Potentially eligible players thread

[paul_oshea]

You might have an argument on the skill level but not on fitness or sharpness.

[Charlie Darwin]

Relax for the moment, there's relatively little of substance in the story - so far.

Nigel, I went to Rovers v Bohs when home for the international break and didn't see much evidence of a rising standard! A dull 0-0 that I loved every minute of, but I think your protestations would be taken a bit more seriously with a better sense of context.
Ah now that's one game, an admittedly poor one at the start of the season when rustiness is a factor especially with the mammoth 4-month break. The standard overall is indusputably up over the last few years, and instead of there being two good teams and the rest like when Bohs/Rovers were at the top, there are now four teams as good as those sides and some decent teams outside that. The standard of players has improved, definitely.

[DannyInvincible]

...I don't see how the FAI (if the report is indeed accurate) believe he's worth adding to the ranks.

Maybe he'll move into the Championship and shatter all records next season. Who knows.

I wouldn't make a strong case for him, nor would it remotely bother me if he was ignored, as I don't think he's presently at or near a level where he can make an impact anyway, even as back-up, but, say, if he was to go on from here, having bloomed late, and smash records at a higher level, at least we'd have him as an option. That's all I'm saying and no more; I certainly wouldn't be calling for his inclusion and certainly not over possibly-better Ireland-based players either, but I have never seen the guy play so I wouldn't be able to make a reliable comparison. Has anyone here seen Garner play?


Despite players playing European football this year, scoring 20 goals a season in Ireland, and the rising standards of football here..that a 27 year old English fella who never made it at the highest level and only scoring goals in League One, arguably a slightly lower standard than the top League of Ireland sides, would be considered before them would be a disgrace in my opinion.

It's a soppy token gesture to League One! :p

I think Martin has a greater awareness of the League of Ireland though than, say, Trap ever did (that's a a start, at least), so you'd hope he'd be able to make a reliable judgment on players from the respective leagues so that he can choose the best players to ensure international success, which is his role. There'd be no reason for Martin to be ignoring LOI players if they can prove themselves useful. It wouldn't be in his best interests to overlook a whole league of Irish players operating at a similar-enough standard to that at which Garner is operating, if they could genuinely make some sort of mark on the international game. Anyway, it's not as if Garner has been selected at the expense of someone more deserving just yet or anything so we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.

Can we say with certainty that the (relative) standard is on the rise? (I'm not watching live week-in and week-out so will trust the judgment of others on that.) European performances in latter years wouldn't seem to conform with that view. I'm not saying things have deteriorated massively or anything either from 6-10 years ago, but I'm not so sure there has been any consistent form recently to suggest anything other than stagnancy. Europe is a good test and we'll see how we hold up this year. We did OK last year, but the year before that was abysmal. The years prior to that were no better than what you'd expect from Irish League teams who often have players off on holidays and send their back-room staff on opposition scouting missions to YouTube!

Dundalk, Cork, St. Pat's and Rovers are all competent Euro-savvy teams with personnel involved with experience, so we do have a strong contingent this year. I'd trust those teams to do better collectively than any other Irish sides in Europe.

[mark12345]

Ya think the LOI is a higher standard than League One? I would seriously doubt that. And saying that, League One is absolutely nothing to write home about, and neither is most of the Championship (as far as technical standards go)

[mark12345]

Dundalk, Cork, St. Pat's and Rovers are all competent Euro-savvy teams with personnel involved with experience, so we do have a strong contingent this year. I'd trust those teams to do better collectively than any other Irish sides in Europe.

I love your optimism. And I don't live at home in Ireland so you would know more than me on that score. But are we any closer to seeing a LOI team qualify for the Uefa Cup proper?

[Charlie Darwin]

Ya think the LOI is a higher standard than League One? I would seriously doubt that. And saying that, League One is absolutely nothing to write home about, and neither is most of the Championship (as far as technical standards go)
Nobody said L1 was better. Nigel said L1 clubs arguably play at a lower standard than the best LOI sides, not that the whole league is better.

[DannyInvincible]

Ya think the LOI is a higher standard than League One? I would seriously doubt that. And saying that, League One is absolutely nothing to write home about, and neither is most of the Championship (as far as technical standards go)

I reserved judgment. Comparisons are very difficult to make without something concrete. It's why I'm using European results to gauge where I think the League of Ireland is at or has been of late.


I love your optimism. And I don't live at home in Ireland so you would know more than me on that score. But are we any closer to seeing a LOI team qualify for the Uefa Cup proper?

I'm back home in Ireland at the minute, but I don't live here permanently either. What I meant was that those teams have decent pedigree or have personnel involved who know what they're up against when it comes to Europe, so I'd trust them to do better than the other teams in the league right now. Just to clarify, I'm not saying they'll do better than any Irish clubs have ever done before. What I'm saying is that if I had the choice of the four teams to represent us in Europe this year, those four would be my selection.

What do you mean by the "UEFA Cup proper"? Shamrock Rovers qualified for the Europa League group stage a few years ago. Isn't that the proper competition?

[nigel-harps1954]

Ya think the LOI is a higher standard than League One? I would seriously doubt that. And saying that, League One is absolutely nothing to write home about, and neither is most of the Championship (as far as technical standards go)

I firmly believe the top half of the League of Ireland Premier Division would comfortably sit in the Championship in England. The lower half of the Premier Division would sit around mid-table in League One.

I've watched plenty of both leagues, and with no allegiances to anyone in English football. It's a long drawn out argument, but Irish football is, in my view, 100% on the rise and is not getting the credit it deserves.

European games are no gauge of where the league is at either. St Pat's got a better result against Legia Warsaw than Celtic last season, does that make them better than Celtic, ergo League of Ireland is much better than the Scottish Premier League? No, it means St Pats got a better result than Celtic and nothing else.

There are many reasons most of these leagues can't really be compared at all, due to finances, exposure, media coverage, sponsorship and a whole host of other reasons, but in simple footballing terms, the League of Ireland doesn't get the credit it deserves and some of the high quality goals scored in recent weeks shows exactly the sort of quality in the league, for instance, Charlie Adam scores a goal from the halfway line for Stoke and it's World News in Sports...yet Greg Bolger did almost the exact same thing a week previous, with much less space to work with, and it doesn't get the same coverage whatsoever.

[CraftyToePoke]

I have no real problem with a guy like this being put in storage in case we are stuck or he blooms suddenly, its not depriving any home grown players space in any squads, or hindering development of any other Irish players to do so after all. Lots of mentions of Eoin Doyle, but if he measures up at Cardiff then this doesn't impact on him. Chambers, Stearman, Ambrose all threw their hat in, as they are entitled to do as Irish eligible players, none have ever been selected thus far.

Also, as Tets mentioned, this was not carried anywhere outside the Irish Post paper, a paper for Irish, 2G & 3G UK based people primarily, where this would be more newsworthy, but even at that, a slow news day for them I'd wager.

[CraftyToePoke]

What do you mean by the "UEFA Cup proper"? Shamrock Rovers qualified for the Europa League group stage a few years ago. Isn't that the proper competition?

This was my understanding of it also when I watched them Vs Spurs, for points in London. Or does he mean knock out stages ?

[Charlie Darwin]

I firmly believe the top half of the League of Ireland Premier Division would comfortably sit in the Championship in England. The lower half of the Premier Division would sit around mid-table in League One.
Ah, you're overegging it now. Over 33 games, Dundalk of last year could have done well in League One, but over 46 games they wouldn't have had the squad. Look at how a couple of injuries decimated Pats in the return leg v Legia. The squads of even the top teams in the LOI are probably 16 or 17 players deep, with the possible exception of Cork, but the rest would need more depth to compete in England. If they had access to the same pool of players, travelling fans, income etc they could compete in League One I think but that's hypothetical.

[DannyInvincible]

European games are no gauge of where the league is at either. St Pat's got a better result against Legia Warsaw than Celtic last season, does that make them better than Celtic, ergo League of Ireland is much better than the Scottish Premier League? No, it means St Pats got a better result than Celtic and nothing else.

I wouldn't base judgment on isolated results. The co-efficient is built up by taking into account all participating clubs' results over the course of five seasons and, I feel, gives a fairly reliable indicator of where we are and where we are going as a league in Europe as a result. It balances or averages out the results, which cuts out the significance of unusual or "freak" results. Of course, it's difficult to compare us with League One, which has no European representatives, but the co-efficient ranking is the only concrete competitive external comparison we have really and can tell us how we're progressing or regressing relative to other premier-level leagues around Europe.

[gastric]

Take it all with a pinch of salt, the article itself is fairly short, there's no quote from the player, management, or the club involved and I haven't seen any other news outlet pick up the story

This to me seems more realistic. Garner is knocking them in in League One. His agent wants to raise Garner's profile to get him a move and contacts the FAI. They tell the agent, as he meets the criteria, Garner could play for Ireland. When Martin O'Neill hears about this, he intially thinks he has picked up a West Indian cricketer until he googles and he realises it is in fact a League One player. That is then the end of Martin's interest.

[Olé Olé]

Most agreed that it was a poor game, but in all fairness, Pat Fenlon has never really had attractive football as part of his managerial CV.

The likes of Dundalk, St Pats and Cork are starting to really lift the standard. Shamrock Rovers have a good side that will be hard to beat without playing spectacular football and players such a Keith Fahey, an Irish international only a couple of years ago and Mikey Drennan, a rising Irish star only a year ago.

I firmly believe that any League One player picked ahead of a top League of Ireland player playing at least a handful of European games this season would be a disgrace.

The fortune of young recent/current LOI strikers is an interesting one. Pat Hoban wasn't very heralded as a teen and has made the move to Oxford, but it has taken him a while to register his first goal. Christy Fagan was far more heralded and seen as a future senior international as a teen but he's chosen to stay in Ireland after a good season here when he surely would have had a vast array of option in League Two at least. Then, you've Mikey Drennan who probably showed more at an older age than Fagan did at his PL club. He's very young (21 recently) and has pedigree. If he can plunder in a good tally this season then he'll be irresistible for the senior set-up maybe?

I wonder will any of the three get a senior international cap? A lot of work to do by them anyway, given that former Sligo/Shams man Eoin Doyle hasn't picked one up yet and has an awesome record in L1 but hasn't translated that to the Championship yet. Paddy Madden hasn't kicked on from his cap two years ago.

[mark12345]

Sorry, I meant the Europa League, and in all honesty I did forget about Rovers a few years ago. They did fantastic. I would like to see other LOI teams follow suit, but it seems there is no one on the horizon at present.

[Stuttgart88]

I can see where Nigel et al are coming from. Dundalk are playing great stuff right now and had a great result last season in one leg, as did Pats. I can see a great vibe in at least six LOI clubs with potential for more. Yet it still falls just that bit short of the standard that is that bit better than good regional football - something that speaks for the country rather than your town.

Could you just imagine if a wealthy Irishman wrote off the FAI's debts and allowed the FAI to offer, say, EUR 5mm per year funding towards the League funded by the national team plus private sponsors. A proper tightly regulated licensing system wrt ownership criteria and financial standards is put in place to prevent opportunistic milking of the money.

From that simple point onwards the youth clubs now have a financially viable alternative to selling teenagers to crap Englosh regional clubs.

I'm not a fan of looking at the Irish rugby model as a model for Irish football because the landscapes are so different, but in a simple sense the rugby message that a joined-up fully "owned" national structure works can also be transferred to Irish football. We don't need regional franchises because there is enough local "organic" foundation in Rovers, Bohs, Pats, Cork, Dundalk, Sligo, Limerick and Derry (plus a few others) to make something marketable with better funding.

We'll never be able to keep even a relatively mediocre player like David Meyler in Ireland, but is it really daft to believe we can offer a good career to someone like Adam Rooney to stay at home if a well funded league can afford a good living? The FAI could afford the cost of servicing a strong domestic set up, bottom to top, if it had its debts written off by Desmond, O'Brien or whoever. Either could write off FAI debt in an instant.

I do wonder if DD's ownership of Celtic is actually a conflict of interest in this sense. A really strong LOI would actually compete with Celtic for support from Ireland. That's why DD's (part) ownership of the FAI debt should attract more scrutiny IMHO.

[Yard of Pace]

DD, O'Brien and McManus could find enough change down the back of the couch to revamp every club in the two divisions. Not that they should have to. But....

[Yard of Pace]

Doyle missed a one on one today. Romario he is not.

[IsMiseSean]

The lower half of the Premier Division would sit around mid-table in League One.


Having watched Galway Utd v Sligo Rvs Friday night I seriously doubt either of them would cut it in League Two.
I reckon Dundalk, Cork & Shamrock Rvs would compete at the top of League One though. I'm looking forward to their visits to ED Park over the summer.

[DannyInvincible]

In light of recent discussion, Martin O'Neill is keeping tabs on Dundalk's Dane Massey: http://talkofthetown.ie/2015/04/16/ireland-boss-oneill-to-run-the-rule-over-dundalk-full-back-massey/

[tetsujin1979]

One line mention of Garner from O'Neil in today's Independent: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/martin-oneill-will-give-striking-options-the-hard-sell-31149627.html

O'Neill did confirm that the eligibility of Preston's Joe Garner is being explored, a 26-year-old striker who has a good record in League One but wouldn't set the pulses racing like Bamford would.

[DeLorean]

Apparently Chelsea are preparing a long term deal for Bamford. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3039669/Chelsea-open-contract-talks-Patrick-Bamford-striker-s-loan-heroics.html) Not sure if this is concrete though, always a bit dubious when there are no quotes and it's the Daily Mail!

Norwich v Middlesbrough is live on Sky tonight, should be very interesting.

[gastric]

I know it's the Indo, but has Mack Squealish definitely committed to us? Reading this article it gives that impression.http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/oneill-cautious-over-fasttracking-grealish-31153881.html

[Deckydee]

http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/fai-checking-eligibility-of-in-form-preston-striker-garner

http://www.the42.ie/preston-boss-joe-garner-ireland-links-2047131-Apr2015/

Quote from a Preston Fans website:

He doesn't qualify.

Garner's grandparents - W Garner & J Batty & J Harker & J Bartrupe were all born in Lancashire between 1935 & 1941. Any idiot with 5 spare minutes who knows how to navigate Lancashire BMD can find that information out.

[Stuttgart88]

I know it's the Indo, but has Mack Squealish definitely committed to us? Reading this article it gives that impression.http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/oneill-cautious-over-fasttracking-grealish-31153881.html
Either way, it's a bit of an insight into O'Neill's thinking. The Villa v QPR was massive, against seasoned pros, and Grealish was every inch at home.

Edit: Good enough to start an FA Cup semi final v Liverpool too.

[Stuttgart88]

Stephen Hunt thinks one Irish eligible player is worthy of a call up, another might have to wait

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/stephen-hunt-one-day-grealish-may-become-the-player-he-thinks-he-is-31153883.html

[paul_oshea]

Both winter and mcnulty saying greahlish is completely unfazed, relaxed and calm on the ball. I'm sure he could handle an Ireland v Scotland game.

[Stuttgart88]

Just set up Delph to put Villa 2-1 up, though Delph still had work to do.

We should cap him against England. It won't tie him, but he'd be kneecapped by the English hardcore if he then went on to play for England :)

[paul_oshea]

Just setup Delph. could be back to the England debate after all. :D

[paul_oshea]

I assumed Richie would be an arrogant Dub*

Stephen hunt answers the question asked on here many times in a perfectly Stephen hunt way.

[CraftyToePoke]

Pearce on BBC5 live comparing him with Sterling and how he has given much the better performance thus far in the game today.

And again, just now, his performance has been singled out.

[elroy]

Rave reviews as out him on bbc website from today's game, grealish fever is about to go into overdrive

[SkStu]

He was very good. A few lapses in concentration and lost the ball with a few lazy passes but he really is nice to watch play. We need to cap him now.

[tricky_colour]

yea heard some good comments on bbc radio 5 live. Only saw a bit of the game on a choppy stream, sort of assist for 2nd?
Played a part in build up to 1st down the left.

[SkStu]

Stephen hunt answers the question asked on here many times in a perfectly Stephen hunt way.

Not sure what this is about? Or my quote, clicking the link to what you've quoted takes me to a different post altogether...

[SkStu]

yea heard some good comments on bbc radio 5 live. Only saw a bit of the game on a choppy stream, sort of assist for 2nd?
Played a part in build up to 1st down the left.

Nice little assist for the second but Delphi did a lot of work to score.

[tricky_colour]

Nice little assist for the second but Delphi did a lot of work to score.

Highlights here, Jack played a part in both goals with a very similar ball into box, from about 2 mins onwards,
as the commentator says, great vision.

http://videa.hu/videok/sport/astliv-4Nnu3M0DtXBgU0wt?play=1

But of course the problem is the better he plays........... well you know the rest!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/fa-league-cups/aston-villa-2-liverpool-1-player-ratings-christian-benteke-jack-grealish-or-fabian-delph-who-led-villa-to-the-fa-cup-final-10188154.html



Steven Gerrard

Perhaps forced back into action too soon, after Lucas Leiva’s injury, the former England skipper was given the run around by Jack Grealish. 6


Jack Grealish
Despite wearing his socks far too low, Jack Grealish impressed once more. Tim Sherwood has got grand designs for the young talent and you can see why. 9




Christian-Benteke.jpg
Feed the beat and he will score. The Belgian hotshot has been in stunning form since Sherwood’s arrival at Villa Park and he continues that today. 7



Fabian Delph

A menace, undoubtedly, but Fabian Delph will always have his physicality called into question. Sometimes liable to overcompensate, as we saw when he risked a penalty on Raheem Sterling, the England man put in a good shift. 8

[paul_oshea]

Gerrard was recalled, as expected, but his influence was virtually non-existent in a first half where Villa were the more relaxed and confident side, exemplified by the strolling composure of Grealish and the power of Benteke.

[Stuttgart88]

Did you write that yourself! Very prosaic and, it pains me to say, very accurate. That's exactly how I'd describe Grealish. He just loves the ball.

[Olé Olé]

Loves the ball and loves Villa. He's really a kid living out his dream- as his twitter demonstrates. He probably won't be able to sleep with excitement before the FA Cup final.

[SkStu]

Did you write that yourself! Very prosaic and, it pains me to say, very accurate. That's exactly how I'd describe Grealish. He just loves the ball.

The eloquence and clarity of thought of that paragraph is something I haven't see from that POS in the 10 or so years I've been on here. Copy and paste job, gan dabht.

[paul_oshea]

of course it is and you both read the same and then tried to play it off to make yourselves look good.

I can't seem to quote on this thing properly.

[SkStu]

I still don't know what you're talking about.

[tricky_colour]

He looks like a promising player, but he really does need to pull his socks up.

[DeLorean]

A landmark day for the potentially eligible players thread, as Bamford and Garner win the player of the year awards for the Championship and League One respectively.

[Olé Olé]

A landmark day for the potentially eligible players thread, as Bamford and Garner win the player of the year awards for the Championship and League One respectively.

Who's this Danny Mayor that won the League Two award? We're slacking...

[Razors left peg]

Cant wait to see the Twitter Universe go into overdrive when Grealish is seen belting out God save the queen in the cup final like Matty Holland

[the doc]

Cant wait to see the Twitter Universe go into overdrive when Grealish is seen belting out God save the queen in the cup final like Matty Holland

I had club Wembley compos today, talk amongst the suits is England will be calling.......

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

He was very good. A few lapses in concentration and lost the ball with a few lazy passes but he really is nice to watch play. We need to cap him now.

"I don’t think everything that has happened with Grealish is entirely his fault. I think the FAI have been too eager to cap players in order to stop them playing for other countries and Grealish may well be in demand, although maybe not as in demand as he would have expected at the start of the season.

I agree with Martin O’Neill’s comments in today’s paper and I think it’s a good sign that he isn’t planning to bring him into a squad before he’s ready. It is good for the other players too. Getting into an Ireland squad has to mean something. It’s no good if it’s just a political game with other associations".

Stephen Hunt

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/fai-checking-eligibility-of-in-form-preston-striker-garner

http://www.the42.ie/preston-boss-joe-garner-ireland-links-2047131-Apr2015/

Quote from a Preston Fans website:

He doesn't qualify.

Garner's grandparents - W Garner & J Batty & J Harker & J Bartrupe were all born in Lancashire between 1935 & 1941. Any idiot with 5 spare minutes who knows how to navigate Lancashire BMD can find that information out.

He has been bog standard whenever he has played in the Championship. He's 27 now, so there is marginal room for improvement. Crazy stuff that he would be considered for selection over Eoin Doyle when there are no question marks over his eligibility but hey he's (Garner) English so he must be better right?!

Cox, Jutkiewicz, Best & Folan all have substantially better records than Garner at Championship level and they patently aren't good enough for Intl. level. Even Paddy Madden has a better record at League One level and is younger to boot. Give him a bloody chance even. At least he has a bit of time on his side.