Potentially eligible players thread

[rebelmusic]

Can't ye take this to the eligibility thread? This used to be a very interesting thread....

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Why do these guys even have a thread? Nolan isn't eligible. O'Hara doesn't want to play for Ireland for similar reasons to Curtis Davies. Noble hasn't once talked about playing for Ireland.

[Charlie Darwin]

Check out the date the thread was started.

[SkStu]

It was started in 2009 when these players were being chased. It has now morphed into general chit-chat about potential players.

Agree with rebelmusic that talk about the mechanics of eligibility be kept to its own thread. It makes my brain hurt. We get nordie players cos it's written into the Good Friday Agreement. S'all you need to know.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think it'd be better if the Eligibility Rules thread be kept for discussing the rules as they are, rather than people saying "I think it should be parentage only blah blah blah"

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I think it'd be better if the Eligibility Rules thread be kept for discussing the rules as they are, rather than people saying "I think it should be parentage only blah blah blah"

I don't remember saying blah blah blah at any point so I'm not sure why that's in quotation marks.

[Charlie Darwin]

I wasn't really quoting anybody, it was just a general thing.

[DannyInvincible]

Not being myopic and looking at it from a Scottish perspective, I can fully understand their frustrations about McCarthy and McGeady playing for Ireland. Conor Clifford is of Scottish descent. If he declared for Scotland whilst at Chelsea, Irish fans would be going apes***.

If fans don't like it, that's tough. It's the player's prerogative. Anyhow, we've also lost players as a result of the rule allowing players to switch association once, but I don't recall there being any widespread outrage directed towards them or the benefitting associations. Most of us are mature enough to acknowledge the decision rests with the player and can wish him the best in his choice.


We get nordie players cos it's written into the Good Friday Agreement. S'all you need to know.

I won't bite. :)

[CraftyToePoke]

Kevin Kilbane is one of the exceptions and of course he had Irish parentage - which I believe is the line at where eligibility should end. You mention Paul Green. The lad didn't even know he was eligible until his Grandfather told him. It's just a bit strange to me. He doesn't know/Grandad doesn't know he's Irish?? Anyways, eligibility isn't up to me and as you say, ultimately, if they play for the shirt, that's all that matters.

I hadn't realised or ever heard this was the case with Green. I did hear him say he was aware of his eligibility but as he was a lower league player when breaking through he didn't give any thought to international football of any kind. Where did he say he never knew he was eligible ?

[DannyInvincible]

I note Will Keane also joined Kevin Doyle on loan at QPR. He's the brother that is definitely still eligible to play for us.

I'm not sure if Michael is still eligible, however, as he lined out for our under-17s before playing competitively for England at under-age level. If those under-17 games for us were competitive fixtures, he'll already have used up his option to switch association once. Can anyone clarify whether or not they were competitive?

[SkStu]

It would appear so from this http://www.alltimesoccer.com/alltime/ireland_rep_u17_vs_austria_u17

[tetsujin1979]

I note Will Keane also joined Kevin Doyle on loan at QPR. He's the brother that is definitely still eligible to play for us.

I'm not sure if Michael is still eligible, however, as he lined out for our under-17s before playing competitively for England at under-age level. If those under-17 games for us were competitive fixtures, he'll already have used up his option to switch association once. Can anyone clarify whether or not they were competitive?
only a few pages back Danny: http://foot.ie/threads/119079-Kevin-Nolan-Jamie-O-Hara-and-Mark-Noble?p=1721886&viewfull=1#post1721886

[DannyInvincible]

Hehe, had a feeling it might have been confirmed already but couldn't quite put my finger on it.

[peadar1987]

The majority of players that declare for Ireland are doing so out of financial reasons and sporting reasons not sentimental reasons. Diego Costa declaring for Spain and Eduardo declaring for Croatia is also disgraceful for different reasons but at least these countries are getting world class players.

You can't possibly know that though. And what's the solution anyway? Ban the Kilbanes, McCarthys and McGeadys, just in case the Lawrences don't see themselves as fully Irish? That's unworkable, and a bit daft.

[Stuttgart88]

I think the rules are fine. At the margins they are abused, like any rule. Any thought of denying 2G Irish the opportunity to play for us smacks of some De Valera like idealised notion of Irishness.

[Gather round]

I think the rules are fine. At the margins they are abused, like any rule. Any thought of denying 2G Irish the opportunity to play for us smacks of some De Valera like idealised notion of Irishness

I thought it was his notion of Spanishness that was idealised (ie imaginary)?

[gastric]

This article would seem to indicate that Flanagan is not eligible for us which was what was mentioned earlier in the thread.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2550226/Liverpools-boy-door-Jon-Flanagan-following-footsteps-Steven-Gerrard-Jamie-Carragher-Anfield-hero.html

[DannyInvincible]

I was looking through the Emerald Exiles site (http://theemeraldexiles.com/) that TOWK posted in the Selçuk Tidim thread and came across Salford-born Sean Tse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Tse), formerly of Manchester City, who was called up to our under-17s for two friendly fixtures in 2009. He qualifies for us by virtue of his maternal grandparentage. I don't think he ever played for us, however, whilst his Wikipedia article states that "he absented these two matches", whatever that means exactly... Did he pull out through injury or did he simply reject the invitation? Who knows?

I'm pretty sure I'd come across his curiously bicultural name before somewhere (possibly in Football Manager), but don't think I'd known of his eligibility. He's now 20 and playing for South China in the Hong Kong First Division League. Admittedly, that's well below the standard at which we'd be hoping for our international representatives to be playing, whilst it also seems the Hong Kong international side are keen to make him part of their plans, but just thought him an interesting one of "ours abroad" that I've not really seen mentioned on here nonetheless.


Tse is eligible for Republic of Ireland through his maternal grand-parentage. Tse was called for Republic of Ireland national under-17 football team in April 2009 to two under-17 friendlies against Poland national under-17 football team but he absented these two matches.[8] (http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4202&catid=80:archive&Itemid=355)[9] (http://www.fai.ie/international/youth-teams/under-17/4213-poland-beat-ireland-under-17s-in-friendly-at-united-park.html)

He has also shown interest in joining the Hong Kong national football team and was listed on the training squad roster for the 2013 EAFF East Asian Cup in 2012.[10] (http://www.hkfa.com/news_details/9749/) He was then called up by Kim Pan-Gon, the head coach of Hong Kong national football team, for the 2013 Guangdong–Hong Kong Cup.

[tetsujin1979]

This is the squad he was called into: http://www.fai.ie/international/youth-teams/under-17/4225-mccaffrey-wants-under-17s-to-make-an-impact-against-poland-at-tallaght-stadium.html
He's been mentioned a few times on the forum, but nothing in years: https://www.google.com/search?q=sean+tse+site%3Afoot.ie

[tetsujin1979]

Might have to rename the thread: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/noble-wants-england-chance-30037286.html

[Stuttgart88]

And there's talk of Nolan getting an England call up too.

In fairness, Allardyce seems to be on a roll having appeared utterly discredited a few months ago.

[BonnieShels]

Might have to rename the thread: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/noble-wants-england-chance-30037286.html

We WILL have to rename the thread.


To be picked for my country is my ultimate goal, as it should be with any English player.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

It's not like Nolan, Noble and O'Hara are the exception with that school of thought. I appreciate their honesty, and the graft that has them within arms length of a call-up for England is to be admired.

[gastric]

We WILL have to rename the thread.

In keeping with the old title, how about 'Bamford, Redmond and McLaughlin'?

[Yard of Pace]

Was Joel Campbell ever eligible in the end or was that story about the Irish missionary impregnating his mother just lies (and fodder for a derogatory terrace chant)?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Was Joel Campbell ever eligible in the end or was that story about the Irish missionary impregnating his mother just lies (and fodder for a derogatory terrace chant)?

That was debunked.

[IsMiseSean]

We WILL have to rename the thread.

I'm still holding out for Jamie...

[SkStu]

Watching the Everton v West Ham game here this morning. Nolan is some moany c*nt.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/england-call-irish-target-for-u21-duty-30050554.html

Rochdale's Scott Hogan has emerged as a possible recruit for us. He is 22 years old in April. He has 19 goals in 36 games so far this season, including a hat-trick this weekend.

[gastric]

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/england-call-irish-target-for-u21-duty-30050554.html

Rochdale's Scott Hogan has emerged as a possible recruit for us. He is 22 years old in April. He has 19 goals in 36 games so far this season, including a hat-trick this weekend.

Possibly one for the future, and with McGoldrick, it gives some new options which is always pleasing.


http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26119110

[DannyInvincible]

Liam George on Curtis Davies and "granny-rulers": http://balls.ie/football/fai-wasting-time-chasing-player/


Curtis Davies is extremely torn about Martin O’Neill’s invitation to him to come and play for Ireland. That’s according to Liam George, one of the stars of Ireland’s U-20 European Championship win in 1998.

George currently works as a physio in Luton and is a friend of Davies from the time they were both on the books at Luton Town. He told Balls.ie today that the defender is at best wary about accepting the FAI’s request that he throw his lot in with Ireland.

The Hull defender has rather tenuous ancestral links to the country that are now looking for him to fill in at centre-half. He qualifies through his grandmother, who was born in Ireland thanks to her father’s role in the British army. The family moved back to England shortly after she was born.

"I spoke to Curtis earlier on today again, because there’s quite a lot of confusion (about his ancestral links). His great-grandfather was in the British military. His Gran was born in Ireland but obviously to English parents and shortly after that, they came back to England. The birth certificate (of his grandmother) is Irish, so he believes he does qualify."

According to George, Davies’ misgivings are straightforward. As far as he’s concerned, he’s English. And he’s having some difficulty processing the idea that he could really play for Ireland.

"The problem he has is he’s got no Irish influence, because they (his great-grandparents and grandmother) were English, and they came back to England shortly after that. So although there’s a link, he says it’s difficult for him because he’s very much a ‘wear his heart on his sleeve’ type of guy and he doesn’t want to take up a place that someone who’s potentially a very proud Irish person wants to take."

At the same time, George insists that Davies “doesn’t not want to play for Ireland” and if he did come over he would “obviously give it his all.” However, George points out that Davies was quite open about his disappointment at not getting in England squad for a couple of friendlies earlier this year. And he still harbours strong ambitions of breaking into the England side.

George verified the reports that the FAI have launched a “charm offensive” to bring the centre-half on board.

"He played under Martin at Villa and he’s said that a few of Martin’s people have sounded him out and asked him would he play for Ireland and he’s kind of just stuttered a bit and said he doesn’t want to say no but, at the same time, he’s wondering would it be fair to say yes? Basically, he doesn’t want to go across and then all of a sudden people are saying ‘You’re not really Irish’ and ‘you’re not one of us’."

George is best remembered by Irish supporters for slotting the final penalty in shoot-out against Germany in ’98. He himself qualified to play for Ireland through his Irish mother and grew up in an intensely Irish household in Luton. There was never any doubt that he would pick Ireland ahead of England, had both come requesting his services.

"I never got a full international cap but I can honestly say that I’d only ever played for Ireland. A lot of people look at me and say ‘well you’re as English as they come,’ and I say ‘No, I’ve never felt English.’ I was brought up in an Irish household, I went to a Catholic school. Everything about me feels Irish, I have no English influences whatsoever, so if I couldn’t play for my country, I’m not thinking about anywhere else."

In the past half-century, numerous English born players have lined out for Ireland. Many of these players would have felt a strong cultural identification with Ireland and grown up in households drenched in Irish culture. George reckons that assessing the relative degree of ‘Irishness’ of a player is a subtle and tricky business. Each case should be looked at differently, and it very much comes down to each person’s feelings and background.

"They compare me and Gary Doherty a lot because we went to the same school, both his parents were Irish, he was born in Donegal. But yet, he hasn’t got a clue about Ireland. It’s not that he couldn’t care less, its just he’s not very culturally aware. Whereas me, I was in Ireland every six weeks on my summer holidays. I were forced to go over there. I was in Ballymun, I was in Fairview. I was a kind of bona fide Dublin boy, all my cousins played for St. Vincents, so I was brought up in that environment. I was always very aware of being Irish."

George instances Stephen Reid as another who actively sought out the FAI to alert them of his Irish links, rather than wait for the FAI to sift through his ancestral history. Reid got in touch with the FAI through Richie Sadlier when they both were at Milwall.

The thing that annoys George the most is that the idea that the FAI are spending their time chasing down players who patently have little interest in walking out on the Lansdowne Road pitch, unless of course England are in town.

"The biggest problem I’ve got with it is that if somebody’s Irish, they’ll find a way of letting the FAI know they’e Irish, rather than the FAI having to investigate. And I think that’s the biggest bugbear that I have with it. If there’s a player in the top league that’s Irish, and he wants to play for Ireland, then we should know about it. But if you’re trying to chase back lineage and the player doesn’t know they’re Irish, then I think that says quite a lot. It says they’re not really interested anyway."

The term ‘mercenary’ was tossed around liberally in the English media (and by certain rival international managers. Billy Bingham please stand up) in the late ’80s, when the FAI’s policy of recruiting English born players with remote ties to Ireland was at its most fevered.

Liam George certainly did not use the word mercenary, and was very keen not to label anybody who has played for Ireland in this fashion. However, he did express concern at the idea that many English-born players would seek to play for Ireland just for the sake of participating in a major tournament, rather than out of a genuine desire to represent Ireland.

"I’d hate players to be playing for Ireland just to get in big tournaments, rather than wanting to play for Ireland. The reason we won that tournament (in ’98) was because the pride of being Irish was so strong and that’s what got us there. I think if you let people in because they’re grandparent’s grandparents were Irish, I think you’re opening a horrible can of worms and people aren’t going to want to play for the badge and the tricolour and I think it’s not good for Irish football."

[ArdeeBhoy]

Met Liam George a few months back, he's the real deal. And actually respect too, to Curtis Davies for his thoughts and candour on the matter.

[Yard of Pace]

"The biggest problem I’ve got with it is that if somebody’s Irish, they’ll find a way of letting the FAI know they’e Irish, rather than the FAI having to investigate. And I think that’s the biggest bugbear that I have with it. If there’s a player in the top league that’s Irish, and he wants to play for Ireland, then we should know about it. But if you’re trying to chase back lineage and the player doesn’t know they’re Irish, then I think that says quite a lot. It says they’re not really interested anyway."

Firstly, although I wanted Davies in, now I know how tenuous the link is I think we should leave it.

Secondly, the bit I quoted, I don't agree with Liam there. A couple of paragraphs previously he cites the example of Gary Doherty not being in any way culturally aware, and these days we're getting English/Scotch lads in at 15/16 and one can hardly expect them to have delved into their genealogy...so unfortunately I think it's necessary for the FAI to chase eligible players up rather than waiting for them to declare for us. Just think who we'd have lost out on over the years.

[Stuttgart88]

And assuming cultural awareness is a valid criterion (it ain't) how should we define culturally aware? I grew up in Rathfarnham but have only ever been to a Ceilidh by coercion, never went to the Gaeltacht, never played any form of GAA, used to cringe at prime time TV commercials for mastitis treatments for cattle, was utterly crap at Irish, only played Garrison games, hated Mass, hated Fianna Fáil and so on. I'd fail almost all objective cultural criteria!

[geysir]

And to top it all, you're a brit :)

I think our Cyprus hero was more explaining that 2 kids growing up in what appears to be very similar circumstances in England, can have contrasting awareness of their Irish ethnicity. Maybe he was blowing his own trumpet a bit at the same time.
What he isn't interested in, what most everybody agrees with, is chasing after players who have no interest, and certainly not Davies who has probably the most tenuous link to Ireland of any eligible player in the history of eligibility.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

And to top it all, you're a brit :)

I think our Cyprus hero was more explaining that 2 kids growing up in what appears to be very similar circumstances in England, can have contrasting awareness of their Irish ethnicity. Maybe he was blowing his own trumpet a bit at the same time.
What he isn't interested in, what most everybody agrees with, is chasing after players who have no interest, and certainly not Davies who has probably the most tenuous link to Ireland of any eligible player in the history of eligibility.

Terry Mancini and Tony Cascarino say hello.

[Stuttgart88]

Why Cascarino?

[DeLorean]

http://balls.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/nolanbardsley.gif

[geysir]

Terry Mancini and Tony Cascarino say hello.
Terry Mancini had an Irish father
Cas had an Irish mother, doesn't matter that she was adopted by Cas' grandfather.
Davies has Irish born grandparents who just happened to be born in Ireland while the great grandparents were on a tour of duty or something, his grandparents have no recollection of Ireland.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Terry Mancini had an Irish father
Cas had an Irish mother, doesn't matter that she was adopted by Cas' grandfather.
Davies has Irish born grandparents who just happened to be born in Ireland while the great grandparents were on a tour of duty or something, his grandparents have no recollection of Ireland.

My bad. Somehow I got it into my head that neither Mancini or Cascarino had a blood link.

[DannyInvincible]

Terry Mancini had an Irish father

Mancini's birth surname was Sealy. Sealy was the surname of his Dublin father, who died when Terry was aged seven. His mother re-married and her son consequently became a Mancini in name along with her.


Cas had an Irish mother, doesn't matter that she was adopted by Cas' grandfather.

A few years ago, the Sunday Independent reported that Cascarino's mother was granted Irish citizenship unbeknownst to her and without her consent: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-new-twist-in-cascarino-row-26257148.html


The Sunday Independent has learned that in 1985, Theresa O'Malley's name was entered in the Foreign Births Register in the Department of Foreign Affairs, Dublin a short time a matter of weeks, if not days before that of her son Tony.

Mr Cascarino's name was also registered in 1985 in advance of the first of his record 88 caps for Ireland.

It is difficult to understand how Theresa Cascarino's name could have been entered in the Foreign Births Register without her prior consent or knowledge. However, yesterday, her son firmly indicated that this was actually the case.

He confessed to being "totally baffled" by the latest development. He said he had checked the situation with his mother and, he maintained, she was "equally baffled". He stressed that she had not initiated any moves to have her name included on the Foreign Births Register.

He said: "This is a very, very funny one. But to be honest with you I don't want to get involved in a tit-for-tat with the FAI. They say one thing, I say another in my book, and I stand by what I say in my book. I just hope the matter rests there."

Mr Cascarino has said that because of "family sensitivities" he is unable to disclose in full detail why he believes he was ineligible to play for Ireland. However, the Sunday Independent understands that the FAI and the Department of Foreign Affairs are aware of those sensitive family details.

Being so aware, the FAI was satisfied to issue a statement last week declaring Mr Cascarino was always eligible to play for Ireland.

However, irrespective of whether Mr Cascarino was indeed eligible, more potentially disturbing questions arise in relation to how his mother's name was included in the Foreign Births Register.

I don't see why, as this (http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-66622140.html) article makes out, the name of Theresa O'Malley/Cascarino would have required adding to the Foreign Births Register in order to validate her son's Irish citizenship and eligibility as, although born in England to non-Irish parents, she would surely have become an automatic Irish citizen by virtue of her adoption by a Mayo father. I'm open to correction on that and haven't trawled through the legislation for once, but I'm pretty sure she would have automatically acquired Irish citizenship by virtue of the adoption and that her citizenship would have been formally considered effective from the date of adoption at the latest. As a result, I believe Tony would have been entitled to be included on the Foreign Births Register without his mother's name also requiring addition. She was already an Irish citizen anyway.


Davies has Irish born grandparents who just happened to be born in Ireland while the great grandparents were on a tour of duty or something, his grandparents have no recollection of Ireland.

Whilst original reports suggested Davies had two Irish grandparents, I have a feeling it was just a grandmother of Davies' who happened to be born in Ireland whilst her father was on military duty with the British army. Isn't that what Liam George claimed the other day?


My bad. Somehow I got it into my head that neither Mancini or Cascarino had a blood link.

An admission of fallibility? You've gone soft, TOWK!

[Dunners]

Of course you did TOWK

[geysir]

Whilst original reports suggested Davies had two Irish grandparents, I have a feeling it was just a grandmother of Davies' who happened to be born in Ireland whilst her father was on military duty with the British army.
What kind of weight can we put on a mere feeling, Danny?
It's not even a gut feeling!

[DannyInvincible]

What kind of weight can we put on a mere feeling, Danny?
It's not even a gut feeling!

Ha, you may have missed it up-thread, but I should have added that Liam George explained Davies' eligibility the other day: http://balls.ie/football/fai-wasting-time-chasing-player/


I spoke to Curtis earlier on today again, because there’s quite a lot of confusion (about his ancestral links). His great-grandfather was in the British military. His Gran was born in Ireland but obviously to English parents and shortly after that, they came back to England. The birth certificate (of his grandmother) is Irish, so he believes he does qualify.

My primary focus happened to be on the United-Bayern game at the time of posting; clicking back/searching for quotes and links to double-check and confirm my mere feeling could wait. :)

[Stuttgart88]

Curtis Davies in come and get me plea to MON

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/hull-city/10761247/Hull-City-v-Sheffield-United-Curtis-Davies-wants-to-play-for-England-after-being-hurt-by-Irish-problems.html

Or maybe I misunderstood.

[TrapAPony]

Curtis Davies in come and get me plea to MON

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/hull-city/10761247/Hull-City-v-Sheffield-United-Curtis-Davies-wants-to-play-for-England-after-being-hurt-by-Irish-problems.html

Or maybe I misunderstood.

Seems that he wants a chat with O'Neill & Keane

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Who in their right mind would want this lad playing for Ireland after some of these comments...

[DannyInvincible]

Who in their right mind would want this lad playing for Ireland after some of these comments...

Well, crucially, "this lad" (Do I sense disdain in that for some reason, as if he's guilty of courting the attention of Irish fans and media?) has never expressed an interest in representing us. He has repeatedly informed the curious media that he doesn't feel Irish, nor did his Ireland-born granny even identify as Irish. He has been completely honest about his intentions and has not disrespected us in any way. He is certainly not to blame for the continual raising of the matter of his eligibility in the media.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Well, crucially, "this lad" (Do I sense disdain in that for some reason, as if he's guilty of courting the attention of Irish fans and media?) has never expressed an interest in representing us. He has repeatedly informed the curious media that he doesn't feel Irish, nor did his Ireland-born granny even identify as Irish. He has been completely honest about his intentions and has not disrespected us in any way. He is certainly not to blame for the continual raising of the matter of his eligibility in the media.

I'm not having a go at Curtis. It's just bemusement as to why anyone would want the likes of Davies, Noble or O'Hara to play for Ireland when their heart isn't in it. It's about time O'Neill drew a line under this and showed confidence in the defenders we already have. We have enough grey clouds forming over this Qualifying campaign. We don't need another one over this lad.

[tetsujin1979]

O'Neill and Keane have barely mentioned Davies do far in their reign, but he's constantly being asked about it by the press. He's maintained his stance from the very beginning - while he does qualify, it's a tenuous link(at best), he feels no connection to Ireland, and his dream is to play for England.
There is no story here whatsoever