Potentially eligible players thread

[Olé Olé]

How does he qualify? Irish mam?

Looks like we could have a fight on our hands to keep him: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/4892054/rudi-vata-rocco-vata-celtic-ilir-meta-albania-president/

[tetsujin1979]

I did wonder if he was related to Rudi when I saw the name.

[DannyInvincible]

How does he qualify? Irish mam?

Looks like we could have a fight on our hands to keep him: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/4892054/rudi-vata-rocco-vata-celtic-ilir-meta-albania-president/

According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudi_Vata#Personal_life), Rudi is married to an Anne Frances from Wishaw, Lanarkshire in Scotland and Rocco was born in Scotland, so I'm assuming his mother must have at least one Irish parent.

[tommy_c12000]

Ryan Johansson scored Bayern u19s only goal in their 1-2 loss to Eintracht Frankfurt

[Olé Olé]

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/4791487/rudi-vata-albania-republic-of-ireland/

Some interesting words from Rudi Vata on his son's appearance for us. Whatever about the work being done in England, there's someone doing over-time for the FAI in Glasgow, having recently got Okoflex back in the mix. Vata's situation sounds like McGeady and McCarthy, in that we were first in and have treated the lad well. He does seem like a flight risk in the future though with Albania and Scotland being strong options given his background.

[Eirambler]

Duffer maybe? I'd say he was heavily involved in Celtic bringing Connell, O'Connor and Afolabi in.

[tetsujin1979]

I don't think I can stress this enough - he's 15.
If he plays for us, well and good. If not, then I wish him nothing but success wherever he does play.

[Olé Olé]

I don't think I can stress this enough - he's 15.
If he plays for us, well and good. If not, then I wish him nothing but success wherever he does play.
I'm sensing a tone here. What is your issue? It's an interesting story and an interesting story is worth a discussion. I don't think anybody is placing pressure on him.

[liamoo11]

I'm sensing a tone here. What is your issue? It's an interesting story and an interesting story is worth a discussion. I don't think anybody is placing pressure on him.

The zefi lad who is very talented and scored this week twice also has Albanian parents https://twitter.com/i/status/1197069568235253760

[tetsujin1979]

I'm sensing a tone here. What is your issue? It's an interesting story and an interesting story is worth a discussion. I don't think anybody is placing pressure on him.

no issue at the moment, just thought it needed to be mentioned. I'd be interested in the discussion myself, and in a broader sense the work being done by the FAI to identify eligible players

[Olé Olé]

Mikey Johnston on for a goal today. Unlikely as it is, I would love if the FAI pressed this one.

[DCWA]

Mikey Johnston on for a goal today. Unlikely as it is, I would love if the FAI pressed this one.

Very good goal today and excellent against Rennes Thursday night when he came on. Was fortunate enough to be right behind his goal the movement 1-2 and finish were of the highest caliber and the young man is a serious prospect. Not sure if any realistic chance of him ever playing for Ireland unfortunately and will probably make his Scotland debut sooner than later.

[tommy_c12000]

Johansson starts for Bayern under 19s, so no run out for him with seniors in champions league later with Parrott

[tetsujin1979]

Jamie Bowden captaining the spurs team
Well be a live stream here at kick off: https://www.uefa.tv/

[IsMiseSean]

I wonder will we ever see Johansson or Bowden playing in a senior international for Ireland.

[liamoo11]

I wonder will we ever see Johansson or Bowden playing in a senior international for Ireland.

Both have a long way to go in their careers to get to that level. Hopefully they make it as first team players at a decent level

[zero]

https://www.offtheball.com/sport/family-bayern-youngster-ryan-johansson-seek-legal-advice-bid-play-ireland-939837

ugh.

