Potentially eligible players thread

[paul_oshea]

Don't start Delores, you will have CD and SVD and Geysir saying he is ours to lose pulling out word for word how obfuscated his statements are and that he is is still with us and nothings changed till he actually comes out and declares for Engrrland. Nothing to see here, who's that pulling that rug.

I think Breen is right, maybe a tiny minority aren't aware, but having been involved with underage "irish" GAA teams over here kids know well before 16 who they want to play for. I am sure there are those floaters who are unsure anyway but they will always be "unsure" until the England door is fully closed.

Crowley and Grealish could be a our midfielders for the 2022 world cup.

[Charlie Darwin]

He declared for England years ago ya nut.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I'll give Crowley the benefit of the doubt that his loan spell at Barnsley going off the boil and his club career stagnating is just a coincidence.

[SkStu]

I'll give Crowley the benefit of the doubt that his loan spell at Barnsley going off the boil and his club career stagnating is just a coincidence.

Ah here - he's 18!! Stagnating!? Lol ;)

[Charlie Darwin]

Ah here - he's 18!! Stagnating!? Lol ;)
I agree with Stu, he's not stagnating. He's finished.

[CraftyToePoke]

Another busted flush, if I ever saw one.

[gastric]

So, in theory, Grealish reflects on his decision and decides it's a mistake.

1. Despite having completed the relevant paperwork, he has not played for England, can he still play for us?
2. In such a scenario would we welcome him back?

[Charlie Darwin]

geysir or DI could correct me, but by the letter of the law merely making the request, as he has, should tie him to England. Certainly as soon as he "consummates" the switch that would be that.

There are cases, such as Bobby Zamora, where the request appears to have been made but didn't bind the player. I'm not sure if that's just down to an oversight on FIFA's part or if the paperwork was never submitted, or if they only enforce it when a player is capped.

[DeLorean]

Was RedBench brought in to replace Crosby? In terms of causing bewilderment you're doing a fine job RedBench, but you need to work on your randomness and remain off topic always. Preferably your posts shouldn't be football related at all.

[paul_oshea]

BBC!!! BBC!! BBC!

Whats the story there anyway?

[DeLorean]

I also think we deserve an explanation. #BBC

[paul_oshea]

He declared for England years ago ya nut.

G'Man CD. There was talk on here that he was so astute he hoodwinked the English, and his real intention was to play for us but to keep doors open and better himself by staying with England for now. #HeIsStillOursToLose.

[Olé Olé]

Ah here - he's 18!! Stagnating!? Lol ;)

He's over alright. When you're about 5 foot 4 and you're getting bullied by 6 foot 4 centre halves in League One you know it's time to call it a day..

[Stuttgart88]

#HeIsStillOursToLose.Bear in mind that last summer O'Neill was firmly of the view Grealish would stick with us and was let down when he didn't join up, allegedly due to club pressure. Thinking he was still ours to lose (Geysir's phrase initially I think?) was a reasonable stance to take.

[DeLorean]

Nobody ruled out the possibility of 'losing' him anyway. Some just recognised their limitations as human beings (no physic powers), while others drew their own conclusion based on very little. It turned out that this conclusion was the right one, but there was always a 50/50 chance of that happening anyway. But let's not go there again.... :eek:

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

There is no point reading too much into Crowley meeting with O'Neill one way or other, but it's not out of the realms of possibility that he would keep that option open after a mediocre enough season in terms of development.

Fair enough he's only 18 but he turns 19 in August and when you look at the likes of Harry Kane and Dele Alli they are breaking into top 4 Premier League teams at 20. Crowley looks a fair way off doing that.

[DeLorean]

What is he at now? He's back at Arsenal yeah?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Just had a look at who wrote the article, the length of it and lack of any clarification and it all makes sense now. Pure and utter clickbait that you would expect from The Daily Mail.

How can anyone take this paragraph seriously?


While the starlet isn’t expected to challenge for a spot in Ireland's Euros squad, he could be drafted in next month for one of the pre-tournament friendlies against Holland and Belarus.

[Charlie Darwin]

Considering John Fallon had the inside line on everything that happened in the Grealish saga, I'd say he's probably getting that from Crowley's father. Whether it's based in reality or not...

[DannyInvincible]

geysir or DI could correct me, but by the letter of the law merely making the request, as he has, should tie him to England. Certainly as soon as he "consummates" the switch that would be that.

There are cases, such as Bobby Zamora, where the request appears to have been made but didn't bind the player. I'm not sure if that's just down to an oversight on FIFA's part or if the paperwork was never submitted, or if they only enforce it when a player is capped.

Whatever about the media reports, Bobby Zamora's "request", if even he made one, was never actually formally processed, according to Yann, who has access to FIFA's database. Yann felt it is probably the first competitive international appearance after a switch that ties a player to his new association and not the request to switch itself, although there was no evidence of any players having switched back and the letter of the law would appear to say otherwise. He was to seek confirmation of this from the head of the PSC when they were to meet and I had gotten back to him twice about this before, but unfortunately no update.

Here is what Yann said originally in relation to the database:


The database contains the name of the player and the association requesting the change of allegiance and the name of the association he represented so far. Then, the database contains the date where the change has been approved/denied by the FIFA Player’s Status Committee. Article 8.3 is clear – the player is no longer deemed eligible until he has been cleared by FIFA. If Zamora had requested a change, he would have appeared in the database at some point. The only exception being (in my opinion) – if he only had played in friendlies, which is not the case. I am not aware of the case of players who have been allowed to switch back.

And his thoughts on what effected a switch (my questions are in bold):


We had thought of Zamora as somewhat of a "test case" proving that a simple request alone was not enough to effect the switch, thinking he'd requested a switch but was allowed to play for England again on the basis of not having effected it, but you say this is not so. Why do you think that playing in a competitive game is what effects a change then, even though this wouldn't be in line with a literal reading of the regulation concerned? Are you of the opinion then that a player might be permitted to return if he's not represented his new association competitively after having already had his request formally approved? Can an association losing a player hold up or stall a switch by any means, refusing to comply or dragging their heels until threatened with penalty?

This issue refers to the election a sporting nationality. This is done solely by entering the field in a competitive match (article 5.2). In my opinion (and it is solely my opinion), one must distinguish the substantive conditions (art. 8.1(a) or 8.2) to change national affiliation from the formal process to do so (art. 8.3). Being allowed to change national affiliation only once is a substantive condition, ie the player must not have undergone another switch before, and not a formal one. Thus, a player can be deemed tied to his new association and the process to switch association complete only if he meet the stipulation of article 5.2.

The former association could refuse to deliver relevant documents but it has no power to veto the change in association. The process will take a little bit longer.

[DannyInvincible]

Rob Brennan (who writes for the Irish Post) interviewed Crowley (whose nephew present was wearing our away top) and reckons he'll declare: https://twitter.com/RobBrennan82/status/726084761672908800

[Closed Account]

Covering old ground but from this Fifa annex
http://resources.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/footballgovernance/01/70/80/04/faqchangeofassociation_neutral.pdf


ii. A recently issued statement dated and signed by the player in which heconfirms that he understands the impact of such a change and that he isaware that such a change, if granted, is of a definite nature and irreversible;

Not that it clears anything up. I think DI quoted someone before who said it takes 3-6 months for a change request to be processed, and we never found out why it would take so long. During that time of due process, could a player cancel a request?

[Closed Account]

There is no point reading too much into Crowley meeting with O'Neill one way or other, but it's not out of the realms of possibility that he would keep that option open after a mediocre enough season in terms of development.

Fair enough he's only 18 but he turns 19 in August and when you look at the likes of Harry Kane and Dele Alli they are breaking into top 4 Premier League teams at 20. Crowley looks a fair way off doing that.
In fairness Alli and Kane are exceptional examples. And even then Alli was still at MK Dons but about to sign for Spurs at Crowleys age and Harry Kane was on loan at Millwall. But comparing the progress of players is a waste of time. Give him time before you write him off, what have you got to lose?

[DannyInvincible]

Covering old ground but from this Fifa annex
http://resources.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/footballgovernance/01/70/80/04/faqchangeofassociation_neutral.pdf



Not that it clears anything up. I think DI quoted someone before who said it takes 3-6 months for a change request to be processed, and we never found out why it would take so long. During that time of due process, could a player cancel a request?

I'd gotten in touch with Yann about that and posted what he'd said here (http://foot.ie/threads/119079-Potentially-eligible-players-thread?p=1853654&viewfull=1#post1853654). I don't see why a player wouldn't be able to cancel it before everything is processed, but that's just a hunch and not based on any evidence of anything. It would seem ridiculous if a player had a sudden change of mind but FIFA decided to lump a load of unnecessary work upon themselves despite having knowledge of the change of mind just because they'd received an initial letter.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Update on the Crowley saga.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1691395.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2016_04_30

It'd be some laugh if the quotes from Martin O'Neill were taken from Autumn of last year.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2016/revealed-martin-oneill-to-hold-a-second-meeting-with-highlyrated-danny-crowley-34675148.html



Unlike Crowley, Grealish was not approached by O’Neill until he’d broken into the Aston Villa first-team and was established as the finest prospect in Ireland’s U-21 team. He would have gladly accepted a senior call-up to the senior fold for the trip to the United States that summer but the snub influenced him to park his international decision and eventual defection to the English FA.

Nonsense. You got played like a puppet.

[tetsujin1979]

At that point, he was bizarrely cut from their squad for the UEFA elite qualifiers, hastening his switch to the England for their UEFA U-19 campaign last October.
that's not what happened.
He was in a squad for the U17s in February 2013 - http://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/u17-head-coach-tom-mohan-names-squad-to-face-croatia

Danny Crowley features in the squad also after pledging his allegiance to Ireland ahead of England. Danny has played for Ireland at U-16 level, while representing England at U-16 and U-17 level also.
A month later he was in the England U17s squad, as was reported by the Independent: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/aston-villa-star-crowley-opts-to-play-for-england-29129461.html

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Petition to stop him from writing articles about Grealish & Crowley?

[tetsujin1979]

It would be one thing if the original article was lost in the archives, but I just realised that it was also written by Fallon, so he's basically contradicting himself with these two statements

At that point, he was bizarrely cut from their squad for the UEFA elite qualifiers, hastening his switch to the England for their UEFA U-19 campaign last October.

Ireland U-17 manager Tom Mohan said he respected the decision and did not consider Crowley for inclusion in his squad for their forthcoming European Championship qualifiers.

<EDIT>

Did some research on all this, and wrote it up here: http://irish-abroad.appspot.com/Blog?id=7680364591011353182

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.the42.ie/vardy-irish-heritage-2749714-May2016/

Well his surname ends with the letter Y like Kelly & Murphy - so why not.

[Wangball]

If they'd never checked and it turned out that he had an Irish connection the FAI would've been battered. They can't win when it comes to this stuff.

[Olé Olé]

Two more goals today for Scott Hogan. Can we put this into context? His career has primarily been at non-league sides having been released by Rochdale at 18. He makes it back to Rochdale 3 years later for 2013/14 and bangs in 17 goals to earn a jump up two divisions. He had two bad knee injuries almost immediately so has missed almost a season and a half. So, on the back of a career that has consisted of non-league and league two goals and brutal injuries the man has finished this season with 7 league goals in 5 starts (2 substitute appearances) in the Championship with Brentford (mostly without their main playmaker).

This is quite a story and the next chapter might consist of an Ireland jersey. Not sure how the media here hasn't picked up on him yet.

EDIT: Interesting to note also that two of his non-league clubs were Halifax Town and Stocksbridge Park Steels. You'll never guess who played for them too..
Double EDIT: The media have spotted it too, as well as Keano?: http://www.balls.ie/football/roy-keane-scott-hogan/332680

[Olé Olé]

This article is quoted in that Balls.ie article: http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/brentford-star-ignoring-talk-over-11290878

Seems 3 of his 4 grandparents are Irish so he definitely qualifies. Understandably, has ignored all international talk because I'm sure he's been focusing on getting himself established at club level after a torrid time with injuries. I bet we'll see him in the next qualifying campaign.

[SkStu]

He's currently been talked about on a few threads. Mods should pull those posts into one for him.

[Olé Olé]

He's currently been talked about on a few threads. Mods should pull those posts into one for him.

Agreed.

[CraftyToePoke]

Agreed too.
It's on YBIG that RK watched him for Brentford today.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

https://twitter.com/RobBrennan82/status/728929330185801728

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

re: the following: "the last thing I’m thinking of is who I’m going to represent internationally. It’s getting ahead of myself.”

Rob Brennan


Scott Hogan scores again for Brentford. Shame he sounds about as committed to playing for Ireland as Stephen Ireland. #COYBIG (https://twitter.com/hashtag/COYBIG?src=hash)

Neil O'Riordan


I've heard the FAI aren't convinced he is committed by Keane going along to watch him suggests they'll give it a go again.

