Everton and Liverpool discussion

[HuRya]

Nice touch out of a section of the liverpool fans to boo the minutes' silence for the Great Georgie Best. the referee was warned that this might happen and (of course) it duely did, in the scouse end.. the minute turned into 19 seconds..
A disgrace if ever there was one.

[JoeSemi]

Nice touch out of a section of the liverpool fans to boo the minutes' silence for the Great Georgie Best. the referee was warned that this might happen and (of course) it duely did, in the scouse end.. the minute turned into 19 seconds..
A disgrace if ever there was one.

It was an absolute disgrace. I hope these pr!cks are found out and never set foot in another ground again. There's always the potential for a few morons to mar a minutes silence and the alternative of a minutes applause that was used at most grounds is more fitting and sensible. What mustn't be allowed to snowball is a campaign against LFC,as all it takes is a few idiots to lower the name of all Liverpool fans.

[anto1208]

as ye all know ill grab any chance to slate liverpool fans with both hands , but in relation to the booing it wasnt actually the liverpool fans at all but the city fans , i know it was reported other wise and if there was any truth in it at all id be all over it , but fair is fair thats too scummy even for the red****e .

now back to this beattie crouch comparrison being made .

crouch 17 games no goals 0% strike rate
beattie 9 games 3 goals 33% strike rate

of those 9 game he started 6 and even the utd game he came off injured after 20 mins so really thats 5 !! and he has been making his come back from injury .

yet another 1 nil win this weekend and only for given having a stormer it should have been 3 or 4 -1 ( it was a peno faddy saved on the line with his hand .~)

[Block G Raptor]

I was at anfield the weekend Matt busby Died and we Played man city
they booe'd that minute silence too so it came as a surprize to me when i heard that it was been blamed on liverpool fans as I assumed it was the same city lowlifes
at least what anto say's backs up my suspicion

[JoeSemi]

as ye all know ill grab any chance to slate liverpool fans with both hands , but in relation to the booing it wasnt actually the liverpool fans at all but the city fans , i know it was reported other wise and if there was any truth in it at all id be all over it , but fair is fair thats too scummy even for the red****e .

now back to this beattie crouch comparrison being made .

crouch 17 games no goals 0% strike rate
beattie 9 games 3 goals 33% strike rate

of those 9 game he started 6 and even the utd game he came off injured after 20 mins so really thats 5 !! and he has been making his come back from injury .

yet another 1 nil win this weekend and only for given having a stormer it should have been 3 or 4 -1 ( it was a peno faddy saved on the line with his hand .~)

Fair play for clarifying that anto. I was baffled when it was blamed on Reds fans after all the tragedies that have beset the club before. Where did you hear otherwise, as all the papers are pointing the finger at Liverpool?

You can't dismiss the stats on Crouch v Beattie that you've pointed out, but the fact remains that one is a current international, held in high esteem by many a top manager, playing with the current European champions. I hate saying it because it could be taken out of context, but he's a more rounded footballer than Beattie:p

[anto1208]

Fair play for clarifying that anto. I was baffled when it was blamed on Reds fans after all the tragedies that have beset the club before. Where did you hear otherwise, as all the papers are pointing the finger at Liverpool?

You can't dismiss the stats on Crouch v Beattie that you've pointed out, but the fact remains that one is a current international, held in high esteem by many a top manager, playing with the current European champions. I hate saying it because it could be taken out of context, but he's a more rounded footballer than Beattie:p

i was watching it live in a pub in liverpool ,the comentator even said that booing is coming from the opposite end to where the liverpool fans are , the camera zoomed in on the liverpool fans i didnt see any booing (but there could have been off camera )but the city fans were clear as day,

sven does pick the squad though so i would nt read to much into crouchs england carrer

[anto1208]

the latest rumour is that cisse is on his way out in jan and with robbie keane coming in .

[4tothefloor]

I wouldn't sign Robbie Keane if he was the last striker on the planet. I've more brain power in my left testicle......watching him frustrate the hell out of me for Ireland is enough thanks very much!

Apparently Simao is on his way, Benitez prefers him to Jaoquin as he's two footed and about £3m/£4m cheaper. He's also bid £4.5m for some centre half from one of the Moscow clubs, but Fiorentina are also in for him. The man I'd sign is Dirk Kuyt from Feynoord - the mans an animal in front of goal, awesome potential......pull the finger out Rafa!

[sligoman]

The man I'd sign is Dirk Kuyt from Feynoord - the mans an animal in front of goal, awesome potentialSo why waste all that by joining Liverpool?:confused: :p.

[dfx-]

Cisse for Keane...one big moaner for another...

Another quiet weeke for Liverpool begrudgers - at this rate they'll explode having to keep all that tripe (that they usually come out with) locked inside them all they need is for one minor slip-up..:cool: :p

[mypost]

Sunderland v Liverpool


We are at Sunderland tonight, and as we were the last team they beat in the league at home, this game is a revenge mission for us. We have had to wait 3 years since the defeat for an opportunity to put them, in their place!!

[jockser]

fans like season ticket holders , you know the ones that go week in week out and hand over there hard earned cash ,rather than pop down the pub ;)

i was watching it live in a pub
oh dear.....:rolleyes:

[anto1208]

oh dear.....:rolleyes:

oh dear, oh dear, oh dear ...:rolleyes:

let me explain me being an everton fan i hold a season ticket to Goodison park .
this might go someway to explaining why i was nt at the man city v liverpool game but rather watching it on tv in a pub liverpool while the missus went shopping ( btw the everton game was on the following day ).

[jockser]

oh dear, oh dear, oh dear

let me explain me being an everton fan i hold a season ticket to Goodison park .
this might go someway to explaining why i was nt at the man city v liverpool game but rather watching it on tv in a pub liverpool while the missus went shopping ( btw the everton game was on the following day ).
Hook line .....and sinker!!!! :D :D :D

[jockser]

anyway 4th now and climbing.....der der der der der der der deerrrrrrrr!!!!!

does +12 in november mean anything to you !?!?! :D .......ill give you a clue its not the temperature outside!!!

[dfx-]

I'm getting worried about the Liverpool begrudgers now...I hope they're not choking on their own statistics because they are worryingly quiet..


P TEAM P W D L F A GD PTS
1 Chelsea 14 12 1 1 33 7 26 37
2 Manchester United 13 8 3 2 21 13 8 27
3 Arsenal 13 8 2 3 22 10 12 26
4 Liverpool 13 7 4 2 15 8 7 25
5 Wigan Athletic 13 8 1 4 16 10 6 25
6 Tottenham Hotspur 14 6 6 2 16 10 6 24
7 Bolton Wanderers 13 7 2 4 15 13 2 23
8 Manchester City 14 6 3 5 15 12 3 21
9 West Ham United 13 5 4 4 17 13 4 19
10 Middlesbrough 14 5 4 5 20 20 0 19
11 Charlton Athletic 13 6 1 6 17 18 -1 19
12 Newcastle United 14 5 3 6 12 14 -2 18
13 Blackburn Rovers 14 5 3 6 15 18 -3 18
14 Fulham 14 4 3 7 16 20 -4 15
15 Aston Villa 14 4 3 7 14 22 -8 15
16 Everton 13 4 1 8 5 16 -11 13
17 West Bromwich Albion 14 3 3 8 15 24 -9 12
18 Portsmouth 14 2 4 8 11 20 -9 10
19 Birmingham City 13 2 3 8 8 17 -9 9
20 Sunderland 15 1 2 12 12 30 -18 5



Now about Liverpool being in 12th place, mypost...........

Michael Owen is really proving his worth to whoever he went to isn't he...? They must be doing well after spending €25m on such a prolific striker....;) ;)

[4tothefloor]

Imagine if we had bought and spent all that money on Owen - he'd hardly have played a handful of games by now, cos guess what, he's injured all the time. All that bench warming in Madrid must have done his posture! :D And we'd have no money for a Simao/Jaoquin in January. Amazing the way Owen is always fit for England though, isn't it? :rolleyes:

[mypost]

I'm getting worried about the Liverpool begrudgers now...I hope they're not choking on their own statistics because they are worryingly quiet..

Now about Liverpool being in 12th place, mypost...........

Michael Owen is really proving his worth to whoever he went to isn't he...? They must be doing well after spending €25m on such a prolific striker.

Where are you going with your begrudgers crap?? I don't begrudge the club anything. When things are going well, there's no need to criticise. When they aren't however...

We're 4th now, great. How did we get there? By beating decent opposition? Er, no. :( We got there by overcoming the mighty challenges of West Ham, Sunderland, and Portsmouth. No disrespect to the above teams, but a club with our resources should demand, sorry expect, to beat those sides every week. Pity we weren't fourth in August.

Re: Owen. Michael Owen was bought expensively by a rival club, and scores goals when he plays. On the other hand, we spend €10 milion on a yoke who cannot score, from headers, sitters, set-pieces, penalties, you name it, he misses it. For €10 million, I expect more output from a striker than the ground-breaking skill of winning headers, and holding the ball up for team mates. :rolleyes: The odd goal or two wouldn't go amiss, you know. That's what he is at the club to do.

[jockser]

We're 4th now, great. How did we get there? By beating decent opposition? Er, no. :( We got there by overcoming the mighty challenges of West Ham, Sunderland, and Portsmouth. No disrespect to the above teams, but a club with our resources should demand, sorry expect, to beat those sides every week. Pity we weren't fourth in August.

absolute boll*x coz you were the very person who said we wouldnt get half the points from the above teams!!!for the last 10 years we would have got maximum 10 points from the last 15 we won. now Rafa wins all 5 games and you still say "well its expected"......including beating a 15 year clean shhet record. you talk absolute cr*p i dont consider you a liverpool supporter coz a supporter SUPPORTS his team through thick and thin not whinges and moan at EVERY opportunity.......go follow michael owen FC:rolleyes:
"pity we weren't 4th in August"....what the f*ck has that got to do with anything!!!!! when has the league ever been won in august?!?!?! you havent a clue!!!!

[JoeSemi]

Where are you going with your begrudgers crap?? I don't begrudge the club anything. When things are going well, there's no need to criticise. When they aren't however...

We're 4th now, great. How did we get there? By beating decent opposition? Er, no. :( We got there by overcoming the mighty challenges of West Ham, Sunderland, and Portsmouth. No disrespect to the above teams, but a club with our resources should demand, sorry expect, to beat those sides every week. Pity we weren't fourth in August.

Re: Owen. Michael Owen was bought expensively by a rival club, and scores goals when he plays. On the other hand, we spend €10 milion on a yoke who cannot score, from headers, sitters, set-pieces, penalties, you name it, he misses it. For €10 million, I expect more output from a striker than the ground-breaking skill of winning headers, and holding the ball up for team mates. :rolleyes: The odd goal or two wouldn't go amiss, you know. That's what he is at the club to do.

So your a fair weather supporter then? You stick with the team through both good and bad spells and that goes for players aswell. Its all well and good preaching your a diehard fan when the trophies flood in, but its when things slip a bit that a supporter will show his true worth i.e see the positives and trust in the manager and players.

There has been an improvement on every corresponding result from last year so far except Chelsea and Fulham, if that says anything about the progress the team is making. They are comfortably into the last 16 of the Champions Lge unlike last year, when faced with a make or break game with Olympiakos to decide their fate. There's is still a game in hand over Chavski and if they happen to win that they will be a disastrous 9 points behind them. That good enough for you?:rolleyes:

Take a look back at any of Rafa's past Valencia teams and there was never a striker who was an out and out goalscorer. He mainly had Carew or Mista as the fulcrum with Angulo, Aimar, Vicente and Baraja all chipping in behind. Yes, Peter Crouch is a striker and should have scored by now but he has contributed his fair share to recent victories despite not scoring. Is there not a similar pattern emerging in Liverpool's play to that of Valencia's, with Gerrard and Garcia getting their fair share of goals from behind the front man? I think so.

This Michael Owen issue will never stop when people like you are constantly whinging and making comparisons. Throw him into Rafa's preferred formation and Liverpool wouldn't have got the results they achieved recently. You can only play one way to Owen and that is to suit him by getting balls in behind. With Crouch you have plenty of variety and at the moment other players are benefiting.

[Dotsy]

So your a fair weather supporter then? You stick with the team through both good and bad spells and that goes for players aswell. Its all well and good preaching your a diehard fan when the trophies flood in, but its when things slip a bit that a supporter will show his true worth i.e see the positives and trust in the manager and players.

There has been an improvement on every corresponding result from last year so far except Chelsea and Fulham, if that says anything about the progress the team is making. They are comfortably into the last 16 of the Champions Lge unlike last year, when faced with a make or break game with Olympiakos to decide their fate. There's is still a game in hand over Chavski and if they happen to win that they will be a disastrous 9 points behind them. That good enough for you?:rolleyes:

Take a look back at any of Rafa's past Valencia teams and there was never a striker who was an out and out goalscorer. He mainly had Carew or Mista as the fulcrum with Angulo, Aimar, Vicente and Baraja all chipping in behind. Yes, Peter Crouch is a striker and should have scored by now but he has contributed his fair share to recent victories despite not scoring. Is there not a similar pattern emerging in Liverpool's play to that of Valencia's, with Gerrard and Garcia getting their fair share of goals from behind the front man? I think so.

This Michael Owen issue will never stop when people like you are constantly whinging and making comparisons. Throw him into Rafa's preferred formation and Liverpool wouldn't have got the results they achieved recently. You can only play one way to Owen and that is to suit him by getting balls in behind. With Crouch you have plenty of variety and at the moment other players are benefiting.


Brilliant post. Sums up the situation perfectly for me. I still have my doubts about Crouch and can't for the life of me understand why Kewell even gets near the bench but overall the team performances have improved hugely in the premiership since last year. Add that to the continuing progress in the CL and I am willing to give Rafa the benefit of the doubt. I think the team is still a work in progress as far as he is concerned. Hopefully it will get even better after the January signings.

[jockser]

oh lads back to the football.......what about Alonsos 2 assists last night!!!??!?
i mean like holy fcuk!!!!!! how the hell does he do that!!! amazing passer of the ball !!!!

[Dillo]

oh lads back to the football.......what about Alonsos 2 assists last night!!!??!?
i mean like holy fcuk!!!!!! how the hell does he do that!!! amazing passer of the ball !!!!


with his right foot jockser.

[jockser]

with his right foot jockser.
dont forget his left too dillo. the assist of the year was with his left......;)

[dfx-]

Where are you going with your begrudgers crap?? I don't begrudge the club anything. When things are going well, there's no need to criticise. When they aren't however...

We're 4th now, great. How did we get there? By beating decent opposition? Er, no. We got there by overcoming the mighty challenges of West Ham, Sunderland, and Portsmouth. No disrespect to the above teams, but a club with our resources should demand, sorry expect, to beat those sides every week. Pity we weren't fourth in August.

Re: Owen. Michael Owen was bought expensively by a rival club, and scores goals when he plays. On the other hand, we spend €10 milion on a yoke who cannot score, from headers, sitters, set-pieces, penalties, you name it, he misses it. For €10 million, I expect more output from a striker than the ground-breaking skill of winning headers, and holding the ball up for team mates. The odd goal or two wouldn't go amiss, you know. That's what he is at the club to do.

Hehehe..there's so much wrong with post I could spend all night having a field day...

Firstly on Owen, I'm sure Newcastle would appreciate it if their €25m signing could actually play a few matches here and there..that is what he is there at the club to do..

Afterall, I don't know about the Liverpool begrudgers, but I would prefer to spend €10m on a player who at least has *some* influence on a match...goal or no goal;)

About lower opposition....so could you not realise in August that we were going to play these teams and that your response of threat of relegation was *slightly* inaccurate......? That the league table might look a bit more accurate after those games and that 12th - as much you tried/hoped to convince everyone otherwise - was not a true showing of Liverpool's abilities.........?

Who cares who we beat? All 19 teams have to be beaten you know...beating Chelsea and United is not an indicator of ability...there are not just two/four games a season that you deem the results worthwhile...:rolleyes: We've beaten Arsenal and United in successive games under Houllier - by your hypothesis then that Liverpool team was the best in the country...............then they went and lost on a cold winter's day in the North East I seem to remember..........

Here, since you generally base your opinion on statistics and results regardless of how the match was played....:

10 clean sheets out of 13.
No goal conceded in 420 minutes of football in all competitions.
5 wins in a row in the Premiership
Steven Gerrard - 11 goals from midfield.
Our best run in 9 years.
Our best clean sheet run in 15 years..
Already qualified and top of the group of Death in Europe
In fourth place with a game in hand at home - on a better goal difference..


Perhaps it's that we're not entertaining enough for you, poor thing...And this with a comparatively weak side with no centre half cover and no right winger and apparently no strikeforce.

God help the begrudgers when Benitez gets a good team on his hands then...;)

[4tothefloor]

Where are you going with your begrudgers crap?? I don't begrudge the club anything. When things are going well, there's no need to criticise. When they aren't however...

