Everton and Liverpool discussion

[Roadend]

and i can't understand why rafa took steve g off at a crucial part of the game
Because aside from being faster than Hibbert on one counter attack he did f**k all besides give the ball away and unbalance the team by wandering around whereever he wanted.

[drinkfeckarse]

Everton can feel aggrieved by some of Clattenburgs decisions, no doubt at all about Carragher pulling Lescott down although IMO Kuyt's was correct as I honestly felt it was over enthusiam on his part. There was no malice in it and although his studs were off the ground, they were not aimed at Neville. It was more his shins that would have collided with him.

Missed the game due to my own but going on the highlights I didn't feel Everton threatened too much. A "lucky" win maybe in the sense that a penalty should have been given at the end but overall I felt Liverpool controlled the tempo.

[KildareFan]

Everton can feel aggrieved by some of Clattenburgs decisions, no doubt at all about Carragher pulling Lescott down although IMO Kuyt's was correct as I honestly felt it was over enthusiam on his part. There was no malice in it and although his studs were off the ground, they were not aimed at Neville. It was more his shins that would have collided with him.

Missed the game due to my own but going on the highlights I didn't feel Everton threatened too much. A "lucky" win maybe in the sense that a penalty should have been given at the end but overall I felt Liverpool controlled the tempo.

1. when it was 11 v 11, everton were the better side without actually playing that well and in lescott, they had the best player on the pitch by some distance. Liverpool only came into the match and "controlled the tempo of the game" when everton lost a man although how you tell who controlled the tempo of the game from the highlights is surprising.

2. That Kuyt tackle is just not defendable. Whether or not, he made contact or was showing malice is not the point. How can a player, lunge at another from 4-5 yards away, waist high and not get a red card is beyond me. If Neville had stayed on the ground, he would have been snapped in two, would you have thought it should have been a red then?

3. It wasn't bad refereeing, it was biased refereeing, there is a difference. What was gerrard shaking the refs hand for when he was taken off? Carragher had his arms around him at one stage when he should have been getting a yellow for dissent. Clattenburg should have just stopped the charade and given a whistle each to gerrard and carragher and just be done with it.

4. Liverpool's manager is an utter utter classless c*** of the highest order. To even suggest that lescott dived is up there with Houllier saying that fowler was chewing grass. The worst thing about losing is that we let him off the hook from the abuse he would have got.

[mypost]

Missed the game due to my own but going on the highlights I didn't feel Everton threatened too much. A "lucky" win maybe in the sense that a penalty should have been given at the end but overall I felt Liverpool controlled the tempo.

And do you know if they would have scored it as well?? :confused: Amazing the amount of people who automatically think penalty = goal. :rolleyes: Carra was defiant in his after-match interview that it wasn't a pen, so I take his word. It's not like he handled the ball on the line, like other players. :rolleyes:

[anto1208]

The first 20 mins liverpool dominated i think the possesion % was in the 30's for everton at home !. after that it evened out with both teams being as bad as each other untill the own goal then everton relaxed and where pretty comfortable .

Then Hibbert f****ed up big time made a mess of it in midfield letting Gerrard through for a very soft penalty but hibbert shouldnt have let him in there in the first place , he went down easy instead of shooting but i cant say AJ would have done any different if it was him through, But what got me then was the ref was booking hibbert untill Gerrard had a word and it magically turned into a red card .Shamefull .

By the rules he had to go being last man and all but by the rules Kuyts had to go too for doing a two footed lunge which is also a straight red if neville hadnt jumped he could have broken his leg.

I didnt feel the first tackle on lescott was a peno but since he gave an even softer one to liverpool he should have given it .but the one in the last second was beyond the joke Lescott was dragged to the ground .

I felt a draw would have been fair but i was amazed at rafa coming out after the game and accusing lescott of diving :eek:. That man really is pathetic

still have to move on 4 games in 11 days now at least the red cards will force moyes to play the team the fans have wanted for the next 3 games jags at right back and no neville near the pitch

[drinkfeckarse]

And do you know if they would have scored it as well?? :confused: Amazing the amount of people who automatically think penalty = goal. :rolleyes: Carra was defiant in his after-match interview that it wasn't a pen, so I take his word. It's not like he handled the ball on the line, like other players. :rolleyes:


I'm well aware that it might not have been a goal and don't need your silly smilies to emphasise the point.

