpool would win the champs league you would have been laughed out of the place .

ill admit they deserved to beat milan , but not chelsea ( didnt score !!) nor juve ( 2 dodgy calls from the ref penalty and dissaloud a perfectly good goal ) , in the same way everton didnt deserve to beat utd but we did .the difference is you dont have everton fans coming out with rubbish that we are better than utd in the same way liverpool fans think they are the best in europe .

True, nobdy could have predicted that. We fully deserved to beat 'Juve, ok Chelsea was a close call but did either Juve or Chelsea deserve to beat Liverpool? Anyway I think the whole world bar Everton & a few manure die hards were delighted we put one over arrogant chelski & Moroniho. We were not the best squad on paper in Europe last year in fact we weren't even close but the fact is despite being written off time & time again we went out & got the results. We had the best team performances in Europe. Any realistic fan knows we are not the best team(on paper) but that made it all the sweeter.

anto1208

12/08/2005, 10:23 AM

We were not the best squad on paper in Europe last year in fact we weren't even close but the fact is despite being written off time & time again we went out & got the results. We had the best team performances in Europe. Any realistic fan knows we are not the best team(on paper) but that made it all the sweeter.

you are the first liverpool fan ive met or spoken to that seems to actually understand the game , fair play to you if only there were more like you and less like my post.

i actually think i could have a footy conversation with you with out you loosing the head and saying " champions of europe " like most other have to resort to .

anto1208

12/08/2005, 10:29 AM

anto

stop wasting so much time on the net, defending and attacking teams that care little for you and go out and actually go see your local team, limerick.

thanking you in advance.

dont thank me i wont be there after 15 years of supporting them going to all home and most away games , ive given up .

plus ive just shelled out 650 euro for my season ticket , so paying a tenner into see limerick isnt top of my to do list

Poor Student

12/08/2005, 11:46 AM

anto

stop wasting so much time on the net, defending and attacking teams that care little for you and go out and actually go see your local team, limerick.

thanking you in advance.

Declan, no trolling in this forum. People have the right to support or not support who they like.

anto1208

12/08/2005, 12:03 PM

Declan, no trolling in this forum. People have the right to support or not support who they like.

AS long as its not the SPL as that has been banned apparently , allthough i dont know what the slovacian premier league has ever done :D

sligoman

12/08/2005, 12:08 PM

I haven't been following this thread, but how is it still going? This is about last season and the new league is about to start? WTF? Close this thread :D

anto1208

12/08/2005, 12:51 PM

I haven't been following this thread, but how is it still going? This is about last season and the new league is about to start? WTF? Close this thread :D

no its not about last season its about the present state of football on merseyside , which is updated every day

papa-j

12/08/2005, 1:32 PM

no its not about last season its about the present state of football on merseyside , which is updated every day

well said, even for a bluenose.....joking. How do you fancy your chances v the scum 2moro? :D

anto1208

12/08/2005, 5:05 PM

well said, even for a bluenose.....joking. How do you fancy your chances v the scum 2moro? :D

it all depends on the formation they go with , this one up front nonsence is nt working it hasnt since xmas , i dont know why moyes cant see this .
its a negative tactic right from kick off , it puts our defence under way too much presure ,whcih is fine against west brom and the likes but not against utd , who will punich you if given enough chances to do so .

it was fine when bent was our only striker and weir and stubbs lacked pace a holding midfielder was needed but now with yobo and klodrop in defence we have two very fast very good and confident defenders so the holding midfielder isnt needed ,

with beattie we have a striker with one of the best shots in the prem , but is wasted trying to take down balls and lay off passes , while bent has a fantastic first touch and short passing game but couldnt finish his dinner . so it seems silly not to play the two of them and between them make up at least one decent striker .

4tothefloor

12/08/2005, 8:06 PM

Poor Student

12/08/2005, 8:17 PM

I am getting the feeling this thread has gone stale and is just going round and round and descending into bickering. What's the general consensus? Should I close it?

mypost

13/08/2005, 5:05 AM

I agree, I think this thread should be closed now as it is a thread about last season. We're still 'discussing' the CL win and Everton finishing 4th, even though the new season kicks-off tomorrow! A very enjoyable thread, but I think it's run its course.

Since when was there a time limit on when we can post on threads? :confused:

LFC fans will still be discussing and gloating over our CL win for decades, closing a thread won't stop it. :D

This thread is not about a particular season, but about the fortunes of Liverpool and Everton. It's good natured banter, not a spiteful flame war.

Leave the thread open, as the posts will pick up in quality, when the English season re-commences, when we can discuss new events.

sligoman

13/08/2005, 1:10 PM

it all depends on the formation they go with , this one up front nonsence is nt working it hasnt since xmas , i dont know why moyes cant see this .
its a negative tactic right from kick off , it puts our defence under way too much presure ,whcih is fine against west brom and the likes but not against utd , who will punich you if given enough chances to do so .

it was fine when bent was our only striker and weir and stubbs lacked pace a holding midfielder was needed but now with yobo and klodrop in defence we have two very fast very good and confident defenders so the holding midfielder isnt needed ,

with beattie we have a striker with one of the best shots in the prem , but is wasted trying to take down balls and lay off passes , while bent has a fantastic first touch and short passing game but couldnt finish his dinner . so it seems silly not to play the two of them and between them make up at least one decent striker .Not going to good so far anto:p. 2-0 to United!

ciaran76

13/08/2005, 1:13 PM

Not going to good so far anto:p. 2-0 to United!

Everton lost 4-1 last season on the opening day so i wouldn't look too deep into that ;)

sligoman

13/08/2005, 1:39 PM

And it's over, 2-0 to United final score-:)

anto1208

15/08/2005, 10:00 AM

And it's over, 2-0 to United final score-:)

and liverpool finished off boro nicely ............... oh no wait they stumbled and stalled in the prem yet again !!

but hey look at the league table it the first time liverpool have been above everton in 11 months !! :D :D

.

as for closing the thread no way , its going to get moving again now and as has been said none of it is bad natured , the new season is underway so the talk of last year will stop now .

if you cant talk about the home of football what can you talk about ?

chelsea playing fantasy football or to utd fans about businnes etics ?? :D

declan hide

16/08/2005, 9:48 AM

anto1208

16/08/2005, 12:18 PM

[QUOTE=anto1208]

but now with yobo and klodrop in defence we have two very fast very good and confident defenders QUOTE]

:D :D :D

yobo should be a playmaker after that pass to rooney. did he forget he left everton?

as for klodrop (surely not the correct spelling?) isnt he ouit for 6 weeks or so?

to define the difference between liverpool and everton.

everton fans claim 1-0 win over pool at goodison was best moment of last season.

liverpool fans know champs league win was our best moment.

same difference? :D

spelling SPELLING !!!! its not school you know what i ment just get on with it . :D KROLDRUP happy now

last season talk is over stop living in the past , it a brand new season for ye to try and compete for 4th because being realistic thats as high as ye will get if ye have an incredible season which looking at ye on sat i dont think he will .

4tothefloor

16/08/2005, 6:00 PM

which looking at ye on sat i dont think he will .
Liverpool were superb on saturday, and if we play like that in every away game and show the same determination and dominance in every game, we're laughing. We do need to sign Michael Owen though, plus I'd prefer to see Morientes sold instead of Baros. We are selling a forward who is established and suited to the English game and keeping one who has barely moved a limb since he signed for us. Doesn't make sense to me, but........in Rafa we trust :D

anto1208

17/08/2005, 8:16 AM

no way morientes is a fantastic striker , but id also keep baros if i was ye knowing ye're injury list ye will need him .

its great liverpool bussiness sell aplayer for 8 mill buy him back a year later for 12 , he doesnt have a clue what he is doing :rolleyes:

4tothefloor

19/08/2005, 12:00 AM

he doesnt have a clue what he is doing :rolleyes:

A bit like releasing Pistone, and then signing him again in panic cos you could get nobody else? ;) :p

mypost

19/08/2005, 4:14 AM

We do need to sign Michael Owen though, plus I'd prefer to see Morientes sold instead of Baros.