We're 4th now, great. How did we get there? By beating decent opposition? Er, no. :( We got there by overcoming the mighty challenges of West Ham, Sunderland, and Portsmouth. No disrespect to the above teams, but a club with our resources should demand, sorry expect, to beat those sides every week. Pity we weren't fourth in August.

Re: Owen. Michael Owen was bought expensively by a rival club, and scores goals when he plays. On the other hand, we spend €10 milion on a yoke who cannot score, from headers, sitters, set-pieces, penalties, you name it, he misses it. For €10 million, I expect more output from a striker than the ground-breaking skill of winning headers, and holding the ball up for team mates. The odd goal or two wouldn't go amiss, you know. That's what he is at the club to do.

You should frame that mypost and put it up on your wall, with the caption "bullsh!t" underneath. Either you're a wind up merchant or you genuinely have no idea what is involved in building a team. I think, no I know, it's the latter. The fact that you expect us to be beating all these lesser clubs all of a sudden is hilarious. We didn't do it under Souness, under Evans or under Houllier. It's why we haven't won a title since 1990. It's called consistency ;) . And Rafa is building it. It's not something that happens overnight because it relies on attitude, belief and the confidence of the players. Those are all things that take time and patience, and if necessary, changing the personnel. You'll see more players coming in January to make us even better.

Yeah we could have/should have signed players in certain positions in the summer, but in a way you have to admire Benitez for not spending the money just for the sake of it. He has clear ideas and knows exactly the players he wants. Unlike Alex Ferguson. Crouch is one of those, Owen wasn't - get over it. To Benitez, he would have taken Owen at a price. The price was ridiculous though so he shelved it for the greater good. That and England being more important to Owen of course :rolleyes: I think with genuine wingers/wide men we will be a serious threat. And of course with wingers it means better service to our strikers, and not everything going through the middle, which is the way it is at the moment.

[JoeSemi]

At the mo, I'm draped across the couch, can of heino in hand, packet of Walkers Prawn Cocktail, and lap-top resting rather precariously, watching Liverpool crashing out of the Champions League, 1-1 (15mins left). She-Devil at work, more heino in fridge...........does it get any better than this???? :D :D

Yeah, Istanbul on May 25th 2005:p

Just had to pull that one out of the archives, dust it down and ram it down a few throats!!

[mypost]

Right, where do I start??


"pity we weren't 4th in August"....what the f*ck has that got to do with anything!!!!! when has the league ever been won in august?!?!?!

Did I ever say the league was won in August?? What I meant, which of course was fairly obvious to most posters, was that if we won 5 games in a row in August/September, instead of November, we would be a lot less than 12 points away from the leaders at the beginning of December. The season starts in August, not November.


There has been an improvement on every corresponding result from last year so far except Chelsea and Fulham, if that says anything about the progress the team is making.

It is no indicator of progress at all.


They are comfortably into the last 16 of the Champions Lge unlike last year.

...in a pis-easy group. Anderlecht are CL whipping boys, and Betis are down the bottom of La Liga. If anything the group was over-hyped.


There's is still a game in hand over Chavski and if they happen to win that they will be a disastrous 9 points behind them. That good enough for you?

In a word, no. The Sunderland game was brought forward, to facilitate our pointless Japanese junket in the middle of December. We will lose any ground gained by that result, when the rest of the league's games from that week are played in our abscence.


Firstly on Owen, I'm sure Newcastle would appreciate it if their €25m signing could actually play a few matches here and there..that is what he is there at the club to do. Afterall, I don't know about the Liverpool begrudgers, but I would prefer to spend €10m on a player who at least has *some* influence on a match...goal or no goal.

When Owen plays, he scores. However, Peter Crouch's scoring record, makes Cissé's and Mori's, look more like Rush's, and Aldo's. Yes, he generally plays well, he tries hard, but that should be standard practice at this club. He is a striker however, who is NOT scoring goals, and his strike rate is ultimately what he will be judged on. If he is such a great player of immense value to a side, why has he been transferred no fewer than 7 times?? :confused:


your response of threat of relegation was *slightly* inaccurate?

I never said we'd be relegated, did I??


Who cares who we beat? All 19 teams have to be beaten you know...beating Chelsea and United is not an indicator of ability...there are not just two/four games a season that you deem the results worthwhile...

Liverpool, like the other big hitters, are expected to beat the teams we've beaten. The difference is, they always do it, we've just done it for the first time. Chelsea beat Arsenal, the neighbours beat Chelsea. Who did we beat?? :confused: Portsmouth, Sunderland, and West Ham, a side that we haven't lost to at home since 1963!! Not in the same league. When we have played our competitors, we played crap at home to the neighbours with one man up front, and were ruthlessly destroyed by Chelsea. They are our real rivals, and our results against them, are a truer reflection of the team's ability, or lack of it by comparison.


Here, since you generally base your opinion on statistics and results regardless of how the match was played....:

10 clean sheets out of 13.
No goal conceded in 420 minutes of football in all competitions.
5 wins in a row in the Premiership
Our best clean sheet run in 15 years..
Already qualified and top of the group of Death in Europe.

You wanted statistics, here's some more:

Under El Beno this season, we:


have made the worst start to our league season since 1992
been the only side NOT to win a league game at Birmingham,
were humiliated once again in a domestic cup campaign under his reign
wasted €10 million on a useless beanpole -laughing stock, to act as a "striker".



You should frame that mypost and put it up on your wall, with the caption "bullsh!t" underneath.

No can do.


The fact that you expect us to be beating all these lesser clubs all of a sudden is hilarious. We didn't do it under Souness, under Evans or under Houllier.

Yes, we should expect to be beating said clubs. The fact we haven't in previous years, shows why we have underperformed in the league for so long.


in a way you have to admire Benitez for not spending the money just for the sake of it. To Benitez, he would have taken Owen at a price. The price was ridiculous though.

