LOI in Europe 2011 [Archive] - Page 34

born2bwild

27/07/2011, 8:56 PM

Its because they have small willies, thats what it all stems from.

Oh ya and getting bullied at school when they were younger, and then needing to set up their own little private members society.

Are those intentional puns?

Please say yes.

@ Bonnieshels - you bollock$, it's not like I can even get back at you by slagging 'your' club.

harleyleeds

27/07/2011, 8:57 PM

That attitude betrays both a lack of ambition and security. I think the challenge should be welcomed with confidence all round.

Dont care what it says about ambition to you it says My team is all that matter to me.

born2bwild

27/07/2011, 8:59 PM

Agreed. Greater competition is the best solution for stagnancy.

Rivalry is a part of football (sport in general, or life even?) worldwide, no? League of Ireland support is very different in many ways to the support you get at grounds in the EPL, if that's what you're referring to. I don't think League of Ireland fans take their cues from those who follow what has essentially become debased to a form of commercial entertainment at all.

Some do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKd9Ai_n_KQ

PartySaint

27/07/2011, 9:05 PM

paul_oshea

27/07/2011, 9:06 PM

Dont care what it says about ambition to you it says My team is all that matter to me.

I think thats his point ;)

paul_oshea

27/07/2011, 9:08 PM

Great performance by Rovers and a good result, It gives me hope for tomorrow, Anything can happen in Tallaght next week but I want Rovers not to go through, Its not an Anti-Rovers thing its just that I don't want any club qualifying for the group stages of a European tournament that isn't Pats

Thats understandable, at least to be the first club. BUt if pats had done it already would you mind rovers doing it?

Here is the PA synopsis, which id largely agree with(apart from the disappointing bit but as a "complete" outsider its probably true)

"Solvi Ottesen scored the only goal of the game early on for FC Copenhagen to decide the first leg of the Champions League third qualifying round clash with Shamrock Rovers.

However the slender defeat in the Danes' Parken home gives the Irish outfit a strong chance of getting back into the tie next Tuesday at the Tallaght Stadium in Dublin.

Centre-back Ottesen netted with a header from close range in the fourth minute after FC Copenhagen forced a corner. Stephen Rice and captain Gary Twigg threatened to pullShamrock level in the second half but the home side remained marginally on top in a largely disappointing match, and Rovers were thankful for a pair of decent saves from Ryan Thompson."

DannyInvincible

27/07/2011, 9:10 PM

Dont care what it says about ambition to you it says My team is all that matter to me.

But your team would probably benefit in the long term. Why bother competing at all without ambition? Your club's success is always judged against the standard of its opponents, so of course other teams still matter, if not mattering to you emotionally. You may as well be competing in the Sligo/Leitrim District League and you can win every game you like there if you're not bothered about improving your lot and playing at as high a standard as possible in the long run. Sure what else could ever matter so long as you're always winning?...

PartySaint

27/07/2011, 9:10 PM

Thats understandable, at least to be the first club. BUt if pats had done it already would you mind rovers doing it?

"

I was thinking that as I was typing, I'm not sure, If we were to make it this year I wouldn't mind another Irish club getting there, If we are not there then I don't want anyone to have fun

harleyleeds

27/07/2011, 9:13 PM

I think thats his point ;)

Yes paul i get it but if you have a club (and i suspect u dont) why would you want someone else to get an advantage over your team? Also I see no benefit to shams becoming Irelands answer to Celtic or Linfield and running away with everything every year.

harleyleeds

27/07/2011, 9:17 PM

But your team would probably benefit in the long term. Why bother competing at all without ambition? Your club's success is always judged against the standard of its opponents, so of course other teams still matter, if not mattering to you emotionally. You may as well be competing in the Sligo/Leitrim District League and you can win every game you like there if you're not bothered about improving your lot and playing at as high a standard as possible in the long run. Sure what else could ever matter so long as you're always winning?...