Also, "Carra was defiant"? I assume you mean adament but I'm a Liverpool supporter and I don't need to listen to what Carra says to form my own opinion. Most people would say it was a penalty IMO. Also as a defender myself, you are asking for trouble wrapping your ams around a player in the box. Carragher is hardly going going to say "yeah, definate penalty" is he??

So what if Neville handled the ball??? He got his punishment for it so is there any relevance to it.

[jockser]

Thought all the decisions by the ref were correct apart from evertons last second penalty claim. Should have been a penalty.
Carra got away with it, I suppose the saying that decisions even themselves out over a season is true after the chelsea penalty decision at Anfield and who better than the blue noses to even that out against eh :D

[reder]

http://clattenburg.epetitions.net/

:rolleyes::rolleyes: SMAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL CLLLLLLLLUBBBBBBBBBBBB

[KildareFan]

http://clattenburg.epetitions.net/

:rolleyes::rolleyes: SMAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL CLLLLLLLLUBBBBBBBBBBBB

It wasn't so long ago that Liverpool were using a petition to get into the champs league!!!

And you must have missed Benitez demanding an apology from Rob Styles are the chelsea after a referee dared give a decision against them.

But then, liverpool fans always did have short memories.

[reder]

It wasn't so long ago that Liverpool were using a petition to get into the champs league!!!

Erm, I presume you are talking about 2005 when we won the European cup for the 5th time (you get to keep it when you win it 5 times, just in case you didnt know that). As WINNERS of the tournament it would have been crazy not having us in the tournament. UEFA wanted us in so any petition was secondary.



And you must have missed Benitez demanding an apology from Rob Styles are the chelsea after a referee dared give a decision against them.

I must have and Benitez or those linked with LFC never called for Styles to be banned for LIFE!



But then, liverpool fans always did have short memories.

We win an awful lot of tournaments and trying to keep in all that info coupled with the effects of many many hard nights of celebrating is just too much. We lose track of facts and figures now and again.

[anto1208]

from everton homepage

Controversial referee Mark Clattenburg has been relieved of Premier League duties this weekend.

Clattenburg made a number of high profile decisions durng Saturday's derby that left Everton's fans, players and manager highly frustrated.

He awarded a penalty to Liverpool's Steven Gerrard, sent off Tony Hibbert, failed to punish a dangerous Dirk Kuyt challenge and turned down two penalty shouts for fouls on Joleon Lescott.

Now the Professional Game Match Board, the body that appointes referees, have decided the north-east official is best off away from the action this weekend.

[Metrostars]

How many other shots on target did Everton have in the game?

Reder, you are very good at putting words into other people's mouths.

Thats not what I'm talking about... I just mentioned the missed penalty claim at the end of the game. It should have been a penalty and Liverpool got lucky with that.

[reder]

Good piece on the derby from the red point of view. Sums feelings up pretty well.


Perpetrating the myths

By Liverpudlian
Date: 23/10/2007

Unless we play them in a cup competition, I see Everton play twice a season, I couldn't tell you what their acknowledged first eleven is and apart from Stubbs, Johnson & Neville, wouldn't recognise one of their players if they knocked on my front door.

I view Everton with the same indifference as Aston Villa, Newcastle or Fulham. They are just another middle of the table club, here only to make up the numbers.
Unfortunately due to their presence in the city, what I do see and hear) on a very regular basis, is their fans. I work alongside them, I have them as friends and I have listened to their inane drivel both first hand & in the media for more years than I care to remember.

Evertonians, Blue noses or whatever you want to call them are a breed apart with an unhealthy attitude matched only by their compatriots in the blue side of Manchester. But whereas Citeh fans are at least blessed with a sense of humour & a semblance of humility, our learned brethren from across the park take themselves far too seriously and expect everyone else to do the same with their club.

You see Everton are never beaten fair and square. Should they lose, it is always courtesy of bad refereeing decisions, bad luck or circumstances way beyond their control. Furthermore, because they do suffer these injustices on such a regular basis, they all seem have a built in set of self-defence mechanisms designed to maintain that feeling of well-being & status as a bitter blue.