We're European Champions, which inflates transfer fees. Owen would have cost €25 million, Figo would have cost €3.5million, a decent central defender would have cost a fair whack too. Stingy Beni wouldn't pay the money asked, so we lost out on signing a decent winger, a quality centre back, and a 20-goal a season striker. In contrast, Chelsea were ordered to pay €33 million for SWP, and €42 million for Essien. They were ridiculous fees, but they paid them, so they are 12 points better off than us, and are top of the league. Some clubs pay the money required, and reap the rewards for it. Others moan about ridiculous transfer fees, refuse to fork out for them, and pay the consequences.

We play Chelsea, a CL rival next week. The game is far from pointless. Avoid defeat = top CL group = seeded in CL knockout draw. As for those who say it is pointless, that's what the sh-ites said last year, until they ran into AC Milan and got knocked out as a result. We have the opportunity to top the group, a rare luxury for LFC, so we should make the most of it.


i dont consider you a liverpool supporter coz a supporter SUPPORTS his team through thick and thin not whinges and moan at EVERY opportunity.

I don't have to look at the club through red-tinted glasses, or subscribe to Benitez's fan club, to support the side. If there is something wrong, I will highlight it. That's because I do support the club. If I wasn't a Liverpool supporter, I wouldn't post on this thread.

[redgav]

August 2005 - Anfield RAFA's Office -
Michael Owen and Rafa in deep conversation discussing terms.


RAFA 'So Michael, such a shame you did not get one of these'
(holds up a CL Medal)

MO 'Yeah well, maybe i can win one for us this year'

RAFA 'Maybe, so how would you like a premiership medal Michael'

MO 'That would be fantastic'

RAFA 'For you?'

MO 'Well yeah, and for the club too of course'

RAFA 'Mmmm, you are a team player aren't you Michael?'

MO 'Of course, anything for the team'

RAFA 'OK, because I have a plan which will win us the title, and it is completely reliant on you to work.'

MO 'what, you bring me back, all is forgiven and I play every game and score 50 goals becoming the top scorer in one season ever in the history of the club?'

RAFA 'Almost'

MO 'Almost? I really am sorry about walking out on you, I do the love it here and will do anything you ask, if you bring me back.'

RAFA 'Anything? OK here are my terms. I want you to miss every chance all season, even penalties. I want you to end the season on 0 goals.'

(MO goes white and gulps)

MO 'no no no no no, I am a goalscorer and it is world cup year'

PAUSE

MO 'I get it, its a joke, hahahaha'

RAFA 'No Michael, I am deadly serious, you score and I drop you.'

MO 'I don't understand'

RAFA 'You said you are a team player yes?'

MO (hesitantly) 'yes...'

RAFA "Imagine it, Michael Owen returns to Liverpool, the biggest signing of the summer, the golden boy of english football, the media darling, englands star striker.'

MO 'I'm with you so far, I just don't get why I can't score any goals.'

RAFA 'You become the story, you take the pressure for the team. You are so high profile that you not scoring will be a far bigger story than our form. We will go on a record winning spree, game after game setting an all time clean sheets record, pipping chelsea to the title, all the time the press ignore the team because you, Michael Owen have not scored a goal all season. The press in this country are that stupid, which will allow your team mates to play without any media spotlight, and bring the trophies home. Do you understand now?'


MO 'I think so - I dont score - we win games - press ignore our amazing run where we win every game and set a record for clean sheets - because they are so focused on me not scoring - therefore allowing our run to continue because noone is feeling the pressure as I am taking it all.'

RAFA 'Exactly Michael, I knew you would understand, think of it this way, this season you well get no goals, but you will get medals, think of this season as demonstrating your loyalty to the club after you abondoned us.'

MO 'But Gaffa, what if I get a penalty???'

RAFA "yes especially penalties, blast them over the bar, the press will have a field day interpreting it as an act of frustration.'

(MO looks sheepish)

MO 'I'm sorry, if it wasn't world cup year coming up, I might consider it...'

RAFA 'In which case I bid you good day, I hope you score lots of goals and win lots of medals at newcastle.'

(Michael Owen walks out Rafa walks him to the door. He then has a thought and turns to his secretary.)

RAFA 'Can you ask Peter Crouch to come to my office straight away please'

RAFA walks back into his office with a sly smile.

[dfx-]

Liverpool Begrudgers take note...maybe all is happy at the club much to your dislike... :rolleyes: ;)

By Oliver Kay

Club and captain are now as one again at Anfield.

HEARD any good Steven Gerrard rumours lately? House-hunting in Hounslow or West Brompton, perhaps? Dining with Peter Kenyon? Remonstrating with Rafael Benítez and checking the small print in his contract? Not even a tiny tantrum about being asked to play on the right wing? No? How very strange.

Gerrard, it is finally safe to say, is happy. Not ecstatic, not while his team remain 12 points adrift of Chelsea at the top of the Barclays Premiership, but content with life at Liverpool and confident enough to feel more than ever that his decision to stay at Anfield last summer, after his head had been turned by the promise of riches and silverware at Stamford Bridge, is one that he can look back on with relief rather than regret.

There was a spring in Gerrard’s step as he headed down the tunnel at the Stadium of Light on Wednesday night, after the whistle had blown on Liverpool’s fifth league win in succession, and it was there again five minutes later, when he re-emerged for the warm-down, cracking jokes with Jamie Carragher and Xabi Alonso. Between times, still smiling, he informed a television reporter that, on present form, his team were ready to have “a right go” at winning the Premiership title.

What a difference a year makes. It is almost 12 months to the day since Gerrard, on the eve of a critical Champions League encounter with Olympiakos, sat in the Anfield press room, pallid and with the weight of an underachieving team upon his shoulders, and declared that, boyhood Liverpudlian or not, he would have no option but to move elsewhere unless, he said, the turnaround under Benítez happened “quite sharpish”.

It did, of course, with the team surpassing Gerrard’s wildest expectations by winning the Champions League in extraordinary circumstances in May, but even then, after an alarming breakdown in communication with Benítez over his contract negotiations, he came perilously close to leaving the club in July before finally signing a new four-year deal. A slow start to the new Premiership campaign, with a solitary win in the first six games, may have given him doubts, but, over the past month, Gerrard has seen unmistakable signs that things are clicking into place under Benítez.

“We’re improving,” he said after his eleventh goal of the season helped Liverpool to a 2-0 win over Sunderland, their seventh consecutive clean sheet in all competitions. “The manager has made some good signings and he’s working on the defence in training. We’re looking quite solid at the back and, if we keep creating chances, we know the goals will come.”

The significance of the compliments about Benítez, about the players he has brought in and the work he has done on the training ground, should not be underestimated. The captain and manager had a problematic first season together, as a slight mutual suspicion spiralled out of control — and would surely have resulted in a bitter split during that mad fortnight in June but for the intervention of Rick Parry, the chief executive, and the player’s agent — but they appear to be speaking the same language now.

Significantly, too, there has been no dissent from Gerrard over his deployment on the right-hand side of midfield in six of the past seven matches, when Dietmar Hamann and the enthusiastic but raw Mohamed Sissoko have often been preferred in the centre.

It is an act of self-sacrifice, however minor, that has pleased his manager. “Steve is a player who can play all positions,” Benítez said . “He likes to play in the centre because he receives more balls and plays more of the game, but at the moment he has freedom on the right. He is the captain and I talk with him about my ideas. He was a key player for us last season but now I think he is more responsible — not because I tell him he has to be but because he plays that way. I think he’s more happy.”

This happiness, friends say, extends to his life away from football after he moved to a new house with his fiancée, Alex, and their young daughter, but it is on the pitch that the effects are most visible. Encouraged by the team’s form and excited, it seems, by the prospect of new arrivals in January, Gerrard appears to believe there is every chance that he can complete his medal collection without leaving his home-town club.

He will, of course, be reminded on Tuesday, when Liverpool visit Chelsea in the Champions League, that he has yet to win the Premiership title and, while he may have to wait a while longer to win that medal with Liverpool, Gerrard is more confident than ever that it will one day be his.

CONSISTENCY KEEPS RED FLAG FLYING

Liverpool have won five Barclays Premiership matches in a row having not managed more than three consecutive league wins in either of the past two seasons. They have also matched Chelsea’s seven successive clean sheets in all competitions. Each of the seven line-ups have featured José Manuel Reina in goal and Steve Finnan, Jamie Carragher and Sami Hyypia in defence, with John Arne Riise at left back five times.

REASONS TO BE CHEERFUL: FIVE FACTORS BEHIND MERSEYSIDERS' DOMESTIC TRANSFORMATION...INCLUDING PETER CROUCH

LESSONS LEARNT

Rafael Benítez seemed flummoxed by English football at times last season, unable to work out how a team could “control” a game yet fail to win it, but he has recognised the grittier qualities needed. They remain critically short of pace in key areas, most notably in attack, but after the acquisition of players such as Mohamed Sissoko, Boudewijn Zenden and, yes, Peter Crouch, they are now far better equipped to deal with the physical demands of Barclays Premiership football.

TEAM SELECTION

When it comes to squad rotation, Benítez is no less of a “tinkerman” than Claudio Ranieri, but he has restricted his changes to more sensible levels of late. Five players — José Manuel Reina, Steve Finnan, Jamie Carragher, Sami Hyypia and Steven Gerrard — have been ever-present in the past seven matches, while another two have missed just one game. It is not quite the title-winning team of 1965-66, when Bill Shankly used 14 players, but newfound stability is helping.

JAMIE CARRAGHER

A creditable twentieth in the Ballon D’Or award, Bootle’s finest is playing even better than last season in a defence that has ten clean sheets in 13 Premiership matches. His form has been so commanding that Reina has barely had a shot to save of late. Eagle-eyed spectators may have noticed that Carragher is frequently played to the left of Hyypia, seemingly to prepare for the arrival of a right-footed centre half — most probably Nemanja Vidic, of Spartak Moscow — in January.

LIGHT WORK

Having faced Tottenham Hotspur, Manchester United and Chelsea in the opening weeks of the Premiership campaign, Liverpool have undoubtedly had a gentler ride over the past month, with matches against West Ham United, Aston Villa, Portsmouth, Manchester City and Sunderland, but they were hardly renowned for winning the “easy” games last season. They have made light work of their past five Premiership games, scoring ten goals without reply.

PETER CROUCH

Yes, that’s right. Peter Crouch. He may have played for 11 minutes short of 24 hours for club and country this season without scoring, but Benítez has no doubt that the forward is a “main reason” for the improvement. “He is a very important player for us. He keeps the ball and gives us more possibilities,” the manager said. It is natural to expect more from a £7 million international forward, but Crouch is doing more than he is given credit for.

(Whereas with 'Mikey': "he is a very important player for us..when he plays. He keeps the ball sometimes when he plays and gives us plenty of opportunities when he plays. It is natural to expect more from a €25m international striker, but Owen is doing less than some people credit him for..and has a masters in warming the bench on those cold days in Newcastle" ;) )
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,428-1900516,00.html

[redgav]

So your a fair weather supporter then? You stick with the team through both good and bad spells and that goes for players aswell. Its all well and good preaching your a diehard fan when the trophies flood in, but its when things slip a bit that a supporter will show his true worth i.e see the positives and trust in the manager and players.

