Potentially eligible players thread

[DannyInvincible]

Here is the full content from the Irish Daily Mail:

https://image.ibb.co/jzOQXn/capture.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXnND4ZX4AEArmp.jpg

The mini-piece that runs from the back page to page 48 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXnND4ZX4AEArmp.jpg:large) is a watered-down version of the more explicit and accusatory content that was published on Sunday and pulled the following day.

In the longer piece, O'Neill rationalises his chase of Sean Scannell and attempts to distinguish this from the FAI recruiting northern players on the basis that Scannell's bloodline is from the north. In O'Neill's opinion, this means that "[the IFA are] not taking [Scannell] off the Republic" - O'Neill places his pursuit of Paddy McEleney in the same bracket - whilst a player switching from the IFA to the FAI is, in O'Neill's implied opinion, being taken from the IFA by the FAI. You can he sure that O'Neill is employing here the meaning of the word "take" that refers to the act of snatching something that isn't rightfully yours.

Thus, when the IFA facilitate a former FAI player moving in their (the IFA's) direction, O'Neill appears to be suggesting that the process is somehow purer, more correct or kosher - that it is simply the case of a player returning to his rightful home - but when a northern player moves in the opposite direction, this process is somehow tainted or sullied by the fact that that player may not have a bloodline to the 26 counties.

O'Neill is very much losing his bearings here by trying to apply to reality his own biased and prejudicial preconception (as to what he feels should really render a player eligible to play for an association) rather than trying to look at the rules and the practical nature of Irish nationality law in a rational and objective fashion.

Scannell's father is indeed from Armagh, but what has a bloodline to a territory got to do with anything? It doesn't make a player any more or less eligible for one particular association as long as that player satisfies the relevant eligibility criteria for another association, nor does it give the IFA some sort of exclusive right or preferential access to a player. Insofar as Scannell was eligible to play for the FAI, it doesn't matter how he was eligible, and insofar as he played for the FAI, his potential switch to the IFA is no different to a player who played for the IFA switching in the other direction.

As it happens, Scannell, as the son of an Irish national born on the island of Ireland is an Irish national as of birthright. Paddy McEleney is also an Irish national as of birthright, having been born in Derry. Nationality as of birthright is as close a connection you can get to a particular country in citizenship law internationally. There is no closer connection. In attempting to imply that the IFA should have more of a claim than the FAI over the likes of Scannell or that the likes of McEleney is rightfully theirs comes dangerously close to denying or diminishing the validity of the Irish nationality of Irish nationals born in the north. It's exceptionally poor form from O'Neill.

(I was sent the first photo by Del, by the way, just to give him credit for it.)

[gastric]

To be a fly on the wall when Michael meets Martin. 'Ever hear of the Good Friday Agreement Michael you dick?' End of.

[Olé Olé]

To be a fly on the wall when Michael meets Martin. 'Ever hear of the Good Friday Agreement Michael you dick?' End of.

O'Neill has never expressed an opinion on the switching point though. Is Eunan O'Kane the last player to have switched and obtained a senior cap? I think so. He switched around 2012. There hasn't been much precedence or reason to ask Martin about the topic during his tenure. There have been lads switching at underage level but I'm not sure if he's been asked about those or addressed them. There has been no direct impact on his squad anyway. It's actually hard to know how he feels about it. I think this is the most revealing he has ever been on his identity and even here he avoids the fact that he had a choice on who to represent and his views on same: Martin O'Neill on what it means to be Irish http://the42.ie/1089500

[DannyInvincible]

For some reason, I get the impression it's an issue that Martin would rather avoid if at all possible on account of his history with the IFA. He was once NI's captain, of course, and I'm sure he doesn't want to upset old friends. They're a sensitive bunch when they're reminded they can't always get their way any more.

[Olé Olé]

Agreed. That's exactly how it appears to me. In fact, no journalist has posed any question to him on the point. Could there be a gentleman's agreement with the media not to broach that one?

[osarusan]

The bloodline argument seems fairly empty alright. He may feel like it is valid to apply it as some kind of principle in Scannell's particular case, but NI have had no problem in the past casting their net at players with no such link to NI, so there's no consistency.

I'd say my views on the 'taking their players' issue are fairly well known on this site, so I won't go into them again, but as somebody who has expressed sympathy for their situation in the past, comments like this from O'Neill, and other things the IFA do, seriously erode that sympathy.

[punkrocket]

Lots of ill informed stuff on radio Ulster this morning. People who should now better saying that the poor wains get their heads turned early on and once declared for Ireland may never be called up to play and that once this happens it's totally irreversible which I thought happens only after they got a senior competitive cap under their belts. Presenters are not challenging any of this, I'll see if I can post a link.
Commentators also seem to think that O'Neill's use of religion is part of some fiendishly clever strategy, I think it's more likely that he had a few before the interview.

[punkrocket]

The bit we're interested in starts a bit after 9.30
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tgm9k

[Diggs246]

Lots of ill informed stuff on radio Ulster this morning. People who should now better saying that the poor wains get their heads turned early on and once declared for Ireland may never be called up to play and that once this happens it's totally irreversible which I thought happens only after they got a senior competitive cap under their belts. Presenters are not challenging any of this, I'll see if I can post a link.
Commentators also seem to think that O'Neill's use of religion is part of some fiendishly clever strategy, I think it's more likely that he had a few before the interview.

No, a player can only transfer allegiance once. eg. Jack Grealish is no long eligible for the rep of Ireland

[DeLorean]

The bit we're interested in starts a bit after 9.30
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tgm9k

Those two lads were fair enough I thought. Starts at 35:40 by the way and runs for around fifteen minutes.

[DeLorean]

IFA distancing themselves from the comments somewhat - https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/ifa-say-michael-oneill-was-speaking-in-a-personal-capacity-467959.html

[DannyInvincible]

The bit we're interested in starts a bit after 9.30
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tgm9k

The specific segment featuring discussion on O'Neill's comments can also be found here isolated from the rest of the show: https://audioboom.com/posts/6710539-ni-boss-michael-o-neill-accuses-football-association-of-ireland-of-targeting-catholic-players-to-switch-allegiance-to-the-republic-brendanbelfast-and-stevenbeacom5-discuss

Highlights:

i) Their weird pronunciation of Sean Scannell's surname. "Scan-ELLE"? That's surely not how it's pronounced, is it? He's not French, like. It reminds me of Richard "Sadlee-ay".

ii) Presenter: "So, Sean Scannell... He's English?"
Steve Beacom: "Yes, he's injured at the minute."

[IsMiseSean]

The talk of this 'gentleman's agreement' is utter nonsense. I hope the FAI aren't going to be agreeing to something like that.

Also, is there a similar situation like this anywhere else in the world?

[DannyInvincible]

Also, is there a similar situation like this anywhere else in the world?

Muzzy Izzet and Colin Kazim-Richards were eligible to play for Turkey on the basis of their Cypriot heritage because Turkish citizenship law extends extra-territorially over what only Turkey, out of the entire international community, recognises as Northern Cyprus, even though FIFA simultaneously recognises the entire island of Cyprus as the 'de jure' territory of the Cypriot football association. The eligibility of Northern or Turkish Cypriots to play for Turkey is probably the closest thing to an analogy that I've been able to find.

A key difference in our case though is that the island-wide effect of Irish nationality law is multilaterally-agreed (since the GFA) and is, as a result, no longer a matter of diplomatic contention or dispute. It is all agreed, entirely above board and should not be a contentious matter.

[punkrocket]

No, a player can only transfer allegiance once. eg. Jack Grealish is no long eligible for the rep of Ireland

Okay, I thought that the Alex Bruce saga was available to be copied.

[DannyInvincible]

IFA distancing themselves from the comments somewhat - https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/ifa-say-michael-oneill-was-speaking-in-a-personal-capacity-467959.html

Where is Mackey getting this?:


Current regulations, backed by Fifa and copper-fastened by a Court of Arbitration of Sport decision in 2010, allow players on both sides of the border to switch allegiance if they have not been capped at senior level.

:excruciating:

[DannyInvincible]

Just on Paddy McEleney as well, as Michael O'Neill mentioned him in the article, and this whole notion of players being "taken" when they go from IFA to FAI but this not being the case when they move from FAI to IFA... O'Neill had no qualms about meeting up with McEleney at a time when Noel King still had immediate plans for the player (https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/sport/football/mceleney-joins-big-brother-at-ni-1-4385364). In fact, McEleney provisionally agreed with O'Neill to switch from the FAI to the IFA and even had King ringing him up pleading with him not to go.

It eventually transpired that McEleney wasn't prepared to go through with the switch because he was told by an IFA official that he would have to apply for a British passport (or so he claimed anyway), which he didn't want to do, but O'Neill was nevertheless more than ready to open his arms to a player who was in immediate demand by another association.

Of course, O'Neill suggests this is different to the FAI facilitating players who might be in demand by the IFA because McEleney has a "bloodline"... :confused: The purported distinction is simply self-serving fantasy.

[Stuttgart88]

The thing is though, that nobody is prepared to actually take note of the facts or the counter-examples. Michael O’Neill has put this out there, the headlines and the claims have been made and 99% of people with any awareness of the situation will simply think the FAI is poaching players under some kind of loophole and poor old IFA is being hard done by.

[Diggs246]

The thing is though, that nobody is prepared to actually take note of the facts or the counter-examples. Michael O’Neill has put this out there, the headlines and the claims have been made and 99% of people with any awareness of the situation will simply think the FAI is poaching players under some kind of loophole and poor old IFA is being hard done by.

Someone needs to explain to the IFA that , that "loophole" is called the Good Friday agreement

[Stuttgart88]

RTE twitter account reporting from the press conference

MON: I have no problem to have a conversation with Michael O'Neill. Met him at a game recently. Very convivial conversation. Didn't mention this. Wish he had...

MON: I have not taken one senior player from him (Michael O'Neill). Bringing religion into it...you'll have to ask Michael. Very disappointing. It's the player's choice.

[Stuttgart88]

Someone needs to explain to the IFA that , that "loophole" is called the Good Friday agreement
It's not even that, it's our citizenship laws.

[Olé Olé]

RTE twitter account reporting from the press conference

MON: I have no problem to have a conversation with Michael O'Neill. Met him at a game recently. Very convivial conversation. Didn't mention this. Wish he had...

MON: I have not taken one senior player from him (Michael O'Neill). Bringing religion into it...you'll have to ask Michael. Very disappointing. It's the player's choice.
Fair play. Having avoided the subject somehow for so long I think I am happy with Martin's words.

[DeLorean]

Fair play. Having avoided the subject somehow for so long I think I am happy with Martin's words.

Yeah, I think he's done okay too. He has to play the game from both sides to a certain degree to be fair to him. There's a bit more here - https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/obviously-i-have-a-problem-ireland-boss-responds-to-michael-oneills-catholic-jibes-36683690.html


Obviously I have a problem with the unexpected nature of the comments.

I think Michael has admitted this...I haven't even taken a player away from him at senior level. I've no problem having a discussion.

Funnily enough I did meet him at a game quite recently, we were watching Fulham play.

We had a very convivial conversation and he never mentioned these particular points. I wish he had of done. It came as a surprise. I've had a conversation with him since.

He's admitted I've not taken a senior player from him. Quite the opposite. He's taken Alex Bruce during my time here. I've not taken a senior player off him at all.

I've no problem having a discussion about underage level. But to bring religion into it, that's something you'd have to ask Michael about.

I played for Northern Ireland 60 odd times and was captain loads of times, and I think one of the most successful periods where you had Catholics and Protestants playing from both sides of the religious divide.

Those things have to remembered. Very disappointing. I think the most important issue here is that I've never chosen a player on anything other than merit. But two, really really important. It is down to the player. It is the player's choice and that's something I've always abided by.

[Olé Olé]

I think he is clear in that he has played for NI, manages Ireland and thinks the choice is the player's. I think that has to be respected. I don't think the bile spouted by Michael carries much respect towards the options afforded to the players and the subsequent choices made. And that stands for prospective and future cases too.

[Fixer82]

Really surprised that Michael O'Neill said these things.
Happy with Martin's comments. He's matter of fact but slightly bullish as well, which he needs to be.

Also, the Alex Bruce point is a good one. The only player to switch from one to the other at senior level was him.

[backstothewall]

On reflection I think Michael O'Neill has crossed a line here. He has accused Martin and the FAI of sectarianism without a shred of evidence to support that claim. In fact he did just the opposite when he gave the example of Paddy McNair who was approached despite him being protestant.

The fact that only Catholics have declared for us is not evidence of sectarian recruitment on the part of the FAI. It is evidence that if presented with the opportunity Catholics in the north have a preference for the republic that is not shared by their protestant peers.

Michael O'Neill has no idea which of his potential players were approached by the FAI. He has no idea which of the players who declared for us did so after reaching out to the FAI on their own initiative. I would both expect and assume that the FAI don't give a damn which school you went to. Either Michael O'Neill has evidence to the contrary or he owes Martin an apology.

[geysir]

No, a player can only transfer allegiance once. eg. Jack Grealish is no long eligible for the rep of Ireland
Jack still has international options.
He has not yet been tied to the cause of England, he has yet to be capped for them at a competitive level, until that point has been passed he can (in theory) reignite his Irish intl ambitions..

[Olé Olé]

He can't play for us again. He used his one switch to switch to England and represented their under 21s. Door shut. Done.

[geysir]

He can't play for us again. He used his one switch to switch to England and represented their under 21s. Door shut. Done.
It has to be a competitive game. The door is still open.
It is not a switch until he has been capped at a competitive level.

[Closed Account]

https://www.uefa.com/under21/season=2017/matches/round=2000649/match=2016325/index.html

[Closed Account]

Another one we lost to England, played in the catalonian Cup final recently.

[Diggs246]

It has to be a competitive game. The door is still open.
It is not a switch until he has been capped at a competitive level.

Thats a common misconception, but its not correct. A player can only switch association once.

[samhaydenjr]

Marcus McGuane, another one we lost, has made his debut for Barcelona: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0307/945791-former-ireland-u17-player-mcguane-makes-barca-debut/

[Diggs246]

Callum Robinson has declared, good player

[seanfhear]

Callum Robinson has declared, good playerHow many runs did he get ?

[Olé Olé]

Callum Robinson has declared, good player

Interesting.

'I'm available' - Preston star Callum Robinson declares for Ireland http://the42.ie/3893676

[Olé Olé]

Marcus McGuane, another one we lost, has made his debut for Barcelona: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0307/945791-former-ireland-u17-player-mcguane-makes-barca-debut/

McGuane is a disappointing one. From what I can glean, McGuane originally went by the name of is Ghanaian father. He changed it to his mother's name. His mother's parents are from Laois and Cork. In fact, he had a tweet up about his grandmother once and I reckon it was his maternal grandmother. Disappointing she couldn't keep him at bay for us.

[Murph 1]

This is very good news, another option in an area where we are a little short, Callum can play as a winger or up front. The Preston connection also helps and must be seen as a positive influence. Hope MON adds him to the squad for Turkey.

[Olé Olé]

One thing I find interesting is how this declaration has been made. The 42 are carrying it as an exclusive. That would lead me to believe there has been an intermediary between the 42 and the player e.g. an Irish Preston teammate or his agent. Secondly, the timing of it to co-incide with the squad announcement (first thing in the morning directly afterwards) all seems very deliberate.

Not that it's a big issue. I just think it's very obviously orchestrated and what about it.

[liamoo11]

Marcus McGuane, another one we lost, has made his debut for Barcelona: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0307/945791-former-ireland-u17-player-mcguane-makes-barca-debut/

I'm not sure we lost him as such. He came out of nowhere and played in the euros 17 after not been involved in any qualifiers and was a year underage. thea few months later he switches to brits 17s and played in the euros 17s for them. To me it seemed we kinda borrowed him for a tournament where Doyle Hayes from Villa was out injured and he was always going back. Looked a lovely player though

[Mr_Parker]

Good read.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/ewan-mackenna-does-anyone-in-the-bogside-or-falls-road-really-grow-up-dreaming-of-playing-for-northern-ireland-36688874.html

[geysir]

Thats a common misconception, but its not correct. A player can only switch association once.
:)
This has already been discussed in another thread and the question has been concluded to an absolute certainty.
A player is only recognised as 'switched' when he/she is capped in a competitive game at any level by the new association.
FIFA is about the only sporting association to have this, other sport associations generally recognise the player as being switched when they give the permission for the switch.

[Diggs246]

:)
This has already been discussed in another thread and the question has been concluded to an absolute certainty.
A player is only recognised as 'switched' when he/she is capped in a competitive game at any level by the new association.
FIFA is about the only sporting association to have this, other sport associations generally recognise the player as being switched when they give the permission for the switch.

Thats not how i read it to be honest

18 Change of Association
1. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for
several representative teams due to nationality, he may, only once, request to change the Association for which he is
eligible to play international matches to the Association of another country of which he holds nationality

[DannyInvincible]

Good read.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/ewan-mackenna-does-anyone-in-the-bogside-or-falls-road-really-grow-up-dreaming-of-playing-for-northern-ireland-36688874.html

Good piece. Ewan MacKenna always makes a lot of sense, although I think he might have had a read of the piece I put together before he penned his own. He wrote:


""We could get into the two-faced nature of it all....

Or how FIFA, in 2007, even tried to placate the IFA with a special offer allowing them to select those who weren't British nationals but came from Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, only for them to refuse. Of how Gerry Armstrong was brought in by the IFA to identify players who were 'at risk' of switching, meaning something obvious and dangerous.
These were two paragraphs I'd added to mine the other day:


"It is worth remembering that when FIFA did actually make the extraordinary gesture of offering the IFA special treatment in respect of their complaints over the matter of player eligibility back in November of 2007, the IFA rejected the proposal, even though the FAI were prepared to accept it.

The exceptional proposal would have allowed the IFA to select Irish nationals born south of the border who were not British citizens and who had no legal connection to the territory of the IFA. It would have enabled, for example, the association to select individuals from the Ulster-Scots community in the southern border counties of Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan. Many people from this community culturally identify with the Northern Ireland statelet and its football team despite their birth and upbringing on the southern side of the border. Willie Hay, Basil McCrea, Maurice Devenney and Charley McAdam are just a few examples of public figures from this community."

And I'd added this tweet to an update:

971404585893015553

In fairness, I ripped off his WordPress template (https://ewanmackenna.wordpress.com/), so I'll let it slide this time. :p

[DannyInvincible]

:)
This has already been discussed in another thread and the question has been concluded to an absolute certainty.

Has it? On what basis? I thought we were always a bit unsure on this one. Even Yann wasn't totally sure when I asked him. First time, he said he thought that the first competitive cap after a request effected or consummated the switch:


He is also of the opinion that it is probably the first competitive international appearance after a switch that ties a player to his new association and not the request to switch itself. Interestingly, though, he claims that our "test case", Bobby Zamora, never requested a change of association (even though media articles quite clearly state he had a request approved and was all ready to play for Trinidad & Tobago after having played for England competitively at under-age level) as he does not feature on a FIFA database to which Yann has access.

On a later occasion, his view had changed and he said he felt the request being granted was the conclusive element:


I also raised the matter again of what actually effects a switch and he seems to be of the thinking now that it is the granting of the switch request, which would mean Jack Grealish, just to use an example, is now irreversibly tied. Yann's thinking appears to have changed although he didn't speak to the head of the PSC about it unfortunately. This would seem to conform with statements from FAI sources (if I recall correctly) a few months ago stating that once Grealish's switch would be granted, there'd be no going back on it. Indeed, it would also conform with the literal wording of article 8.1 which states that a player "may, only once, request to change the association for which he is eligible to play international matches".

As it happens, Michael O'Neill appeared to think this too judging by his comments earlier in the week where he claimed Daniel Devine can't play for NI again since he "signed an international transfer" to the FAI, even though he hasn't played for the FAI. O'Neill claimed Devine would have been in his Euros squad otherwise, so it sounds like he'd looked into having the switch voided or reversed and was possibly told it wasn't possible.

I'm pretty sure there was a quote as well from a story posted on the forum around the time Grealish was waiting for his request to switch to the FA to be approved where an FAI official said that Grealish would be lost for good as soon as the request was granted. I can't quite put my finger on it right though. Maybe someone else can help?

I did find this RTÉ story whilst I was looking for it though: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2015/1127/749733-grealish-international-transfer-still-on-complete/

It states:


"With no competitive internationals between now and next year’s Euros in France, Grealish won’t technically be tied to England at senior international level before the competition starts.

This means he could still feature for Ireland, though this seems a long-shot given his recent decision."

That conforms with your understanding, although, as we know only too well, we can't always rely on the mainstream media when it comes to seeking clarity on eligibility matters.

[geysir]

Has it? On what basis? I thought we were always a bit unsure on this one. Even Yann wasn't totally sure when I asked him. First time, he said he thought that the first competitive cap after a request effected or consummated the switch:
I thought it had been put to bed, I mean it was proven beyond doubt. Just how much more do you want? 101% proof? :)
Cap Tied (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap-tied)

[Diggs246]

I thought it had been put to bed, I mean it was proven beyond doubt. Just how much more do you want? 101% proof? :)
Cap Tied (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap-tied)

"In the event where a player is eligible to play for multiple nations, he is only 'cap-tied' to a nation after playing for its senior team in an official competition, or having played in an official competition at youth level and later submitting a request to change national association with*FIFA."

[DannyInvincible]

I thought it had been put to bed, I mean it was proven beyond doubt. Just how much more do you want? 101% proof? :)
Cap Tied (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap-tied)

When was it proven beyond doubt? Just 100 per cent proof will suffice. ;)

I'd been searching for some info on Dominic Ball (who represented the IFA at youth level 24 times before switching to the English FA without a hint of outrage or outcry from NI quarters), but came across this article from 2015: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/magilton-warns-emerging-talent-31504042.html

It says the following in respect of another IFA youth player Cameron McGeehan:


"Jim Magilton has warned any player who is considering turning his back on Northern Ireland to be careful not to plunge themselves into the international wilderness.

The Irish FA has invoked the Fifa five-day rule to ban Cameron McGeehan from playing for Luton Town today after he knocked back a call up to Magilton's under-21 squad for today's opening European Championship qualifier.

It is believed that the 20-year-old wants to take his chances with England, similar to Dominic Ball, who has won under-19 and under-20 caps for England, despite playing for Northern Ireland at every level bar full international."

The IFA really do seem to get a thrill out of vindictive attempts to stifle the aspirations of players who might once have played for them before changing their minds. I wonder how often that rule is invoked by associations generally.

For what it's worth, Jim Magilton also said the following about the switch process:


"There is no ambiguity. Once a player makes the decision to switch that's it, there is no going back. It's clear in the FIFA rules."

[Diggs246]

When was it proven beyond doubt? Just 100 per cent proof will suffice. ;)

I'd been searching for some info on Dominic Ball (who represented the IFA at youth level 24 times before switching to the English FA without a hint of outrage or outcry from NI quarters), but came across this article from 2015: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/magilton-warns-emerging-talent-31504042.html

It says the following in respect of another IFA youth player Cameron McGeehan:


"Jim Magilton has warned any player who is considering turning his back on Northern Ireland to be careful not to plunge themselves into the international wilderness.

The Irish FA has invoked the Fifa five-day rule to ban Cameron McGeehan from playing for Luton Town today after he knocked back a call up to Magilton's under-21 squad for today's opening European Championship qualifier.

It is believed that the 20-year-old wants to take his chances with England, similar to Dominic Ball, who has won under-19 and under-20 caps for England, despite playing for Northern Ireland at every level bar full international."

The IFA really do seem to get a thrill out of vindictive attempts to stifle the aspirations of players who might once have played for them before changing their minds. I wonder how often that rule is invoked by associations generally.

For what it's worth, Jim Magilton also said the following about the switch process:


"There is no ambiguity. Once a player makes the decision to switch that's it, there is no going back. It's clear in the FIFA rules."



I thought my last post cleared this up

"having played in an official competition at youth level and later submitting a request to change national association with*FIFA."

Once Jack Grealish applied and changed association, he was gone for us for life

[DannyInvincible]

I thought my last post cleared this up

"having played in an official competition at youth level and later submitting a request to change national association with*FIFA."

Once Jack Grealish applied and changed association, he was gone for us for life

That's just from a Wikipedia article though. Anyone can edit that. Nevertheless, if I had make a call one way or the other on what I thought most likely effected a switch or made it permanent, I would tend to concur with your view that it is the formal granting of the request rather than the first competitive cap for the new association. This interpretation would appear to be in accordance with a literal reading of article 8 and it would also appear to be supported by the opinion of FAI and IFA officials. I can only guess, for example, that Michael O'Neill looked into reversing Daniel Devine's switch but was informed it wouldn't be possible. That may not be the case, of course, but it would just appear likely to me based on his words:


"Daniel Devine of Partick Thistle is a West Belfast boy and would have gone to Euros [2016] with us. Only he can't play for Northern Ireland as he’s signed an international transfer.’"

Isn't geysir saying that it has been proven that it is the first cap for the new association that makes the switch permanent, however?