[brine3]

FIFA saying he wasn't an Irish citizen before he lined out with Luxembourg youths. (This is nothing to do with having a passport or not, a passport is merely a travel document. The question is if he was Irish before he lined out for Luxembourg youths). His mother is Irish but born outside Ireland. So for him to have been automatically Irish from birth he would need to have been registered in the Foreign Births Register at the local Irish Embassy. The question is if that has been done.

A load of rubbish as far as I'm concerned. Youth caps don't count they said, but now apparently they do. I realise that this rule was invented by FIFA for a reason, i.e. to stop Qatar suddenly having a team of former Brazilian youth internationals. But in Johansson's case it seems he was eligible to be Irish since birth, but the parents simply forgot to register him in the Foreign Births Registry before he lined out for Luxembourg aged 15. It's a technicality. Ever since he was born he had the right to show up at any Irish embassy in the world and activate his citizenship, no questions asked. This isn't the case of a former Brazilian youth international suddenly declaring for Qatar.

Surely somebody in the government can "unearth" (cough cough) a 2001 entry for Ryan Johansson in the Foreign Births Registry.

[Stuttgart88]

Years ago I argued this point with Ealing Green who claimed my London-born kids weren’t yet of Irish nationality because I hadn’t got them on the FBR yet. I myself was born in UK despite my having Irish parents/grandparents and my moving to Ireland aged 3 so they needed to be registered on the FBR before I applied for their Irish passports.

So this was probably technically right, but how is nationality defined? From the moment of their birth my kids were entitled to Irish nationality. Is a baby only a national once its birth has been registered?

[IsMiseSean]

Fair play to Johansson & his family for getting legal advice and challenging FIFA's decision.

They could easily just pursue a career with Sweden and forget about Ireland.

[liamoo11]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/explainer-why-fifa-say-bayern-prospect-johansson-cant-play-for-ireland-and-his-six-arguments-for-why-he-can-38794893.html this sets out the arguments well all of which have been well aired on here

[elatedscum]

Fair play to Johansson.

Things I’d say:

1) FIFA are wrong, if not legally then morally. A 15 year old child who has been lied to by the Luxembourg FA cannot make an informed decision.

2) If the FAI weren’t broke, they should be paying for CAS. This decision has plenty of knock ons. In the circumstances, Bayern should offer to pay his CAS case. It’s pennies to them.

3) The ruling as it stands means that Dan Crowley is also ineligible I guess. Which is really sad. Another kid who had no idea the choice he was making.

4) Really stresses the importance of insuring that Liam Delap, Louie Barry and CJ Reilly all have irish passports before March when they’ll be playing for England U17s. Once again, the FAI should really have someone employed to take care of this process for the kids and the parents.

5) The best thing the FAI could do is lobby for a change to the rules. The rules were changed about 12 years ago because Algeria proposed a rule change and the majority of the nations agreed with it. A simple wording change to “eligible or entitled to eligibility” would be enough to solve this problem and wouldn’t really harm any other nations except perhaps Sweden re Johansson. (Perhaps a rule change that Delaney or Mooney could have swung? He joked)

6) might be no harm for Stephen Kenny to have him training with his side in March. The family are giving the sense that they’re anxious not to lose out on him playing underage international football, well having the opportunity of working with Stephen Kenny would be a big and positive statement from the FAI and from Kenny.

7) There’s definitely a feeling that his family are doing their best to get the story out as far and wide as possible that he wants to play for ireland. No harm considering the reaction the likes of Grealish and Rice have received. Good for a young man like him to avoid all the idiots online who would hammer him if he ended up playing for Sweden.

[brine3]

Yeah, have to wonder about the Dan Crowley situation now. Was he registered on the FBR before lining out for England U16? I assume he was because he was already to be called up for Irish senior team so you'd assume it was cleared with FIFA

[tetsujin1979]

Crowley did appear in friendlies for the Ireland under 17s in 2013, and had played for the u16s before that. You'd hope he had his Irish passport at that stage, but possibly not.

[liamoo11]

Crowley did appear in friendlies for the Ireland under 17s in 2013, and had played for the u16s before that. You'd hope he had his Irish passport at that stage, but possibly not.

I wonder is it only an issue for fifa if another nation objects like Luxembourg did for Johansson? England would be unlikely to object I would say given our shared history

[Diggs246]

I wonder is it only an issue for fifa if another nation objects like Luxembourg did for Johansson? England would be unlikely to object I would say given our shared history

The callum robinson sitution would indicate yes, the issue is now going forward and Dan hasn't been okayed.
If we lose this battle we will lose the war on this, as every granny rule player who played for England underage or whoever is now gone. ( none of them will have Irish passports)
I welcome Ryan's legal action, but should our friends in Abbottsown not also been engaging their solicitors as well.

[liamoo11]

The callum robinson sitution would indicate yes, the issue is now going forward and Dan hasn't been okayed.
If we lose this battle we will lose the war on this, as every granny rule player who played for England underage or whoever is now gone. ( none of them will have Irish passports)
I welcome Ryan's legal action, but should our friends in Abbottsown not also been engaging their solicitors as well.

Yeah couldn't come at a worst time with no money in the fai pot

[Paddy Garcia]

Was there something similar with Tim Cahill - I think played for Samoa youth team? And then was able to play for Australia after an appeal!

[tetsujin1979]

Yeah, he played when he was 14 or something, but he only accepted the call up because he wanted a free flight to see his grandparents!
Samoa didn't object to his transfer to Australia either

[geysir]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/explainer-why-fifa-say-bayern-prospect-johansson-cant-play-for-ireland-and-his-six-arguments-for-why-he-can-38794893.html this sets out the arguments well all of which have been well aired on here
I can't say Im impressed with that legalese
There's even an attempt to reinterpret the Irish citizenship laws, that just because Ryan was entitled to apply for Irish citizenship is claimed to be the equivalent of actually being an Irish citizen.
And the fact that Ryan's parents were aware of his decision to switch to Luxembourg nullifies the exploitation argument.
That just leaves the fickleness of youth argument, which is a truth but not a defence for malfeasance.

[Stuttgart88]

England would be unlikely to object I would say given our shared historyBrexit, Soldier F...:)

[Kingdom]

I don't think I can stress this enough - he's 15.
If he plays for us, well and good. If not, then I wish him nothing but success wherever he does play.

The other thing, his Da is Albanian. That usually is a heavy pull, not entirely different to some of our golden generation 2g'ers.

[Kingdom]

Years ago I argued this ......birth has been registered?

Nationality is murky and undefinable in this modern world we live in. Brexit has been a great example of this.


Things I’d say:


1) FIFA are wrong, if not legally then morally. A 15 year old child who has been lied to by the Luxembourg FA cannot make an informed decision.
In cases affecting underage internationals, Agreed. He's a child making a life-defining decision, without access to the full facts. Whether that is the fault of his parents or the Luxembourg FA or Bayern is irrelevant. Adults charged with doing right by him have f'd up, either deliberately or by accident.


2) If the FAI weren’t broke, they should be paying for CAS. This decision has plenty of knock ons. In the circumstances, Bayern should offer to pay his CAS case. It’s pennies to them.
Great shout. Also, to point out, that the Irish diplomatic service do incredible work. absolutely incredible, and the network is off the charts. While the FAI might be broke, bayern certainly are not, and I'm sure the FAI/Dept of Sport could speak with their colleagues in DFA and raise the subject with the Embassy in Berlin, and take it from there.


4) Really stresses the importance of insuring that Liam Delap, Louie Barry and CJ Reilly all have irish passports before March when they’ll be playing for England U17s. Once again, the FAI should really have someone employed to take care of this process for the kids and the parents.
This I don't agree with - the premise anyway. We need to have someone who has access to all the facts and legislation and how to do the process, but the decision and the process needs to be initiated by the Parents/individual him/herself. It is citizenship we're talking about here. Think of how hett up some folk at home get when non_nationals are given citizenship (rightly).


