View Full Version : