Potentially eligible players thread

[Duggie]

i have no problem with say mcgeady or mccarthy for instance. if there willing to play for ireland and take the kind of stick they get in the country they were born then im glad. seems mcgeady always wanted to play for us anyway. plus they were with us from underage upwards.

but i dont want someone who has played games for england, underage or whatever in there 20's switching over. now there isnt anything we can do about it if it happens tho. i wouldnt look at them in the same way. look at robbie having his son born here.

[irishfan86]

look at robbie having his son born here.

At the end of the day, his kid is going to grow up, have an English accent, and probably love his home- England.

He's probably going to love Ireland too.

The idea of dual loyalties and complicated identities seems to be a bit beyond quite a few members of this forum though :eek:

[Duggie]

At the end of the day, his kid is going to grow up, have an English accent, and probably love his home- England.

He's probably going to love Ireland too.

The idea of dual loyalties and complicated identities seems to be a bit beyond quite a few members of this forum though :eek:

yes but if hes born irish hes 100% irish IMO. now it dosent matter he may not ever be a footballer, but somehow i can only see robbie keane's child been brought up 100 irish. 100% no question.

[Den Perry]

Obviously not a fan of our players singing GSTQ, but is it possible that someone could be born English, to English parents, love England, have an Irish grandparent who they visit fairly regularly in Ireland, and love Ireland as well? This player never gets a look in with England, and one day gets a call from the Irish management team, who compliment his recent performances and say, "we'd love to have you in the squad, if you'd like to represent Ireland."

Or a player with an English dad and an Irish mum. Born and raised in England, loves England, sings GSTQ, but is conscientious of being Irish as well.

Have fun villainizing Matt Holland if you want, but I don't feel like attacking a good servant to the Irish team who happens to have dual allegiances.

You'd want to grow up. If Holland was by this time an Irish international and sang the national anthem of another nation it is nothing short of embarressing.It doesn't matter if its GSTQ, Flower of Scotland or the Star Spangled Banner.Of course he can be proud of his English heritage but by being an Irish international h was mean to be IRISH.Imagine if we were playing against England and he started singing GSTQ?

By the way, did you ever see him sing the Irish National Anthem?

Good servant? He was extremely overated as a player. Keane alongside him made him look good and the proof was in the pudding at WC 2002 where he was absolutely terrible apart from the goal against Cameroon. I know it was a hugely important goal, but centre midfield was terrible in that tiournament

[passinginterest]

I dunno, I often find myself wandering around singing GSTQ and I haven't got an English bone in my body, it's just a catchy little, slightly racist, offensive, ditty. Try not singing along to a catchy tune when 80,000 other people are :D

[irishfan86]

You'd want to grow up. If Holland was by this time an Irish international and sang the national anthem of another nation it is nothing short of embarressing.It doesn't matter if its GSTQ, Flower of Scotland or the Star Spangled Banner.Of course he can be proud of his English heritage but by being an Irish international h was mean to be IRISH.Imagine if we were playing against England and he started singing GSTQ?

By the way, did you ever see him sing the Irish National Anthem?

Good servant? He was extremely overated as a player. Keane alongside him made him look good and the proof was in the pudding at WC 2002 where he was absolutely terrible apart from the goal against Cameroon. I know it was a hugely important goal, but centre midfield was terrible in that tiournament

So what are you saying, a person can't be both Irish and English? You have to choose? What is this, a ****ing war? Get over yourself, it's football.

And when I talk about "good servants," I'm not talking about ability, I'm talking about always being willing to give 100% commitment to the cause while wearing the green, which Holland did.

Kilbane is a good servant to the Irish team, but I wouldn't call him a particularly marvelous player ability-wise.

[Dodge]

The idea of dual loyalties and complicated identities seems to be a bit beyond quite a few members of this forum though :eek:

yep, and the idea of a national team representing their country seems to be beyond quite a few too

[irishfan86]

yep, and the idea of a national team representing their country seems to be beyond quite a few too

As the world becomes more interconnected as globalization takes hold, the idea of nationalities starts to break down.

Growing up in Canada, a nation of immigrants, many of my friends have many allegiances.

For example, I have a friend who has a Greek father, an Italian mother, and was raised in Canada.

BUT YOU CAN ONLY CHOOSE ONE COUNTRY TO FOLLOW, AND YOU MUST ONLY SING ONE ANTHEM!

Give me a break.

[paul_oshea]

I think the line is quite bendy in this case ;)

[Mcgeady46]

Obviously not a fan of our players singing GSTQ, but is it possible that someone could be born English, to English parents, love England, have an Irish grandparent who they visit fairly regularly in Ireland, and love Ireland as well? This player never gets a look in with England, and one day gets a call from the Irish management team, who compliment his recent performances and say, "we'd love to have you in the squad, if you'd like to represent Ireland."

Or a player with an English dad and an Irish mum. Born and raised in England, loves England, sings GSTQ, but is conscientious of being Irish as well.

Have fun villainizing Matt Holland if you want, but I don't feel like attacking a good servant to the Irish team who happens to have dual allegiances.

can't happen - that makes then english sinple as and they have no place near the Irish team

[paul_oshea]

For example, I have a friend who has a Greek father, an Italian mother, and was raised in Canada.



That poor lad must be awful mixed up.....pasta or salad, pasta or greek salad, pasta or waldorf salad...:D :p

[endabob1]

can't happen - that makes then english sinple as and they have no place near the Irish team

That is an opinion and not a fact.

[tetsujin1979]

You'd want to grow up. If Holland was by this time an Irish international and sang the national anthem of another nation it is nothing short of embarressing.It doesn't matter if its GSTQ, Flower of Scotland or the Star Spangled Banner.Of course he can be proud of his English heritage but by being an Irish international h was mean to be IRISH.Imagine if we were playing against England and he started singing GSTQ? My housemate is half Swedish, half Tunisian. He speaks both languages fluently, sings both national anthems and follows both international teams passionately. What a b*stard.

[irishfan86]

My housemate is half Swedish, half Tunisian. He speaks both languages fluently, sings both national anthems and follows both international teams passionately. What a b*stard.

What do you think we should do- hang him or shoot him?

[Drumcondra 69er]

You'd want to grow up.



Good servant? He was extremely overated as a player. Keane alongside him made him look good and the proof was in the pudding at WC 2002 where he was absolutely terrible apart from the goal against Cameroon. I know it was a hugely important goal, but centre midfield was terrible in that tiournament

That's actually rubbish, you'd want to get over the fact that your beloved RK buggered off and then heed your own advice from the first line of your post.

Holland and Kinsella both had good tournaments in 2002, without wanting to scapegoat Ian Harte we were weakest down our left and that's where we were targeted. No team in that tournament over ran us in centre mid, it's laughable to suggest that.

[Den Perry]

That's actually rubbish, you'd want to get over the fact that your beloved RK buggered off and then heed your own advice from the first line of your post.

Holland and Kinsella both had good tournaments in 2002, without wanting to scapegoat Ian Harte we were weakest down our left and that's where we were targeted. No team in that tournament over ran us in centre mid, it's laughable to suggest that.

Well get your videos out mate because Germany and Spain totally overan our midfield

[Dodge]

Lads, less of the personal stuff.

[Den Perry]

If a player was born and bred in England, surely you can't complain if he sings GSTQ. Now if he sang it at an Ireland game you could complain. After all he is representing Ireland at football not joining Sinn Fein.

I'm not anti -english in the slightest, but he was an Irish international at the time, and sang the national anthem of another country....I just can't understand that. sorry

[Drumcondra 69er]

Well get your videos out mate because Germany and Spain totally overan our midfield

I was at both of those games and no offence but that's pure garbage mate.

We dominated both those games for the bulk of the 90 and 120 minutes, particulalry the longer the match went on.

I understand you're still obviously upset over Saipan but basing arguments on fiction as a result because Roy was out walking Triggs rather then bossing the midfield does you no favours.

[Den Perry]

I was at both of those games and no offence but that's pure garbage mate.

We dominated both those games for the bulk of the 90 and 120 minutes, particulalry the longer the match went on.

I understand you're still obviously upset over Saipan but basing arguments on fiction as a result because Roy was out walking Triggs rather then bossing the midfield does you no favours.


Thats your opinion.Look, I'm entitled to mine, and my belief was that our central midfield of which Holland was part of was overun in WC 2002. In fact, I cannot remember him playing well for us in a match of any importance when Keane did not partner him in midfield

You also said we dominated for the bulk of 120 minutes against Spain? Well from what I can remember we could have been more than one down to them at half time and played against 10 men for quite a part of extra time

[Dodge]

Whether he was of the requisite talent or not is immaterial. He absolutely made the most of his talent and performed well for Ireland, as all top professionals do.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't recall midfield being overrun in any game at WC02 either - bar maybe the first half of the first half in Suwon when the whole team wasn't at the races. Our second half performance in that game made me proud.

Overall it was well balanced and functional without being particularly punchy. Holland's goal in Niigata kept that campaign alive - probably the best goal from open play we've scored at a major finals.

Put sentiment aside - Houghton's 2 famous goals were both awful and Whelan's volley was off his shin but looked great. Holland's strike in Niigata was as sweet as you like, as was his crucial equaliser in Lisbon in a game where we deserved absolutely nothing.

[Den Perry]

Whether he was of the requisite talent or not is immaterial. He absolutely made the most of his talent and performed well for Ireland, as all top professionals do.


Maybe he did make the most of his tlent. I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that I believe his performances were overated and that he did not play well in wc2002

[Dodge]

Maybe he did make the most of his tlent. I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that I believe his performances were overated and that he did not play well in wc2002

You replied to someone calling him a good servant with a post about his ability.

[Den Perry]

You replied to someone calling him a good servant with a post about his ability.


I replied stating that I didn't like him and then offered my opinion that he was an overrated player.What's the problem in doing that?

[Drumcondra 69er]

Thats your opinion.Look, I'm entitled to mine, and my belief was that our central midfield of which Holland was part of was overun in WC 2002. In fact, I cannot remember him playing well for us in a match of any importance when Keane did not partner him in midfield

You also said we dominated for the bulk of 120 minutes against Spain? Well from what I can remember we could have been more than one down to them at half time and played against 10 men for quite a part of extra time

Fair enough, opinions are one's own.

But to counter, Spain had the best of the first half hour but by half time we'd begun to get back into it. We dominated the second half and the half hour extra time. So, even giving them the first 45, dominating for 75 minutes minimum of 120 makes up the bulk in any launguage. The fact they were down to 10 men for part of extra time is irrelevant, we were all over them at that stage.

Against Germany Oliver Khan kept them in the game, they were hanging on for dear life by the time we scored. We obviously bossed the Saudis and Holland scored the equaliser against Cameroon. I honestly just can't see where you could have saw us being over run in central midfield in WC 2002.

[Metrostars]

yes but if hes born irish hes 100% irish IMO. now it dosent matter he may not ever be a footballer, but somehow i can only see robbie keane's child been brought up 100 irish. 100% no question.

Sorry, I've got to disagree with that. If the kid is being raised in England, then he is not 100% Irish.

[Duggie]

Sorry, I've got to disagree with that. If the kid is being raised in England, then he is not 100% Irish.

well maybe what i meant was, in the case of robbie keane's child for example. he was born in ireland, both his parents are irish, and i have no doubt he will be brought up as irish as can be even though a lot of this will be in england. still 100% irish in this case IMO.

[Den Perry]

Fair enough, opinions are one's own.

But to counter, Spain had the best of the first half hour but by half time we'd begun to get back into it. We dominated the second half and the half hour extra time. So, even giving them the first 45, dominating for 75 minutes minimum of 120 makes up the bulk in any launguage. The fact they were down to 10 men for part of extra time is irrelevant, we were all over them at that stage.

Against Germany Oliver Khan kept them in the game, they were hanging on for dear life by the time we scored. We obviously bossed the Saudis and Holland scored the equaliser against Cameroon. I honestly just can't see where you could have saw us being over run in central midfield in WC 2002.

I don't wanna fight no more..

[Duggie]

look no way were we overan in those games. our midfield worked very well if my memory serves me right.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Sorry, I've got to disagree with that. If the kid is being raised in England, then he is not 100% Irish.

I'd love to see you put that to the Brummie and London Irish lads I go on away trips with! :D

[paul_oshea]

I'd love to see you put that to the Brummie and London Irish lads I go on away trips with! :D

Drummer 69er, so would I, but I'm also pretty sure that he might be brought round fairly quickly ;)

[Dodge]

I'd love to see you put that to the Brummie and London Irish lads I go on away trips with! :D

I think Metrostars has more of an insight on how Irish people abroad feel than most here.

[paul_oshea]

I think Metrostars has more of an insight on how Irish people abroad feel than most here.

I'm also pretty sure he hasn't been engrossed in an Irish community away from home or grown up in an Irish community away from home.

Ive experienced the "Irish" American and the Irish in England, and there is no comparison.

[boovidge]

I'd be very wary about having players who don't consider themselves Irish playing for us for career reasons. However, I don't think anyone has the right to make a judgment on someone elses nationality. I think it has to be up to the player to question if he should be representing Ireland or not.

As for dual Irish/English identity i've never seen a conflict with it. I've been born and raised in England with an Irish mother and feel ties to both countries. I have a Cross of St George aswell as an Irish tricolour hanging in my room. However I do make a big distinction between being English, which i do feel, and being "British" which I don't. Maybe that makes a difference, although as someone said earlier, playing football for Ireland isn't the same as joining Sinn Fein.

[Dodge]

I'm also pretty sure he hasn't been engrossed in an Irish community away from home or grown up in an Irish community away from home.

Ive experienced the "Irish" American and the Irish in England, and there is no comparison.

Going by your logic, there's no comparison to being born in Ireland, and growing up in Ireland so that proves his point.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I think Metrostars has more of an insight on how Irish people abroad feel than most here.

I wouldn't say he has anymore of an insight into how Irish people raised in England feel though and that's what this discussion was about.

In fact it's possible he'd have less given that most people growing up in the 70's or 80's for example would most likely have had cousins in England that they would have seen on visits etc and could well have lived there for a while end of the 80's early 90's when there were sod all jobs around back home. It's a lot closer to home then the states.

The original resposne was a bit tounge in cheek though.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I'd be very wary about having players who don't consider themselves Irish playing for us for career reasons. However, I don't think anyone has the right to make a judgment on someone elses nationality. I think it has to be up to the player to question if he should be representing Ireland or not.

As for dual Irish/English identity i've never seen a conflict with it. I've been born and raised in England with an Irish mother and feel ties to both countries. I have a Cross of St George aswell as an Irish tricolour hanging in my room. However I do make a big distinction between being English, which i do feel, and being "British" which I don't. Maybe that makes a difference, although as someone said earlier, playing football for Ireland isn't the same as joining Sinn Fein.

Who would you cheer on in an Ireland v England game were we to get drawn together as kept happening from 88 to 92?

And, if the answer is Ireland would you cheer for England against anyone else?

Not being judgemental, genuine questions.

[Den Perry]

I'd be very wary about having players who don't consider themselves Irish playing for us for career reasons. However, I don't think anyone has the right to make a judgment on someone elses nationality. I think it has to be up to the player to question if he should be representing Ireland or not.

As for dual Irish/English identity i've never seen a conflict with it. I've been born and raised in England with an Irish mother and feel ties to both countries. I have a Cross of St George aswell as an Irish tricolour hanging in my room. However I do make a big distinction between being English, which i do feel, and being "British" which I don't. Maybe that makes a difference, although as someone said earlier, playing football for Ireland isn't the same as joining Sinn Fein.


that's a good point. I've no problem whatsoever with somebody feeling attached to both countries. I just thought it was stupid of Matt Holland to sing GSTQ when he had played for Ireland (albeit a brief appearance at that point)

[irishfan86]

that's a good point. I've no problem whatsoever with somebody feeling attached to both countries. I just thought it was stupid of Matt Holland to sing GSTQ when he had played for Ireland (albeit a brief appearance at that point)

I honestly don't see the problem. If he feels attached to both countries, a possibility which you accept, then why can't he sing the anthems of both countries?

This was a domestic cup competition, not an international match.

If he's singing GSTQ at Lansdowne when we're playing England, then yeah, I've got a problem with it, but give me a break.

I sing two anthems proudly myself, but I think the real problem here is anti-English sentiment, and not the issues of mixed loyalties.

If you're born into an Italian family in Ireland, it's no big deal if you celebrate your Italian heritage. If you call yourself a member of the "London Irish," but are proud of your English roots as well (parent from each nation perhaps?) you'll get ****ing murdered in some quarters.

Have a look at boovidge's post. He's bold enough to admit it, but I bet a lot of those "London Irish" and "Brum Irish" have complicated identities, but would never admit it while travelling to support the Irish team because of how certain people (like in this thread) would react.

[irishultra]

Speaking of naturalized brazilians....
What about all the ones down in Gort, any of them coming good soon?? :D :D

there all going home and apparently one of the kids is a deadly hurler.

[irishultra]

how can somebody be brought up 'irish'? what does that even mean like?

why did keane have his child born in ireland anyway? since 2004 anyone born in ireland is not automatically entitled to citizenship. would have made no difference where rob jr. was born

[Colbert Report]

how can somebody be brought up 'irish'? what does that even mean like?

why did keane have his child born in ireland anyway? since 2004 anyone born in ireland is not automatically entitled to citizenship. would have made no difference where rob jr. was born

I was born in Canada, spent most of my childhood in things like Irish dancing and watching Euro 88 with my Da. We moved home when I was nine and I lived there for my formative years. I may not have been born in Ireland but I most certainly was raised Irish and I'd kill to play for the Irish national team.

[Noelys Guitar]

If this rule had been inacted 40 or so years ago we might have qualified more often. Joe Corrigan and Martin Keown immediately spring to mind. Both considered themselves Irish even though they played for England.

[irishultra]

lol, my irish youth was spent skateboarding, watching american tv shows and listening to eminem.

[Noelys Guitar]

I honestly don't see the problem. If he feels attached to both countries, a possibility which you accept, then why can't he sing the anthems of both countries?

This was a domestic cup competition, not an international match.

If he's singing GSTQ at Lansdowne when we're playing England, then yeah, I've got a problem with it, but give me a break.

I sing two anthems proudly myself, but I think the real problem here is anti-English sentiment, and not the issues of mixed loyalties.

If you're born into an Italian family in Ireland, it's no big deal if you celebrate your Italian heritage. If you call yourself a member of the "London Irish," but are proud of your English roots as well (parent from each nation perhaps?) you'll get ****ing murdered in some quarters.

Have a look at boovidge's post. He's bold enough to admit it, but I bet a lot of those "London Irish" and "Brum Irish" have complicated identities, but would never admit it while travelling to support the Irish team because of how certain people (like in this thread) would react.

Good post. I have met Irish fans from England, Australia and the US down the years who have no connections to Ireland whatsover. The coach loads of West Brom fans who turned up to support Ireland at Wembley in 1976. The Arsenal fans who turned up to support Ireland away to France 79 Belgium 81 and Holland 81/82. The English guy with no Irish connections who Con Houlihan used to write about. He not only went to every Ireland game but went to a lot of Dublin GAA games as well. I met Aussies at Euro 88 supporting Ireland. I met a few Italian/Americans in Poland 91 who travelled from Munich to support Ireland.

[Metrostars]

Lads, maybe I didn't give an accurate account of my thoughts on this.

I moved here when I was 22, now I have 3 kids born in the US. While we are not involved that much with the local Irish community, the kids know their background and heritage through me. We go back every year and each time they appreciate and understand more what it means to be Irish. But it is still not the same as my upbringing in Ireland where EVERYTHING was Irish. It is a different mentality. And just because a kid of Irish descent does Irish dancing or plays hurling, it doesn't necessarily make them any more Irish from those who couldn't be bothered. Maybe it is different in England where there is a larger Irish population and the culture is more similar to Ireland as opposed to the US and Ireland.

As for singing different national anthems, I have no problem singing the Star Spangled Banner. It doesn't make me less Irish.

[John83]

If this rule had been inacted 40 or so years ago we might have qualified more often. Joe Corrigan and Martin Keown immediately spring to mind. Both considered themselves Irish even though they played for England.
I don't know about Corrigan, but I understood the opposite about Keown: he qualified for us but had absolutely no interest as he considered himself English.

As everyone is entitled to their opinions on this thread, can I voice the opinion that anyone who thinks that dual nationality can't mean anything to anyone is a simpleton?

[SilkCut]

Wow this is all so complicated eh!! I live in Australia but was born and raised in Ireland, however I actively sought Australian citizenship and am very proud to have an Australian passport because this country provided me with opportunities that Ireland could not give me. Do I sing "Advance Australia Fair"? too bloody right I do, its the least I can do to show my respect and gratitude for a country that has given me so much. Do I feel any less Irish? Not a bit I am still a very proud Irishman but am also a very thankful Australian and my kids will be raised the same. I think this is probably the normal feeling for most Irish abroad and those of you who don't seem to understand this most probably have lived in Ireland all your lives.

[Noelys Guitar]

I don't know about Corrigan, but I understood the opposite about Keown: he qualified for us but had absolutely no interest as he considered himself English.

As everyone is entitled to their opinions on this thread, can I voice the opinion that anyone who thinks that dual nationality can't mean anything to anyone is a simpleton?

Keown definetely wanted to play for Ireland. Jack Charlton tried to get him onboard but was unsuccessful because Keown had already played for England's u16's and u18's. Giles recounted the story about Corrigan wanting to play for Ireland. Called him the best goalkeeper we almost had.