There has been an improvement on every corresponding result from last year so far except Chelsea and Fulham, if that says anything about the progress the team is making. They are comfortably into the last 16 of the Champions Lge unlike last year, when faced with a make or break game with Olympiakos to decide their fate. There's is still a game in hand over Chavski and if they happen to win that they will be a disastrous 9 points behind them. That good enough for you?:rolleyes:

Take a look back at any of Rafa's past Valencia teams and there was never a striker who was an out and out goalscorer. He mainly had Carew or Mista as the fulcrum with Angulo, Aimar, Vicente and Baraja all chipping in behind. Yes, Peter Crouch is a striker and should have scored by now but he has contributed his fair share to recent victories despite not scoring. Is there not a similar pattern emerging in Liverpool's play to that of Valencia's, with Gerrard and Garcia getting their fair share of goals from behind the front man? I think so.

This Michael Owen issue will never stop when people like you are constantly whinging and making comparisons. Throw him into Rafa's preferred formation and Liverpool wouldn't have got the results they achieved recently. You can only play one way to Owen and that is to suit him by getting balls in behind. With Crouch you have plenty of variety and at the moment other players are benefiting.

superb post -sums it up perfectly well

as for owen - interesting to see what the locals are saying about him

http://boards.footymad.net/mboard/f...&mid=2138397969

[sligoman]

Crouch actually scored a goal today:eek:. He set the first goal up too:eek:. Garcia's goal was top class too:rolleyes:,lol

[dfx-]

Crouch scores...once one goes in, another quickly follows.....;) :p

The bedgrudgers must be suicidal at this point, their one lasting grasp of madnes is going...Crouch has now scored - they can take their eyes off the clock and watch the match for once now and maybe they'll understand and fully appreciate how far Liverpool are heading in the right direction...

Another statistic...

Liverpool in top three at least
Last 6 matches: +13 goal difference. 13 goals scored, 0 conceded.
1 match out of 7 at home conceding goals






'Tis looking good for a top three finish isn't it mypost......?

How did Newcastle do today and their ability to spend loads of money, btw....?;)

[redgav]

Crouch scores...once one goes in, another quickly follows.....;) :p

The bedgrudgers must be suicidal at this point, their one lasting grasp of madnes is going...Crouch has now scored - they can take their eyes off the clock and watch the match for once now and maybe they'll understand and fully appreciate how far Liverpool are heading in the right direction...

Another statistic...

Liverpool in top three at least
Last 6 matches: +13 goal difference. 13 goals scored, 0 conceded.
1 match out of 7 at home conceding goals






'Tis looking good for a top three finish isn't it mypost......?

How did Newcastle do today and their ability to spend loads of money, btw....?;)


feck the begrudgers - anyone who actually watches the game can see what crouch brings to the team - and apart from the goals ,his general all round play ,holding possession and general mayhem he causes
is key,two of his flicks today were outstanding.One of them to set up gerrard was superb-if rooney had made it ,gray and tyldsley would be self pleasuring themselves for the rest of the season dreaming of it

The monkey is off his back-if he can add anoter 10 to that total as well as keep up his current standard of play ,ther'll be a lot of happy reds out there

[4tothefloor]

Harry Kewell is looking good as well. Another five games to get the match sharpness back and he'll be banging them in regularly. Thought Finnan's crossing and distribution today was top class, he's really on top of his game lately.

[dfx-]

Reina 8
Warnock 5
Hyypia 7
Carragher 7
Finnan 8
Kewell 8
Gerrard 7
Alonso 8
Garcia 6
Morientes 6
Crouch 7


My man of the match: Kewell. We look a completely different side with him playing as well as he did, flicks and combinations with Morientes opened Wigan up first half....

A dodgy game over with and it wasn't comfortable as the result suggests, but the fact that it wasn't comfortable and we still won 3-0 is the reason for the ratings above. We held out when we had to and scored when we could and looked as threatening as we could. A Crouch double, a great Kewell performance...whatever next - Cissé and Benitez to make up??

[Dillo]

[QUOTE=4tothefloor]Harry Kewell is looking good as well.

I wouldn't be a fan of that ponytail at all 4tothefloor! He looks like a bit of a ponce if you ask me!:p :rolleyes:

And as for that man Peter Crouch? 22 games including internationals without a goal and he comes up with two today against the might of wigan! Can he go on and complete the hattrick tonight in concert square or is that too much to ask for??:) The dolby is waiting and as some of us know it can cater for large numbers...


What a win for the toffees in Ewood and wasn't it fitting on such a historical day for the club! And furthermore what a strike from super Mik Arteta! Moyes has finally instilled that belief back into the squad. The future looks rosy and relegation is no longer an issue. Not that it ever was...

[sligoman]

Crouch scores...once one goes in, another quickly follows.....;) :pYou do know that the first goal went down as an own goal dont ya?;)

[dfx-]

I think not, sir.... (http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N150744051203-1652.htm) :p ;)

[sligoman]

I think not, sir.... (http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N150744051203-1652.htm) :p ;)Liverpool might think so but OFFICIALLY, it was an own goal, SIR!:p

[mypost]

Crouch actually scored a goal today.

:eek: :eek:

As Bishop Brennan said in Father Ted: "The Kracken awakes". :D

1 goal in 5 months. At this rate, his next one is due at Portsmouth in May.

I'll accept he's "arrived" if he scores a hat-trick at Chelsea next week!!

[sligoman]

1 goal in 5 months.1 goal in over 24hours of playing time:eek: :D.

