Potentially eligible players thread

[ULsurvey1]

I guess if they are not thinking of Ireland at that stage, they might not have the paperwork done? Like, for a lot of players playing for Ireland is the second prize when the England dream doesn't work out. They'd need to have a canny agent/parent... or a canny FAI scout?

[ColourfulPeanut]

Yeah, Conor Gallagher is in the same situation - played a competitive underage international after his 21st birthday
Are we entirely sure that the 21st birthday rule applies for competitive U21 games and not just senior matches?

Lots of rumblings of Eddie Nketiah declaring for Ghana having got his passport. He was England captain at the last U21 Euros and was 21 during the tournament

[Eirambler]

Are we entirely sure that the 21st birthday rule applies for competitive U21 games and not just senior matches?

Lots of rumblings of Eddie Nketiah declaring for Ghana having got his passport. He was England captain at the last U21 Euros and was 21 during the tournament

Nketiah's parents are Ghanian so he would likely have been a Ghanaian citizen from birth. So the Under 21 appearances wouldn't be a problem in that case (see my previous post yesterday).

The under 21 after 21 rule and the senior caps rule are two completely different rules in the regulations by the way. A competitive senior cap after your 21st birthday ties you to that country full stop.

Hudson Odoi possibly switching to Ghana also. He has three senior caps for England a few years ago, but before he turned 21, so they didn't quite manage to tie him down. Amazing how qualifying for a major finals changes these players' views on their nationality...

EDIT: Also, just to make things even more complicated, different countries have different rules regarding citizenship from birth to people born overseas. From a quick Google I see that Ghanaians born abroad are automatically Ghanaian citizens from birth if they have a grandparent born in Ghana (This is not the case for Ireland, you have to apply for citizenship sought through your grandparent). So the Under 21 rule wouldn't apply to a second gen Ghanaian wanting to play for Ghana anyway, as they would be Ghanaian since birth.

It's headwrecking stuff.

[Olé Olé]

Nketiah's parents are Ghanian so he would likely have been a Ghanaian citizen from birth. So the Under 21 appearances wouldn't be a problem in that case (see my previous post yesterday).

The under 21 after 21 rule and the senior caps rule are two completely different rules in the regulations by the way. A competitive senior cap after your 21st birthday ties you to that country full stop.

Hudson Odoi possibly switching to Ghana also. He has three senior caps for England a few years ago, but before he turned 21, so they didn't quite manage to tie him down. Amazing how qualifying for a major finals changes these players' views on their nationality...

EDIT: Also, just to make things even more complicated, different countries have different rules regarding citizenship from birth to people born overseas. From a quick Google I see that Ghanaians born abroad are automatically Ghanaian citizens from birth if they have a grandparent born in Ghana (This is not the case for Ireland, you have to apply for citizenship sought through your grandparent). So the Under 21 rule wouldn't apply to a second gen Ghanaian wanting to play for Ghana anyway, as they would be Ghanaian since birth.

It's headwrecking stuff.

But Ghana have a good track record on qualification, don't they? If qualification for a tournament was their sole motivation then they would surely have made the decision before the opportunity to go to Qatar.

Hudson Odoi has rejected numerous England call ups at under 21 level and the speculation was that he was going with Ghana also. His father is a Ghanaian and was a pro footballer there. There's a story about the adulation he received on a trip back there last summer: https://www.modernghana.com/sports/1142525/watching-hearts-of-oak-was-my-craziest-experience.html

I think both players have very good chances of (further) England caps. Nketiah has looked very good these past couple of weeks. Hudson Odoi is still only 21 as well.

No doubt that the English media will spin this as the lads not being good enough like they did with Zaha. I think it is admirable by both players.

[Eirambler]

Well they missed the last one and only scraped into this one on away goals, so it seems to me as though Nketiah was possibly biding his time, as he could have declared for them at any point and actually helped them to qualify.

Hudson Odoi, to be fair to him, has been ineligible since he took the England caps and only becomes eligible just in time for the World Cup - four days before the tournament starts. So probably harsh to suggest that about him alright.

[elatedscum]

EDIT: Also, just to make things even more complicated, different countries have different rules regarding citizenship from birth to people born overseas. From a quick Google I see that Ghanaians born abroad are automatically Ghanaian citizens from birth if they have a grandparent born in Ghana (This is not the case for Ireland, you have to apply for citizenship sought through your grandparent). So the Under 21 rule wouldn't apply to a second gen Ghanaian wanting to play for Ghana anyway, as they would be Ghanaian since birth.

It's headwrecking stuff.

So, is the solution to convince the government to change the laws regarding citizenship? Basically if you or your parents register on the foreign birth's register, you're a citizen - so would it be that big a deal to grant everyone citizenship in the way? I know it won't happen cause it's crazy to base laws on football players eligibility, but is there any real difference to the country whether they're citizens or people who can be citizens at the drop of a hat

[Eirambler]

Yes, pretty much. If Ireland dropped the Foreign Birth Register system and declared all granny rule qualifiers as Irish from birth they'd all be Irish citizens before playing for anyone else, so the Under 21 thing would never be an issue. But realistically that's not going to happen.

This is all on the Luxembourg FA by the way, it was them that brought up the issue. Before that we brought in Callum Robinson, who should have been deemed ineligible at that point (he's become eligible since under the new rules), but neither the English FA or FIFA raised it as an issue.

[Demesne Lad]

Any idea regarding the eligibility of Connor O'Riordan, who has just signed his first professional contract with his local team, Crewe Alexandra, having come through their academy system. Aged 18, 6' 4" -- yes, he's a centre back.

[liamoo11]

Any idea regarding the eligibility of Connor O'Riordan, who has just signed his first professional contract with his local team, Crewe Alexandra, having come through their academy system. Aged 18, 6' 4" -- yes, he's a centre back.
He has played for us at under 20 this year

[Snapshot]

Any idea regarding the eligibility of Connor O'Riordan, who has just signed his first professional contract with his local team, Crewe Alexandra, having come through their academy system. Aged 18, 6' 4" -- yes, he's a centre back.


He has played for us at under 20 this year

Here's a local interview with Connor - comes over very well. Good luck to him - he'll need it playing for dire Crewe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUZgDQ0IuVs

[dynamo kerry]

I didn't get where I am today without scrupulously researching players' eligibility.

(I think only posters of a certain generation might get this one)
The rise and fall of the quality of my memory means its kinda hit and miss on these things.

The End.

[Diggs246]

Sorry if already discussed. But Nathan byrne of Derby. Is he eligible? He is 29 and was their player of the season

I'm going on his name and nothing else

[Eirambler]

I don't think so. And he's not good enough anyway, I'd have Christie and McNamara ahead of him at RB, as well as the two obvious ones. Similarly at centre back we have better players than Byrne even if he was eligible.

[SkStu]

Jake Clarke-Salter declares interest in switching allegiances to us - he’s a former England underage international and captain and Chelsea academy player, highly rated, who recently joined QPR. One of the embarrassment of riches thread but maybe a bit too soon :)

[Eirambler]

Ah great, a centre back. Just what we need...

To be fair to him he is at least a left sided centre back, where most if not all of our centre backs are right footed. So he may be of interest to Kenny in that respect. I don't suppose he can play left wing back?

It sounds like he was very good at Coventry last year and will be a regular at QPR this season when fit, though he does seem to have a questionable injury record.

But ultimately being a good championship player would only be enough to get him to the fringes of our squad - and the likes of Omobamidele, O'Shea, McGuinness, Dunne and McNally are all younger than him and play at that level, so may be more worthy of selection. And that's before you consider Egan, Duffy and Collins who would also be ahead of him, possibly Lenihan too. So a lot of players for him to get past if he wants to play.

For what it's worth I always think players should just go and get the paperwork sorted if they want to play for us, rather than "declaring an interest" like this.

[Diggs246]

I would say less then zero percent chance he had an Irish passport while playing for England U21s

Unless that rule has changed?

[Razors left peg]

It has, thats why Ryan Johanson was able to play for us

[Diggs246]

It has, thats why Ryan Johanson was able to play for us

Excellent it was a ridiculous rule

[Razors left peg]

Excellent it was a ridiculous rule

There are plenty of others on here who know the eligibility rules a lot better than me so I dont know where exactly the breakoff is these days

[tetsujin1979]

He did play at the 2019 U21 European Championship - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_UEFA_European_Under-21_Championship_squads#England - and this was after he turned 21, so does he still qualify if he did not have his Irish passport at the time?

[Eirambler]

That rule still exists. It didn't apply to Johansson because his Luxembourg caps were before his 21st birthday.

Clarke-Salter was capped for England Under 21 after his 21st birthday, but he gets off on a technicality. Following pressure from a player/association (can't remember which one, it might have been a player that wanted to play for Morocco but had underage caps for Spain), that rule was amended so that it only applies to underage caps obtained after September 2020, when the new rules came in.

The justification was that it would be unfair to penalise someone who took underage caps before that date, obviously not knowing that the rules were going to change.

So, in Clarke Salter's case he was capped for England Under 21 after his 21st birthday, but that was in 2019. So he should be fine to switch as long as he has a grandparent born in Ireland. But if someone younger tried to do the same thing and won those England caps after September 2020, they'd be ineligible.

Edit - the test case player was Munir El-Haddadi.

https://wap.business-standard.com/article/sports/fifa-clears-munir-el-haddadi-to-change-allegiance-from-spain-to-morocco-121020501668_1.html

[liamoo11]

That rule still exists. It didn't apply to Johansson because his Luxembourg caps were before his 21st birthday.

Clarke-Salter was capped for England Under 21 after his 21st birthday, but he gets off on a technicality. Following pressure from a player/association (can't remember which one, it might have been a player that wanted to play for Morocco but had underage caps for Spain), that rule was amended so that it only applies to underage caps obtained after September 2020, when the new rules came in.

The justification was that it would be unfair to penalise someone who took underage caps before that date, obviously not knowing that the rules were going to change.

So, in Clarke Salter's case he was capped for England Under 21 after his 21st birthday, but that was in 2019. So he should be fine to switch as long as he has a grandparent born in Ireland. But if someone younger tried to do the same thing and won those England caps after September 2020, they'd be ineligible.

Edit - the test case player was Munir El-Haddadi.

https://wap.business-standard.com/article/sports/fifa-clears-munir-el-haddadi-to-change-allegiance-from-spain-to-morocco-121020501668_1.html

Was looking at England 19s who are in the euro final . Delap not involved much . I wonder if he might come on board for the 21 s ? Louie barry didn't make the squad. Egan riley not on the squad either and looks like he is due to sign for Burnley on a permanent deal. All 3 woukd be nice 21s additions

[Eirambler]

Barry and Egan-Riley should definitely be considering Ireland at this point. They don't seem to be making any real impact in the English underage system. Delap would be great to get but he's there or thereabouts with that England Under 19 team, battling it out with Dane Scarlett for the starting spot up front. I expect he'll graduate to the England Under 21s and play with them in the next campaign. But yes, the other two should really be getting in touch with Jim Goodwin before the next Under 21 campaign starts - or maybe he should be getting in touch with them.

[elatedscum]

Barry and Egan-Riley should definitely be considering Ireland at this point. They don't seem to be making any real impact in the English underage system. Delap would be great to get but he's there or thereabouts with that England Under 19 team, battling it out with Dane Scarlett for the starting spot up front. I expect he'll graduate to the England Under 21s and play with them in the next campaign. But yes, the other two should really be getting in touch with Jim Goodwin before the next Under 21 campaign starts - or maybe he should be getting in touch with them.

Barry has always talked about the close bond he had with his grandfather and how proud he was that his grandfather got the chance to watch him play for Ireland before he died and how he was open to playing for ireland or england one day, wasn't sure what the future would hold... definitely someone i'd be chasing if i was Jim Crawford

[liamoo11]

England getting absolutely slaughtered by Israel in first half in the final but its only one nil so all set up for delap ro come off the bench to win it for rgem

[Eirambler]

England getting home in the end, sounds like Delap has had a big impact since coming on and set up their third goal which has sealed the win.

Good effort from Israel though after knocking out France as well, we're probably going to see a few of those lads in the Under 21 playoffs unfortunately, now that their Under 19 year has finished.

[elatedscum]

https://www.allnigeriasoccer.com/read_news.php?nid=44016

Dude I’d never heard of before, born in 2003, previously played for Glenmuir and Palace. Think he’s probably getting a little ahead of himself. Purely judging by the level he’s playing at, I’d imagine he’d be behind a lot of players for our next 21s group… and Nigeria would probably have more options to choose from than us

[Eirambler]

I saw from Tets' Irish Abroad Twitter feed that a 21 year old player called Sean Robertson made his debut in League 1 for Forest Green at the weekend. He is listed as English/Irish on Transfermarkt but as Northern Irish on Soccerbase and ESPN.

Looks like he has come from the Crystal Palace youth setup and impressed on trial at Derby during the summer but chose Forest Green instead to improve his chances of playing first team football.

Anyone know the story with him, obviously he'd be a bit away from Under 21 selection even, but is he actually an Irish/Irish eligible player?

[tetsujin1979]

I'm not actually sure myself, but he's listed as Irish on a few sites, and English on others, and as you say, transfermarkt list him as both.
Don't think he's ever been called up to an Irish squad.

[sadloserkid]

He's listed as both in Football Manager for whatever that's worth. Won a bunch of senior caps in my 2020 game. 🙂

[elatedscum]

Came across this guy. i think he’s related to an american girl I know. Suppose you could argue it’s a similar level to what our 21s keepers (Maher, McNicholas and Odumosu) are playing…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Rando

[tetsujin1979]

Interesting one - Joshua O'Brien was on the bench for Salford City tonight.
born in Ireland, but moved to the US at only a few weeks old, Was with Watford, but got released in May and signed a contract with Salford in July.
Comes from a big family, and all of them seem to be in the US development system
Article about him on theathletic here: https://theathletic.com/2747158/2021/08/05/josh-obrien-the-irish-american-who-went-on-trial-at-watford-and-ended-up-winning-a-pro-deal/

[elatedscum]

Bumped into someone involved in underage football in the FAI about a year ago who spoke highly of both him and Pearse O’Brien who plays in America (no relation). Was slightly surprised that neither have been involved at all recently. Pearse would be an u19 this season and Josh would have been last season

[tetsujin1979]

Josh was in a training camp a year ago - https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/u19-mohan-hosts-u19-training-camp-in-uk - but didn't make it to the squad for the friendlies against Sweden or the qualifiers a few weeks later

[paul_oshea]

What about that O'Brien fella for forest? Anyone mentioned him before? He's a midfielder too

[SkStu]

I looked into that a couple months ago and couldn’t find anything even remotely connecting him to Ireland - except a few posts on this thread a couple years ago!

[SkStu]

Saw this yesterday, another one that has been mentioned on here before I’m sure. Jack McGlynn out of the MLS has been the subject of a formal approach to switch allegiances.

https://punditarena.com/football/ronan-calvert/exclusive-fai-approach-mls-teenager-jack-mcglynn-ireland-american/?amp

[Depps]

Somebody from the FaI needs to get on the phone to O’Brien - looking like a real prospect for Forrest against West Ham this afternoon

[Diggs246]

Well he has to qualify? Anyone know?

[Eirambler]

Well he's 23 and has never played international football at any age group despite playing a number of seasons of first team football in the EFL. So, if he was Irish eligible, you'd imagine we'd have heard about it by now.

There will be tens of thousands of people in the midlands and north of England with Irish sounding surnames who aren't Irish eligible, the link in some cases will be many generations back.

[Diggs246]

Well he's 23 and has never played international football at any age group despite playing a number of seasons of first team football in the EFL. So, if he was Irish eligible, you'd imagine we'd have heard about it by now.

There will be tens of thousands of people in the midlands and north of England with Irish sounding surnames who aren't Irish eligible, the link in some cases will be many generations back.

Your giving the FAI way too much credit!
Ciaran Clark had to call them via Richard Dunne. The new lad from Blackpool again had to call the FAI

[JR89]

CJ Hamilton had done the square root of **** all to even warrant being on the radar. Never played above League Two until two years ago and had turned 25. And he spent half that season injured along with half the next season when Blackpool got promoted.

[samhaydenjr]

Watched the end of the Sunderland/QPR came yesterday and wondered if it might be worth our while approaching Dennis Cirkin - he might yet make it for England but he's probably a bit down the pecking order right now. He would walk into the current Latvia squad but could fit in well for us.

I think the other main potential switches at this point would be Clarke-Salter, who has already expressed interest, Louie Barry, CJ Egan-Riley, Kieran Dowell and Jonjoe Kenny - if we got a few of them on board it would certainly give us good depth, at the very least

[Eirambler]

Cirkin will probably stick with England for now as he is eligible for their Under 21s for the next campaign. Longer term he will probably end up switching to one of Ireland or Latvia though.

Clarke-Salter is probably there for us if we want him. We're not exactly short of centre backs though. Egan-Riley and Barry may come back to us in time, they seem to be struggling for competitive minutes at the England underage age groups.

Dowell and Kenny are almost certainly ineligible for us due to their England Under 21 caps after their 21st birthdays.

[Diggs246]

CJ Hamilton had done the square root of **** all to even warrant being on the radar. Never played above League Two until two years ago and had turned 25. And he spent half that season injured along with half the next season when Blackpool got promoted.

My point is he is from Waterford originally the fai had no idea who he was. He had to make contact and by the way he was immediately selected

[Fixer82]

Cirkin will probably stick with England for now as he is eligible for their Under 21s for the next campaign. Longer term he will probably end up switching to one of Ireland or Latvia though.


That's exactly the kind of commitment we want!!!

[Eirambler]

That's exactly the kind of commitment we want!!!

I'd say we'd be his third choice given he has lived in England for as long as he can remember and his family are Latvian. Not someone I'd be expecting to declare for us and if he did you'd suspect it might be because a) he's not good enough for England and b) Latvia are hopeless and probably won't qualify for any tournament finals any time soon.

[SkStu]

Saw this yesterday, another one that has been mentioned on here before I’m sure. Jack McGlynn out of the MLS has been the subject of a formal approach to switch allegiances.

https://punditarena.com/football/ronan-calvert/exclusive-fai-approach-mls-teenager-jack-mcglynn-ireland-american/?amp

rumoured to be on the way to PSV.

[Eirambler]

I'm guessing Tommy Conway is another Irish sounding player who isn't remotely eligible for us unless anyone knows otherwise? Has scored three in three for Bristol City and has a name that sounds like he should be playing corner forward for Mayo.

[MylesNotMiley]

A centre midfielder named Quinn McNeill started for Charlotte in the MLS last night. Born in Cork according to his wikipedia page.