Potentially eligible players thread

[JR89]

U19 Euros are outside of FIFA windows so even if he wanted to go it's up to his clubs. The year we qualified with our 2000 age group we had to bring our B team because clubs wouldn't release players.

That's the year Joe Hodge played and impressed with Afolabi getting into the team of the tournament.

[Paddy Garcia]

I dunno.

I would imagine Brendan Rodgers would have influence and that probably doesn't help.


Curious why Rodgers would not be a help? I think his son played underage for us and would have had a choice.

[EalingGreen]

Curious why Rodgers would not be a help? I think his son played underage for us and would have had a choice.
BR in 2011:
"[My son playing for ROI] is not something that can't be rectified," said Rodgers. "I spoke with Gerry Armstrong recently as I'm a big advocate of Northern Ireland.
"I want to see Northern Ireland boys play for Northern Ireland and the reason my son is playing for the Republic is simple - they asked him while he was never asked to play for Northern Ireland."
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/anton-rodgers-set-to-switch-his-allegiance-from-republic/28661623.html

While he's also said this:
"I would love to [manage Northern Ireland] at some point in my career"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/16094882

And as a youngster, he himself played under-age football for NI:
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhVwEOkBhbuAUHNHKPTx0ylw1-1JKlMGFRgtrebYliW3Hw912HcbjO3FfMpfZ09JGlwVwEoB4cKJ Oph7vqP6JWUcauPL-v93BjCDMu9bpq_DgZ5OEcXOpjJijOoiGQpfOWG4xDr/s640/036.jpg

Brendan (incidentally Nigel Worthington's cousin) has always been very supportive of NI teams and players. :good:

[Eirambler]

Not directly Ireland related but I see Scotland have lost Elliot Anderson to a nationality switch today, he's gone to England to play Under 21s and once he plays for England Under 21s he won't be eligible for Scotland again.

Just shows how hard it is, Scotland who have actually been qualifying for tournaments in recent years can't keep hold of a player who would easily be in their senior squad as he'd rather play Under 21 for England than playing for Scotland's senior team - or even keep his options open by avoiding international football for a year or two.

[CraftyToePoke]

I think they managed to rescue that situation from as far gone as Elliot being named in a senior squad who were bound for the finals in the summer.

Their squad for the upcoming games also has Valentino Francisco Livramento, Scottish mother, Portuguese father who is now 21 and that looks like a cap tie scenario to me but he's happy to go along.

[Eirambler]

Omari Hutchinson is another very interesting one in the England under 21 squad.

He played a competitive game for England Under 19s in 2021.

Then appeared to use his "one time switch" to declare for Jamaica, winning two senior caps for them in friendlies just last year.

Now he's in the England Under 21 squad.

Although he switched it appears Jamaica never tied him as he only played friendlies for them. Shows again that it's competitive games that count when it comes to tying players, friendlies alone are no good (eg Cannon and Azaz are not tied to us despite their friendly caps, some mistakenly think they are).

Nothing to stop him playing for England this month and switching back to Jamaica again afterwards either, as far as I can tell.

[Eirambler]

I would worry that both Liam Delap and Louie Barry might fall into that category of lads who didn’t have a passport / weren’t on the foreign births register when they played underage for England first.

Obviously Ryan Johansson got around it eventually - but it might not be straightforward for either.

Same with CJ Egan O’Reilly, Michael Golding etc.


Often lads with irish parents, grandparents etc play for the u16s without getting a passport sorted because it’s not competitive.

And until the Luxembourg FA put a protest in, no one knew it was an issue


Liam Delap in particular could become ineligible if he plays another game for their U21s if his citizenship situation isn't sorted.


As you can maybe tell from my previous posts on this thread today I've fallen down a bit of a hole this afternoon in terms of looking into quirks of the eligibility rules.

But probably the most interesting thing I have found is the cases of Nedim Bajrami and Maarten Paes, and how they might impact on the eligibility of granny rulers to play for Ireland going forward.

Both played competitive international Under 21 football after their 21st birthdays (Bajrami for Switzerland and Paes for Netherlands).

Both then sought to switch nations, despite not formally holding the nationality of the country they were switching to previously (basically both are granny rulers, Bajrami wanted to switch to Albania and Paes to Indonesia).

Both requests were turned down by FIFA but those decisions were overturned by our old friends at CAS. The detail of the Paes one is yet to be released, but the Bajrami one has been and is very interesting from an Irish perspective. The CAS ruling is that not having gone through a paperwork exercise to formally gain citizenship is not enough of a reason to deny a switch, provided the appropriate lineage can be shown. Basically, the player doesn't need to have had citizenship, they just need to have had a grandparent born in the country they want to represent.

Long story short, it looks like CAS have bombed out the issue raised initially by the Luxembourg FA which caused all the problems for Ryan Johansson, and was thought to potentially create problems for any future Louie Barry/Liam Delap switch. My reading of it now is that, following the CAS decision for Bajrami, Barry and Delap will remain Ireland eligible until such time as England cap them in a competitive game for their senior team.

[liamoo11]

As you can maybe tell from my previous posts on this thread today I've fallen down a bit of a hole this afternoon in terms of looking into quirks of the eligibility rules.

But probably the most interesting thing I have found is the cases of Nedim Bajrami and Maarten Paes, and how they might impact on the eligibility of granny rulers to play for Ireland going forward.

Both played competitive international Under 21 football after their 21st birthdays (Bajrami for Switzerland and Paes for Netherlands).

Both then sought to switch nations, despite not formally holding the nationality of the country they were switching to previously (basically both are granny rulers, Bajrami wanted to switch to Albania and Paes to Indonesia).

Both requests were turned down by FIFA but those decisions were overturned by our old friends at CAS. The detail of the Paes one is yet to be released, but the Bajrami one has been and is very interesting from an Irish perspective. The CAS ruling is that not having gone through a paperwork exercise to formally gain citizenship is not enough of a reason to deny a switch, provided the appropriate lineage can be shown. Basically, the player doesn't need to have had citizenship, they just need to have had a grandparent born in the country they want to represent.

Long story short, it looks like CAS have bombed out the issue raised initially by the Luxembourg FA which caused all the problems for Ryan Johansson, and was thought to potentially create problems for any future Louie Barry/Liam Delap switch. My reading of it now is that, following the CAS decision for Bajrami, Barry and Delap will remain Ireland eligible until such time as England cap them in a competitive game for their senior team.

That would be great, seems fairer

[ColourfulPeanut]

The U21 cap after the age of 21 is a ridiculous rule anyway. The cap doesn't become more meaningful soon as you turn 21, it's the same as your previous cap. It's still youth football no matter what way they paint it. Should be soon as you play a single minute of senior football after 21, you're done. I have no clue why they brought in the stupid U21 rule.

In the current setup you can have lads who have played 3 senior qualifiers being allowed to switch when a player who has a single U21 cap isn't

[Olé Olé]

Jacob Devaney has been called up to the 19s.

[EalingGreen]

I dunno.

I would imagine Brendan Rodgers would have influence [on Francis Turley] and that probably doesn't help.

On top of that, he's played in the 19s Euros for NI. He's probably well settled there.
Turley has just been called up by the IFA for an U-19 mini-tournament later this week also involving Norway (hosts) and Sweden.


I don't think the vast, vast majority these lads are keen to switch at all and few have, if you think about how many lads from Nationalist backgrounds or areas are in the NI squads. Yep - squad details:

https://www.irishfa.com/media/55434/squad-copy-2.jpg

[tetsujin1979]

Noticed Aran Fitzpatrick came on for Carlisle against Nottingham Forest's U21s earlier.
According to transfermarkt, his nationality is Irish
Only his second appearance for Carlisle, he made his debut in April against Wycombe
https://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/news/2024/april/interview-i-was-just-so-chuffed-to-be-coming-on

[samhaydenjr]

Really need to sound out Louie Barry - fourth goal in five games this season in the EFL Trophy tonight against Accrington Stanley: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/live/c8jlkl33ymet#Line-ups

[third policeman]

Thomas Hill named in Liverpool's Champions League Squad. Represented us but more recently turned out for Wales U21s. His development has been hampered by injuries but appears to be impressing Slot in PL2 this season.

[elatedscum]

I think it’s as much, he’s overage and they had 2 spaces free. So might as well register him

[pineapple stu]

Jack Porter became Arsenal's youngest ever player to start a game last night - turned 16 in July. Plays in nets; takes the record of Cesc Fabregas.

An English underage international, but his father is from Dublin, so eligible for us too.

[Buckett]

Fair play to him. Starting in goals at 16 is incredible

[seanfhear]

Fair play to him. Starting in goals at 16 is incredible
Can't even drink Porter in a pub legally !

[Olé Olé]

Absolute mess of an article by Rowan in the Times today.

He must be on his jollies because he had a piece a few weeks back visiting Ipswich. He held onto some quotes and cobbled together an article for today it seems on the Irish players at the club. Szmodics, O'Shea, Ogbene, Taylor..

