Potentially eligible players thread

[Olé Olé]

It's hard to make a balanced approach to this issue for the management team because pro-active approaches can be deemed poaching and then you must take into account the variables involved due to each personal circumstance i.e. how motivated is the player to play for Ireland and what is motivating them (career or patriotism/cultural identity).

We're well stocked in terms of wingers, I agree, and these are wingers who have been with us a long time (Pilkington, of course, lined out for an under-21 cap). I've never seen Buckley play to know whether he is better than those at our disposal, but those at our disposal all have PL experience which Buckley doesn't. Should we be pro-actively chasing him? Or should he be more pro-active? He doesn't exactly wrap the tri-colour around himself in those quotes the Herald had in October.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I sincerely don't believe there are many Granny rule players out there that are worthy of a place in the squad, let alone first team.

If it were up to me, I would call up Joe Mason because of the position he plays, his goalscoring record and from what I have seen of him. Apart from that though.....

Samir Carruthers, Jack Grealish and Sean Murray are other players who could play for Ireland in the future but are nowhere near ready for it.

I think people underestimate the pool of talent we currently have. Either way, minnow or no minnow, Adam Hammill, Will Buckley and Luke Chambers aren't going to make a dent in our fortunes.

A Gary Cahill or an Aaron Lennon declaring would be a cause for excitement but in the words of a Beach Boys song, "I'm Waiting For The Day".

[gastric]

I sincerely don't believe there are many Granny rule players out there that are worthy of a place in the squad, let alone first team.

If it were up to me, I would call up Joe Mason because of the position he plays, his goalscoring record and from what I have seen of him. Apart from that though.....

Samir Carruthers, Jack Grealish and Sean Murray are other players who could play for Ireland in the future but are nowhere near ready for it.

I think people underestimate the pool of talent we currently have. Either way, minnow or no minnow, Adam Hammill, Will Buckley and Luke Chambers aren't going to make a dent in our fortunes.

A Gary Cahill or an Aaron Lennon declaring would be a cause for excitement but in the words of a Beach Boys song, "I'm Waiting For The Day".

But the reality is England now realise that they have to be proactive with young players as their player pool continues to diminish in the Premiership, and this has a knock on effect on us, Crowley and Mahoney being examples. I welcome Buckley and if he becomes the next Stephen Hunt, a late developer who gave his all for us, I would be happy with this.

[gastric]

It's hard to make a balanced approach to this issue for the management team because pro-active approaches can be deemed poaching and then you must take into account the variables involved due to each personal circumstance i.e. how motivated is the player to play for Ireland and what is motivating them (career or patriotism/cultural identity).

We're well stocked in terms of wingers, I agree, and these are wingers who have been with us a long time (Pilkington, of course, lined out for an under-21 cap). I've never seen Buckley play to know whether he is better than those at our disposal, but those at our disposal all have PL experience which Buckley doesn't. Should we be pro-actively chasing him? Or should he be more pro-active? He doesn't exactly wrap the tri-colour around himself in those quotes the Herald had in October.

But why do they have to wrap themselves in the tricolour or such like? Clinton Morrison made it clear when he was asked to join us that he was holding out for an England call up. When he realised it wasn't to be, he came on board and while limited in some ways, he was always passionate, committed and a good team player. That is all I ask of players and I wish there were a few Clintons around now who would be happy to come on board.

[Yard of Pace]

But why do they have to wrap themselves in the tricolour or such like? Clinton Morrison made it clear when he was asked to join us that he was holding out for an England call up. When he realised it wasn't to be, he came on board and while limited in some ways, he was always passionate, committed and a good team player. That is all I ask of players and I wish there were a few Clintons around now who would be happy to come on board.

I fully agree.

And Adam Hammill is mentioned above. He'd be close to the squad if he was asked. He's a great talent. Love the lad.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I fully agree.

And Adam Hammill is mentioned above. He'd be close to the squad if he was asked. He's a great talent. Love the lad.

Is this the lad that was at Wolves? I think there are several better options playing in the PL and with PL and International experience alone.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

But why do they have to wrap themselves in the tricolour or such like? Clinton Morrison made it clear when he was asked to join us that he was holding out for an England call up. When he realised it wasn't to be, he came on board and while limited in some ways, he was always passionate, committed and a good team player. That is all I ask of players and I wish there were a few Clintons around now who would be happy to come on board.

Because it devalues International football. It's ridiculous the amount of countries Alex Bruce and Alex Pearce have played for.

[gastric]

Because it devalues International football. It's ridiculous the amount of countries Alex Bruce and Alex Pearce have played for.

How the hell does it devalue international football? Do you really sit there watching Alex Pearce thinking to yourself it's ridiculous that he has represented two countries? Personally, I hope he continues to develop and offer us an alternative to Dunne and O'Shea as their retirement looms. It seems you will only welcome world class footballers who are Irish qualified, when you find them please let us know!

[Razors left peg]

Because it devalues International football. It's ridiculous the amount of countries Alex Bruce and Alex Pearce have played for.

Has International Football be ruined or devalued because Puskas played for Poland and Spain, or Di Stefano playing for Argentina, Columbia and Spain?

We have a small population in this country but a massive Irish Diaspora spread throughout the world which we should be taking advantage of. We dont have a strong enough league to take advantage of the residency rules like some countries so we need to take any advantage while we can. But even the residency rule has not destroyed or devalued International Football. If Spain win the World cup this year no body will be saying its devalued because they had Diego Costa playing for them. If Ireland win the 6 Nations in Rugby this year I wont cheer any less because Richardt Strauss was playing.

Im going to be making a move to the US soon and I would hate to think that if I had kids out there that they would not be able to play international football for Ireland if they were good enough

[geysir]

Has International Football be ruined or devalued because Puskas played for Poland and Spain, or Di Stefano playing for Argentina, Columbia and Spain?
You had me puzzled (not ruined) there for a minute.

[Dodge]

We dont have a strong enough league to take advantage of the residency rules like some countries so we need to take any advantage while we can.

You could always try building the league up...

[Stuttgart88]

I'm being a bit lazy and not going through the previous posts for the context of Dodge and Razor's exchange, but I think it's fair to say that the residency rules do favour those countries with major leagues. Young foreign players are more likely to go to a top English club's academy than a junior club in Ireland or a LOI club's set-up. I don't think it's controversial or disrespectful to say that the LOI isn't as strong as England, Holland, Belgium, Switzerland etc in its ability to attract foreign players of international potential.

I'm not sure what Dodge means by "building the league up": do you mean talking about it more favourably or actually investing in it?

I've heard the FAI has asked the Dept of Foreign Affairs for some leniency in attracting foreign footballers as a means of establishing Ireland as a "stepping stone league" for non-EU footballers, possibly brining money to Irish clubs. It would make sense, and if a young player became Irish-eligble by residency then great. God knows we have suffered enough at the feet of residency-qualified players in the past (Belgium & Switzerland)!

[SkStu]

You could always try building the league up...

you could always do both...

[Stuttgart88]

International football was definitely devalued when Lapira was capped, and not because of his birthplace or ancestry! You could say the same wrt Alan O'Brien, but at least he was quick.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

International football was definitely devalued when Lapira was capped, and not because of his birthplace or ancestry! You could say the same wrt Alan O'Brien, but at least he was quick.

Let us not forget Terry Mancini, Tony Cascarino and Bernie Slaven.

And terrible though he was, Alan O'Brien was actually Irish.

[Stuttgart88]

That's what I was trying to say: even though he was actually Irish O'Brien's selection devalued international football. I'll never forget his first touch in Stuttgart.

Cascarino's mother was 1G Irish. She was the adopted daughter of an Irishman. In most rational people's eyes, and in law, adoption is as good as birth in conveying nationality. He was trying to promote his book when he made a fuss over his alleged non-qualification. He passes my gut test, which is what often passes as the benchmark around here. My local chipper in Rathfarnham was run by his family. Further proof!

[Charlie Darwin]

Jesus, that was the same family? I thought they just really liked him there.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought the same: if you're going to pretend you're Italian you can pick a better name than Cascarino.

But they said they were cousins, though if his Irish mother was O'Malley why would his Irish cousins all be Cascarinos? 25 years later it dawns on me that maybe they were bulsh1tting me.

[paul_oshea]

Someone saying it is no good unless geysir agrees and confirms. :D

[Razors left peg]

You could always try building the league up...

I would but Im kinda busy at the moment :P

Im a big LOI fan Dodge ( Especially now that Galway are back again) and I wish the league was a lot stronger but that is a whole other debate. Personally I would like to see the whole thing scrapped and started again with central contracts and a center of excellence that young players could graduate from every year and get drafted into the league.

[geysir]

Someone saying it is no good unless geysir agrees and confirms. :D
I only get involved on occasion with certified bulsh**ters :)

[geysir]

I thought the same: if you're going to pretend you're Italian you can pick a better name than Cascarino.

But they said they were cousins, though if his Irish mother was O'Malley why would his Irish cousins all be Cascarinos? 25 years later it dawns on me that maybe they were bulsh1tting me.
Wasn't there some story when Ireland were at Italia 90, Cas was saying his cousins by the score were begging him for 1/4 final tickets?
His dad was italian so I guess his dad's relations made over to Ireland.
I think you're okay, the chips you had were bona fide, Cascarino chips.

[Charlie Darwin]

I would but Im kinda busy at the moment :P

Im a big LOI fan Dodge ( Especially now that Galway are back again) and I wish the league was a lot stronger but that is a whole other debate. Personally I would like to see the whole thing scrapped and started again with central contracts and a center of excellence that young players could graduate from every year and get drafted into the league.
Honestly don't see how you can reconcile these two statements.

[Dodge]

I would but Im kinda busy at the moment :P

Im a big LOI fan Dodge ( Especially now that Galway are back again) and I wish the league was a lot stronger but that is a whole other debate. Personally I would like to see the whole thing scrapped and started again with central contracts and a center of excellence that young players could graduate from every year and get drafted into the league.
Central contracts won't work in European football.



I'm not sure what Dodge means by "building the league up": do you mean talking about it more favourably or actually investing in it?


Invest in it.

If you want a league strong enough to attract foreign players, you're going to have to pay for it.


I don't think it's controversial or disrespectful to say that the LOI isn't as strong as England, Holland, Belgium, Switzerland etc in its ability to attract foreign players of international potential.

No one could possibly argue that it's strong enough now.

[Stuttgart88]

That's what I presumed you were saying, thanks.

wrt why central contracts won't work in European football. Is this because it would be illegal or unworkable?

I think an equivalent situation would be "third party ownership" (TPO) where individual "investors" or pools of investors have an economic share in footballers' economic rights (transfer fees and other financial claims). TPO isn't universally illegal as far as I know, rather some leagues such as the EPL require TPO rights to be extinguished if a player signs for a EPL club. But TPO is widespread in other leagues such as Portugal's. There are arguments in its favour but on balance, in my opinion, TPO provides a charter for all kinds of spivs and crooks to have access to football's wealth. UEFA is trying to regulate TPO without fully banning it, as far as I know. On that basis, I think special cases could be made for national associations to own players' registrations.

Beyond this, I think FIFpro is actually making a challenge to the whole legality of the transfer market.

I do think that offering work permits to non-EU players in exchange for a fee could be a useful source of income for LOI clubs, if properly regulated and overseen.

[Razors left peg]

Honestly don't see how you can reconcile these two statements.

Ive been going to Terryland since I was a baby so I do love LOI football because its the highest level of football we can watch in this country on a regular basis. That does not mean that I stick my head in the sand and think that the League is perfect, its far from it. I think radical change is needed if we ever want to have a league that will attract big crowds on a regular basis and league that we can select players to go directly into the national team. There is plenty of talent in the country and I would love for the top young players to have the option to stay here and still get the very best coaching available. Countries as small as ourselves are able to manage it and sell their players to bigger clubs for fees in the millions rather than the pittance that they leave the LOI.

I dont know if central contracts would work but at the moment there is no prospect of a fully professional league flourishing in the country and so change has to me made to improve. If that means scrapping the whole thing and starting again then so be it...... I dont think there is a hope in hell it will happen by the way so for now I just have to be excite that Galway FC are back in the league

[Stuttgart88]

The whole structure of Irish football needs changing: governance, league design, the whole lot. Rip it up, start again. Reboot.

Just look at the SFAI v DDSL standoff at the moment and the alleged financial relationship between FAI and DDSL.

Once we have a more joined up and enlightened superstructure I think the League itself will benefit even in the absence of wholesale League-specific change, though investment would no doubt help. Once this has all happened we can look at what the impact is on the LOI clubs and the League and make changes accordingly. Or rather, simply making cosmetic changes to the League without any other change will have little effect.

[Olé Olé]

Was thinking about what other countries have a strong diaspora in foreign countries and remembered that Marouane Chamakh is French-born and playing for Morocco. It turns out that only 7 of their last 23-man squad were born in Morocco. The rest have been born, primarily, in France and the Netherlands; two countries with excellent structures for cultivating talented young footballers. There's probably a comparison to be drawn there with Ireland's links with England. The whole issue of nurture and nature is also a factor. Oh so many variables really.

Is Nuri Sahin a better Turkish international for being schooled in football in his birthland of Germany? Are Ilkay Gundogan and Mesut Ozil better German internationals due to being trained in their birthland of Germany and/or were they born with the talent that is gushing around their Turkish blood?

[gastric]

Was thinking about what other countries have a strong diaspora in foreign countries and remembered that Marouane Chamakh is French-born and playing for Morocco. It turns out that only 7 of their last 23-man squad were born in Morocco. The rest have been born, primarily, in France and the Netherlands; two countries with excellent structures for cultivating talented young footballers. There's probably a comparison to be drawn there with Ireland's links with England. The whole issue of nurture and nature is also a factor. Oh so many variables really.



Is Nuri Sahin a better Turkish international for being schooled in football in his birthland of Germany? Are Ilkay Gundogan and Mesut Ozil better German internationals due to being trained in their birthland of Germany and/or were they born with the talent that is gushing around their Turkish blood?


Damn fine questions, now please find the bloody answers!

[gastric]

Buckley supposedly on offer at 4 million sterling, seems a bit much tbh!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/sunderland-palace-transfers-buckley-brighton-3077015

[Olé Olé]

Damn fine questions, now please find the bloody answers!

Will Tommie Hoban and Ciaran Clark develop into better centre-halves than Richard Dunne simply because they spent the first 15 years of their lives in England while Richard didn't (bearing in mind they are all genetically 100%)?

[paul_oshea]

I only get involved on occasion with certified bulsh**ters :)

Touché.

Says the man who uses a couple of comments in an article written 6 or 7 years ago, against someone who basis his on speaking with someone who has lived their all his life(born and bred) and generations of his family too. And then has the audacity to make this statement! :D

I see sligo are buiilding some new facilities seems in tough times given their current form over the last few years they have found it easy enough to get sponsorship( im aware of their grants also) to do all this work, pretty strong model give the current financial climate. It amazes me in one sense a town with a population of 40k or so can manage this. If it works for them then why cant the model be reproduced across the country?*

*Granted i have no idea how the day to day running of the clubs or the fundamentals/financials are handled. But from raising cash for infrastructural or long term project, the model seems second to none.

[geysir]

Touché.

Says the man who uses a couple of comments in an article written 6 or 7 years ago, against someone who basis his on speaking with someone who has lived their all his life(born and bred) and generations of his family too. And then has the audacity to make this statement! :D
Yes Paul, you still can't accept that you and your mate didn't know the Rooney's local pub was the Western in Croxteth and that you were spouting speculative bull on that matter.
I am not aware of an article from years ago. The Rooney's local pub and Wayne Rooney's connection to that particular area and pub in Croxteth, has been highlighted many times in mainstream english media. It's common knowledge.
Grow up and move on.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Will Tommie Hoban and Ciaran Clark develop into better centre-halves than Richard Dunne simply because they spent the first 15 years of their lives in England while Richard didn't (bearing in mind they are all genetically 100%)?

Turkey - Hamit Altintop, Nuri Sahin
Germany - Miroslav Klose, Lukas Podolski
Spain - Marcos Senna, Diego Costa
Portugal - Deco
France - Patrick Vieira
Ireland - erm Paul Green, Simon Cox

[Stuttgart88]

Sorry, what point are you making?

[Dunners]

rubbish as usual

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

rubbish as usual

Just a harsh truth. Whatever my opinions about the integrity of it, there was a time when the Granny rule would benefit Ireland. Right now, I don't see many granny rule players that are better than Irish born players; McGeady and McCarthy being the obvious exceptions and their motivations for declaring for Ireland are entirely different to the motivations of people like Paul Green.

Someone like Marcos Senna on the other hand was pivotal in Spain's transition into the best team in the world and Owen Hargreaves was arguably England's best player at the 2006 World Cup.

And no need for that imo.

* I think it would be a lot better if they changed the eligibility rules so that players can only qualify for a country through parentage. Grandparentage shouldn't be enough in my opinion, nor should residence.

And I am aware McCarthy and McGeady are eligible through Grandparents but I stand by that. If two Irish born players of their potential declared for Scotland, imagine how royally p*ssed off we'd all be, eh?

[Charlie Darwin]

there was a time when the Granny rule would benefit Ireland. Right now, I don't see many granny rule players that are better than Irish born players;
Surely that's a good thing? I would challenge you on there ever being a time when the granny rule players were better than Irish-born players. At best, guys like Mick McCarthy and Andy Townsend were as good as the native-born/raised players like McGrath and Moran. Realistically now, you're not going to be getting guys in their mid-20s declaring for us who can go on to be really good internationals, due to a combination of the rules tightening and more players getting England caps at a younger age. So the granny rule will in future be more of a supplemental thing than the dominant feature of the team.

[Stuttgart88]

Towk, so why not mention McCarthy and McGeady in post 584 above instead of Green and Cox?

I'd contend that you exhibit a habit of using bad examples to make a point when there are equally good examples that undermine your point. A habit, mind, not every time. You do actually make a fair bit of sense in among the stubborn silly stuff that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

[peadar1987]

Just a harsh truth. Whatever my opinions about the integrity of it, there was a time when the Granny rule would benefit Ireland. Right now, I don't see many granny rule players that are better than Irish born players; McGeady and McCarthy being the obvious exceptions and their motivations for declaring for Ireland are entirely different to the motivations of people like Paul Green.

Someone like Marcos Senna on the other hand was pivotal in Spain's transition into the best team in the world and Owen Hargreaves was arguably England's best player at the 2006 World Cup.

And no need for that imo.

* I think it would be a lot better if they changed the eligibility rules so that players can only qualify for a country through parentage. Grandparentage shouldn't be enough in my opinion, nor should residence.

And I am aware McCarthy and McGeady are eligible through Grandparents but I stand by that. If two Irish born players of their potential declared for Scotland, imagine how royally p*ssed off we'd all be, eh?

I'd be ****ed off, but it'd be their right.

Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. Are you of mixed heritage? Because if not, then who are you to dictate to people which country they should and shouldn't identify with?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I'd be ****ed off, but it'd be their right.

Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. Are you of mixed heritage? Because if not, then who are you to dictate to people which country they should and shouldn't identify with?

The majority of players that declare for Ireland are doing so out of financial reasons and sporting reasons not sentimental reasons. Diego Costa declaring for Spain and Eduardo declaring for Croatia is also disgraceful for different reasons but at least these countries are getting world class players.

[BonnieShels]

I'd be ****ed off, but it'd be their right.

Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. Are you of mixed heritage? Because if not, then who are you to dictate to people which country they should and shouldn't identify with?

You don't even need to be of mixed heritage to see this for what it is Peadar.
TOWK is talking through his hoop.



The majority of players that declare for Ireland are doing so out of financial reasons and sporting reasons not sentimental reasons. Diego Costa declaring for Spain and Eduardo declaring for Croatia is also disgraceful for different reasons but at least these countries are getting world class players.

WHAT THE F**K are you spouting on about here?

I dare you to go and say that to Mick McCarthy or Kevin Kilbane. Or Stutts or Peadar or Tricky or anyone else who are or are related to "mixed" heritage people.

To suggest that James McCarthy's or Aiden McGeady's reasons for declaring for Ireland are none other than because they want to or because they are Irish is beyond me.

You wonder why people are annoyed at you and then you go on talk such waffle. I'm starting to just accept you are trolling.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

You don't even need to be of mixed heritage to see this for what it is Peadar.
TOWK is talking through his hoop.




WHAT THE F**K are you spouting on about here?

I dare you to go and say that to Mick McCarthy or Kevin Kilbane. Or Stutts or Peadar or Tricky or anyone else who are or are related to "mixed" heritage people.

To suggest that James McCarthy's or Aiden McGeady's reasons for declaring for Ireland are none other than because they want to or because they are Irish is beyond me.

You wonder why people are annoyed at you and then you go on talk such waffle. I'm starting to just accept you are trolling.

Firstly, I categorically stated that James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady's reasons for declaring for Ireland are entirely different to most of the people who declare but you choose to blatantly ignore this and make a bunch of baseless accusations.

Secondly, I said that eligibility rules should be restricted to parentage.

Thirdly, I said that the majority - not all - of granny rule players don't play for sentimental reasons. It is absolutely naive to think otherwise.

Seriously, if you are going to make such accusations - fine - but could you at least read all of what I'm saying.

If the eligibility rules were changed to parentage instead of grandparentage, I think it would lead to a lot less ambiguity such as players playing for multiple countries at underage level and even senior level.

[BonnieShels]

1. You did indeed state that about McCarthy and McGeady but what you said is undermined by you saying that the rule should be changed to parentage only which would rule out McGeady and McCarthy.

2. Why should they be limited to parentage? The grandparent rule is not being abused as it stands to the extent you think it is and in fact it is the residency requirement rule that is blatantly of issue with you. Getting into discussions about eligibility is unwise on foot.ie unless you are really sure about what you're getting at. I wasn't being smart on the Eligibility Thread (http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1729408&viewfull=1#post1729408) when you joined here. I genuinely think you need to brush up on your understanding of how the rules work pertaining to Irish players and those of other countries.

3. Who are you to say the majority don't play for sentimental reasons and who are you to decide what is a right and wrong reason?
Of course for every Kilbane (parentage) there is a Townsend and god knows I would prefer if playing for Ireland was their priority but if they play with distinction (Lawrence, Green, Aldridge, Townsend) then their motives are irrelevant to me.

4. The ambiguity you have concerns with has bugger all to do with the rule re grandparentage.

[gastric]

TOWK, Such is your obsession with players' background, do you actually enjoy watching Ireland or do you just like the players who meet your myopic definition of eligibility? I don't believe I have ever watched a player not give their all for Ireland even if their ability could be questioned. The FAI also work within the FIFA rules, so just get over yourself!

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

1. You did indeed state that about McCarthy and McGeady but what you said is undermined by you saying that the rule should be changed to parentage only which would rule out McGeady and McCarthy.

2. Why should they be limited to parentage? The grandparent rule is not being abused as it stands to the extent you think it is and in fact it is the residency requirement rule that is blatantly of issue with you. Getting into discussions about eligibility is unwise on foot.ie unless you are really sure about what you're getting at. I wasn't being smart on the Eligibility Thread (http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1729408&viewfull=1#post1729408) when you joined here. I genuinely think you need to brush up on your understanding of how the rules work pertaining to Irish players and those of other countries.

3. Who are you to say the majority don't play for sentimental reasons and who are you to decide what is a right and wrong reason?
Of course for every Kilbane (parentage) there is a Townsend and god knows I would prefer if playing for Ireland was their priority but if they play with distinction (Lawrence, Green, Aldridge, Townsend) then their motives are irrelevant to me.

4. The ambiguity you have concerns with has bugger all to do with the rule re grandparentage.

Not being myopic and looking at it from a Scottish perspective, I can fully understand their frustrations about McCarthy and McGeady playing for Ireland. Conor Clifford is of Scottish descent. If he declared for Scotland whilst at Chelsea, Irish fans would be going apes***.

I understand I may need to research eligibility further. Point taken. My stance still hasn't changed though. Too many underage Irish players declaring for England (Keane's, Bamford) and vice versa. The circumstances towards jumping ship usually being vastly different. Keane's and Bamford are on the books at Man Utd and Chelsea where on the flipside, the underage England caps who declare for Ireland usually declare for us after the England ship has sailed. Even the much vaunted, Jack Grealish is hemming and hawing over what country he plays for.

Kevin Kilbane is one of the exceptions and of course he had Irish parentage - which I believe is the line at where eligibility should end. You mention Paul Green. The lad didn't even know he was eligible until his Grandfather told him. It's just a bit strange to me. He doesn't know/Grandad doesn't know he's Irish?? Anyways, eligibility isn't up to me and as you say, ultimately, if they play for the shirt, that's all that matters.

There would be a lot less ambiguity if playing International football was limited to players with parentage. Using the Jack Grealish example again, the lad doesn't come across as if he would be upset if he had to play for England.

It's football at the end of the day. Just because Wayne Rooney plays for England doesn't mean he isn't proud of his Irish roots. There are players (Rooney, Scholes) who are more in touch with their roots than players like (Townsend, Green).

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

TOWK, Such is your obsession with players' background, do you actually enjoy watching Ireland or do you just like the players who meet your myopic definition of eligibility? I don't believe I have ever watched a player not give their all for Ireland even if their ability could be questioned. The FAI also work within the FIFA rules, so just get over yourself!

I don't make the rules so I just accept it. Never rated Kevin Kilbane as a player but as a man, he is a legend. St Ledger wears his heart on his sleeve and has scored some memorable goals (a couple should have meant a lot more). Lawrence, I thought was a decent player.

I support all the players in the green shirt. That doesn't change my beliefs though. The national team takes precedence over everything else!

[BonnieShels]

Not being myopic and looking at it from a Scottish perspective, I can fully understand their frustrations about McCarthy and McGeady playing for Ireland. Conor Clifford is of Scottish descent. If he declared for Scotland whilst at Chelsea, Irish fans would be going apes***.


I honestly don't give a crap about what Scottish fans think about it. Likewise I'm sure they don't give a crap about what we thought when Darren Fletcher decided to play for Scotland.



I understand I may need to research eligibility further. Point taken. My stance still hasn't changed though. Too many underage Irish players declaring for England (Keane's, Bamford) and vice versa.

Too many?

The Keanes declaring for England is their prerogative. I don't like it. But if they don't want to play for Ireland as priority then so be it.
If England doesn't work out and they decide to play for us and are called up and play with distinction then who are we to criticise.

Their Englishness does not dilute their Irishness and you have no right to decide how anyone feels or how their Irishness is manifested.



The circumstances towards jumping ship usually being vastly different. Keane's and Bamford are on the books at Man Utd and Chelsea where on the flipside, the underage England caps who declare for Ireland usually declare for us after the England ship has sailed. Even the much vaunted, Jack Grealish is hemming and hawing over what country he plays for.

Again, if they decide they don't want to play for us, then fine. No point crying over it.


Kevin Kilbane is one of the exceptions and of course he had Irish parentage - which I believe is the line at where eligibility should end. You mention Paul Green. The lad didn't even know he was eligible until his Grandfather told him. It's just a bit strange to me. He doesn't know/Grandad doesn't know he's Irish?? Anyways, eligibility isn't up to me and as you say, ultimately, if they play for the shirt, that's all that matters.

The lad didn't know possibly because eligibility is a complicated business. I mean, Martin O'Neill, Jim Magilton and Kevin Keegan were all eligible but they didn't know.


There would be a lot less ambiguity if playing International football was limited to players with parentage. Using the Jack Grealish example again, the lad doesn't come across as if he would be upset if he had to play for England.

The ambiguity does not exist. The rules are very clear.


It's football at the end of the day. Just because Wayne Rooney plays for England doesn't mean he isn't proud of his Irish roots. There are players (Rooney, Scholes) who are more in touch with their roots than players like (Townsend, Green).

I don't think this makes any sense in the context of what you've said previously.

[BonnieShels]

I don't make the rules so I just accept it. Never rated Kevin Kilbane as a player but as a man, he is a legend. St Ledger wears his heart on his sleeve and has scored some memorable goals (a couple should have meant a lot more). Lawrence, I thought was a decent player.

I support all the players in the green shirt. That doesn't change my beliefs though. The national team takes precedence over everything else!

You clearly don't accept it.

[Stuttgart88]

Paul Green may not have known he was eligible but he did know his grandfather was Irish. I think there's a difference.