Neil O'Riordan


I get that he probably didn't want to get ahead of himself but quotes other day + pulling out of u21s aren't very encouraging

(https://twitter.com/hashtag/COYBIG?src=hash)

Neil O'Riordan


yeah he's definitely worth another try but he's a 24-year-old who has played 8 Championship games. Should be jumping at it.

[Charlie Darwin]

It's hard to know with a player who doesn't have much history with national teams, but it's plausible he is just focused on getting a few club games together and having a good pre-season. Little rumours like the FAI aren't convinced he's committed do tend to be true when journalists are saying them though.

[SkStu]

In fairness though TOWK...the lad has spent the last 18 months of his young career absent due to injury. We don't know what is or isn't going on in his head and it may have absolutely nothing to do with a lack of commitment to playing for Ireland. He probably wants to focus on establishing his career at a decent level, keep free from injury for a bit and not add anything that might, in his mind, jeopardise that. I wouldn't necessarily say he is not keen on playing for Ireland per se, more so that he is just not sure whether that is the best thing for him right now.

[samhaydenjr]

In fairness though...the lad has spent the last 18 months of his young career absent due to injury. We don't know what is or isn't going on in his head and it may have absolutely nothing to do with a lack of commitment to playing for Ireland. He probably wants to focus on establishing his career at a decent level, keep free from injury for a bit and not add anything that might, in his mind, jeapordise that. I wouldn't necessarily say he is not keen on playing for Ireland per se, more so that he is just not sure whether that is the best thing for him right now.

Agree totally

[SkStu]

His goals with Rochdale: https://youtu.be/6uFOCytCJK4

Brace against Fulham: https://youtu.be/zNMdpcAFkrw

Have to say he looks good. Quick, some really good finishes and surprisingly good with his head. Kind of reminds me a bit of Aldridge.

[Olé Olé]

His quotes are slightly ambiguous, I think and it was his manager that pulled him from the under 21's. As I've stated, prior to this run of games his career has consisted of career-threatening injury, League Two and non-league. International football hasn't come into his thinking. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

EDIT: His quotes are very ambiguous. Fair enough if O'Riordan has heard otherwise but I'm not sure how people can be so bothered to read negatively into "the last thing I’m thinking of is who I’m going to represent internationally. It’s getting ahead of myself.” It is getting ahead of himself. The man had a relapse on his knee injury once. He's probably fearful of another. Not whether Roy Keane likes him.

[Olé Olé]

On the fact that Roy Keane went to watch him, I hope he spoke to him at some point: https://twitter.com/ScottHogan92/status/438432236745285632

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

*Tweet was two years old.

He hasn't commented on Keane watching him.

Just saying.. I thought it was a recent tweet until I seen the timestamp.

[CraftyToePoke]

Jaysus, that reads like RMK was whispering sweet dirty nothings in young Hogans ear while they were 'dancing'.

Anyway, do ye remember Paul Green saying once when asked about his playing for Ireland and why he didn't declare earlier etc, that as a lower league player it just never entered his head, that his focus was on getting established, becoming a pro player, getting contracts, and International ball was daydreaming territory - (or words to that effect) - now might Scott Hogan not be of a similar mindset presently ? He is far from established, and an injury recurrence from the scrapheap, contract wise.

[Closed Account]

*Tweet was two years old.So just as relevant as you referencing his nan, glad we cleared that up.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I considered that, but then he didn't say "I'm not thinking of International football at the moment", he said "I'm not thinking of who I'm going to represent Internationally at the moment".

He may also not want to make a decision on his Intl future because of his recent injury problems, but he also said he wishes the season wasn't ending so he could continue playing.

Then there is ominous quotes from Neil O'Riordan on Twitter, and I imagine he has a greater idea of what the situation is than I or anyone here.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

So just as relevant as you referencing his nan, glad we cleared that up.

And as relevant as what Intl jersey his nephew wears.

[Olé Olé]

*Tweet was two years old.

He hasn't commented on Keane watching him.

Just saying.. I thought it was a recent tweet until I seen the timestamp.

Okay. Thanks.

I didn't say it was recent but when someone refers to someone as being one of their 'all time heroes' I think that status does tend to last the test of time.

Obviously, it's your prerogative to construe tweets, the player's comments and comments of journalists whatever way suits you but I have no interest in posting something I think is measured or light-hearted to see you footnoting my posts with an asterisk. I can footnote my own posts.