No long term benefit in it and your making my point with Your club's success is always judged against the standard of its opponents cos if they get millions then they are away and next year more just like celtic/rangers

harleyleeds

27/07/2011, 9:19 PM

for the record i watched the game and thought Shams did really well and do not begrudge them that for their hard work .

redarmyfaction

27/07/2011, 9:21 PM

Its a double edged sword you want LOI clubs to do well in Europe, but you dont want those clubs to dominate domesticly as a consequence.

I think I am not alone among LOI supporters to have lost most interest in the EPL years ago, soul destroying now, I remember the Big Match ended just in time for us to nip down to the Showgs, dont you hate it when the things you love are adopted and therefore devalued by the ignorant.

DannyInvincible

27/07/2011, 9:24 PM

No long term benefit in it and your making my point with Your club's success is always judged against the standard of its opponents cos if they get millions then they are away and next year more just like celtic/rangers

Well, I guess it depends on what level you want to be competing at ultimately. So long as you're content to have no ambition and wallow in mediocrity, we're singing from a different hymn sheet. If someone sets the pace it naturally spurs others on to compete and rise to the challenge. I don't see how anyone could seriously object to having to rise to the challenge of increased competition in sport.

harleyleeds

27/07/2011, 9:31 PM

Well, I guess it depends on what level you want to be competing at ultimately. So long as you're content to have no ambition and wallow in mediocrity, we're singing from a different hymn sheet. If someone sets the pace it naturally spurs others on to compete and rise to the challenge. I don't see how anyone could seriously object to having to rise to the challenge increased competition in sport.

Unless all teams get alot of money the level wont get better no matter who sets the pace again look at scotland. Im not wallowing in anything Sligo Rovers are getting better as a club all the time and its got nothing to do with any money gained by shams or anyone else. What challange if one team has 5 million to spend over all others? PS Rovers are top of the league nothing mediocre about that.

paul_oshea

27/07/2011, 9:32 PM

I think the point is they do want to see increased competition and at a higher level but in a laddering effect(see investopedia) as opposed to one sharp incline. They want it gradually, but to be honest i think the way LOI teams have been competing this year and the last few years it has been more gradual, and assuming everything keeps going the way it is, in the next few years within 4 possibly, and a bit of luck that breakthrough will be made, with the Europa league most likely. There may well be a sharp turn there though, but if most clubs are competitive up until that point, its not to say the same club will keep winning, as they could lose the league title the following year, and it paves the way for the other Domestic winner to get into the position too etc, increasing the circle.....

From a business point of view, its not something to be feared, it should be embraced. But business and sport for fans don't ever mix well.

PartySaint

27/07/2011, 9:33 PM

Well, I guess it depends on what level you want to be competing at ultimately. So long as you're content to have no ambition and wallow in mediocrity, we're singing from a different hymn sheet. If someone sets the pace it naturally spurs others on to compete and rise to the challenge. I don't see how anyone could seriously object to having to rise to the challenge of increased competition in sport.

If a team got to the group stages of Europe it would mean lots of money, They only way others could compete is to get lots of money and unless your mypost everyone knows that doesn't grow on trees, Its right for fans of clubs to not want other club(s) getting into the group stages of a European competition

harleyleeds

27/07/2011, 9:35 PM

But business and sport for fans don't ever mix well.

truest words ever

Kingdom

27/07/2011, 9:41 PM

If a team got to the group stages of Europe it would mean lots of money, They only way others could compete is to get lots of money and unless your mypost everyone knows that doesn't grow on trees, Its right for fans of clubs to not want other club(s) getting into the group stages of a European competition

Genuine question here.
Say Rovers get to the group stages of the el. They get lots of money (colossal by loi standards). What is the fear? Is it that they'll cherry pick the best players in the league, or that they'll bring in top class (by loi standards) players from further afield?

Surely there are only so many players they can cherry-pick within the league anyway?

paul_oshea

27/07/2011, 9:47 PM

But business and sport for fans don't ever mix well.

truest words ever

But sometimes they need to, there are two extremes one horrible being the whole commercialism of the EPL. Thats for another day.

But there is a happy medium, and certainly LOI sides aren't near the medium yet. The simplest answer is more exposure to the league will indirectly increase all commercial streams, and if exposed wisely by all concerned will generate more money for all clubs. More exposure comes from playing bigger teams(as we have seen in the past) and more often(getting to the group stages). Now its up to individual clubs to use that however they see fit, but any innovative members of the clubs will/would find ways. In the meantime it will give quick wins financially(gains) to the club(s) that get to that stage. But other clubs can more than capitalise on this. Its just narrow-minded/insecure/parish politics/ignorant but most importantly insular and naive to not want this to happen. Its your club yes, but it can be other peoples club too. You don't own the club, you don't have sole right over it.

Jicked

27/07/2011, 9:51 PM

if Shams qualify for group it means a sh**load of money for them so screw the coefficiant

It means a ****load of money for the league. Attitudes like yours just shows how nearsighted so many people are in Irish football, at every level. If we, or anyone else did make it a group stage, you're talking about millions being pumped in to the domestic game. Remember, we can't sign everyone, but you will see advertising increased across the league, ticket sales go up everywhere Rovers play after barstoolers get to know the players, more games being picked for TV, bringing a higher profile and more money etc.

It was very encouraging to hear our chairman talk after the last leg. Where most directors might be rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of another cheque, Rochey made it pretty clear that just as big a prize was the fact we'd play 4 more games, and so be all over the media for four more weeks, increasing the profile of the club and bringing in all the various spin-offs that entails. It was nice to see someone look a little bit further ahead.

harleyleeds

27/07/2011, 9:53 PM

But sometimes they need to, there are two extremes one horrible being the whole commercialism of the EPL. Thats for another day.

But there is a happy medium, and certainly LOI sides aren't near the medium yet. The simplest answer is more exposure to the league will indirectly increase all commercial streams, and if exposed wisely by all concerned will generate more money for all clubs. More exposure comes from playing bigger teams(as we have seen in the past) and more often(getting to the group stages). Now its up to individual clubs to use that however they see fit, but any innovative members of the clubs will/would find ways. In the meantime it will give quick wins financially(gains) to the club(s) that get to that stage. But other clubs can more than capitalise on this. Its just narrow-minded/insecure/parish politics/ignorant but most importantly insular and naive to not want this to happen. Its your club yes, but it can be other peoples club too. You don't own the club, you don't have sole right over it.

look id love all teams to get an injection of cash but untill it happens i dont want any team to get so much as to demolish the rest as i feel this would actually be bad for the league as all the rest of the teams would end up like galway and the interest in the league would actually suffer.

paul_oshea

27/07/2011, 9:57 PM

But thats the point, im not so sure it would happen. If other people saw rival clubs playing the interest in the league would certainly increase, but its then up to the individual clubs to appeal to those people to come watch their team. You cant just sit in your room and curse people or whatever because they don't come down. Entice them and they will, sometimes it has to start like that unfortunately. Build it and they will come....

harleyleeds

27/07/2011, 9:58 PM

It means a ****load of money for the league. Attitudes like yours just shows how nearsighted so many people are in Irish football, at every level. If we, or anyone else did make it a group stage, you're talking about millions being pumped in to the domestic game. Remember, we can't sign everyone, but you will see advertising increased across the league, ticket sales go up everywhere Rovers play after barstoolers get to know the players, more games being picked for TV, bringing a higher profile and more money etc.