I think Rafa's reluctance to consider buying Michael Owen is more proof, if it was needed, that he decided to sell the player last year, instead of the club's spin that Owen wanted to leave. For some reason, Rafa would prefer to take a chance by signing Peter Crouch, rather than re-sign a Liverpool legend with a proven goalscoring record. :(

We are selling a forward who is established and suited to the English game and keeping one who has barely moved a limb since he signed for us.

Baros has been here for nearly 5 years, Morientes for only 8 months, sometimes unavailable due to injury/ineligibility. Of course he's barely moved a limb. The bloke was unfit when he signed, and is still adapting to English football. Baros had similiar problems when he signed. Give Mori a chance before you rush to judgement, will ye? :rolleyes:

anto1208

19/08/2005, 8:13 AM

A bit like releasing Pistone, and then signing him again in panic cos you could get nobody else? ;) :p

wrong again ! he was offered a contract that moyes thought he was worth he chose to look for a better deal he didnt get it so he took the deal at everton , what you are saying might hold some water if he had re signed on august 31st not the start of july with 2 months to keep looking !

serious question are ye starting to wonder about rafa last summer he had cisse owen and baros , now there is talks of him selling cisse and baros to buy owen !! any one else think thats a bit weird .
he reminds me of houlier he played heskey on the right wing , cisse is been pushed out there now . houl bought a load of french players rafa is buying a spanish armada . they are good players but so was houliers frst buys (risse haman etc)

i can see a patern developing

Dotsy

19/08/2005, 9:42 AM

I don't know whether Rafa wanted to sell Owen or Owen wanted to leave. Equally I am not sure he really doesn't want him back or if this is just spin to try to get the best deal from Real.

Either way IMO it will be a good move to sign him or take him back on loan.

Both Baros and Cisse were Houllier's signings so it is no bad reflcetion on Rafa if he wants to sell them. I won't lose any sleep over Baros leaving. He has failed to live up to expectations and hasn't scored enough goals to justify keeping him. I am not all that impressed with Cisse either. I know he had an horrendous season last year due to injury but any time I have seen him he has lacked a half decent first touch and seems to rely on putting the head down,running with the ball and shooting regardless of whether anyone else is in a better position.

Owen is head and shouldres above both of them. Owen was sold for �8m plus Nunez and the reports I read say that Real are now looking for �10M. Does anyone know if Celta Vigo paid a fee for Nunez. Managers make mistakes in tehe transfer market all the time. If Rafa did make one by wanting to sell Owen I will not have a problem if he effectively admits this by taking him back.

jockser

19/08/2005, 5:36 PM

youre all wrong. Owen decide to leave Anfield in february and was in talks with madrid. Deal was done long before Rafa arrived....Rafa had no choice in wheter owen stayed or not

4tothefloor

19/08/2005, 8:16 PM

Baros has been here for nearly 5 years, Morientes for only 8 months, sometimes unavailable due to injury/ineligibility. Of course he's barely moved a limb. The bloke was unfit when he signed, and is still adapting to English football. Baros had similiar problems when he signed. Give Mori a chance before you rush to judgement, will ye? :rolleyes:
Don't know about you, but it doesn't take me 12 months to decide if a player is doing the business or not. He is not suited to the English game. He is off the pace. First he was "unfit", now he is "adapting" to the premiership. I can see him doing very well for us in the CL as the pace of it suits him perfectly - slower, more time on the ball. Morientes strong point is his link play, his ability to give and go, and his heading. He needs to toughen up, get more aggressive and generally be more lively. If he hasn't realised this by now he might as well forget about it. Benitez has been making noises at him so he needs to buck up. My fear is that he won't and we'll end up using Crouch too much, the major fear being long ball.I still have confidence in Morientes, as I believe the service to him hasn't been that great so far, but equally I wouldn't be surprised if he was sold.

Benitez in the press conference today said the priority is a centre back. No mention of a right-midfielder which is bad news, as we badly need one. Cisse just won't do there. I believe we will sign Owen right at the death, it's a game of chess at the moment to get the price down.

mypost

21/08/2005, 6:55 AM

Don't know about you, but it doesn't take me 12 months to decide if a player is doing the business or not. He is not suited to the English game. He is off the pace. First he was "unfit", now he is "adapting" to the premiership. I can see him doing very well for us in the CL as the pace of it suits him perfectly - slower, more time on the ball. Morientes needs to toughen up, get more aggressive and generally be more lively.

I take it, that you've never learned the meaning of the word, "patience", have you?? :rolleyes:

Baros took 2 years to adapt to English football, played well for about a season, then sulked after he was left out of the League Cup Final, and has nosedived since. Morientes couldn't do much when he first came here only 7 months ago. Since then, he has been unfit, injured, ineligible for CL participation, and gone on a 2 month summer break. It takes some foreign players ages to adapt to a new lifestyle, new country, and a football style that was hitherto alien to him, and I don't feel he has had enough time so far to show us what he can do. He has scored 2 goals already this season, and you want him sold? How can we have a settled team/squad, if we listen to attitudes like that. ("Right, you're a striker for us, we know you're unfit/ineligible/injured, but you must suddenly score 20+ goals in 10 games now, or you'll have to fk off!!"). :eek: :mad: He'll get his fair share of goals over time...as long as give him 5 minutes!! :rolleyes:

I still have confidence in Morientes, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was sold.

Contradiction!

In any case, even Benitez wouldn't be that daft to consider selling him at the moment. He's here for the foreseeable future.

I believe we will sign Owen right at the death, it's a game of chess at the moment to get the price down.

There's no way the price will come down. If he really wanted Owen to stay last season, he would have snapped him up from Real at the first opportunity. The fact that he hasn't, tells it's own story. :(

On the plus side, we won comfortably against Sunderland, but the team's performance was very poor. The passing was terrible throughout the game, Cisse missed 3 sitters, and if we play like that when Ushi-ted come calling in 4 weeks time, we'll lose to them at home yet again.

4tothefloor

21/08/2005, 11:49 PM

I take it, that you've never learned the meaning of the word, "patience", have you??

Baros took 2 years to adapt to English football, played well for about a season, then sulked after he was left out of the League Cup Final, and has nosedived since. Morientes couldn't do much when he first came here only 7 months ago. Since then, he has been unfit, injured, ineligible for CL participation, and gone on a 2 month summer break. It takes some foreign players ages to adapt to a new lifestyle, new country, and a football style that was hitherto alien to him, and I don't feel he has had enough time so far to show us what he can do. He has scored 2 goals already this season, and you want him sold? How can we have a settled team/squad, if we listen to attitudes like that. ("Right, you're a striker for us, we know you're unfit/ineligible/injured, but you must suddenly score 20+ goals in 10 games now, or you'll have to fk off!!"). He'll get his fair share of goals over time...as long as give him 5 minutes!! :rolleyes:

Contradiction!

In any case, even Benitez wouldn't be that daft to consider selling him at the moment. He's here for the foreseeable future.

There's no way the price will come down. If he really wanted Owen to stay last season, he would have snapped him up from Real at the first opportunity. The fact that he hasn't, tells it's own story. :(

On the plus side, we won comfortably against Sunderland, but the team's performance was very poor. The passing was terrible throughout the game, Cisse missed 3 sitters, and if we play like that when Ushi-ted come calling in 4 weeks time, we'll lose to them at home yet again.

Well you seem to know it all so I'll take everything you say as gospel. Must be all those games you've gone to over the years :rolleyes:

Comparing him to Baros is ridiculous as Baros was signed as a raw youngster who had to spend the first 8 months getting fit and losing weight, before he even got near the subs bench. Morientes was bought as an experienced international striker, who simply isn't producing - another inept performance on Saturday. It's not just goals, which is what you seem to be basing your opinion on. It's his all round play and lack of presence and general effort up front that is the problem. He doesn't fight for the ball and gets easily knocked off of it. The lack of goals justs compounds things. He should know by now what is required, so he should be getting stuck in more. Instead he seems dead in himself, and there's nothing you can say to convince me otherwise because the facts and stats are there in black and white.

This 'adapting to the premiership' stuff is a load of rubbish. It's a lame excuse to mask mediocre performances. I don't recall Garcia and Alonso having problems adapting to the English game, and Garcia is way lighter than him. No problems either for Walter Pandiani at Birmingham.......strange. He's had from January until May last season, and a full pre-season behind him this season. Two goals yes, but both in CL (and if you read my post properly you'll see that I've said I can see him scoring goals in the CL). In the Premiership he is not producing, simple as that, which is why Crouch was bought. He's in trouble when Crouch is fit again. And at least Cisse is getting into positions to miss chances....

I hope Morientes scores a hat-trick in his next premiership game because I would love to see the Morientes of Monaco at Liverpool. Unfortunately at the moment we are seeing the Morientes of Real Madrid B.

mypost

22/08/2005, 4:27 AM

Morientes - another inept performance on Saturday.

He wasn't the only one. There were several others.

It's not just goals, which is what you seem to be basing your opinion on. It's his all round play and lack of presence and general effort up front that is the problem. He doesn't fight for the ball and gets easily knocked off of it. The lack of goals justs compounds things.

Strikers are bought to score goals, not defend, run the midfield, play pretty football, but score goals. And overall, he scores his fair share of goals. That's what he will be judged on. What do you want? Emile Heskey?? Plenty of effort, but not enough goals, so off he went.

This 'adapting to the premiership' stuff is a load of rubbish. It's a lame excuse to mask mediocre performances. I don't recall Garcia having problems adapting to the English game, and Garcia is way lighter than him.

Garcia admitted himself, that he struggled with the English style of football, and game last winter, when the pitches got worse. Josemi, Nunez, and Pellegrino, all brought from Spain, all failed to adapt. Still rubbish?? :rolleyes:

He's had from January until May last season, and a full pre-season behind him this season.

And like I said before, he has been injured/ineligible/unfit for most of that time. The team have only scored one league goal so far this season, it won't be long before Mori scores himself.

4tothefloor

23/08/2005, 7:06 PM

And overall, he scores his fair share of goals. That's what he will be judged on. What do you want? Emile Heskey?? Plenty of effort, but not enough goals, so off he went.
Where are these goals? Goals in behind-closed-door friendlies don't count....

Garcia admitted himself, that he struggled with the English style of football, and game last winter, when the pitches got worse. Josemi, Nunez, and Pellegrino, all brought from Spain, all failed to adapt. Still rubbish?? :rolleyes:
Garcia may have struggled in general play, but he still scored goals and did the business. Josemi, Nunez and Pellegrino are rubbish so what's the point comparing them with Morientes? Nunez and Pellegrino were never long term signings, they were signed to get us through last season because we couldn't afford more expensive players. Pellegrino was only on a 6 month contract. Nunez on a short term deal, who was signed on a free anyway. Josemi is simply a squad player, nothing more. That comparison is worse than your Baros/Morientes one above!

A player should be judged on hard facts, stats and what he has actually done, not what he can/could do, or what he has done at previous clubs in other leagues. That is why both Cisse and Morientes could be sold just as easily as Baros was - because they are not delivering. Benitez is on about Kuyt again, a player similar in build to Crouch. Owen is also being mentioned. He is thinking about other strikers, which really tells you all you need to know about how happy he is with his current lot.......

mypost

24/08/2005, 5:13 AM

Where are these goals?