Firstly they all seem to have selective memory syndrome & an ability to talk-up their club regardless of form or position in the league. They retain the double whammy in that they can always draw solace on the occasions when we lose & they are orgasmic should we lose in a final. You see your average Everton Fan gains as much comfort from us losing than them winning. Our defeat in Athens meant as much as any result in their illustrious history. The prospect of us being crowned Champions of Europe so soon after the "fix" in Istanbul would have taken some explaining away (even in their deluded minds) so the result brought as much pleasure across the park as it did in the streets of Milan.

In decrying every trophy that we have ever won over the last forty years as lucky, there are now 3 generations who have the notion implanted in their very psyche that referees and the various football bodies are all on our payroll & if that is not enough, we even get help from more celestial bodies. A work colleague of mine maintains that we are "in league with the Devil" and has made that statement with total conviction for at least the last thirty years. He is convinced with every fibre in his body that there is a different agenda at work here and everyone & everything conspires to help us.

This mentality of explaining away the disparity in the silverware count gains credibility as each dyed in the (blue) wool baby comes into this world, only to be brain washed by air brushing the reasons for our success over the years and implanting a single minded perverted bias.

The banning of English teams post-Heysel obviously affected Everton as much as anyone. Their team of the mid eighties was the only one in living memory with any sort of ability and most blues consider this team were good enough to conquer Europe and that may well have been the case but would that notion also not have applied to our Barnes, Beardsley & Aldridge side?

The "friendly" derbies became a thing of the past during the nineties and there can be little doubt that the banning was the catalyst to what has transpired since but will they ever let it lie?

They say that fans get the club they deserve and it is certainly true in their case. Wyness and Kenwright have become laughing stocks over the years with the many "missed" transfer targets and aborted attempts to leave Goodison. Just like a broken clock is right twice in every 24 hours though, even Everton have had cause to celebrate courtesy of a good season or a fluke derby win. So what do they do? Magnify it out of all proportion by bringing out memento DVDs in some vain attempt to even up the count at the football section at HMV. So when they beat Liverpool 3-0 for the best win in 40 years, amazingly a DVD was out in days. Likewise, the dodgy qualification for the champions league for the only time in a generation brought about a commemorative DVD, but in doing so they were too smug to avoid the pitfalls. By trying to be smart arses & calling it "Champions league we're having a laugh" they were nicely primed for ridicule. When yet another refereeing decision robbed them of the expected cash windfall, nobody was laughing at all, or were they?

Kenwright's script writers failed miserably in the ploy to harmonise the fans by calling themselves the "Peoples club" in a vain attempt to convince everyone of their percentage local fan base in the city. Sounding, now, like some latter day "Walton British Legion" they will obviously hope to avoid transferring all those empty match-day seats & unsold season tickets when they "allegedly" move to Kirkby because every little helps.

In order to ease the anxiety in the build up to derby matches, military rhetoric like "dogs of war" and "battling in midfield" rallies the troops on a ground where once Alex Young played. An actual derby match at Goodison, though, is a sight to behold. There is supporting your team and there is this. Every time one of our lads picks up the ball on the touchline for a throw in or corner he is subjected to a torrent of abuse that is which is way over the top. Grown men, not kids, their faces contorted and grotesque borne out of years of inequality, let out a pent up stream of anger & frustration. A feature, peculiar to Goodison, resonates round those quaint wooden stands with every challenge. Sounding like demented crows feeding in a cornfield, the strange "waah " noise booms out from all sides demanding a free kick with every tackle, regardless of what has actually happened. If the award is not given, the tirade begins on the referee who is, of course, anti-Everton before he has even walked onto the pitch. With the chips on their shoulders bigger than their brand new replica shirts, they sing the song to Stevie and though their talisman was Duncan Ferguson, they actually have the nerve to call our captain a thug.

Again on Saturday we saw a Liverpool win and surprise, surprise we again have winging from the Everton camp that they were robbed. Why must there always be a debate when Everton get beaten? Do they still believe the ******** they come out with or is it because desperate times call for desperate measures? Their tactics remain, apparently, to get the ball into the box quickly, jump or back into your opponents, fall down, create confusion, look for the second ball or as a last resort claim a penalty.

School of science?

They tell me Arteta is a good player. If that is so why is he wasting his with this undisciplined rabble?