It was very encouraging to hear our chairman talk after the last leg. Where most directors might be rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of another cheque, Rochey made it pretty clear that just as big a prize was the fact we'd play 4 more games, and so be all over the media for four more weeks, increasing the profile of the club and bringing in all the various spin-offs that entails. It was nice to see someone look a little bit further ahead.
What does that mean , that everyone would pay to see the great shams team that this money would buy and this money from the two games a season against you would bring the rest up? Other than that where is the money for the league coming from? Nearsighted i dont think so.

harleyleeds

27/07/2011, 10:02 PM

mypost

27/07/2011, 10:03 PM

It doesn't matter who the first, the fifth, the twenty-second, or the 45th club to make the group stages are. It's nice to be first, but it doesn't matter that much in the long run.

As for the money we get: People said we'd get a load of cash against Real Madrid, and we had a competitive league. People said we'd get a load of cash against Juventus, and we had a competitive league. People said we'd get a load of cash from this, and it's a competitive league. Most of the money we earn should we win, will have to be forked out on arrangements for later rounds, including finding another ground for them.

You saw their club's reaction after the game, they're worried and frustrated at the result, and so they should be. They know they're in a ding-dong cup tie now, and if they're going to go through, they'll have to work very hard over here. We're still underdogs, but far from out of our depth at this level. We're 90 minutes from a group stage, bring it on.

paul_oshea

27/07/2011, 10:05 PM

OK I just have to disagree and continue to use scotland as an example it hasnt happened there.

Its a different scenario there, and i think thats pretty obvious. Rangers and Celtic have a huge fanbase and always have had to start with. Interest from not just ireland but all over the world. The whole sectarian thing worked wonders for them and as they were two clubs of the biggest city in scotland they were always going to be an elite, and they always have been. That would not be the case for a LOI club qualifying, as no club in ireland has a huge following anyway.

Norway would be a better example, but for a few years rosenborg were getting into the CL regularly, not so much now.

Kingdom

27/07/2011, 10:11 PM

We're 90 minutes from a group stage, bring it on.

That's really what it's all about. It's brilliant to read that.

paul_oshea

27/07/2011, 10:22 PM

Ya it is, but any team are always 90 mins away from a group stage when they are in the CL qualifying round 3 with the 2nd leg left to play.....that makes no odds.

Being 1-0 down just means its more difficult than being 0-0 or 1-1 or 2- 1 or 0-1 etc and less difficult than 2-0 or 3-1 etc etc....

If they were 0-1 up already then ya that statement would make for great reading, in the current situation it means nothing really.

HulaHoop

27/07/2011, 10:25 PM

All this nonsense about how a team would dominate for years if they got the millions in prize money from getting to the group stages is very annoying. Obviously none of you remember the last 10 or so years when we had Shelbourne spending millions, Cork spending millions, Drogheda spending millions, Bohs spending millions and even Pats spent a few million when Kellegher took over. Now did any of these dominate forever? No they didn't, they all won leagues alright but dominate - no. If Rovers or any club get to the groups stages in europe the resulting prize money would have no more of an effect on us than it did when Shels/Bohs/Drogheda/Cork/Pats had millions pumped into them over the last decade. The only difference being we might spend the money more wisely than the other clubs did.

paul_oshea

27/07/2011, 10:27 PM

Just like Rosenborg, its all only temporary. Its tunnel vision (not being able to see outside of the box and the bigger picture)and very shortsighted as has been pointed out by DI and others(:))

BonnieShels

27/07/2011, 10:28 PM

Paul, put down the manbag and be positive.

GalwayRed

27/07/2011, 10:50 PM

BonnieShels

27/07/2011, 11:04 PM

I'd be positive about their EL prospects after tonight if nothing else.

mypost

27/07/2011, 11:10 PM

I thought Rovers were excellent tonight. It would have been easy to buckle after conceding so early. It does make me wonder why they cant perform like this in the league more often. I would fancy Copenhagen to nick a goal in Tallaght but its all to play for. Rovers will be disappointed not getting an away goal out of that performance though.

