LOI in Europe 2011

[legendz]

They showed the game against Juve at the 3rd round stage last year. Maybe it's from there they'll cover the games? I agree though, they should have shown the games.

[bullit]

Didn't RTE show some English club in a qualifier a few years ago and a game they covered on a LoI club in Europe had the better viewing figures? Why the need to have a go at RTE though, there are other broadcasters as well...
TV3'S interest in anything LOI went out the window a long time ago and more since they started up an alliance with ITV to show all their main stable programmes such as Coronation st,the x factor etc...
And there is no way that TG4 would take the gamble.

[born2bwild]

Great night in Inchicore. Second goal by Pat's was a lovely finish. Danny North is moany and unfit.

[Dodge]

we can always rely on pats!

;)


Danny North is moany and unfit.
He's just back form injury


They showed the game against Juve at the 3rd round stage last year. Maybe it's from there they'll cover the games? I agree though, they should have shown the games.

They showed that game because it was Juventus. Pats beat the Rusians in Rd 3 and it wasn't on TV. We played Steaua in the play offs and it was the only tie (in eother week) that wasn't shown on live TV

Great night in Inchicore. Irish sides have won through 2 rounds 7 times in total. pats have done it the last 3 times they've entered Europe.

[TonyD]

Yeah, super stuff from Pats. Very disciplined and kept the ball well at times. Reasonably comfortable at the back too. Kargandy had one great chance that went just wide but that was about it. Pats had two peno shouts turned down and Stephen Bradley brought a great save from their keeper with a free kick. Magic night. Hard to see us beating the Ukranians, but hey, you never know. Pity we can't play the next round in Richmond.

[thischarmingman]

Long story short is:

Overall a good week for Irish football.

These kind of weeks don't happen that often, and while no-one is resting on their laurels, it's still a week that should be savoured.

Also, if Shams, Sligo and Pats all want to get tangled up in Euro games to the possible detriment of their domestic campaigns, all the better :)

[Dodge]

Also, if Shams, Sligo and Pats all want to get tangled up in Euro games to the possible detriment of their domestic campaigns, all the better :)

I'm starting a rival website

"we play on thursdays"

[thischarmingman]

I'm starting a rival website

"we play on thursdays"

In fairness that's where it's all going on these days. All the top clubs hang out mid-week, not tomorrow.

[Dodge]

Oh I see what you did there. Enjoy the Super Cup

[nigel-harps1954]

A great week all round for the clubs as said. Good for the league and good for the respective clubs. Disappointed for Bohs but I don't think anyone really expected them to win. Is the next round next week?

[Dodge]

http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1105541

Goals from about 17:20 there

[swinfordfc]

Lads,

Thats another 8 matches for Irish clubs in Europe this year at least ..... not often you can say that ....... well done to all involved

[nigel-harps1954]

http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1105541

Goals from about 17:20 there

Holy jesus thats a horrible own goal by O'Brien

[mypost]

Coefficient point to date is 1.000, with 3 clubs remaining in competition. Hopefully another few points can be added.

[cornflakes]

Here's a table of the current Coefficient's (http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2012.html) for this year. We're a bit behind some countries for this year but have three teams left, others have better ratings so far but have less teams still in

[bennocelt]

Went to see Fulhams training game V crusaders - weird looking at a game but when your mind is elsewhere - WELL DONE PATS

[Charlie Darwin]

My God, what a terrible own goal from O'Brien. Delighted for Pat's - sounds like they did it in comfortable enough style too.

[JC_GUFC]

Hard to see us beating the Ukranians, but hey, you never know. Pity we can't play the next round in Richmond.

I wouldn't say that, you definitely wouldn't be favourites but one of either Sligo or Pat's will hopefully qualify.

Karpaty Lviv finished 5th in the Ukrainian league last season and Vorskla finished 6th. Vorskla were 26 points behind the CL qualifying spots but only 12 points above the 2 relegation places.

In Europe last season they beat an Icelandic side 6-2 on aggregate, a Georgian side 2-0 and then Galatasaray on away goals. In the group stages they only managed 1 point. Given the total imbalance of the Ukrainian league (becoming like the SPL) I would imagine a lot of their decent players from last season would have left.

[DannyInvincible]

Karpaty Lviv

Their sub keeper is the guy who was in goals for Macedonia against Ireland in Skopje; Martin Bogatinov. That is the sum of my knowledge on Karpaty Lviv.

[KianD]

Here's a table of the current Coefficient's (http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2012.html) for this year. We're a bit behind some countries for this year but have three teams left, others have better ratings so far but have less teams still in

What strikes me there is that one of the Scottish teams needs to pull off something spectacular this year or they're going to crash down the rankings and ending up with much the same entry position as we have...

Which would be delightful when dealing with SPL barstoolers :D

[ger121]

What strikes me there is that one of the Scottish teams needs to pull off something spectacular this year or they're going to crash down the rankings and ending up with much the same entry position as we have...

Which would be delightful when dealing with SPL barstoolers :D

Well it won't be Dundee Utd! The list for 2013 has them provisionally at 29, which is 4 places ahead of us. I'm sure that's not where they will end up but still shows the decline in Scottish football

[legendz]

SPL generally have a club or two in group stages and pick up the points to compensate a team losing out early. It's the way they've built their coefficient. Some players 42 week contracts mightn't be enough if their clubs happen to pull off a group stage berth.

[DannyInvincible]

What strikes me there is that one of the Scottish teams needs to pull off something spectacular this year or they're going to crash down the rankings and ending up with much the same entry position as we have...

Yeah, if SPL clubs continue their current vein of form in Europe, the league's ranking could well slip down to 25th or lower in Europe by 2013: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2013.html

St. Pat's are actually ranked ahead of Hibs at present: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2012.html

Elsewhere, TV3 have confirmed they'll be broadcasting the Copenhagen-Rovers game live.

Not the Irish TV3, of course. I mean the Danish TV3 (http://liveonsat.com/LJ_foot_uefa_CL.php#).

[DannyInvincible]

SPL generally have a club or two in group stages and pick up the points to compensate a team losing out early. It's the way they've built their coefficient. Some players 42 week contracts mightn't be enough if their clubs happen to pull off a group stage berth.

The SPL's current position (16th in Europe) is more or less reliant on Rangers' having made their way to the UEFA Cup final in 2007-08. It was a rather exceptional performance, in the strictest meaning of the term, compared to performances of Scottish clubs since. Scottish clubs, including Rangers and Celtic, have done relatively very little for the SPL's co-efficient since that. If you were to take an average of Scottish clubs' performances in Europe for the last three years (1.875, 2.666 and 3.600) and included that value (2.714) as a predicted total for this year's tally (0.250 so far with three out of four teams still left in competition), as well as replacing the 2007-08 tally (10.250) with that average for the sake of gauging where current form would leave the SPL, it would leave it with a total co-efficient of 13.568 for five seasons. If we were to place that in last season's table covering five complete seasons of performances in European competition for every league in Europe, the SPL would be ranked in 29th position. If we were to slot it into this season's as-of-yet-incomplete table it would slot in at 28th with two Serbian teams (the Serbian league has a current co-efficient of 13.500 and is ranked 29th) still to play further fixtures. The League of Ireland is ranked 33rd with three out of four teams still to play further games. Admittedly, I've manipulated the figures a bit, but it provides an interesting perspective.

[paul_oshea]

That bohs goal reminds me of many similar mistakes made under fenlons teams in Europe(only talking about europe in this paragraph..:)) in years gone by. Makes me wonder if its how he sets out his stall and what he instills in his players for the games....perhaps they are somewhat uptight and uneasy and unsure, therefore these simple mistakes are being made through panic and fear. One wonders also, given that they seemed to be the better team at home should they have done more away....again something that fenlon always seems to do, gives too much respect to the opposition away from home. I can understand this to an extent when you cant afford to go over and see them play before or dont get enough games on DVD or whatever, but surely over a half an astute manager can figure this stuff out.

Pats surely would feel confident with an away game first, if they got a score draw or even a score loss, getting them back to Dublin and doing what was required, assuming not a 3-1 or 4-1 loss...

[legendz]

The league has achieved the minimum I hoped for. 2 or 3 clubs in round 3 of one or both competitions and at least 1 club in the play-offs. Anything else from here will be a bonus. I'm hopeful one of Pat's or Sligo will make the play-offs. If both can, it'll be fantastic.

[Straightstory]

Great game at Richmond Park. Hard luck Bohs.

[punkrocket]

Pity we can't play the next round in Richmond

So where's it likely to be The RDS?
Can Sligo play the next game at the Showgorunds?

[passinginterest]

So where's it likely to be The RDS?
Can Sligo play the next game at the Showgorunds?

Great result for Pat's and good to see a decent performance from Bohs too. Hopefully the positivity will continue in the next round.

Pat's are using Tallaght going by Pete Mahon's interview on the radio this morning.

[Kingdom]

Delighted for Pats, hard luck to Bohs, pity they didn't get the win they deserved by all accounts given they won't be in Europe for a while, would've been a nice way to sign out. Still at least they got something for the co-efficient.

As for the rest of the clubs, Pats and Sligo are more than capable of getting positive results at home, Pats have shown this time and again in Europe, whereas Sligo by the sounds of it are suited to playing in Europe with the type of game they've developed. I wouldn't be as pessimistic as others, I think they both have a great chance more so now they are away first.
Rovers are up against it, Copenhagen are as serious a Non-star team as they could have got. They'll need to work hard over there first. Here's hoping!

Where will Pats play L'vov? Will be looking to bring the young fella to his first match.
Edit just saw PI's post - Tallaght, nice one.
Out of interest what is the failing in Richmond that is preventing it from hosting 3rd round games and on? Is there that much of a difference between it and the Showgrounds?

[Hibs4Ever]

Where will Pats play L'vov? Will be looking to bring the young fella to his first match.



SDCC have offered St Pats the use of their stadium so that's being negotiated at moment

[paul_oshea]

I think there is an uncertainty there from both sides to be fair. I don't think anyone is really versed on Ukranian football bar what they see from the bigger teams in the CL/latter stages Europa league. IT could be another Scotland or it might not be. Either way a 5-0 win against Glentoran is still very comfortable, pre-season or not.

[paul_oshea]

SDCC have offered St Pats the use of their stadium so that's being negotiated at moment

Are Rovers allow to sub-lease, how exactly does this work? I mean if they charge a one-off fee do the council say we want some of that.

[Dodge]

Are Rovers allow to sub-lease, how exactly does this work? I mean if they charge a one-off fee do the council say we want some of that.

Council get all of it. As they do from Setanta Cup final and underage games.

Rovers themselves pay a fortune for rent there

[paul_oshea]

Really? Thats sh1te, but i suppose they envisaged that, the council i mean on providing the lease, smart bit of business for once from a council.

I gather though any maintenance work etc(i dont mean grass cutting or lining the pitch) is carried out and paid for by the Council?

[Dodge]

Yeah. I think the stadium website says something like "owned for and operated by SDCC"

They have a fair bit of stuff there (they even turfed Rovers out a couple of years ago to get ready for the Real madrid friendly)

[DannyInvincible]

Great result for Pat's and good to see a decent performance from Bohs too. Hopefully the positivity will continue in the next round.

Pat's are using Tallaght going by Pete Mahon's interview on the radio this morning.

Interview with Mahon here: http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/6222/mahon-pats-move-game-tallaght/

Tallaght, Thomond Park and Lansdowne were aired as possible ideas for an acceptable venue. According to Mahon, the RDS wasn't suitable, although he wasn't sure why exactly. I think they're going with Tallaght. Probably for the best.


Out of interest what is the failing in Richmond that is preventing it from hosting 3rd round games and on? Is there that much of a difference between it and the Showgrounds?

Capacity is certainly one factor, although why the Showgrounds could be granted an exception but Richmond Park not, I'm not sure. And surely the RDS would have the requisite capacity as well. There are other factors such as medical and media facilities to be taken into account also, if memory serves me right.

[Dodge]

I think the RDS was out due to the Horseshow

[pineapple stu]

There are other factors such as medical and media facilities to be taken into account also, if memory serves me right.
Wasn't floodlights a major problem? Weren't strong enough.

[legendz]

Karpaty 18:30 St Patrick's (7.30 pm Irish time)
Referee: Martin Strömbergsson (SWE) – Stadium: Ukrayina Stadion, Lviv (UKR)

Vorskla 19:00 Sligo (8pm Irish time)
Referee: Gediminas Mažeika (LTU) – Stadium: Vorskla, Poltava (UKR)

Irish clubs are having a good bit of luck having the first leg away.

[Spudulika]

Tallaght is a better fit. They'd fill the ground but not the RDS. Good night for Ireland, sad for Bohs, but it goes to show how much easier it is for Irish teams to progress thanks to the collapse of the Iron Curtain. Normally a win against a Maltese/Finnish/Cypriot/Icelandic side would mean a tie against some mammoth side and an exit. At least now clubs can win a couple of rounds.

[paul_oshea]

Wasn't floodlights a major problem? Weren't strong enough.

With all their impressive runs in Europe, you'd think they would have sorted out a few lights at this stage with appropriate wattage ;)

I think there is exits/seating/terraces/facilities(media/medical etc) all these sorta things to consider too, there is a website Dodge or someone put up before that listed the different rounds and required infrastructure.

The thing with sligo from what i remember reading, was that to get an exemption they had to increase seating, pitch size had to be increased, but i think the more important thing was actually getting the exemption from UEFA and the amount of time it took to get it. Maybe there just isn't time for St Pats(and make any appropriate changes/planning)?

[Dodge]

Karpaty 18:30 St Patrick's (7.30 pm Irish time)
Referee: Martin Strömbergsson (SWE) – Stadium: Ukrayina Stadion, Lviv (UKR)


Those times are wrong. its 7.30pm locla time, which is 5.30pm Irish time

[DannyInvincible]

I think there is an uncertainty there from both sides to be fair. I don't think anyone is really versed on Ukranian football bar what they see from the bigger teams in the CL/latter stages Europa league. IT could be another Scotland or it might not be. Either way a 5-0 win against Glentoran is still very comfortable, pre-season or not.

Glentoran had quite a few players out due to work commitments. Ciarán Martyn didn't travel for that reason, for example. Possibly some were even still on holiday. That's fairly common for competing Irish League sides. Fair enough, that's the reality of the Irish League game and they'll say they're in their "pre-season" - as if European competition doesn't count - but it's distinctly amateurish. This (somewhat amusing) interview with Lisburn Distillery manager Jimmy Brown in 2009 provides an insight into what one could only describe as a rather shambolic and disorganised approach for the club's game against Zestafoni of Georgia that year: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/northern_ireland/8129118.stm


Lisburn Distillery will be without a string of key players as when they face Georgian side FC Zestafoni in the Europa League on Thursday.

Striker Glenn Ferguson, just signed from Linfield, and goalkeeper Philip Matthews are on holidays.

Peter McCann, Mark Patton and Neal Gawley are also away.

"It does not help but we are going to give it our best shot. We do not want to let the Irish League down," said new Distillery manager Jimmy Brown.

"It is difficult for a part-time team against full-timers, and we are just back to training.

Even the merits of participation itself were questioned. Failure was inevitable with such an ill-prepared, pessimistic and defeatist approach.

If you listen to the Mahon interview I posted above, it'll demonstrate the contrasting attitude and mentality with which League of Ireland clubs approach these ties. They're not merely exotic side-shows or exercises in keeping scorelines down. They're taken very seriously and Mahon mentions a few players in the St. Pat's squad having to cancel provisionally-planned holidays. Merely taking part is not tolerated as acceptable. Individual players not taking part at all is simply out of the question.

[DannyInvincible]

Wasn't floodlights a major problem? Weren't strong enough.

Yeah, I believe that's another criteria UEFA take into account. I'm sure it's in the competition rules and regulations. I'll have a look in a bit.

[Rasputin]

Many Pats fans heading over?
Might see yee in Kiev.

[paul_oshea]

You know, I know several lads involved at GAA clubs that don't book their holidays around the master fixtures list, so that they don't clash, some do and if they do they are re-imbursed by the club generally, or the flights are changed and they get paid for those new flights. I gather the clubs would do something similar, but surely these lads are aware of this when booking which again shows a slight amateur approach to things or maybe an approach ah well if we get there ill be happy to have to change things. Still its a far better approach than IL sides.

Mahon sounded pessimistic in all his other interviews that i heard/read.

It definitely brings focus and attention to the league when they progress, and i think they realise that too.

[Dodge]

You know, I know several lads involved at GAA clubs that don't book their holidays around the master fixtures list, so that they don't clash, some do and if they do they are re-imbursed by the club generally, or the flights are changed and they get paid for those new flights. I gather the clubs would do something similar, but surely these lads are aware of this when booking which again shows a slight amateur approach to things or maybe an approach ah well if we get there ill be happy to have to change things

Well the lads have one weekend in the summer off in the league. next weekend. They booked the holidays kowing they'd be cancelled if we won through 2 rounds in europe. Absolutely no problem with that

[DannyInvincible]

Here are the Regulations of the Europa League 2011/12: http://kassiesa.net/uefafiles/2011-12-uefa-el-rules.pdf

The section relating to stadiums and facilities is in article 13 of part VIII on page 18.


VIII Stadiums and Match Organisation

Article 13

Stadium categories

13.01 Unless stipulated otherwise in these regulations, matches in the competition must be played in a stadium which meets the structural criteria of the following categories as defined in the UEFA Stadium Infrastructure Regulations (2010 edition):


a) category 2 for the first and second qualifying rounds;
b) category 3 for the third qualifying round and play-offs;
c) category 4 from the group stage to the semi-finals;

The final must be played in a stadium which meets the structural criteria as defined in the staging agreement.

Exceptions to a structural criterion

13.02 The UEFA administration may grant an exception to a specific structural criterion for the stadium category in question in cases of particular hardship and upon reasoned request, for instance owing to the current national legislation or if the fulfilment of all the required criteria would force a club to play its home matches on the territory of another association. An exception can be granted for one or more matches in the competition or for the whole duration of the competition. Such decisions are final.

Stadium certificate and safety requirements

13.03 Each association on whose territory matches in the competition will be played is responsible for:


a) inspecting every stadium concerned and issuing stadium certificates, which have to be forwarded to the UEFA administration, confirming that the stadiums meet the structural criteria of the required stadium category;
b) confirming to the UEFA administration that the stadiums, including their facilities (emergency lighting system, first aid facilities, type of protection against intrusion by spectators into the playing area, etc.), have been thoroughly inspected by the competent public authorities and meet all the safety requirements laid down by the applicable national law.

13.04 The UEFA administration accepts or rejects the stadiums on the basis of the above certificate and confirmation. Such decisions are final.

...

Pitch conditions

13.06 The home club must make every reasonable effort to ensure that the pitch is in the best possible condition for play. If the climatic conditions so require, facilities such as pitch heating must be provided, to ensure that the field of play can be made available in a suitable condition on any match date. If the home club does not implement the appropriate measures and, as a consequence, the match cannot take place, the home club bears all the costs of the visiting team (travel, board and lodging expenses).

13.07 If deemed necessary by the referee or a UEFA match officer, the home club may be requested to reduce the height of the grass for the match and training sessions.

...

Floodlights

13.12 Qualifying matches may be played in daylight or under floodlights. From the group stage onwards, matches must be played under floodlights. The light average must correspond to minimum horizontal and vertical illuminance levels of 1,400 lux towards for the main camera(s) and 1,000 lux towards areas of secondary interest.

13.13 Clubs must ensure that floodlighting installations are maintained and provide UEFA with a valid lighting certificate issued within the previous 12 months. UEFA may conduct an independent assessment of lighting levels in stadiums and will notify the clubs in good time of the results of such assessments and of any corrections to be made.

There are other sections on stadium clocks, giant screens and retractable roofs.

The UEFA Stadium Infrastructure Regulations outline the distinctions in stadium category more specifically: http://www.fai.ie/PDF/UEFAStadiumInfrastructureRegulations2010.PDF

The main differences are set out here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_stadium_categories#Main_differences_between_c ategories

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/stadiumcriteria.png

I also see clubs have to pay UEFA a fee of €200 in order to compete. It's such a measly amount, the idea of the likes of Barcelona or Real Madrid sending UEFA off a cheque in the post for €200 amuses me.

[paul_oshea]

"13.12 Qualifying matches may be played in daylight or under floodlights. From the group stage onwards, matches must be played under floodlights. The light average must correspond to minimum horizontal and vertical illuminance levels of 1,400 lux towards for the main camera(s) and 1,000 lux towards areas of secondary interest.

13.13 Clubs must ensure that floodlighting installations are maintained and provide UEFA with a valid lighting certificate issued within the previous 12 months. UEFA may conduct an independent assessment of lighting levels in stadiums and will notify the clubs in good time of the results of such assessments and of any corrections to be made.
"

Interesting, in the height of summer in Ireland, or for example sligo, up until at least early September if a game started at 7 or 7.15 there is more than enough light. BUt im aware that UEFA have to be across the board here...