Potentially eligible players thread

[Stuttgart88]

Great chat here ( starts around ten mins) on Noble.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/813/641818/

Sadlier pragmatic and says he has no problem. Kenny Cunningham more emotional, says he likes the 5-6 lads we have available in CM and has no time for a guy who hadn't shown any keenness to play for us. Great viewing. I support Kenny.

[Charlie Darwin]

Kenny passes my gut test every time.

[TrapAPony]

I support Richard.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Getting capped by their country is the career highlight of many young footballers. We are not Noble's country. I don't want someone who doesn't even want it taking a squad place from someone who has worked their entire career towards reaching this accolade.

We have better players anyways. England struggle to qualify for every tournament in weak groups. If he isn't anywhere on their radar, he is not going to be drastically better than what we have.

And again, his general demeanor begs the question of what his attitude will be like if he doesn't get in the team? And if he walks straight into the team what does that message send?

[tricky_colour]

I'd give Noble the benefit of the doubt on this one purely because it hasn't gained any traction.

Same Redditor posted this comment.

"Seriously.

It's worth noting that the crowd was giving the English players a fair bit of abuse (not so much from the family section mind, but I suppose it can be hard to tell where it's coming from when concentrating on the game).

Noble doesn't have a well known history of lashing out at supporters, but he did that game. Probably more as a reaction to the boos each English touch got more than a deep hatred of Ireland, but that's still a completely unacceptable thing for a future Irish international to scream at Irish supporters."


Which game?

[tricky_colour]

What about the generation in between; his parents? Can't they dilute, enhance or influence the determination of this specific measure?



Wayne Rooney and Gary Cahill are from Irish backgrounds. Phil Jagielka is of Polish extraction. Andros Townsend is of Greek Cypriot and Jamaican descent. Danny Welbeck's roots are Ghanaian. Such "diluted" identities have never put the FA off selecting these players. Who else, besides poor Noble, has fallen victim to this alleged "rule"? If you're English and good enough, you'll get called up; if you're English and not quite good enough, you won't. I don't see why the "being English enough" factor would even come into play. What evidence is there to support your suspicion?

No if your have 2 Irish grandparents then you have 50% Irish blood so you either have and one english and one Irish parent or you have 2 parents who are 50% Irish.
I suspect he has one parent of each nationality, that is the way I look at it anyway, blood if thicker than water.

England have been a flop for 50 years, under achievers for 50 years, the evidence is staring you in the face, ie Mark Nobel, were he 100% English
I have little doubt he would have been capped by now. Exhibit #2 is Kevin Nolan, the Nolan sisters made him unselectable for England. I rest my case!!!

[tricky_colour]

Yeah I'm sure everybody would get over the blow if he got the winner in an important game, we're resilient like that.

So.. you don't think he will every be fully accepted then :)

[tricky_colour]

You're Pierce Brosnan's nephew?! Why didn't you say? :p

The name's Bond, Paddy O'Bond.

[Olé Olé]

O'Brien had his chance. Stan invited him into the squad for the US tour in 2007 but O'Brien declined. He wasn't all that bothered about international football by the sounds of things: http://www.espnfc.com/story/433303



Was Sadlier making a connection between Noble and O'Brien?

Well, yeah. The link he was drawing was that if an Irish player is half-arsed then they're a waste of time. Same principle applies for a half-arsed English-born player playing for Ireland. On the other hand, a fully-committed, English-born player would be, in Sadlier's view, worth pursuing and in spite of the comments that Noble has made of late.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Ronnie O'Brien probably played little more than a dozen matches after that story. Also, he had just returned from one of a myriad of injuries that dogged his career. He retired at 28 for God's sake. It's ridiculous to compare his situation to Noble's for any number of reasons, not least the fact that the latter isn't remotely Irish.

[Crosby87]

What if he's had Irish in him?

[Stuttgart88]

It's ridiculous to compare his situation to Noble's for any number of reasons, not least the fact that the latter [Noble] isn't remotely Irish.
The problem exists precisely because Noble is remotely Irish.

[gastric]

Ronnie O'Brien probably played little more than a dozen matches after that story. Also, he had just returned from one of a myriad of injuries that dogged his career. He retired at 28 for God's sake. It's ridiculous to compare his situation to Noble's for any number of reasons, not least the fact that the latter isn't remotely Irish.

Mr Ad Nauseam, can I just point out to you that Noble is more Irish than Noe Baba and Tony Cascarino. Are you implying that we should not play Baba because 'he isn't remotely Irish'? If they qualify for an Irish passport, they are Irish in the eyes of the judiciary and that should be good enough for everybody. You really need to stop the emotional and inflammatory outbursts which can cause offence.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

You bringing up Noe Baba is more offensive than anything I said, gastric. I've met the lad and he doesn't belong in the same sentence as Noble. He's been in Ireland since he was a young child, speaks with an Irish accent, has been coached in Ireland and has played with dedication for this country.

It's offensive to me that Mark Noble is being touted as an Irish International. I don't want the likes of him - and his attitude - playing for my country. Stuff like this is making a mockery of the game. If it was Diego Costa or Deco I might lose sleep over it but Mark Noble? Jesus wept we aren't that bad.

[gastric]

My comments weren't offensive, they were trying to show you that your comment about being 'remotely Irish' were wrong. So an Irish accent and living in Ireland plus if a player is world class are your criteria for playing for Ireland? Yes, your views are offensive, irrational and emotional. So should we not let Noble have an Irish passport because he doesn't meet your criteria? Jesus certainly is weeping.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

It's pretty simple gastric. Mark Noble is not motivated enough to play for Ireland and if he does it is for all the wrong reasons. You are entitled to your opinions and so am I. I don't think I have ever belittled yours quite like you have just belittled mine? *Open to correction on that*

If you think Noble is going to drastically change our fortunes and if you have no problem with a 27 year old coming in to take the place of an Irish player once he finally realises he isn't good enough for England, that's your prerogative.

Yes! I do think having an Irish upbringing, Irish accent, Irish schooling, Irish coaching, playing for your country all through the age groups and captaining your country all count for something, gastric.

I was sarcastic when I brought up Diego Costa and Deco. Their defections to Spain and Portugal sum up a lot of what is wrong with modern football, but they are/were some of the best footballers in the world.

We are talking about Mark Noble, who - no disrespect - is not able to get a squad place for the worst England team in over twenty years.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think this discussion on who is "more Irish" belittles us all. As far as I'm concerned, if you consider yourself Irish, that's good enough for me. Baba does, Cascarino presumably does to some extent, even if they weren't born here or even lived here in Cas's case. Noble doesn't seem to consider himself Irish in any real sense, which is his right.

[gastric]

My issue is your comment that 'he is not remotely Irish'. He is entitled to an Irish passport and therefore Irish if he so decides. What I don't understand, and hence my sarcasm, is what you believe makes someone Irish. Granted, Noble's motivations are presently questionable, but don't use the phrase 'remotely Irish.' As someone whose children are entitled to both Australian and Irish passports, I take offence to your comments. O'Neill and Roy will do what is best for success in Irish football and I support what they are doing. That is their brief and making the Euro Finals is what is important. As I said before, your comments are emotional and idealistic and lack logic.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Do you honestly think Mark Noble considers himself Irish in any way? Yes. He's entitled to an Irish passport and won't get one until he decides he wants to play International football. Go figure.

OK if you think bringing Mark Noble into the squad is the secret to reaching the Euro finals, that's your opinion. I think something else entirely.

To me, your comments are just as emotional, idealistic and lacking in logic as mine.

[gastric]

Do you honestly think Mark Noble considers himself Irish in any way? Yes. He's entitled to an Irish passport and won't get one until he decides he wants to play International football. Go figure.

OK if you think bringing Mark Noble into the squad is the secret to reaching the Euro finals, that's your opinion. I think something else entirely.

To me, your comments are just as emotional, idealistic and lacking in logic as mine.


As I have said before, nationality is a journey and Noble may be starting his. His background means legally he is entitled to an Irish passport which does not make him 'remotely Irish'. He is another option in midfield, not the saviour. With a population of 4.6 million we need all the options we can muster. I do not how you can find this statement emotional, it is just factual.

[Crosby87]

You can see their point though TOWK, right? You come off as a tad xenophobic sometimes. I for one am quite proud of my Irish blood, but my accent is more Bobby Deniro than Bobby Sands.

[Charlie Darwin]

You can see their point though TOWK, right? You come off as a tad xenophobic sometimes. I for one am quite proud of my Irish blood, but my accent is more Bobby Deniro than Bobby Sands.
I've long suspected you have had more than a little bit of Irish in you.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

You can see their point though TOWK, right? You come off as a tad xenophobic sometimes. I for one am quite proud of my Irish blood, but my accent is more Bobby Deniro than Bobby Sands.

Because I said Mark Noble isn't remotely Irish? He would probably agree with me. I don't think he'd be offended by my saying that at all.

Why do I always have to be the bad guy? You would almost swear I made a controversial statement like "Kevin Kilbane isn't remotely Irish".

[gastric]

Because I said Mark Noble isn't remotely Irish? He would probably agree with me. I don't think he'd be offended by my saying that at all.

Why do I always have to be the bad guy? You would almost swear I made a controversial statement like "Kevin Kilbane isn't remotely Irish".

For God's sake, rather than play the victim starting LISTENING! Your comments often cause offence. Many on here have tried to explain to you why they cause offence, but you simply trivialise their opinions. Your concept of Irishness alienates many, is not in line with Irish law and is simplistic and myopic. Could you please start to try and comprehend why this is so!

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

gastric, could you please be a little balanced and acknowledge the fact that my hostility and suspicion towards Noble is shared by a lot of Irish football fans and even a lot of lads on this forum. Thank you.

I think you are ruling with your heart and not your head on this one.

And your comment about Baba - offended is a strong word - didn't sit right with me either so let's just shake hands and call it a night.

[gastric]

Again, you fail to listen. It is your concept of Irishness that causes offence and alienates many on here. Irishness is more than accents, where they trained or footballing ability. it is about to be accepted as Irish outside of your myopic, simplistic view.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

My concept of Irishness? It really has nothing to do with Irishness, gastric. Wayne Rooney is more in touch with his Irish roots than Mark Noble but he is playing for England because he is English and he is good enough to play for England. Mark Noble is not in touch with his Irish roots, wants to play for England and Ireland is a fall back option. His Irish heritage is not a badge of honor but a tool he can use to attain International football. This is not conjecture on my part.

I'm not insensitive or clueless as to what constitutes Irishness. Kevin Kilbane, for all his faults, is proud of his Irish background. Jack Grealish and Daniel Crowley are too; though ultimately I don't think this is what is delaying Jack's decision as to what country he will declare for.

I think it is frankly ridiculous to put Noble on a pedestal with Noe Baba and Ronnie O'Brien when Noble is a proud Englishman and O'Brien is a proud Irishman. Baba too; why he is he any less Irish just because he was born in Cameroon? He came to this country just before he turned 10 and he has gained all of his International caps for Ireland. He has served Ireland with distinction and loyalty, with words and actions; unlike Noble.

Yes. I am quite aware that I rub some people up the wrong way sometimes but it is not my intention to do so, gastric. I am opinionated and I offer no apologies for that. There is really no need to speak on behalf of others in an effort to demean me.

Now can we agree to disagree again?

[gastric]

My concept of Irishness? It really has nothing to do with Irishness, gastric. Wayne Rooney is more in touch with his Irish roots than Mark Noble but he is playing for England because he is English and he is good enough to play for England. Mark Noble is not in touch with his Irish roots, wants to play for England and Ireland is a fall back option. His Irish heritage is not a badge of honor but a tool he can use to attain International football. This is not conjecture on my part.

I'm not insensitive or clueless as to what constitutes Irishness. Kevin Kilbane, for all his faults, is proud of his Irish background. Jack Grealish and Daniel Crowley are too; though ultimately I don't think this is what is delaying Jack's decision as to what country he will declare for.

I think it is frankly ridiculous to put Noble on a pedestal with Noe Baba and Ronnie O'Brien when Noble is a proud Englishman and O'Brien is a proud Irishman. Baba too; why he is he any less Irish just because he was born in Cameroon? He came to this country just before he turned 10 and he has gained all of his International caps for Ireland. He has served Ireland with distinction and loyalty, with words and actions; unlike Noble.

Yes. I am quite aware that I rub some people up the wrong way sometimes but it is not my intention to do so, gastric. I am opinionated and I offer no apologies for that. There is really no need to speak on behalf of others in an effort to demean me.

Now can we agree to disagree again?

Demean you? You do that yourself TOWK. Your inability to comprehend explains why 'you are always the bad guy' on here to quote you. I don't know why you feel it necessary to lecture me about Noe Baba. I accept him completely as an Irishman, my point was that technically Noble has more ancestral Irish roots than Baba, and like Baba, can claim to be Irish, just as my kids can and as Crosby can, despite his accent and quirky posts! That journey might just start for Noble if he declares for us. Who are you to judge others' journey? Your posts are narrow minded and as Crosby said possibly 'a tad xenophobic' and it seems your comprehension skills are ordinary too.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Peeps,
Does it Really matter?
Noble & 99% of Irish soccer players don't care what we think...

[tetsujin1979]

Alright, enough. Back on topic.
There's a thread for debating nationality, eligibility, etc - use it.

[tetsujin1979]

last post moved to the eligibility thread. next time I have to move a post, the author can have a week to think about their next one.

[DannyInvincible]

Sorry, tets. I thought it would be kosher as I was discussing two players featured in the thread title, but it won't happen again, I swear.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000578079/polls_PuppyDogEyes_5408_380597_poll_xlarge.jpeg

[Crosby87]

This moderation thing has really changed you tets. I miss the old Adam of a kinder gentler time. The Adam that threw himself on top of a lime thrown by Faroe Islands fans at us because you thought it was a hand grenade. The Adam who talked POSH off of that rooftop after the Henry hand of God. The Adam who gently told a tearful Charlie Darwin that Michael Jackson had died. The Adam who picked Stutts up off his feet and twirled him high in the air to the delight of all the guests at the 2010 Foot.ie Charity Christmas ball. The Adam that................

[Charlie Darwin]

........the Adam that went to Crackbird?

[osarusan]

Noble doesn't seem to consider himself Irish in any real sense, which is his right.

This seems to be true, but I wouldn't have any problem with him playing for Ireland even if he felt that way. As long as he could make a worthwhile contribution on the pitch and improve us as a team, I'm not bothered.

[Charlie Darwin]

This seems to be true, but I wouldn't have any problem with him playing for Ireland even if he felt that way. As long as he could make a worthwhile contribution on the pitch and improve us as a team, I'm not bothered.
Fair enough, but international football isn't like club football to me. If somebody isn't Irish, they shouldn't be playing for Ireland.

[Charlie Darwin]

Segment on Soccer Republic now with Clinton Morrison and other former internationals talking about Noble for Ireland.

[DannyInvincible]

McAteer claims he was asked to represent England a week before Jack called him up, but we were always his preference so he went with us. I'd never known that. How did he qualify again?

[gastric]

What's Clinton's opinion? He reminds me of Noble in terms of his desire to initially represent England before declaring for us.

[Charlie Darwin]

McAteer claims he was asked to represent England a week before Jack called him up, but we were always his preference so he went with us. I'd never known that. How did he qualify again?
McAteer's grandparents are Irish, I believe. I don't know who asked him to represent England (John something) but it must have been the senior team as he was 23 at the time Jack called him up.

gastric, Clinton said it's understandable if you take a month or two over the decision, but Noble has been humming and hawing for two years now and he reckons the current squad members won't accept him if he does declare. Kilbane said anyone after U21 when they've gone through all the England youth teams, it's too late and Ireland shouldn't be your consolation prize.

[DannyInvincible]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxC6BL3IEAA43pK.jpg

[DannyInvincible]

McAteer's grandparents are Irish, I believe. I don't know who asked him to represent England (John something) but it must have been the senior team as he was 23 at the time Jack called him up.

Were they from the north? For some reason, I thought he had northern connections. Maybe Down?

Didn't catch the surname of the John either. I'm sure Balls.ie or someone will YouTube the segment.

Edit: The episode is on RTÉ Player now anyway: http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10321894/

The segment on Noble begins at 38 minutes.

[Charlie Darwin]

Were they from the north? For some reason, I thought he had northern connections. Maybe Down?

Didn't catch the surname of the John either. I'm sure Balls.ie or someone will YouTube the segment.
Not sure, to be honest. Google is telling me Derry but the only source is a message board.

I know the name of the guy McAteer said but I'm just drawing a blank.

[TrapAPony]

Segment on Soccer Republic now with Clinton Morrison and other former internationals talking about Noble for Ireland.

Kerr said it's the managers job to use the rules, Clinton said it's a no brainer and Stuart Byrne said it doesn't sit easy with him.

[DannyInvincible]

Kerr said it's the managers job to use the rules

Yet he was critical of the FAI selecting northern players a few years back.

[Charlie Darwin]

Kerr said it's the managers job to use the rules, Clinton said it's a no brainer and the other lad said it doesn't sit easy with him.
Stuey Byrne.

[Charlie Darwin]

Yet he was critical of the FAI selecting northern players a few years back.
Seems to have gotten over his bitterness a bit alright.

[Closed Account]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/mcateer-raises-the-premium-1572620.html
The day before Bolton played Oldham in the sixth round of the FA Cup, McAteer had a visitor. It was Jimmy Armfield, "with a message direct from Terry Venables" offering the midfielder a place in the England B squad. McAteer, stunned and delighted, accepted. But on the day of the match, who should pull up in the car park but Jack Charlton. Now there was the prospect of a full cap for the Republic of Ireland, for whom McAteer was also qualified through an Irish-born grandfather.
"It was a big decision, the biggest since when I left school," McAteer said. And when the difficult call rejecting England had to be made, it was Bruce Rioch, the Bolton manager, who picked up the phone. "I stayed out of Jimmy Armfield's way for a while, I can tell you," McAteer said. "Though funnily enough, I saw him a couple of weeks ago and he shook my hand and said `Well done'." With 12 caps to McAteer's name - it probably would have become 13 on Wednesday had he not been withdrawn from the squad to play England - how could Armfield have said otherwise?

[Charlie Darwin]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/mcateer-raises-the-premium-1572620.html
The day before Bolton played Oldham in the sixth round of the FA Cup, McAteer had a visitor. It was Jimmy Armfield, "with a message direct from Terry Venables" offering the midfielder a place in the England B squad. McAteer, stunned and delighted, accepted. But on the day of the match, who should pull up in the car park but Jack Charlton. Now there was the prospect of a full cap for the Republic of Ireland, for whom McAteer was also qualified through an Irish-born grandfather.
"It was a big decision, the biggest since when I left school," McAteer said. And when the difficult call rejecting England had to be made, it was Bruce Rioch, the Bolton manager, who picked up the phone. "I stayed out of Jimmy Armfield's way for a while, I can tell you," McAteer said. "Though funnily enough, I saw him a couple of weeks ago and he shook my hand and said `Well done'." With 12 caps to McAteer's name - it probably would have become 13 on Wednesday had he not been withdrawn from the squad to play England - how could Armfield have said otherwise?
Jimmy Armfield, thank you! I was thinking Arneson for some reason and all that brought up was Frank Arnesen. That's basically what McAteer said. He was called by Armfield and he was delighted with that but he was holding hope that Jack would ring him, and then when he was offered a "full" cap he jumped at it.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Apologies if this link was already posted, or feel free to switch to Eligibility thread?
(Maybe the two threads should be merged?)

http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/premier-leagues-young-stars-ireland-miss