Yet again, they were reduced to nine men in a derby match as a direct result of their tactics and the fact that they are simply not good enough. We were playing poorly and again they blew it by having men sent off when in a winning position. The furore inevitably and always surrounds the refereeing decisions but they fail to see that, as usual Reina had practically nothing to do whilst Andriy twice, JAR & Dirk should have added to our tally.

In a perverted sort of way, another derby defeat will suit the bitters who will write off the defeat in the usual manner by the addition of another chapter in their book of perceived injustices to read to their kids with the other fantasies at bed time.

The bare facts are that Everton no longer take on Liverpool by playing football. They have had too many defeats in the past by taking us on & Moyes is at least good enough to recognise that fact. So by continually ensuring his team promote confrontation & controversy on the pitch, their fans can argue for equality off it.

Big club? My arse.

Satisfying times to be a red.

Liverpudlian

[reder]

It should have been a penalty and Liverpool got lucky with that.

Agree 100%.

[KildareFan]

from everton homepage

Controversial referee Mark Clattenburg has been relieved of Premier League duties this weekend.

Clattenburg made a number of high profile decisions durng Saturday's derby that left Everton's fans, players and manager highly frustrated.

He awarded a penalty to Liverpool's Steven Gerrard, sent off Tony Hibbert, failed to punish a dangerous Dirk Kuyt challenge and turned down two penalty shouts for fouls on Joleon Lescott.

Now the Professional Game Match Board, the body that appointes referees, have decided the north-east official is best off away from the action this weekend.


This is actually wrong from what I believe. He is refereeing a UEFA cup on Thurs so automatically wouldn't get a premiership game anyway. If a referee is suspended, they normally make an announcment. Like when Styles made 1 wrong decision against Liverpool.

1 rule for them, 1 rule for the others

[anto1208]

Good piece on the derby from the red point of view. Sums feelings up pretty well.

Thats a very funny piece from some one who cares so little and knows so little about everton he was able to write that incrediblely long piece on them ............wait hold on a second

Turns out its not a good piece but yet an other liverpool fans showing how they dont think the derby is a big game ..........strange i could have sworn i saw Carragher etc all running arms in the air the lenght of the pitch to there fans after beating a middle of the table team that none of them care about beating :rolleyes:

[mypost]

i saw Carragher etc all running arms in the air the lenght of the pitch to there fans after beating a middle of the table team that none of them care about beating :rolleyes:

Common reaction to winning in injury time :p Similiar to the glorious injury time win in 2001. :p

[anto1208]

Common reaction to winning in injury time :p Similiar to the glorious injury time win in 2001. :p

But not in a game you dont care about which is the point of the piece

[KildareFan]

But not in a game you dont care about which is the point of the piece

It only means nothing to them when they lose

[Armando]

I had to laugh at the Liverpool players over the top celebrations at the end of the game.
It was kind of like a poor mans Chelsea of recent seasons gone by.

[drinkfeckarse]

I think it was more a case of trying to bury the ghost of last season's 3-0 result.

[Roadend]

I had to laugh at the Liverpool players over the top celebrations at the end of the game.
It was kind of like a poor mans Chelsea of recent seasons gone by.

In what way?

[mypost]

But not in a game you dont care about which is the point of the piece

Notice that the writer wasn't talking about the players. :o:rolleyes: Or are we banned from celebrating winning these days?? :confused:

[anto1208]

Notice that the writer wasn't talking about the players. :Or are we banned from celebrating winning these days??:

What ??

Of course you can celebrate but it just makes ye look silly when ye go on and on about how little the game means to ye then act like ye have won a cup beating us at home. He states that its similar to playing villa lets see if the players run the lenght of the pitch after beating villa i dont think they will .

Plus anyone that says the game doesnt matter is an idiot every real fan loves a derby win no matter which side your on , Its only the idiot Irish liverpool fans that come out with gems like Chelsea is our derby now :rolleyes:
But then again they are the same idiots that slag irish blues about the club leaving the city

Ive never once met a liverpool fan in liverpool that couldnt care about the derby result not once in all the times ive been there.

[drinkfeckarse]

Its only the idiot Irish liverpool fans that come out with gems like Chelsea is our derby now :rolleyes:



:eek: If a so called Liverpool fan said that to me he'd get a slap round the head :D

[Roadend]

I think reder has discovered a fairly easy technique for riling the blueshi*e. Here let me try it...... Playing everton is like playing err....Watford.....