5) The best thing the FAI could do is lobby for a change to the rules. The rules were changed about 12 years ago because Algeria proposed a rule change and the majority of the nations agreed with it. A simple wording change to “eligible or entitled to eligibility” would be enough to solve this problem and wouldn’t really harm any other nations except perhaps Sweden re Johansson. (Perhaps a rule change that Delaney or Mooney could have swung? He joked)
Trust me, it's not that simple. In the work that I do, legislation gets delayed for weeks, months, over the differences between "may" and "shall". "Entitled to eligibility" sounds loose in my mind.


6) might be no harm for Stephen Kenny to have him training with his side in March. The family are giving the sense that they’re anxious not to lose out on him playing underage international football, well having the opportunity of working with Stephen Kenny would be a big and positive statement from the FAI and from Kenny.
You well know there is no way this can happen. If he's ineligible to play for us (at present) then insurance wouldn't cover any injury. WHile the sentiment would be good, and morally a great move, it's not practical


7) There’s definitely a feeling that his family are doing their best to get the story out as far and wide as possible that he wants to play for ireland. No harm considering the reaction the likes of Grealish and Rice have received. Good for a young man like him to avoid all the idiots online who would hammer him if he ended up playing for Sweden.
Yep, its positive certainly.


The callum robinson sitution would indicate yes, the issue is now going forward and Dan hasn't been okayed.
If we lose this battle we will lose the war on this, as every granny rule player who played for England underage or whoever is now gone. (none of them will have Irish passports)
I welcome Ryan's legal action, but should our friends in Abbottsown not also been engaging their solicitors as well.

Yes, I think the FAI should have been doing more. They certainly should have been liaising with DFA when the eligibility changes were made 12 years ago that ElastedScum referred to. It's disappointing, because you'd have to think that these changes would have been circulated to all FIFA members. A simple meeting with relevant DFA officials, even between the two legal departments, would have worked out that this had the potential to be a problem. However there's nothing to say that this didn't happen, but maybe the FAI decided to ignore the situation in the idea that 'well it's not been a problem previously, and nobody has called us out on it before, lets truck on'.

I don't necessarily agree that we'll lose the war. In a way I nearly like what FIFA are doing, apart from the fact that it definitely aids the bigger nations more than the weaker ones who generally rely on this type of player. I would imagine Turkey will be a little nervous in this situation, particularly with so many of their internationals over the years being 2g'ers from Germany.
I'll qualify what I like about it, and I'll preface this by saying my understanding of the eligibility laws is nowhere near as strong as some of you.

Take 3 players: Player A was born in Ireland, to Irish parents - simples. Player B was born in Scotland, to a Scottish father and Irish mother: simples. Player C was born in the Netherlands to a Finnish father who had a Bosnian father and Albanian mother, and a Belgian mother with an Irish father and an English mother. Murky. We all know A&B, and C is a 'dramatization, may not have happened' scenario.
In FIFA's eyes, player C can play underage for one team, and could play for any one of 6 other nations. Hell, he may not have played underage for any of the 7, but could get called into squads for a number of the 7 as a Senior international without playing for any of them and still get called up by another one of the 7. Ensur.
The problem with this resolution is that it's closing the door after the horse has bolted. The other problem goes back to my first point, which is that Nationality is so far mixed that it's very hard to define.

What the FAI could do, in conjunction with the DFA and their missions around the world, is to actually be proactive. Release a short video, on what is required and get Missions to post on their social media channels. Bring exposure to the issue.


I can't say Im impressed with that legalese
There's even an attempt to reinterpret the Irish citizenship laws, that just because Ryan was entitled to apply for Irish citizenship is claimed to be the equivalent of actually being an Irish citizen.
And the fact that Ryan's parents were aware of his decision to switch to Luxembourg nullifies the exploitation argument.
That just leaves the fickleness of youth argument, which is a truth but not a defence for malfeasance.

I'm almost in full agreement with you. It's not the fickleness of youth argument, it's the fickleness of parents, erm, argument. A child cannot dictate to parents what they must do.

[geysir]

.....A child cannot dictate to parents what they must do.
You haven't met Bonny Shels, have you?

[liamoo11]

The 15s won yesterday again https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/ireland-u15-2-0-win-for-ireland-over-australia-u17s and had an American lad involved who it looks like noel king personally delivered https://mobile.twitter.com/oakwood_academy/status/1218152241187692549

[Yard of Pace]

Could Lukas Jutkiewicz be 2020's Bernie Slaven???

[Razors left peg]

Ryan Johansson moving to Sevilla, have we given up hope on his availability to us yet

[dr_peepee]

Declared for Sweden according to his agent today. It’s on Newstalk

[Stuttgart88]

Seems to be a suggestion that it's because he wouldn't have been allowed to play for us, so chose Sweden over Lux.

[Olé Olé]

https://twitter.com/KennysKids/status/1220350175786520576?s=19

Grim stuff on Johansson. I'm disgusted they didn't budge in FIFA on this.

[irishfan86]

Really sad stuff and I suspect if FAI wasn't in disarray the organization could have championed his case properly. This seems insane to me that he can't play for us. I can imagine a scenario where he's basically got no support from the FAI despite his publicly stated intentions of wanting to play for us.

[DCWA]

A Callum Whelan playing for Watford tonight - eligible ? (Going only by the name)

[Razors left peg]

https://twitter.com/KennysKids/status/1220350175786520576?s=19

Grim stuff on Johansson. I'm disgusted they didn't budge in FIFA on this.

Disappointing, right now Molumby looks good though so hopefully we wont miss him too much

[Closed Account]

A Callum Whelan playing for Watford tonight - eligible ? (Going only by the name)

Ex Man U youth. Flash score have always had a tricolour next to his name.
https://www.flashscore.com/player/whelan-callum/IHV75N8s/
I asked about him on here before but got no reply 😢

[gastric]

There's also a Oliver Casey at Leeds, 19 yrs old, who was on the bench at the weekend. It seems he has not represented anyone internationally, might be eligible.

[Olé Olé]

18 year old Mason O'Malley on the bench for Scunthorpe. Flashscore give him the privilege of the tri-colour and I had never heard of him. But it looks like he's been involved in training camps for us: https://www.scunthorpe-united.co.uk/teams/u23-team/u23-squad/mason-omalley/

[geysir]

Really sad stuff and I suspect if FAI wasn't in disarray the organization could have championed his case properly. This seems insane to me that he can't play for us. I can imagine a scenario where he's basically got no support from the FAI despite his publicly stated intentions of wanting to play for us. From what I gather Ryan and his parents took the decision for him to switch from Ireland to Lux. If that was the case what can the FAI do? They tried to support his application to re switch to the FAI but Ryan was ineligible. As dysfunctional and all as the FAI were, they were reasonably efficient when it came to getting kids to declare for Ireland without pushing it or forcing the issue, and that’s how it should be. Sometimes kids are just mixed up. beyond the pale.

[CraftyToePoke]

Louie Barry has joined Villa from Barcelona, who he joined form West Brom not so long ago.

[tetsujin1979]

According to the latest scoring report from the FAI, will Keane has acquired his passport: https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/scouting-report-obafemi-impresses-mccarthy-at-saints

“Will got his passport sorted last year but he has struggled with injuries until now and we will keep an eye on him at Ipswich."
McGoldrick, Robinson, Long, Connolly, Obafemi are all playing at a higher level than league one. Parrott and Idah are probably on the fringes of the senior squad, and Curtis already has international caps, so they're ahead of him too.
So, is he the eighth choice?

[Eirambler]

Probably not. Collins, O'Brien and Hogan are potentially ahead of him as well.