[4tothefloor]

[QUOTE=4tothefloor]......against the might of wigan!
Well they're looking down on ye from a great height :D Evertonians crack me up. Here we are discussing Liverpool's vast improvement, up to third and already qualified in the CL, while Evertonians are banging on about some poncy record that means bo!!ox to anyone with a bit of sense. Football is about trophies and honours, not how many points you've culminated over 100 years......:rolleyes: :p

[JoeSemi]

Garcia's goal was top class too:rolleyes:,lol

Since when do you get points for the quality of your goals?:confused: If those tunnel-visioned Crouch/Liverpool bashers couldn't see that they totally outclassed Wigan yesterday, with a touch to spare, then this thread has amounted to nothing but sh!t stirring on some peoples part. Proper Liverpool fans will take it on the chin because continued begrudgery only results in making some people here look like idiots.

[sligoman]

Since when do you get points for the quality of your goals? If those tunnel-visioned Crouch/Liverpool bashers couldn't see that they totally outclassed Wigan yesterday, with a touch to spare, then this thread has amounted to nothing but sh!t stirring on some peoples part. Proper Liverpool fans will take it on the chin because continued begrudgery only results in making some people here look like idiots.Jaysus what's your problem?:confused:. You dont get any points for quality of goals, didn't you know that?:rolleyes:.

I was just pointing out how it was a funny goal, that's all, calm down man:).

[declan hide]

hey begrudgers...its time for the "look at all the money liverpool have spent" one to be rolled out now :rolleyes:

hes big, hes red, his feet stick out the bed, peter crouch, peter crouch.:p

off down to chavski with you now peter to have jose moaning about long balls. :rolleyes: while completely ignoring the fact thats one of his own 2 tactics.

[anto1208]

at long last he scores , 22 games and 1 goal hopefully he can keep up his scoring rate and finish the season with an impressive 2 or 3 goals .



[quote]off down to chavski with you now peter to have jose moaning about long balls. while completely ignoring the fact thats one of his own 2 tactics.[quote]
:eek: :eek: :eek:

thats funny , how many times has it been claimed on here that liverpool dont play long ball stuff !! the two worse team for long balls are calling each other long ball merchants ...

hello pot this is kettle .............




by the way lads liverpool dont have begrudgers .. when some one says 22 games 1 goal is bad its not begrudgery its a fact .

begrudgery is when a team stays above he all season gets more point than ye did ,yet cant admitt they deserved it .


evertons season has finnally taken off after getting some injuries back , thats 5 games 4 wins

[dfx-]

begrudgery is when a team stays...

:rolleyes: Begrudgery is where you have people who can't accept gradual improvement....like those who said earlier in the season that we were 12th and that that is an indication of the team and manager's ability......comparing 12th after 8 games to 5th after 38. When informed they were not comparing like with like, they insist that 5th and 12th show how we ahve not improved this season. Those who insist that there is really no point in playing the small teams - the big games is all that counts.. Those who can't see the long term gain in the club - can only see the results at the end of the match because they do not understand football. If it finishes 7-0 then we should've won 8-0. If it finishes 0-0 then it was a pathetic performance and twhy didn't they win 12-0, sure it was only Portsmouth/Sunderland/West Ham/Crystal Palace/Crewe Alexandra.:rolleyes:

Everton are crap. Their season's starting - only 4 months into the season....Any chance for Europe lads? :D

[mypost]

Begrudgery is

Not me anyway. You're using the wrong word, which is belittling the side. I call it constructive criticism.


When informed they were not comparing like with like

Is it necessary?? :confused:


they insist that 5th and 12th show how we ahve not improved this season.

At that point, it was true.


Those who insist that there is really no point in playing the small teams - the big games is all that counts.

Exactly. We are not West Brom, Portsmouth, or Sunderland where every game is a battle to beat the drop. We are Liverpool, and against weaker opposition, we're in a no win situation. Win, and all people say is "Yeah, so what :rolleyes: ". Lose, and you get walloped. So the only games that matter to us, are the ones against our direct rivals. So what if we finish 2nd, 3rd, 4th. Apart from a CL place, what use is it? 4th is a sackable offence at this club, ask GH.

In 2002, we finished in 2nd place in the league. Who gives a damn?? People only remember winners, and this club has not won the league championship in a long time. 2nd and below is for the also-rans.


Those who can only see the results at the end of the match because they do not understand football. If it finishes 0-0 then it was a pathetic performance.

At the end of the day, only the latest results count. Not what they were 2 years ago, or in 2 years time, for "development" purposes. What the team does in each game is the finished product, which is the only thing that matters. It's crap to lose in the FA Cup at Burnley, it's crap to lose in the League Cup at Crystal Palace, it's disasterous to be hammered at home by Chelsea. One man is responsible for those defeats, and will be criticised as a result. If the finished product is flawed, which domestically it has been until very recently, then as a fan of the club, I have every right to highlight my dissatisfaction with how things are.

Beating the likes of Portsmouth at home merely papers over the cracks until we run into decent sides, and our problems are exposed. Until such time, as we are able to compete with the big boys, both in individual games and over the season, on a regular basis; the coach, and others if necessary will not escape a mypost-lashing.

[anto1208]

:rolleyes: Begrudgery is where you have people who can't accept gradual improvement....like those who said earlier in the season that we were 12th and that that is an indication of the team and manager's ability......comparing 12th after 8 games to 5th after 38. When informed they were not comparing like with like, they insist that 5th and 12th show how we ahve not improved this season. Those who insist that there is really no point in playing the small teams - the big games is all that counts.. Those who can't see the long term gain in the club - can only see the results at the end of the match because they do not understand football. If it finishes 7-0 then we should've won 8-0. If it finishes 0-0 then it was a pathetic performance and twhy didn't they win 12-0, sure it was only Portsmouth/Sunderland/West Ham/Crystal Palace/Crewe Alexandra.:rolleyes:

Everton are crap. Their season's starting - only 4 months into the season....Any chance for Europe lads?


right so the only liverpool begrudger in your book is mypost a liverpool fan !!!:eek:

your own begrudgery is summed up nicely there by your attack on everton again double standards from liverpool fans