However, he also put in references to Delap being eligible. Right in saying he's not now for 3 years?

Worst thing about the piece was that there's a theme of question he kept putting to Kieran McKenna about him signing Irish players, the Irish players playing Gaelic football (Ogbene and O'Shea) and getting Irish qualified players to claim for us. McKenna shut it all down. Says he signed Szmodics because he was top scorer in the Championship. Says he has never spoken to O'Shea or Ogbene about Gaelic (a sport at which he excelled himself) and said he wouldn't be talking to Delap about his international allegiances.

Pretty cringe stuff from start to finish.

[samhaydenjr]

Absolute mess of an article by Rowan in the Times today.

He must be on his jollies because he had a piece a few weeks back visiting Ipswich. He held onto some quotes and cobbled together an article for today it seems on the Irish players at the club. Szmodics, O'Shea, Ogbene, Taylor..

However, he also put in references to Delap being eligible. Right in saying he's not now for 3 years?

Worst thing about the piece was that there's a theme of question he kept putting to Kieran McKenna about him signing Irish players, the Irish players playing Gaelic football (Ogbene and O'Shea) and getting Irish qualified players to claim for us. McKenna shut it all down. Says he signed Szmodics because he was top scorer in the Championship. Says he has never spoken to O'Shea or Ogbene about Gaelic (a sport at which he excelled himself) and said he wouldn't be talking to Delap about his international allegiances.

Pretty cringe stuff from start to finish.

Yeah, think I read that any appearance in this Autumn's U21 qualifiers would tie him to England for three years, and he came on as a second-half sub against Northern Ireland. And if the rule is three years after his last U21 cap, I think it's safe to assume that the clock won't start until after the Finals next year, taking us to 2028... so he'll be ready to lead us to glory in the 2030 World Cup! (Assuming he never gets or accepts an England senior call-up for some reason)

[EalingGreen]

Absolute mess of an article by Rowan in the Times today.

Worst thing about the piece was that there's a theme of question he kept putting to Kieran McKenna about him signing Irish players, the Irish players playing Gaelic football (Ogbene and O'Shea) and getting Irish qualified players to claim for us. McKenna shut it all down. Says he signed Szmodics because he was top scorer in the Championship. Says he has never spoken to O'Shea or Ogbene about Gaelic (a sport at which he excelled himself) and said he wouldn't be talking to Delap about his international allegiances.
I'd be pretty certain that 100% of KMcK's attention is focused on Ipswich Tn and nothing else, meaning such considerations as Rowan was pursuing are/were irrelevant.

Beyond that, insofar as he may be concerned about international recognition etc, there is no evidence either way that he is more (or less) interested in ROI than he is in NI.

[elatedscum]

Saw there's a lad Patrick Cushnan playing for FC Basel's u19s. A left back who is Irish (also with spanish citizenship). He's a 2007 kid, so he'd be an u18 this year. Played 29 games for their u17s last season - might have been someone we should have looked at for our u17 squad last year...

[Eirambler]

Yeah, think I read that any appearance in this Autumn's U21 qualifiers would tie him to England for three years, and he came on as a second-half sub against Northern Ireland. And if the rule is three years after his last U21 cap, I think it's safe to assume that the clock won't start until after the Finals next year, taking us to 2028... so he'll be ready to lead us to glory in the 2030 World Cup! (Assuming he never gets or accepts an England senior call-up for some reason)

I don't know where this thing about an under 21 cap tying someone for three years has come from in the last couple of months. I've seen it referenced by a few twitter pages and even one of two sites that border on journalism websites (e.g. balls.ie). But as far as I understand it it's complete nonsense. The three years thing only relates to competitive senior caps before a players 21st birthday, it's has nothing to do with under 21 caps.

The current official position on Delap is that, having taken a competitive under 21 cap for England after his 21st birthday, he's now ineligible for Ireland under FIFA rules, unless he held Irish citizenship before his first competitive English underage cap (at Under 17 or whatever). However, this position has been challenged by a couple of other players in similar situations and there have been CAS rulings to allow them to switch. So it is highly likely that Delap would be allowed to also if it was pushed. And there are now stories going around that FIFA are going to tweak the eligibility rules again because of the CAS rulings.

But anyway the three year thing is nonsense in terms of Delap - if you see any twitter page or website reference it just take it that they haven't a clue what they're on about. But I don't see Delap ever playing for us anyway, England will throw him a senior cap soon and that will be that.

[CraftyToePoke]

Yep, same lad:

"Francis Turley is a late withdrawal from Northern Ireland's UEFA U19 Championship squad .
The Belfast native has stayed with his club after being included in Brendan Rodgers first team squad for the Hoops pre-season trip to America. It marks an incredible few days for the teenager after he made a goal scoring debut for Celtic coming off the bench to score in their friendly win over Queen's Park last week.
Whilst NI U19 boss Gareth McAuley is disappointed to lose the services of the talented teen, he is delighted to see Turley get his opportunity to impress at club level. “It’s great for Fra to be part of the Celtic first team, however it’s disappointing for us as he was coming to the fore to be a key player for us," said McAuley.
"But it’s all about the development of the players and we wish Fra all the best, and we’ll see him further down the line.”
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-starlet-francis-turley-late-29543349

Hardly the most difficult of choices for the lad. :cool:

Not in either squad for you chaps, 21s or fully grown, but played underage for Celtic yesterday v Dortmund in the u19 UEFA league.

[Exgrad]

I see we are embarrasing ourselves again over a player who will never play for us:

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/13942089/john-oshea-liam-delap-republic-of-ireland/

[seanfhear]

I see we are embarrasing ourselves again over a player who will never play for us:

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/13942089/john-oshea-liam-delap-republic-of-ireland/
I don't think that Rory Delap ever got a fair crack of the whip when it came to playing for us ~ ~ Which might not be a big help in this either.

At this stage ~ There should be no chasing after players ~ ~ They either want to play for us or not ~ ~ Ok, no harm in saying the door is open, but I don't think there should be any chasing after players any more, because in can end up in a clown circus carry-on !

[elatedscum]

have there been many other father/son combos to play for Ireland as full internationals? Only ones I can think of are the Alan Kellys

[seanfhear]

Con Martin and Mick Martin ~ Father and Son.

[ForzaForth]

This article mentions eight father and son combinations to play for Ireland:-

The Boys in Green have been a family affair down through the years as Ireland sides kept it all relative – The Irish Sun | The Irish Sun (thesun.ie) (https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/5703115/ireland-family-relatives-international-team/)

[samhaydenjr]

I don't know where this thing about an under 21 cap tying someone for three years has come from in the last couple of months. I've seen it referenced by a few twitter pages and even one of two sites that border on journalism websites (e.g. balls.ie). But as far as I understand it it's complete nonsense. The three years thing only relates to competitive senior caps before a players 21st birthday, it's has nothing to do with under 21 caps.

The current official position on Delap is that, having taken a competitive under 21 cap for England after his 21st birthday, he's now ineligible for Ireland under FIFA rules, unless he held Irish citizenship before his first competitive English underage cap (at Under 17 or whatever). However, this position has been challenged by a couple of other players in similar situations and there have been CAS rulings to allow them to switch. So it is highly likely that Delap would be allowed to also if it was pushed. And there are now stories going around that FIFA are going to tweak the eligibility rules again because of the CAS rulings.

But anyway the three year thing is nonsense in terms of Delap - if you see any twitter page or website reference it just take it that they haven't a clue what they're on about. But I don't see Delap ever playing for us anyway, England will throw him a senior cap soon and that will be that.

Yeah, I saw it somewhere like that but after you said it I looked it up on the FIFA site and it's exactly as you say - the three-year rule is only for players who play up to three senior games, including competitive games, before turning 21. Searched today and found articles on three of those "border on journalism" sites you mentioned (brilliant description BTW) - extra.ie, balls.ie and sportsjoe.ie - all of them first said he closed the door by playing for England's U21s, then pivoted to mentioning a three-year cooling off period and referencing the "new rules" - two of them had links - one to the main FIFA page, and the other to a FIFA pdf about eligibility - neither link mentioned the possibility of switching after three years at all.


I see we are embarrasing ourselves again over a player who will never play for us:

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/13942089/john-oshea-liam-delap-republic-of-ireland/

Don't be so cynical - he will help England qualify for next summer's U21 Championships and will refuse to play in them on the off-chance that FIFA will change the rule as part of his cunning plan to string the FA along and then send them into the pits of depression when he lines out for us.

[Olé Olé]

Northern Ireland have called up Christy Pym

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arid-40246481.html

[Eirambler]

Best of luck to him, but he's awfully short for a keeper, which limits how high a level he can realistically ever play at.

[tetsujin1979]

Not in either squad for you chaps, 21s or fully grown, but played underage for Celtic yesterday v Dortmund in the u19 UEFA league.
Starting for Celtic against Sligo
Could mean something, could mean nothing
1844067806750601351

[CraftyToePoke]

Could mean something, could mean nothing

Could mean everything.
If its an English born kid & our set up, we know exactly what this means. Our northern brothers are now in the all too familiar to us situation of hoping he's good but not too good.
The Scott Hogan paradox I call it.

[liamoo11]

Could mean everything.
If its an English born kid & our set up, we know exactly what this means. Our northern brothers are now in the all too familiar to us situation of hoping he's good but not too good.
The Scott Hogan paradox I call it.

Hopefully he is coming on board

[Jolly Red Giant]

have there been many other father/son combos to play for Ireland as full internationals? Only ones I can think of are the Alan Kellys
Don Donovan + Terry Donovan
Jimmy Dunne + Tommy Dunne
Ronnie Whelan Sr + Ronnie Whelan

There are a couple of grandfather/grandson combos - as well as brothers - and uncle/nephew

[Olé Olé]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2024/oct/14/next-generation-2024-20-of-the-best-talents-at-premier-league-clubs

Four Irish qualified players in this but none born in the 26 counties of ROI. Jack Porter (England born, Irish father), Rory Finneran (English born, Irish paternal grandparent or grandparents?). There are also two in there that have played or do play for NI - Braiden Graham and George Feeney, the latter was in with Wales recently I believe.

[nigel-harps1954]

I would wager you'd have very little chance of getting Warren Feeney son in an Irish jersey.

[Olé Olé]

I would wager you'd have very little chance of getting Warren Feeney son in an Irish jersey.
As would I but maybe I was seeking to engage in a bit of reverse discrimination!

[Demesne Lad]

Don Donovan + Terry Donovan
Jimmy Dunne + Tommy Dunne
Ronnie Whelan Sr + Ronnie Whelan

There are a couple of grandfather/grandson combos - as well as brothers - and uncle/nephew

Con Martin + Mick Martin?

[Jolly Red Giant]

Con Martin + Mick Martin?
Yea - the Kellys and the Martins were mentioned on the previous page.

Jimmy Dunne, who played between 1923-1942, scored more than 30 goals for Sheff Utd in the top division in England each season between 1929-1933 - in 1930-31 he scored 41 league goals and a further 9 in other competitions. Jimmy's two sons, Jimmy and Tommy, later played for St Pats - Tommy also played for Shamrock Rovers, Sligo Rovers and Dundalk and won 3 Irish caps - Jimmy played for several clubs in England (including Peterborough and Leicester). Jimmy Dunne's nephew, also Tommy, played for Shamrock Rovers, Leicester and Exeter among others, and a second nephew, Christy Doyle played for Shelbourne and was capped once by Ireland (1959 v Czechoslovakia)

[EalingGreen]

I would wager you'd have very little chance of getting Warren Feeney son in an Irish jersey.Eh?

He's already got one!

https://www.irishfa.com/media/41485/george-feeney-ni-v-chelsea.png

Anyhow, it seems that he may* be ending his earlier flirtation with our Celtic cousins and turning back to the light. ;)


* - No guarantees, but fingers crossed. Either way, I can confidently predict that he will NOT be turning out for ROI ever.

[Eirambler]

Jack Fletcher, who is (potentially) Irish eligible though unlikely to ever play for us, is on the bench for Manchester United today against Brentford in the Premier League.

[tetsujin1979]

Is he a generation out? Has a twin brother at the United academy too

[Eirambler]

Granny from the last village in Ireland, Dooagh, apparently.

Dooagh has made a strong contribution to both American and Scottish football it seems:

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/soccer/1468015/twin-sons-of-football-legend-and-grandsons-of-achill-woman-sign-man-utd-contracts.html

[Olé Olé]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/darren-fletcher-lends-james-mcclean-support-as-robbie-brady-seals-deal/31411786.html

Fletcher himself said his mother is Irish.

[ColourfulPeanut]

You'd imagine we'd be a firm 3rd behind England and Scotland for either of the Fletcher boys.

[Eirambler]

Yes, it would take a fairly surprising turn of events for either to end up playing for Ireland.

[samhaydenjr]

Yes, it would take a fairly surprising turn of events for either to end up playing for Ireland.

Well I guess we could end up with a Michael/Will Keane situation, although I guess the pull of Scotland does reduce the chance of that

[Olé Olé]

Darren has been seen supporting Mayo in Croke Park before. Any interest they have had in Irish support is shrouded in disappointment.