The same place where Cisse's, Crouch's, and Garcia's are. Morientes has scored more than all of them so far this season, but obviously it hasn't satisfy some people. :rolleyes:

Josemi, Nunez and Pellegrino are rubbish so what's the point comparing them with Morientes?

Spaniards attempting to adapt to the Premiership.

That comparison is worse than your Baros/Morientes one above!

I am not making comparisons between the two. I merely analysed their records at the club, following your comparison of their records in a recent post.

Benitez is on about Kuyt again, a player similar in build to Crouch. Owen is also being mentioned. He is thinking about other strikers

Beni wants players in other positions. He says he has enough in 5 strikers. Or does he? He said the same this time last year, when we had 4 strikers available. 2 months later, we had only 1 striker available. He doesn't want Owen, and never did since he came to the club. He didn't want him then, and he doesn't want him now. On the evidence of the last 3 games, it's clear we do need him. If Benitez saw the light, swallowed his pride, and took him on board, we might just finish higher than 5th. :rolleyes:

4tothefloor

24/08/2005, 7:41 PM

The same place where Cisse's, Crouch's, and Garcia's are. Morientes has scored more than all of them so far this season, but obviously it hasn't satisfy some people. :rolleyes:
Oh so now we're only talking about this season, just to suit your weak argument. I have been talking about Morientes since the day he arrived. Again, read my post properly. BTW, Crouch has played 1 game, Garcia only a couple (he didn't feature in any of the earlier CL rounds, unlike Morientes, and only came on as a sub in both legs of the last round). And for your information, Cisse has double the goals Morientes has this season. What Liverpool are you watching? :rolleyes:

Spaniards attempting to adapt to the Premiership.
Squad players, but lets just pretend there's no difference.....

He doesn't want Owen, and never did since he came to the club. He didn't want him then, and he doesn't want him now. On the evidence of the last 3 games, it's clear we do need him. If Benitez saw the light, swallowed his pride, and took him on board, we might just finish higher than 5th.
Why do you think he doesn't want Owen? Have you any idea or any real knowledge at all of what Benitez did at Valencia? It's nothing personal. It's as simple as this. The type of player that Owen is does not suit the system that Benitez ultimately wants to play. If you look at his team, personnel and tactics at Valencia, you would understand this. Cisse is the same, Benitez has no real use for him. He favours a target man, with his wide men coming in to support - similar to what Chelsea use. Owen does not fit into this style. If Benitez had his way, his three strikers would be Crouch, Morientes and Kuyt. And from then on, he'd be spending his money on quality wide men. That you can't see what he is trying to build at the moment means you must be blind to tactics.

-----------------------Reina------------------------

Finnan--------Carragher------Hyypia---------Warnock

-----------------------Sissoko/Hamann---------------
---------------Alonso--------------------------------

Stelios??--------------Gerrard---------------Riise/Zenden

-------------------Crouch/Morientes------------------

That is what Benitez is striving to create. Obviously Stelios would be a stop gap signing (just like Nunez and Pellegrino were ;) ). Rafa would be hoping to spend his cash on the likes of Jaoquin in that position in the next few years. Now, where does Michael Owen go, on the bench? Or are you going to tell me he can play as a target man? I'd love Owen at the club, but he is going to be an expensive sub because Benitez aint going to change his tried and tested system, and philosophy, just for Michael Owen :rolleyes: Even if we do sign him, he will not start every week, especially away from home. Benitez isn't prepared to pay more than �8m, and he's dead right, because it would be for a player that he would regard as a luxury. It wouldn't surprise me if he signed, but equally don't be surprised if it's Kuyt and not Owen.

BTW: Morientes was shocking again last night, and even the analysts on TV3 and Sky Sports highlighted how off the pace he appeared. Did you see how easily he lost possession, was knocked off the ball, and how poor his passing was? That's my point, we are seeing the Morientes of Real Madrid B. Yes the whole team was poor, but Morientes was absolutly terrible.