Copenhagen were "fancied" to hockey us tonight. They were "fancied" to get more after 4 minutes. They were "fancied" to score after half time. Instead they were frustrated, booed off their own pitch, and knowing they hadn't simply bulldozed their way through. And they won't in Tallaght either.

kdjaC

27/07/2011, 11:18 PM

So heroic defeat or actual chance of progessing?

We get our asses handed to us morrow night, would prefer a raping than a heroic defeat.

mypost

27/07/2011, 11:23 PM

Fair play to Rovers, they didn't seem overawed and had chances of their own.
An away goal would have been great, makes the second leg harder, still though, they're still well in the tie after the first leg, and that's all anyone wishing them well would have hooped for.
Early goal next week should make for great sport.

Re: the away goal. It's not a disaster, it only matters in the event of a level aggregate score at the end next week. We're capable of getting 3 if needed, if we get one of them early on.

I certainly would have taken the current scoreline after 4 minutes, it's very much Game On.

TheBoss

27/07/2011, 11:24 PM

The most important part about playing 2 legged games is you are still in the tie after the 1st game, and Rovers have achieved this, so it is a good result.

BonnieShels

27/07/2011, 11:26 PM

On the basis of tonight you would have to say chance of progressing. In reality a heroic defeat.

Turner back for the Tallaght leg isn't he?

Have to say the difference that McCabe made when he came on was quite something. Completely shored up the midfield and allowed better quality supply to get to Billy.

Chiefscout

27/07/2011, 11:29 PM

The most important part about playing 2 legged games is you are still in the tie after the 1st game, and Rovers have achieved this, so it is a good result.

They will get hammered in second leg.

PartySaint

27/07/2011, 11:31 PM

So heroic defeat or actual chance of progessing?

We get our asses handed to us morrow night, would prefer a raping than a heroic defeat.

Em you're crazy, Much prefer a heroic defeat tomorrow, Then we can get a good crowd for our hammering in the second leg:)

peadar1987

27/07/2011, 11:35 PM

It'll be difficult, but Rovers are very, very hard to score against in Tallaght, and the stadium will be packed and bouncing. I think they have a real chance of at least taking it to extra time and penalties in front of their own fans, and if it comes down to that, anything can happen.

Anyway, I'm hoping Rovers can pull off the seemingly impossible over the next few weeks, and make this map of countries who have reached the CL Group Stages slightly less embarrassing:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/UEFA_members_Champs_League_group_stage.png

DannyInvincible

27/07/2011, 11:39 PM

Have the Belfast Telegraph always referred to Rovers as "Shamrock"?: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/shamrock-suffer-narrow-defeat-16028827.html

PartySaint

27/07/2011, 11:39 PM

F*cking Kazakhstan!!!

Charlie Darwin

28/07/2011, 12:05 AM

I had to miss the second half because I was working, but from the sound of the comments on here and my brother's report, Rovers were really impressive in the second half and should have got an away goal. Buzzing for Tallaght next week.

p.s. anyone who thinks Rovers qualifying for the Europa groups would lead to a Shams domination of the LOI is an idiot.

born2bwild

28/07/2011, 1:50 AM

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/6269/so-exactly-who-are-vorskla-poltava/

Extratime have come to similar conclusions to mine earlier in this thread. That Markoski fella really needs seeing to.
I really think Sligo can do it.
Set pieces - dodgy centre halves and 'keeper.

L.T.F.C.

28/07/2011, 4:30 AM

Copenhagen were "fancied" to hockey us tonight. They were "fancied" to get more after 4 minutes. They were "fancied" to score after half time. Instead they were frustrated, booed off their own pitch, and knowing they hadn't simply bulldozed their way through. And they won't in Tallaght either.
World against you bullsh*t again is it?

micls

28/07/2011, 4:38 AM

Did Dan Murray play? He's fantastic at scoring in Europe, scored for us every year we played in Europe and is our all time top scorer in Europe with 5. Tends to bang them in when it matters too, like the CL game in Cyprus.

Would throw a few euro on him scoring in Tallaght if he plays.