[mypost]

Of course you can celebrate

The cent drops. :p


it just makes ye look silly when ye go on and on about how little the game means to ye then act like ye have won a cup beating us at home.

We've won away from home in injury time. I'm sure you'd prefer us to trudge off the pitch like we lost 3-0, but we won, so we can celebrate how we like. If you don't like it, it's quite simple, just move your thumb. :D

You never know, we may even bring out a DVD. :eek:Oh sorry I forgot, we have to win a few more matches first, so have to wait 'til the end of the season for that.

[anto1208]

Why is phil Nevile still being mentioned in possible line up he is suspended no ? fingers crossed anyway .

Cahill and Grav back Vaughan isnt going to be in the squad thigh strain but great to have him back training .

Im thinking for tonight

Timmy
Jags Yobo Lescott Baines
Osman Artetta Carsley Pienaar
Mcfadden Yakubu

Bench
Cahill :D
tommy G :D
Wessels
Big Vic
Stubbs
VDM
Lucas

And fingers crossed they can finally play well in Europe , Larissa are the team that beat blackburn so they are handy enough

[anto1208]

They had me worried there for a bit started really well very comfortable Cahill on his first game back scores then Osman makes it two with one of the best worked goals ive seen. Cahill picks it up in midfield marked by two players feeds a perfect ball between them out to the left to Baines on the overlap he then slots it across to Pienaar on the edge of the box he then give a lovely back heel flick to roll it back to osman who cracks it from 30 yard with the outside of his boot and curls it just inside the post .

Then the madness starts Howards rollign it out to Lescott who was marked he looses the ball and they are all of a sudden back in it , Everton then have a dodgy 10 mins where every ball lseemed to bounce extra high and no one could get a grip on the game untill a nothing ball was chased down by big VIc two defenders that tried to shoulder him off the ball just bounced off him and he calmly slotted it past the keeper .

Derby on sunday now to get the season back on track .

[drinkfeckarse]

Great goal by Osman last week alright.

[anto1208]

2 nil away to Derby it was allways goign to be easy just didnt think it would be that easy Howard i think made one save a shot from 30 yards straight at him . Good goal from Artetta and a well taken goal from Yak after a brilliant through ball from Pienaar he is looking like a serious bargin for £2 mill i hope moyes moves in the jan window gets it secured , Such a clever player has taken time to settle and get used to the physical side on english football .

Glad Yakubu scored it will help him he is taking time to get up and going and needed to break the no scoring run he is on . Another fantastic display from Lescott im blown away at how good this guy is at both defending and getting foward well able to beat a player and score !! .

Luton now wens night i expect a shift in the team with Big vic and faddy starting up front

[anto1208]

Good stuff 3 wins in 3 thats a good return to form Cahill again oh how we have missed his goals,but the best thing on the night was seeing james Vaughan back on the pitch.

Luton did well fair play to them took us to extra time good old fashioned cup tie standing ovation from both sets of fans at the final whistle

[reder]

Ok performance and win for the reds. Blackburn away on sat will be a different kettle of fish. Next round Everton away!

[mypost]

It's Chelsea away. :(

[cobra]

the way were playing, its the last place , ye want to go..but there again its a cup comp, they should freeze:D

[mypost]

I guess he'll put the youngsters out for that one as well. :rolleyes:

[reder]

I guess he'll put the youngsters out for that one as well. :rolleyes:

Defo will, game is scheduled for 18/19 Dec as far as I know and rafa will want to rest players before xmas run of games. Personally, I would love it if he put out the full side. Would love to put one over the slimey cockney g1ts.

[KildareFan]

Defo will, game is scheduled for 18/19 Dec as far as I know and rafa will want to rest players before xmas run of games. Personally, I would love it if he put out the full side. Would love to put one over the slimey cockney g1ts.

The way Liverpool are playing, there is no guarantee that their first choice team would beat anybody never mind chelsea away.

[Roadend]

Well anybody besides Everton anyway.

[KildareFan]

Well anybody besides Everton anyway.

Maybe if Mark Clattenburg refereed Liverpool's game every week, they'd win each game?

[Roadend]

They don't call ye the bitters for nothing

[KildareFan]

They don't call ye the bitters for nothing

Am I bitter than we weren't given a nailed on penalty two minutes into injury to have a chance of getting a draw against our deadly rivals with only 9 men after Carragher did sort some of wrestling hold on Lescott? Yes, I am.

But the four wins out of four for us and liverpool's form since has softened the blow :-)

[mypost]

Am I bitter than we weren't given a nailed on penalty two minutes into injury

Iyo. You're also assuming you'd score past one of the best penalty stoppers in the PL, aren't you?? :rolleyes:

Maybe you should blame the bloke who missed the rebound in front of an open goal instead.

[KildareFan]

Iyo. You're also assuming you'd score past one of the best penalty stoppers in the PL, aren't you?? :rolleyes:

Maybe you should blame the bloke who missed the rebound in front of an open goal instead.

Where did I say we would score? I said it should have been a penalty, surely you agree we'd have a better chance of scoring if it was awarded than if it wasn't?

Anyway, it's all in the past now. In a strange way it could have been a good thing as the four wins since suggest. We've two tough away games this week, that'll show if we really have turned a corner or whether we just had 4 easy games in a row.

[Roadend]

, that'll show if we really have turned a corner

Are you Gerard Houllier in disguise?

[anto1208]

Where did I say we would score? I said it should have been a penalty, surely you agree we'd have a better chance of scoring if it was awarded than if it wasn't?

Anyway, it's all in the past now. In a strange way it could have been a good thing as the four wins since suggest. We've two tough away games this week, that'll show if we really have turned a corner or whether we just had 4 easy games in a row.

I dont think it was just easy games allthough they where not very hard games they have come thick and fast .

On sat Pienaar showed what he can do he is a really good find moyes needs to get him singed up in Jan others will be watching him all ready . its good to have a player that can give an intelligent through ball or pass . the yak will flourish with him in the side as he doesnt have to spend all his time chasing long balls into the corner .

Its no coincedence that our results changed when Carsley got into the team again the work he puts in off the ball is emence , Neville was again the worst player on the pitch Jags wasnt too far behind him he should be right back,lesscott at centre back and baines when fit at left .

I wonder how we will cope when YAk, yobo, big Vic and Pienaar are all gone to africa for a month . Glad Vaughan is back and scoring

[KildareFan]

I dont think it was just easy games allthough they where not very hard games they have come thick and fast .

On sat Pienaar showed what he can do he is a really good find moyes needs to get him singed up in Jan others will be watching him all ready . its good to have a player that can give an intelligent through ball or pass . the yak will flourish with him in the side as he doesnt have to spend all his time chasing long balls into the corner .

Its no coincedence that our results changed when Carsley got into the team again the work he puts in off the ball is emence , Neville was again the worst player on the pitch Jags wasnt too far behind him he should be right back,lesscott at centre back and baines when fit at left .

I wonder how we will cope when YAk, yobo, big Vic and Pienaar are all gone to africa for a month . Glad Vaughan is back and scoring

Pienaar was excellent against Birmingham and has been for the last few games. I was at the Larissa game and his flick for Osman's goal was superb. He would be a steal at 2m. I was surprised when he was left out of the liverpool game.

Interesting to hear Moyes talk about needing a physcial presence in midfield. I'd love him to go for appiah

Neither the yak nor vic were in the latest nigerian squad so we might still have them in january.

Very busy time coming up for us, we have ten games between dec 1st and jan 1st not to mention the past few weeks. It's great though, a win on Thursday would be we are almost certainly through and probably could afford to rest a few players in our final two games depending on how the other games in the group go.

[anto1208]

I hope we dont loose any of them but at least up front we have cover .

some good news today AJ signs a five year deal


"The England international has put pen to paper on a new five year deal, which replaces the five year contract he signed when he arrived from Crystal Palace for £8.6m in the summer of 2006."

[anto1208]

On Setanta Ireland think thats the free one thursday.


Live UEFA Cup - Nurnberg v Everton
Available in Ireland only. Live action from the easyCredit-Stadion, as Everton travel to Germany to take on Bundesliga side FC Nurnberg. K.O. 20:05.

[mypost]

So only 8-0 then. God I wish it was 9. :D

A total, comprehensive, demolition job, the biggest win in CL history. Yet Souness states that we didn't play well. No wonder he can't get a job. :rolleyes: