Potentially eligible players thread

[dr_peepee]

I always got the feeling he was a little bitter about not being picked by Scotland. More than most to be honest.


Agree with your general point though. No problem with the Kilbanes, Carsleys, Kellys of this world, I simply can't identify with the Townsends, Aldridges and Morrisons of this world.

I dunno.. I've heard Townsend pull people up over his Irishness on UTV

[Dodge]

I dunno.. I've heard Townsend pull people up over his Irishness on UTV

The Irishness that he discovered in his mid 20s? Or the Irishness that requested the team wear black armbands for Princess Di?

[Den Perry]

:rolleyes:

Noble has done nothing at all to irk me! In fact, I can safely say that I hold no strong feelings towards Mark Noble, be they positive or negative. Why would I, ffs?

As for the rest of your post...

You have well and truly missed my point...read all my posts on this issue and then maybe come back to me.

And I love Ray Houghton...and he wanted to play for us! Always read his interviews with great interest.

You are wrong about Houghton, his first love was always Scotland. remember reading it in Shoot all those years ago!! lol

[OwlsFan]

The Irishness that he discovered in his mid 20s? Or the Irishness that requested the team wear black armbands for Princess Di?

All the team I believe were making their living in England at the time. I can understand but don't necessarily agree with the gesture.

[irishfan86]

The Irishness that he discovered in his mid 20s? Or the Irishness that requested the team wear black armbands for Princess Di?

If you think that's bad, I was in school at the time of her death. The dance teacher had this obsession with Princess Di, and every year on the anniversary of her death she would send out her dance class to do a performance to Elton John's rendition of "Candle in the Wind."

Three ****ing years later and I'm thinking, get over it woman!

[tetsujin1979]

In addition, I've heard of him attending 'B' and underage internationals to support his potential international teammates while he was involved with the senior side, which I thought was really cool, and after that I knew I'd never doubt his commitment.
This is true. I was at the B game VS Scotland in Dalymount a few years ago, and Clinton was there. McGeady and Duff came along as well.

[ofjames]

i remember reading somewhere as well that clinton married an irish girl and has a son who he called cian. genuine paddy now... he tried very hard in the green as well

we've had these type of players throughout the last quarter century, particularly during our most successful period under jack.

if we get a few extra quality players in using this rule and it helps take us to a higher level then i think we'll all be happy regardless of whether they are first, second or third generation Irish.

reality is that players like kilbane are the rarity among the foreign born contingent. most would have rather played for the country of their birth if they had thought they would get the opportunity. I would include aldridge, sheedy, houghton, morrison, mcateer, babb, townsend, lawrenson etc.. in this bracket. nobody questioned their credentials when they brought us to 3 major tournaments in 6 years? if we are going to be that parochial about things why dont we ship out trap and only give the managers job to a 'proper paddy' too.

doesnt bother me at all. furthermore, if a few foreign-born players can come in and help us to be successful at a world cup or euros then it will encourage more youngsters in Ireland to take up the sport and hopefully help develop the type of quality players domestically that we need to compete at international level in the longrun

[Den Perry]

:rolleyes::rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

Noble has done nothing at all to irk me! In fact, I can safely say that I hold no strong feelings towards Mark Noble, be they positive or negative. Why would I, ffs?

As for the rest of your post...

You have well and truly missed my point...read all my posts on this issue and then maybe come back to me.

And I love Ray Houghton...and he wanted to play for us! Always read his interviews with great interest.

You stated that you would not be happy with Nolan, Noble or O'Hara playing for Ireland. While I understand that Nolan sat on the fence and O'Hara gave negative vibes, I merely asked what had Noble done or said that made you feel this way

And for the rest of my post? FFS I replied to your one single post. Lads, I think we have to read all Joema's posts before we are entitled to reply

[geysir]

You are wrong about Houghton, his first love was always Scotland. remember reading it in Shoot all those years ago!! lol
Shock, he loved the country into which he was born.
And now he has 2 loves and all the better for it.
A second national identity can also be built upon or even acquired.

What one person regards as Irish or being Irish, is their subjective opinion.
Nationality rules and regulations are without prejudice towards subjective opinion or sentiment.
A dual national is one before the age of 21 just he as he is the same after 21.
No one is forcing a federation to chose an older player who has not been a part of the set up from an early age.
The question is, will this be abused to the detriment of the game?
In that case, FIFA can always add another regulation to tighten it up :)

[paul_oshea]

This is true. I was at the B game VS Scotland in Dalymount a few years ago, and Clinton was there. McGeady and Duff came along as well.

If you check the links on the other section, duff at the end of the bulgaria game, made a point and came over to this fella in a wheelchair near the irish section. He grabbed yer mans hand and shook it well not shook it but you know the way you clinch yer hadn with someone!!:D He then took off his jersey and kissed the badge i think and gave it to the lad win the wheelchair. Thought that was the nicest thing i have seen in a long time by an irish player, ill still remember him though checking in in bratislava behind me walking normal and then when he gets to the lounge and starts limping with all teh irish fans around ;D

[misterk]

I remember as a kid seeing Houghton on some kind of tribute show to someone or other on Kenny Live, and when asked about how he came to play for Ireland, replied, "well, it was always my dream to play for Scotland, but ......." and I forgot the rest after that as I lost all respect for the man. I can't understand how any Irish fan wouldn't be embarrassed by that statement. Even the current soccer republic ad on tv says you just need an Irish greyhound or something along those lines to play for Ireland. If that's the reputation we have in this country, imagine what it's like outside.

A lot of people on here seem to want to support a successful team at all costs, not a representative team of this country. I can't relate to this at all. How would you feel if we just threw a load of money at some world class footballers to buy them a passport, like some Middle East countries have done with athletes?

[Deckydee]

A few links in todays press about it:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/opportunity-beckons-to-pledge-allegiance-1766303.html

http://www.examiner.ie/sport/cunninghams-warning-over-new-republic-recruits-93664.html

The one from the 'Indo' looks at players that could play

[EalingGreen]

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You stated that you would not be happy with Nolan, Noble or O'Hara playing for Ireland. While I understand that Nolan sat on the fence and O'Hara gave negative vibes, I merely asked what had Noble done or said that made you feel this way

According to Daniel McDonnell, in the Indo piece which DeckyDee quoted:

"[Noble is] Another grandparent link who holidayed here as a child but pretty much no hope of Noble being converted to the cause as Ireland have tried and failed before. The West Ham midfielder is preparing for the European U-21 Championship with England, and is tipped as a certainty to progress to senior international honours"

Coincidentally, Stuart Pearce picked Noble as his Captain in the England U-21 team which beat Azerbaijan U-21's 7-0 last night, in preparation for their trip to the Euro U-21 Finals.

Tbh, with Zola guiding him at WHU, Noble must be a decent bet for a senior England call-up in the next 2 or 3 years, as McDonnell says.

[EastTerracer]

I've backed up Morrison and I'll do it again. He always worked his socks off for us, and I remember in our away draw with France 0-0 during the Kerr era when he got injured, and looked absolutely heartbroken coming off the field.

In addition, I've heard of him attending 'B' and underage internationals to support his potential international teammates while he was involved with the senior side, which I thought was really cool, and after that I knew I'd never doubt his commitment.


Thanks Irishfan. As a kid, Clinton used to spend some of his summer holidays in Ireland (in Garristown, north county Dublin) and he's talked over the years about trying to play GAA with his cousins. He did take his time declaring finally for us but if you're a young kid with agents and managers putting pressure on you not everyone will have the strength of a Kilbane or a Breen to say no.

The Townsends and Aldridge's may have slightly more tenuous connections but as long as they play with commitment and passion (as they always did) then I have no problem with that as they have got Irish bloodlines. I have second cousins born in Birmingham, Wolverhampton and Newcastle and they have been brought up in England but always aware of their Irish background. How can people say they are any less Irish than someone born here just because their parents or grandparents moved away to get a job?

[as_i_say]

You look at almost any national side out there and you will see players like these involved.

England has Hargreaves, Italy has Camoranesi, Germany has a couple of Polish forwards, and half of the rest of the world have naturalized Brazilians in their squads.

It's one thing sticking to your principles, but in my view we must use FIFA eligibility rules to make our team the best it can be.

I'd rather a team with 9 out of the starting players "truly Irish" (by whatever bizarre definition you want to choose) play in a major tournament, than see an all "purebred" Irish side just miss out because of some twisted sense of morality.

We've already seen that- USA 94 squad.7 of the 22 Irish born. The point for me is that i dont want representing your country to be a p1sstake and us going after failed English rejects. Anton Ferdinand and Kevin Nolan to me is a complete joke-and I still think the same about the likes of Morrisson even if he played with heart-I'll always consider his addition to the Ireland set up as a disgrace.

[Den Perry]

The Irishness that he discovered in his mid 20s? Or the Irishness that requested the team wear black armbands for Princess Di?


What was that about requesting black armbands for princess Di?

[dr_peepee]

Nolans only 26 :eek:

Alway thought he was much older....

[Wolfie]

I remember as a kid seeing Houghton on some kind of tribute show to someone or other on Kenny Live, and when asked about how he came to play for Ireland, replied, "well, it was always my dream to play for Scotland, but ......." and I forgot the rest after that as I lost all respect for the man. I can't understand how any Irish fan wouldn't be embarrassed by that statement. Even the current soccer republic ad on tv says you just need an Irish greyhound or something along those lines to play for Ireland. If that's the reputation we have in this country, imagine what it's like outside.

A lot of people on here seem to want to support a successful team at all costs, not a representative team of this country. I can't relate to this at all. How would you feel if we just threw a load of money at some world class footballers to buy them a passport, like some Middle East countries have done with athletes?

Houghton was honest enough to state that playing for Scotland was his original goal. I wouldn't knock him for that - as it in no way detracts from the effort, commitment and contribution he made to Irish International Football.

There's the small matter of scoring 2 of the most important goals in Irish Footballing history for a start. He also weighed in with a play off goal as well. The goals he scored only scratch the surface of his playing contribution. He was a massively influential player throughout the Charlton era.

Only a few days after the Hillsborough disaster, a tragedy that traumatised so many, Houghton travelled to Dublin to play against Spain. He crossed the ball for the winner and had a goal chalked off for off side.

I'm proud to say that Ray Houghton represented this country at International Football.

[dr_peepee]

The Irishness that he discovered in his mid 20s? Or the Irishness that requested the team wear black armbands for Princess Di?

I bet when you found out were St Patrick came from you took it worse than when you found out about Santy!!!

[Den Perry]

Shock, he loved the country into which he was born.
And now he has 2 loves and all the better for it.
A second national identity can also be built upon or even acquired.

What one person regards as Irish or being Irish, is their subjective opinion.
Nationality rules and regulations are without prejudice towards subjective opinion or sentiment.
A dual national is one before the age of 21 just he as he is the same after 21.
No one is forcing a federation to chose an older player who has not been a part of the set up from an early age.
The question is, will this be abused to the detriment of the game?
In that case, FIFA can always add another regulation to tighten it up :)


You are missing my point. I welcome players born in other countries that play for us, and to tell you the truth once they play for Ireland, to me they are Irish. However, I'm discussing Houghton, as Joema gave the impression earlier that he would not welcome Noble, Nolan etc because apparentky thay had stated that England would be their first choice. I then put the example of Houghton to him. To happily accept Houghton and not Noble, for example, smacks of hypocrisy. It doesn't matter that he played brilliantly for us and scored important goals. The fact is he wanted to play for Scotland as his first choice - no differant from what Noble allegedly said re England

[Den Perry]

According to Daniel McDonnell, in the Indo piece which DeckyDee quoted:

"[Noble is] Another grandparent link who holidayed here as a child but pretty much no hope of Noble being converted to the cause as Ireland have tried and failed before. The West Ham midfielder is preparing for the European U-21 Championship with England, and is tipped as a certainty to progress to senior international honours"

Coincidentally, Stuart Pearce picked Noble as his Captain in the England U-21 team which beat Azerbaijan U-21's 7-0 last night, in preparation for their trip to the Euro U-21 Finals.

Tbh, with Zola guiding him at WHU, Noble must be a decent bet for a senior England call-up in the next 2 or 3 years, as McDonnell says.

Cheers

[Duggie]

If you check the links on the other section, duff at the end of the bulgaria game, made a point and came over to this fella in a wheelchair near the irish section. He grabbed yer mans hand and shook it well not shook it but you know the way you clinch yer hadn with someone!!:D He then took off his jersey and kissed the badge i think and gave it to the lad win the wheelchair. Thought that was the nicest thing i have seen in a long time by an irish player, ill still remember him though checking in in bratislava behind me walking normal and then when he gets to the lounge and starts limping with all teh irish fans around ;D

well done duffer

[joema]

"decides he wants to use his dubious connections (in previous cases such a connection has often been a dead grandparent that the player in question never even met) and throw his lot in with the Irish..."

Jamie McCarthy?

Nah, McCarthy clearly wants to play for us...and for the right reasons.

I was thinking more along the lines of Morrisson and Mickey Evans - still embarrassed he got a cap for us.

[joema]

I'm Irish and I'm really keen to play foor Ireland, for all the right reasons, unfortunately though I'm not good enough and I accept that there are better players as eligible for Ireland as I am who are going to be picked ahead of me.

Your argument is stupid, if these English born lads qualify for a passport than they have as much right to play as anyone born in Ireland...thats just a fact

You really take the biscuit - "your argument is stupid" :rolleyes:

You completely missed my point. Well done.

[joema]

You are wrong about Houghton, his first love was always Scotland. remember reading it in Shoot all those years ago!! lol

"lol"?? :rolleyes:

Bit pathetic tbh. I've heard and read him say otherwise..."lol":rolleyes:

[joema]

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You stated that you would not be happy with Nolan, Noble or O'Hara playing for Ireland. While I understand that Nolan sat on the fence and O'Hara gave negative vibes, I merely asked what had Noble done or said that made you feel this way

And for the rest of my post? FFS I replied to your one single post. Lads, I think we have to read all Joema's posts before we are entitled to reply

FFS is right....

Noble has done nothing to irk me, as I said...

He has played for the England 21s 19 times, therefore I don't think he should play for Ireland, simple as that.

[Duggie]

FFS is right....

Noble has done nothing to irk me, as I said...

He has played for the England 21s 19 times, therefore I don't think he should play for Ireland, simple as that.

no way would i want him anywhere near the squad. wouldnt care if he was another pele and maradonna roled into 1.

[youngirish]

I don't want any of them playing for us. Irish people should represent Ireland in international sports and Irish people only (you don't necessarily have to be born here to be Irish before the PC brigade get on my case). Ireland's team should not be simply used as a stepping stone on someone's career path irrespective of how much success it brings. It's not going to make much difference anyway. Of the players metioned only Noble may turn out to be noticeably better than what's available already and even then I'd rather have Garvan, McCarthy, Gibson and McCann in the team instead of him.

[Deckydee]

I don't want any of them playing for us. Irish people sould represent Ireland in international sports and Irish people only (you don't necessarily have to be born here to be Irish before the PC brigade get on my case). Ireland's team should not be simply used as a stepping stone on someone's career path irrespective of how much success it brings. It's not going to make much difference anyway. Of the players metioned only Noble may turn out to be noticeably better than what's available already and even then I'd rather have Garvan, McCarthy, Gisbon and McCann in the team instead of him.

Sorry 'Youngirish' cant agree with you there. :o

I made the point earlier about Andy Townsend, we see what he did for us. I guess you could say the same about Phil Babulous and Trigger

[NeilMcD]

Totally agree with youngirish on this one. None of them are even worth pursuing to be honest.

[Den Perry]

FFS is right....

Noble has done nothing to irk me, as I said...

He has played for the England 21s 19 times, therefore I don't think he should play for Ireland, simple as that.

You are not making sense - I replied FFS because you had a go at me for not reading later posts.So am I expected to read everything you post afterwards before I can reply to an earlier one? Cop on

In addition, why are you such a Houghton lover when he made it clear Scotland were the side he would rather have played for? your argument makes no sense

[Deckydee]

Totally agree with youngirish on this one. None of them are even worth pursuing to be honest.

Oh well, different strokes for different folks I guess :o

Lets see how it pans out

[Den Perry]

"lol"?? :rolleyes:

Bit pathetic tbh. I've heard and read him say otherwise..."lol":rolleyes:



bit pathetic? what is? where's your argument?

[joema]

Couldn't be arsed anymore...see ya

Load of ye wanting an England B team. Embarrassing.

[IsMiseSean]

Speaking of naturalized brazilians....
What about all the ones down in Gort, any of them coming good soon?? :D :D

[Manc Irish Wolf]

All for giving someone a chance to represent a country which they are entitled to represent, providing they are interested. However, the thought of going with a begging bowl to a second rate player who lacks commitment to the cause would disturb me.

Initially thought Noble etc. was a good shout, however having seen him on Sky Sports News tonight talking about how much he loves playing for England and worst of all bellowing out the peasant's anthem that is God Save the Queen there is no way in the world that I would want to see him in a green shirt.

Agree with YoungIrish - blood the Kids before that lot.

[Predator]

Speaking of naturalized brazilians....
What about all the ones down in Gort, any of them coming good soon?? :D :D

Hahaha! I noticed that myself. The names of Seán Áron O' Nascimento or Ronald O'Kelly might be popping up in the future :eek:

In addition to youngirish's contention, I reckon that young people from the North who want to play for the Republic should also be given consideration before second or third generation 'Irish' people from Britain or elsewhere.

[joema]

Initially thought Noble etc. was a good shout, however having seen him on Sky Sports News tonight talking about how much he loves playing for England and worst of all bellowing out the peasant's anthem that is God Save the Queen there is no way in the world that I would want to see him in a green shirt.

Said I'd pop in here once more:p

Spot on, reminds me of when Matt Holland belted out GSTQ at the play-off final in Wembley while an Ireland international :o

[Razors left peg]

I really dont think this rule change will affect us too much in the near future. But where it might come into play is that it might stop England giving lads one or 2 caps just to tie them down to them so that if they develop further they will have no choice but to play for England. The likes of Noble and Ferdinand have been involved in the England set up for far too long for them or us to consider a change in countries.

[Stuttgart88]

Fair point, and that be the case with Andy Lonergan.

I think for us to even consider chasing Noble or Ferdinand would be just cringeworthy.

The likes of Houghton & Aldridge were overlooked by their birth countries, quite remarkably, as far as I can remember. I'm not sure if either was capped at any underage level - anyone know for sure? Both were late developers.

Reaching out to an uncapped and overlooked eligible player is a very different proposition to actively poaching a guy who has multiple appearances at U21 level.

[Dodge]

Like Andy O'Brien?

[Stuttgart88]

Multiple appearances?

[Dodge]

Just checked and he had only the one. I thought it was more.

I still couldn't accept him but fair enough, its not multiple appearances

[irishfan86]

As far as I remember he only played 1 friendly U-21 for England.

I think O'Brien genuinely wanted to play for us, but after the way he was targeted as a scapegoat along with Paddy Kenny following Cyprus away I'm not surprised either of them haven't been involved since to be honest.

[endabob1]

We could just get any prospective players to do this

http://www.ireland-information.com/quiz1.htm

Celtic Warriors nedd only apply :D

[Den Perry]

All for giving someone a chance to represent a country which they are entitled to represent, providing they are interested. However, the thought of going with a begging bowl to a second rate player who lacks commitment to the cause would disturb me.

Initially thought Noble etc. was a good shout, however having seen him on Sky Sports News tonight talking about how much he loves playing for England and worst of all bellowing out the peasant's anthem that is God Save the Queen there is no way in the world that I would want to see him in a green shirt.

Agree with YoungIrish - blood the Kids before that lot.

I agree.If Noble said those things then it is obvious that England is the only country he wants to play for - and good luck to him. I wasn't aware how strongly he felt until you said it there.However, I still feel that we should be open to taking on players born outside of Ireland

[Den Perry]

Said I'd pop in here once more:p

Spot on, reminds me of when Matt Holland belted out GSTQ at the play-off final in Wembley while an Ireland international :o

I remember hearing that Holland did this but never saw it for myself and thus thought it was a myth..or that it occurred before he played for Ireland. .What puzzles me is a lot of Irish supporters loved Holland, surely after this he must have lost popularity? I've always hated him since he started bi tching about Roy Keane in Saipan

Does anybody have a link to him singing GSTQ?

[irishfan86]

Obviously not a fan of our players singing GSTQ, but is it possible that someone could be born English, to English parents, love England, have an Irish grandparent who they visit fairly regularly in Ireland, and love Ireland as well? This player never gets a look in with England, and one day gets a call from the Irish management team, who compliment his recent performances and say, "we'd love to have you in the squad, if you'd like to represent Ireland."

Or a player with an English dad and an Irish mum. Born and raised in England, loves England, sings GSTQ, but is conscientious of being Irish as well.

Have fun villainizing Matt Holland if you want, but I don't feel like attacking a good servant to the Irish team who happens to have dual allegiances.

[tetsujin1979]

I remember hearing that Holland did this but never saw it for myself and thus thought it was a myth..or that it occurred before he played for Ireland. .What puzzles me is a lot of Irish supporters loved Holland, surely after this he must have lost popularity? I've always hated him since he started bi tching about Roy Keane in Saipan

Does anybody have a link to him singing GSTQ?
Holland had only one appearance for Ireland before that play off final. The last 4 minutes away to Macedonia.
He didn't play again until the US Cup the following summer, after the play off final.
Like yourself, I've never seen the video to prove it, but I've heard it enough times that I assumed there was at least some truth to it.

[drummerboy]

If a player was born and bred in England, surely you can't complain if he sings GSTQ. Now if he sang it at an Ireland game you could complain. After all he is representing Ireland at football not joining Sinn Fein.