Potentially eligible players thread

[EalingGreen]

Those rugby examples were all back when the rule was three years residency. It was increased to five years to stop that happening and the change seems to have worked.The way things are going, I predict that extending the requirement from 3 years to 5 will have no real effect on the incentive for players to switch to their "new" country, since if eg you're a Georgian amateur who is being offered a professional contract in England or France, for financial reasons you'll want to play there as long as you possibly can. The fact of giving up another two years playing for a country which never does anything in world rugby anyway won't cost them to lose too much sleep, I shouldn't think.

While for the big countries who do stand to benefit from such players, it just means that they will try to recruit and get them a work permit as a 20 y.o. rather than a 22 y.o., in recognition of the fact they were never certain to be regularly good enough for their "new" country until they were 25+ anyhow. While his new domestic club gets the benefit of his services earlier than ever.

Which for new country/club/player/old country is Win/Win/Win/Lose.

Or Cynical/Shabby/Understandable/Sickening.

[tetsujin1979]

The big difference between three and five years is that, if you do decide to switch nationality, you're not going to play in the next world cup, either for your current country or the new one.

Given that international rugby careers are about 12 years, with a few exceptions like Sexton or Healy, that'll mean you only appear at one tournament, and that's if you get selected

For example, say the IRFU decide to offer Georgian winger Davit Niniashvili (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davit_Niniashvili)* a contract to play for Connacht. He's 22 now, and won't be eligible to play for Ireland until January 2030, when he'll be 27, and won't be able to play in the World Cup until the 2031 tournament, when he'll be 29(his birthday is in July, so he'll be 29 for the tournament in September), and he's unlikely to play at the 2025 tournament at 33. Is it really worth it, for both the player and the union?

*I looked up the Georgian squad on wikipedia, and picked someone with the right age profile - I can barely name the Irish starting XV, nevermind other countries

[EalingGreen]

The big difference between three and five years is that, if you do decide to switch nationality, you're not going to play in the next world cup, either for your current country or the new one.

Given that international rugby careers are about 12 years, with a few exceptions like sexton or Healy, that'll mean you only appear at one tournament, and that's if you get selectedMaybe so. But the benefit of moving from, say, Fiji or Namibia, to a f-t contract in Europe or Australasia are still too good for the player to turn down, even if it may mean he gets one opportunity fewer for a World Cup. While certain up-and-coming countries like USA and Japan may still pick them up instead.

And if 5 years is less attractive to the top tier countries, they can still live with that, esp if the player is being paid by a club, rather than being centrally contracted. I suspect the real barrier is getting work permits for a player in his new country, which isn't really connected to the 3 or 5 year rule.

[tetsujin1979]

It'll be up to the player what means more to them - the contract or international rugby. Also, the relevant union will have be willing to pay a player that contract for five years before they can play for the union itself. It's a big risk for both parties.

[Eirambler]

I think almost all players that qualify through the new five year version of that rule will have been recruited to play at club level rather than as potential future internationals. Certainly there may be some that go on to play at international level for their new country, but that has happened many times in football as well. It's different to the old three year rule where players were explicitly recruited by the unions with future international potential in mind.

[Fixer82]

Those rugby examples were all back when the rule was three years residency. It was increased to five years to stop that happening and the change seems to have worked.

The change hasn't worked. It just means players will be signed younger. England have moved whole families over from Pacific Islands to facilitate this.

I've no problem if a kid comes through the rugby system here and plays for us. But my ultimate problem with it all is the cynicism of it and the fact that it only favours the rich rugby nations, of which we are certainly one!

[Eirambler]

Sonny Perkins, whose dad played for Ireland, has signed on a permanent deal for League 1 Leyton Orient from Leeds. He had been there on loan. Not 100% clear whether he's Ireland eligible or not, would depend how his dad qualified, but might be an option for the next Under 21 campaign if he is. Played for England up to Under 19, but probably won't get a look in with their 21s from League 1. He's a winger/forward.

[Eirambler]

Could be a three way battle between ourselves, the north and the Brits for this lad!
1889022311380160938

[seanfhear]

Could be a three way battle between ourselves, the north and the Brits for this lad!
1889022311380160938Great name ~ Not Jesse London-Derry Boy anyway !

[Olé Olé]

There's a midfield injury crisis at Manchester United with Mainoo, Ugarte and Collyer missing at least for today's game, on top of Amad Diallo.

It might be mentioned elsewhere but Jack Moorhouse is in the squad and has been training with the first team. He trained with us in 2023 but has been frequently injured since. This seems to be his first proper season so he hasn't really been fit or featuring for another call up.

I don't know the Irish connection and how strong it is. Featuring for MUFC draws England FA focus if it comes to pass.

Interestingly, I read a report on United's youth cup game during the week against Chelsea. Jacob Devaney was midfield and captain and apparently had a very good game. He isn't 18 until June so fits nicely with our 19s for now but will be interesting to see if he can push on.

[Eirambler]

According to balls.ie (I know) Louie Barry has completed the paperwork to switch to Ireland. After banging them in for Stockport in League 1 he's had a more muted start to life in the Championship with Hull. He's also now overage for our Under 21s.

In a further caveat the same article picks out Marcus McGuane as a potential future switcher to Ireland, even though I'm 99.9999% certain he's ineligible to play for us as he has already undertaken a formal switch (from Ireland to England some years ago).

[pineapple stu]

He's actually left Hull - returning back to Villa due to an injury picked up at the weekend (https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/c2417m2lpe0o).

[elatedscum]

According to balls.ie (I know) Louie Barry has completed the paperwork to switch to Ireland. After banging them in for Stockport in League 1 he's had a more muted start to life in the Championship with Hull. He's also now overage for our Under 21s.

In a further caveat the same article picks out Marcus McGuane as a potential future switcher to Ireland, even though I'm 99.9999% certain he's ineligible to play for us as he has already undertaken a formal switch (from Ireland to England some years ago).

nothing on the portal yet. https://knowledge.fifa.com/change-of-association-platform

i remember Louie describing (on instagram) playing for his grandfather for the u16s (i think in his grandfather's hometown in kerry) as the proudest moment of his life and giving him his irish jersey after it (think it was his grandfather's birthday). his grandfather died a few years after that. then posted something then about 'maybe one day he'll look down on me wearing an irish shirt' or something like that.

great to hear he's changed if true. a really good footballer. no idea how good he'll end up being but he still has a chance to be an excellent player

[Olé Olé]

www.balls.ie/football/five-irish-eligble-players-that-could-represent-ireland-in-2025-623523

This is the article. Writer seems to think Louie Barry and Jack Moorhouse are processing paperwork to play for Ireland.

[elatedscum]

www.balls.ie/football/five-irish-eligble-players-that-could-represent-ireland-in-2025-623523 (http://www.balls.ie/football/five-irish-eligble-players-that-could-represent-ireland-in-2025-623523)

This is the article. Writer seems to think Louie Barry and Jack Moorhouse are processing paperwork to play for Ireland.

They'd obviously be quite different. Moorhouse would just need to sort a passport, which can be easy or hard depending on his situation. Louie Barry would need to go through an association switch, which can take between three weeks and six months under normal circumstances, where the FA are playing ball. I think it took Michael Duffy two and and a half years or something (checked: August 2018-February 2021), because the IFA just refused to handle their end of it until FIFA forced them to.

[Eirambler]

Would Barry's situation not be exactly the same as Moorhouse's, since he has never actually played a competitive game at any age level for England? He has somehow managed to play over 20 times for them without ever playing a competitive game - COVID will have contributed there I suspect.

[liamoo11]

Would Barry's situation not be exactly the same as Moorhouse's, since he has never actually played a competitive game at any age level for England? He has somehow managed to play over 20 times for them without ever playing a competitive game - COVID will have contributed there I suspect.

That's unreal great spot.

[tetsujin1979]

According to balls.ie (I know) Louie Barry has completed the paperwork to switch to Ireland. After banging them in for Stockport in League 1 he's had a more muted start to life in the Championship with Hull. He's also now overage for our Under 21s.

In a further caveat the same article picks out Marcus McGuane as a potential future switcher to Ireland, even though I'm 99.9999% certain he's ineligible to play for us as he has already undertaken a formal switch (from Ireland to England some years ago).
McGuane has definitely played competitive internationals for Ireland and England at underage level

[SkStu]

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/14507806/ireland-paul-nebel-germany-heimir-hallgrimsson/

They have quotes in a separate article. Nebel leaves it very open.

Scores for Mainz away to Moenchengladbach tonight. Think that’s 8 goals in the season for him.

[Razors left peg]

Jacob Slater was on bench for Brighton today. Eire Guide saying he is Irish u21 but must say that passed me by.

[tetsujin1979]

Jacob Slater was on bench for Brighton today. Eire Guide saying he is Irish u21 but must say that passed me by.
Played for the U21s against Sweden at the end of last year
https://www.fai.ie/latest/report-ireland-u21-3-2-sweden-u21/

[Olé Olé]

Anyone hear Wayne Rooney on Stick to Football this week?

They were discussing Ireland and England in context of Paddy's weekend.

Rooney was saying he likes certain Irish things (music, food, drink) and I believe it was Neville asked did he qualify for Ireland.

Rooney said he did and Mick McCarthy approached him to play for us through Lee Carsley. He said that he entertained the conversation. But then he realised it was for an under 21 call up. He said that if it had been a senior call up he would probably have taken it..........
He said he got an England call up soon after and went that way.

[John83]

Jaysus. We were that close to having to rationalise the incident with the granny of negotiable affections.

[Eirambler]

Jaysus. We were that close to having to rationalise the incident with the granny of negotiable affections.

A different kind of granny rule...I wonder was she Irish eligible?!

[seanfhear]

Anyone hear Wayne Rooney on Stick to Football this week?

They were discussing Ireland and England in context of Paddy's weekend.

Rooney was saying he likes certain Irish things (music, food, drink) and I believe it was Neville asked did he qualify for Ireland.

Rooney said he did and Mick McCarthy approached him to play for us through Lee Carsley. He said that he entertained the conversation. But then he realised it was for an under 21 call up. He said that if it had been a senior call up he would probably have taken it..........
He said he got an England call up soon after and went that way.Talk is cheap ~ I have my doubts that Rooney would ever have played for Ireland.

[Eirambler]

I do remember a story in the early 2000s that the north enquired about him and were laughed out of it. I don't think it's ever been confirmed that he even qualified for Ireland though.

[Eirambler]

Had a dig around on Google and found this:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arid-30087900.html

[seanfhear]

I do remember a story in the early 2000s that the north enquired about him and were laughed out of it. I don't think it's ever been confirmed that he even qualified for Ireland though.I don't think that even in Rooney's time, that England would let a prospect, that was supposed as good as that, slip through their fingers !

[tetsujin1979]

I've posted here before that I'm convinced I read that the FAI approached Everton to speak to Rooney.

[Olé Olé]

I've posted here before that I'm convinced I read that the FAI approached Everton to speak to Rooney.

He said himself it was through Lee Carsley.

As I said, he was open to listening and when it was just under 21 he said no. If it was senior, he said he would have accepted.

No idea how true this all is. Just repeating what he openly said on an ostensibly English podcast.

[Olé Olé]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/i-was-close-to-doing-it-wayne-rooney-reveals-how-he-almost-declared-for-ireland/a663943805.html

Speaking on the Stick to Football podcast, Rooney was asked if he could have played for another country.
“Mine would be Ireland, it would’ve been great,” he said.
“Mick (McCarthy) phoned me up because he spoke to Lee Carsley. I was close to doing it, but then they called me up for Ireland U21s, and I said I’m not playing for the 21s. I play for England U21s.
“So it never happened and then I went to play for England.”
Arsenal legend Ian Wright asked Rooney would he have accepted a senior call-up, to which he replied “yes.”

[Thewhitepele]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/i-was-close-to-doing-it-wayne-rooney-reveals-how-he-almost-declared-for-ireland/a663943805.html

Speaking on the Stick to Football podcast, Rooney was asked if he could have played for another country.
“Mine would be Ireland, it would’ve been great,” he said.
“Mick (McCarthy) phoned me up because he spoke to Lee Carsley. I was close to doing it, but then they called me up for Ireland U21s, and I said I’m not playing for the 21s. I play for England U21s.
“So it never happened and then I went to play for England.”
Arsenal legend Ian Wright asked Rooney would he have accepted a senior call-up, to which he replied “yes.”

I am not buying what he is selling...

[~YTM~]

I am not buying what he is selling...

Not when he came out before when the whole Grealish thing was going on saying Grealish should play for the country of his birth.

That Lee Carsley had approached him in 2001 and he said no because he's English through and through.

“I’ve never thought about playing for Ireland,” said Rooney, who will win his 104th England cap in Sunday’s friendly against the Republic of Ireland. “I was born in England, I’m English. When I was at Everton [in 2001] Lee Carsley asked me about it on behalf of Mick McCarthy but it never crossed my mind. I have Irish grandparents, so if they wanted to play for Ireland I’m sure they could have, but it was never something I thought about.

“I am English through and through and I have no issue with trying to beat Ireland. I am playing for England and I want to help England win.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jun/06/wayne-rooney-jack-grealish-england-ireland

[seanfhear]

They have to talk about something on these podcasts ~ ~ Loads of it just bull-**** ~ ~ Filling podcast time with bull-****.

[tetsujin1979]

Then don't listen to it

[seanfhear]

Sure if I wasn't to comment on anything that wasn't bull-sh*t there wouldn't be much to comment on !

A lot of life is just a hill of bull-sh*t, and I am as entitled as the next bull-sh*tter to contribute to it !

[Eirambler]

Dennis Cirkin has been named in the England Under 21 squad. It's just friendlies so it doesn't really mean anything, but if he plays for England at the Euros this summer he would then have to formally switch association to represent Ireland in the future (as things stand he could just turn up and play for us as an Irish born player).

Probably also worth noting that, although certain sections of the media who don't understand the eligibility rules, particularly social media, may say that playing for England Under 21s after his 21st birthday ties him to England, this is not actually the case. As he was born in Ireland and is entitled to Irish citizenship from birth he can switch to Ireland at any time up until he wins a competitive senior cap for England or another country (likely Latvia in Cirkin's case).

[Razors left peg]

Cirkin is 23 in April, bit odd that he still qualifies... I understand why he does, but it's still odd

[tetsujin1979]

Cirkin is 23 in April, bit odd that he still qualifies... I understand why he does, but it's still odd
There was quite a few players aged 23 in the 2023 Under 21 Championship squads
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_UEFA_European_Under-21_Championship_squads

[Razors left peg]

There was quite a few players aged 23 in the 2023 Under 21 Championship squads
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_UEFA_European_Under-21_Championship_squads

Doesnt make it less odd :)

[seanfhear]

There was quite a few players aged 23 in the 2023 Under 21 Championship squads
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_UEFA_European_Under-21_Championship_squads
I remember a time when squads a were allowed an over-age player ( maybe even two ) ~ ~ That was a long time ago ~ ~ I didn't realise that you could still do it these days.

[Razors left peg]

I remember a time when squads a were allowed an over-age player ( maybe even two ) ~ ~ That was a long time ago ~ ~ I didn't realise that you could still do it these days.

Its about being underage when the qualifiers start. I guess its to allow continuity of squads through a full phase, but I dont like it. 23 year old competing in an u21 competition is just stupid IMO

[EalingGreen]

I remember a time when squads a were allowed an over-age player ( maybe even two ) ~ ~ That was a long time ago ~ ~ I didn't realise that you could still do it these days.You still can't do it.

With the likes of Cirkin, playing for the U-21's whilst actually 22, it's a case of being inside the cut-off at the time the latest 2 year tournament cycle commenced. So that you could have someone born just a day before the 2023 cut-off, but still playing in eg the Finals in 2025, having already just turned 23 year old.

[seanfhear]

You still can't do it.

With the likes of Cirkin, playing for the U-21's whilst actually 22, it's a case of being inside the cut-off at the time the latest 2 year tournament cycle commenced. So that you could have someone born just a day before the 2023 cut-off, but still playing in eg the Finals in 2025, having already just turned 23 year old.If I remember correctly you were allowed an over-age player or two ~ Maybe even senior pros ~ I suppose the idea was to add some maturity to squads ~ I am talking about 30 years and maybe even more ago, mind !

[SkStu]

If I remember correctly you were allowed an over-age player or two ~ Maybe even senior pros ~ I suppose the idea was to add some maturity to squads ~ I am talking about 30 years and maybe even more ago, mind !

Are you thinking of the Olympics where you field U23's or something and were allowed 2 or 3 players over that age?

[seanfhear]

Are you thinking of the Olympics where you field U23's or something and were allowed 2 or 3 players over that age?Yeah maybe~ ~ But I do think it was a thing years ago ~ A long time ago.

[SkStu]

I just looked up the Olympics rules - was applied in 1992 with the overage allowance introduced in 1996. About 30 years ago. Would this not be it or do you have examples for U21?

[SkStu]

In my desire to help you out Old Man, I came across this excellent article (a bit dated) which compares Ireland performance at U21 compared to other nations from a few different perspectives - but it also contained this relevant nugget... I cant find anything else online but the way it is written in the quote below implies that you were able to do it in the 1988 U21 campaign - and possibly only that campaign...?

https://futsalfinn.wordpress.com/2019/02/26/under-21s-how-ireland-really-compares-with-europes-best-nations/


Some items to note from this squad: (1) it included twins Patrick and Eamonn Dolan. While the old Rothman’s Yearbook listed them as born in Hammersmith, Patrick has always insisted they were born in Galway. Without calling Interpol in to investigate, we’ll take him at his word so that is one asterisk! (2) Gerry Daly was included in one game as an overage player, which teams were allowed do in that campaign. His 48 senior caps also skews the caps average of that squad.

[Eirambler]

It would be more consistent with the other age groups if they called it an Under 23 competition. Under 17s and Under 19s are for players that turn 17 and 19 the year the finals take place, Under 21s is the outlier as it's based on the year the qualifiers start.

[tetsujin1979]

Qualification for the U21 tournament takes much longer. Qualification for the U17 and U19 tournaments starts less then a year before the tournament, for the U21 tournament, qualification starts nearly two years before it kicks off