Potentially eligible players thread

[DannyInvincible]

Whilst on this, can someone tell me how exactly Harry Kane was eligible to play for us? I seem to recall reading somewhere that his father is from Galway but I'm not sure if that was confirmed or not.

His father was born in Galway, as far as I know.

These articles mention Galway as being the birthplace of his father:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2992149/Harry-Kane-considered-playing-Ireland-breakthrough-season-propelled-brink-England-says-Martin-O-Neill.html
http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/video-mauricio-pochettino-thinks-harry-kane-playing-for-ireland-is-hilarious/11454
http://www.the42.ie/harry-kane-not-interested-playing-for-ireland-1927119-Feb2015/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/tottenham-hotspur/11397927/Harry-Kane-proves-why-he-should-be-in-the-England-team-after-taking-North-London-derby-by-storm.html


Dan McDonnell described his eligibility as spawning from "a Galway connection on his father's side", however: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/oneill-harry-kane-had-a-keen-interest-in-playing-for-ireland-31062894.html

It doesn't rule out the possibility of his father being Galway-born, but is that an odd way to phrase it if the father himself was born in Galway? Would (a mere) "connection" imply one or both of the father's parents might have been from Galway and not actually the father himself? I'm not sure.

[IsMiseSean]

Harry Kane's father is from Connemara (Renvyle or Recess I think) & emigrated in his late teens/early 20's.
They still have plenty of cousins around the Clifden area. At least that's what I've been told.

[TrapAPony]

Harry Kane was badly reared so. Father obviously didn't instil any Irishness in him.

[IsMiseSean]

That's the first thing that came to my mind when I heard.
Then to see him singing GSTQ so passionately, I thought his father has failed him. :D

[Stuttgart88]

Harry Kane was badly reared so. Father obviously didn't instil any Irishness in him.and yet I get ridiculed as Superdad when my supremely gifted son wears his Ireland kit EVERY day. Can't win really :)

[SkStu]

I, for one, have pinned my hopes on Stutts and the quality of his progeny as the only viable solution to our footballing woes.

[Olé Olé]

That's the first thing that came to my mind when I heard.
Then to see him singing GSTQ so passionately, I thought his father has failed him. :D

This is what I don't get about it: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3004712/Harry-Kane-EXCLUSIVE-ve-cried-watching-England-want-make-smile.html

He speaks about going down the local with his family to watch the England matches and how his old man brought him and brother to see England v Switzerland in 2008. That seems very strange from an Irish-born man. That said, my old man used to religiously go to Twickenham when I lived in England as a young lad... to support Ireland when we played them in the rugby.

[IsMiseSean]

I've never seen that before. That makes me doubt the information I've heard.
I'll dig a little deeper the next time I'm back in Clifden.

[paul_oshea]

I've never seen that before. That makes me doubt the information I've heard.
I'll dig a little deeper the next time I'm back in Clifden.

consequently I know a few Kanes here who are big supporters of spurs and from renvyle/Clifden. Ive never asked if they are a relation but I must ask as one will know the family anyway if they're from there.

[IsMiseSean]

It's definitely the Renvyle/Clifden area. I've always heard it's his dad that's from there but I'm doubting that now.

[OwlsFan]

Watchable documentary on Wayne Rooney last night, if a bit too softly softly. Frequently mentions his grandparents but never in the context of them being Irish.

[DannyInvincible]

This relates to Grealish specifically but also provides an insight into O'Neill's approach to dual nationals and his thoughts on persuading such players to commit in light of being accused of demeaning our integrity by "traipsing after" Grealish (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/eamonn-sweeney-the-way-weve-used-the-granny-rule-is-a-prime-example-of-sleeveenism-31580069.html) by Eamonn Sweeney: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/i-did-not-prostitute-myself-martin-oneill-furious-over-jack-grealish-reports-31585433.html


The Ireland manager has taken umbrage at suggestions that the FAI were humiliated by the Aston Villa winger, arguing that he gave the player space to make a decision as opposed to putting pressure on him to stay in the green jersey.

O'Neill is bemused by the reaction to Grealish's English call and criticism centred around the Irish reliance on players born outside the country.

"I never prostituted myself in any way, shape or form trying to get Jack Grealish," said O'Neill, when asked his reaction to last week's developments.

"I never chased it. I never chased Jack Grealish at all. I think Jack Grealish and his father would readily admit that. In fact, I've actually been accused of the other thing - of not chasing it up.

...

"Jack Grealish had a decision to make. Jack Grealish was born in England, his father was born in England and therefore he made a decision to play in England so that's it. It's absolutely and utterly his and his father's decision so it's fine because I left it in their hands."

The 63-year-old was informed of the youngster's verdict by his father Kevin and does not think that the input of agents was a factor in his choice. After Grealish turned down a call in the summer, a representative from the Stellar Group was present at a subsequent meeting between the protagonists.

"I had a very decent meeting with himself and his father and the agent was there as well at the same time. I don't think it (agent) was a factor at all.

"You'll have to make your mind up about this," continued O'Neill, "Whether, as some journalists are saying, you go and prostitute yourself about taking players who were not actually born in the country.

"Naturally, I would love if every single of one of these players were born and bred here but that may not necessarily be the case."

For what it's worth, I think Sweeney's article is poor. He makes a fair point in relation to our reliance on Irish nationals born outside of Ireland (even if he does seem to rather casually dismiss their personal feelings on Irish identity), which isn't ideal considering there's so much risk attached to it (as we saw from Grealish deciding to opt for England after years with us). As for his criticism of O'Neill's approach to Grealish, however, I think it's way off the mark. I think O'Neill handled it spot-on. He gave a young player time to make a difficult decision without exerting pressure; that's very reasonable. To accuse him of "whoring" himself is ridiculous; I never once got the impression that O'Neill was chasing after Grealish begging, so accusations of demeaning behaviour on O'Neill's part are misplaced. He also had a go at the FAI over the eligibility issue and seems to be in denial with regard to the agency of northern Irish nationals who opt to play for their country. Of course, the (intentional?) oversight of this fact logically enables him to accuse the FAI of "poaching/luring their promising young players/Catholics". He also accuses the FAI of having tried to persuade Jermaine Pennant to play for us. I thought Pennant was simply ignored when he voiced a sort of lukewarm interest, no?

[DannyInvincible]

Watchable documentary on Wayne Rooney last night, if a bit too softly softly. Frequently mentions his grandparents but never in the context of them being Irish.

It's on BBC iPlayer here, for anyone interested and with access: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06g67xt/rooney-the-man-behind-the-goals

[paul_oshea]

It's funny how you can have a feeling of being on the exact same wavelength as a journalist and thinking they really are spot on and then they write something you completely disagree with and discredits the journalists themselves.

maybe he was stuck for a piece.

[Stuttgart88]

Sweeney is usually very good

[boovidge]

He makes a fair point in relation to our reliance on Irish nationals born outside of Ireland (even if he does seem to rather casually dismiss their personal feelings on Irish identity)

Which I found pretty insulting really. He could have written a decent article about how Ireland should be growing its domestic game instead of relying on the English system for players (Irish born or not) but instead went on a pathetic rant that undermined the good points he did make.

[DannyInvincible]

Which I found pretty insulting really. He could have written a decent article about how Ireland should be growing its domestic game instead of relying on the English system for players (Irish born or not) but instead went on a pathetic rant that undermined the good points he did make.

Completely agree. I wasn't remotely defending that aspect of what he wrote. I was overlooking it, because it's a pretty lame point. Maybe I phrased that badly. The fundamental basis of what he was saying had merit, but he went about it in completely the wrong manner. It's not necessary to denigrate the identity of second or third generation Irish or the identity and agency of northern-born Irish nationals in order to emphasise the point that our reliance on players who've been developed outside of the FAI's system is a major issue requiring attention.

[Irwin3]

That article by Sweeney is a disgrace. He is all over the place. He says that we all know it is wrong to pick players with one Irish grandparent, when Grealish has three, so it would be right to pick him?? He talks about Keown playing for England and puts words in his mouth 'an Englishman should play for England', when Keown's own son chose to play for Ireland?? He also laments the opportunities that Donegal-born Gary Doherty has taken from Irish players?? An absolute clown.

[Olé Olé]

That article by Sweeney is a disgrace. He is all over the place. He says that we all know it is wrong to pick players with one Irish grandparent, when Grealish has three, so it would be right to pick him?? He talks about Keown playing for England and puts words in his mouth 'an Englishman should play for England', when Keown's own son chose to play for Ireland?? He also laments the opportunities that Donegal-born Gary Doherty has taken from Irish players?? An absolute clown.

The points re Doherty and Keown really, really irked me as they just demonstrated appalling lack of knowledge and/or research which is inexcusable when going off on such a tirade.

Then there was the simplification of the players from the North playing for us are "Catholics" and "Northern Ireland's achievement is even more impressive when you consider that in recent years we've been poaching their players."

I also found this very insulting: "For most of our imports an Irish cap is nothing more than an admission of failure."

The most embarrassing pile of crap I've read in a long time from someone who I thought would know better. I'd love for DI to pen a response to this. There's ample material to use as foundation for arguing most of his points.

[boovidge]

Completely agree. I wasn't remotely defending that aspect of what he wrote. I was overlooking it, because it's a pretty lame point. Maybe I phrased that badly. The fundamental basis of what he was saying had merit, but he went about it in completely the wrong manner. It's not necessary to denigrate the identity of second or third generation Irish or the identity and agency of northern-born Irish nationals in order to emphasise the point that our reliance on players who've been developed outside of the FAI's system is a major issue requiring attention.

Sorry Danny, hope you don't think I was having a pop at you! It was the article that ****** me off, not what you said.

[DeLorean]

I'd love for DI to pen a response to this. There's ample material to use as foundation for arguing most of his points.

I usually enjoy Sweeney too to be honest but, yeah, go get him Danny!

[Deckydee]

Watchable documentary on Wayne Rooney last night, if a bit too softly softly. Frequently mentions his grandparents but never in the context of them being Irish.

Hi OwlsFan,

Despite this name, Rooneys Irish-Ancestry is very very weak and or as Woy would say tenuous. According to what I know, only ONE of this grandparents are actually Irish, just one (Patricia Fitzsimons) but that's it. http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rooney-is-part-of-a-generation-irish-on-the-inside-26359427.html The other 3 I have never heard anything about, so its really grandparent and not grandparents for him anyway. Officially Rooney is a fifth-generation Irishman but that link, I cannot find.

If your such a brit, remove the irish/celtic cross mate. http://images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/58/photos/922000/214922.jpg

[Deckydee]

That article by Sweeney is a disgrace. He is all over the place. He says that we all know it is wrong to pick players with one Irish grandparent, when Grealish has three, so it would be right to pick him?? He talks about Keown playing for England and puts words in his mouth 'an Englishman should play for England', when Keown's own son chose to play for Ireland?? He also laments the opportunities that Donegal-born Gary Doherty has taken from Irish players?? An absolute clown.

This article is a DISGRACE. Never mind the whole article but his choice of words on Keown are wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Mr. Sweeney please have a look at the following article:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/the-irish-lionheart-defending-england-1.270762

More importantly to Keown, having played for England at under-18 and under-21 level, he did not make his full debut until he was 26. "I could very easily have played for Ireland and at one stage efforts were made to try and switch to the Republic of Ireland. I thought, and the club felt, I'd have a better international chance. But the rules in those days were that if you played at under-18 level then that was that. The decision was made very young."

That ceiling was then raised by FIFA to under-21 level, but only after Keown had played it. If there is any Keown regret today it is well-buried - he has, after all, won 28 England caps - but in that fallow spell before his first senior appearance against France in 1992, Keown wondered about the injustice of having to choose so early.

"Between the ages of 21 and 26, in those five years I never played international football, and in that period Jackie Charlton tried to get me to play for them, to lift the ruling. Before I played for the under-21s I put a brake on it because I thought I could play for the Republic. Then they (FIFA) said I couldn't, then they changed the rules.

Not to mention this: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/martin-keowns-son-declares-for-ireland-and-says-my-dad-took-plenty-of-stick-for-choosing-england-31054134.html

[Lionel Ritchie]

A very poor article by any standard. A phoned in piece of claptrap by the standards ES has set himself. Poorly researched, demanding black and white where grey is prevalent, a one dimensional poorly informed slant on the north-south dynamic in which he does everything wrong but mention the GFA.

Has he an interview coming up for The Sunday World or something?

[DannyInvincible]

I usually enjoy Sweeney too to be honest but, yeah, go get him Danny!


The most embarrassing pile of crap I've read in a long time from someone who I thought would know better. I'd love for DI to pen a response to this. There's ample material to use as foundation for arguing most of his points.

I've put something together for yous: https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com/2015/10/08/the-fais-selection-of-granny-rulers-and-northerners-a-response-to-eamonn-sweeney/

Let me know if there's anything I've overlooked or could articulate better!

[tetsujin1979]

Noticed that comments have been disabled on Sweeney's article, and the comments that were there have been removed.

[Olé Olé]

I've put something together for yous: https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com/2015/10/08/the-fais-selection-of-granny-rulers-and-northerners-a-response-to-eamonn-sweeney/

Let me know if there's anything I've overlooked or could articulate better!

Nothing overlooked. Hit all the points I could identify but wouldn't be able to articulate or explore as well as you. Brilliant stuff.

Loved the parallel with the Algerian national side. Here's a quick breakdown of the squad by birth:
GK
3 of their 4 goalkeepers born in Algeria, one in France
DF
Carl Medjani- Born in France and played for them until under- 21
Faouzi Ghoulam- Born in France and played for them until under-21. Plays for Napoli now so could be expected to be close to/in the France squad
Of the rest, 5 are Algerian-born and 2 are French-born
MF
Feghouli, Brahimi, Taider and Mahrez are all cracking players that were born in France. Taider's career has regressed but the other 3 could reasonably be expect to be selected by France and probably would be.
Of the rest of the midfielders in the squad, all 4 were born in France too
FW
Slimani and Belfodil are the best-known here with both being born in Algeria. However, Belfodil played underage for France.
The other 3 were born in Algeria also.

So, that's 13 players born in Algeria and 13 born in France but not one of the midfielders was born in Algeria and Brahimi and Mahrez are, at present, their best players, I would imagine.

[gastric]

To accommodate Stu, putting this article on Crowley here. It seems Crowley might be a bit on the arrogant side and I read somewhere in the last few days that he can be difficult to work with. Should get on really well then with our assistant manager.


http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/michael-walker-crowley-a-rare-talent-worth-nurturing-1.2385850

[SkStu]

Interesting that he remains pretty non committal to either side. He's with England, would be very easy for him to use that to make this go away if his mind is made up. Even the "well I'm with the England u19s now, just want to do well with them and focus on getting time at Barnsley/Arsenal" line could have closed the door (while maybe leaving it unlocked).

[Olé Olé]

This one could run on. Grealish waited until he had established himself at Villa before switching to England. Crowley is, similarly, stating a desire to focus on getting his game at club level. As we can remember, Grealish was happy to play for us while with Notts County- a similar position to Crowley on loan at Barnsley in League One.

I guess it's good that contact has been initiated and he seems non-committal. I'll be delighted if this lad ends up representing us. Would be a reminder to some of the cynics (e.g. Eamon Sweeney) that some of the disapora actually do give a damn.

[nigel-harps1954]

Personally, despite their talents, I wish we'd stop chasing these lads. I wish the media would stop talking about them. And I wish we focused more on what we have, and could have, already in the squads and at home.

Look at the current under-19 squad, 7 of them are home based, home grown players. At least three of them have first team appearances at their clubs. That's the kind of player we should be focusing on now. Develop our own, feck these English academies, and feck chasing English born players who are undecided over who they want to play for.

[Stuttgart88]

Dean Saunders was on Sky talking about Wales' success. He said that Toshack (under whom Saunders worked as assistant) decided he'd had enough of constant failure and decided to blood a young team, almost certain in the knowledge they'd fail again, but on the basis that if the group stayed together for 6 years they might have a chance. Most of this current team were among that crop.

Now, it clearly helps when one is Gareth Bale and if course Saunders will give credit to the management team he was a part of but it probably holds true to some degree.

In Ireland's case there doesn't even appear to be any consistency from one under age squad from game to game, let alone season to season, throughout the age groups. Or am I mistaken?

[gastric]

Good/bad news on Crowley, if you get my drift, from an Irish perspective.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-3293586/Arsenal-teenager-Dan-Crowley-sees-loan-spell-Barnsley-cut-short-struggling-make-impact-Oakwell.html

[back of the net]

Barnsley Manager Lee Johnson on Crowleys return to Arsenal:

"I think that Dan's had a fantastic time here, we've really enjoyed working with him. He's probably one of the best, or the best, or most talented 18-year-olds I've ever seen.

I came through the ranks at Arsenal as well, so there's players like Ashley Cole that I include in that, players that have had very good careers. For me, it was fantastic to work with him.

I'd love to work with him someday in the future, because I believe at some point this boy will play for the England national team, if he can iron out the little bits that will come through maturing and playing in a different level."

[gastric]

Kwame Ampadu's son, Ethan, is still playing for Wales, so come on Kwame sort it out!

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/sport/soccer/articles/2015/11/04/4108702-three-meath-players-feature-against-wales/

[liamoo11]

He is in the England set up as well

[OwlsFan]

Barnsley Manager Lee Johnson on Crowleys return to Arsenal:

"I think that Dan's had a fantastic time here, we've really enjoyed working with him. He's probably one of the best, or the best, or most talented 18-year-olds I've ever seen.

I came through the ranks at Arsenal as well, so there's players like Ashley Cole that I include in that, players that have had very good careers. For me, it was fantastic to work with him.

I'd love to work with him someday in the future, because I believe at some point this boy will play for the England national team, if he can iron out the little bits that will come through maturing and playing in a different level."

Didn't Barnsley lose even game though?

[DeLorean]

I think we should try to get the ball moving on Bamford to try to avoid situations like tonight. He's not seeing much game time at Palace and is a smart guy, it should become fairly obvious to him that his England chances will be way, way off at best. MON would probably still chose a battering ram over him anyway but he'd be a great man to spring from the bench in Long's absence. Just a thought, no need for a 'we should concentrate more on producing our own players' onslaught. :)

[Deckydee]

We should wait IMO :) They will be coming to us now :)

[Kingdom]

I think we should try to get the ball moving on Bamford to try to avoid situations like tonight. He's not seeing much game time at Palace and is a smart guy, it should become fairly obvious to him that his England chances will be way, way off at best. MON would probably still chose a battering ram over him anyway but he'd be a great man to spring from the bench in Long's absence. Just a thought, no need for a 'we should concentrate more on producing our own players' onslaught. :)

Bamford would act as a great foil to Walters, particularly in games where Wes may not be favoured.

[backstothewall]

Bamford would act as a great foil to Walters, particularly in games where Wes may not be favoured.

If we could get him and Connor Wickham at the same time it would be a lovely bit of work.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd prefer if we stuck with players who actually want to play for us. It would be hugely dispiriting to the current group and the next generation if we start chasing people who've explicitly refused us before.

[DeLorean]

I don't think it needs to be a chase, a simple inquiry and leave it up to the player then. If he accepts, it means he actually wants to play for us, if he doesn't then just let it go. Timing could be everything though and I'm not really talking about luring guys with the carrot of playing in the Euros. Cyrus Christie is a good example of a decent player we efficiently acquired without any distraction or fuss.

[Fixer82]

If we could get him and Connor Wickham at the same time it would be a lovely bit of work.

Wickham is hardly Irish. Wasn't his Da in the British Army in Belfast just? I was sure that was the only connection. Am I wrong?
Plus he's played for England all the way up so I'd leave him. Let's get some lads with proper irish connection who aren't posting up poppies on Twitter every November

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think it needs to be a chase, a simple inquiry and leave it up to the player then. If he accepts, it means he actually wants to play for us, if he doesn't then just let it go. Timing could be everything though and I'm not really talking about luring guys with the carrot of playing in the Euros. Cyrus Christie is a good example of a decent player we efficiently acquired without any distraction or fuss.
Chase was probably an exaggeration. Bringing in anybody who's been asked before and shown no interest whatsoever would be a kick in the teeth.

[Stuttgart88]

Some of these are quite funny. Nothing offensive.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/uefa-euro-2016/jack-grealish-trolled-mercilessly-by-fans-as-republic-of-ireland-qualifies-for-euro-2016/ar-BBn7KwD?li=AA572I&ocid=iehp

[DeLorean]

Chase was probably an exaggeration. Bringing in anybody who's been asked before and shown no interest whatsoever would be a kick in the teeth.

I wouldn't disagree with that, don't think Bamford fits that description though really.

[backstothewall]

Wickham is hardly Irish. Wasn't his Da in the British Army in Belfast just? I was sure that was the only connection. Am I wrong?
Plus he's played for England all the way up so I'd leave him. Let's get some lads with proper irish connection who aren't posting up poppies on Twitter every November

His dad was born in the north so i would assume it was maybe his grandfather who did the whole carrying a rifle around Belfast, met a girl here, etc. We can only speculate about if he would be interested, but if he is what his dad thinks about politics, or what his grandad did for a living wouldn't put me off him. If we were only to pick players who didn't wear poppies we would have a squad of 1.

The NI fans would also flip their collective lids, which is always a bonus.

[Stuttgart88]

That Tabi bloke who played for our U17s has just defected to England.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/fai-lose-out-to-england-in-battle-for-u17-arsenal-starlet-34218104.html

[TrapAPony]

3 Irish grandparents too apparently. Another Michael Keane/Jack Grealish on our hands...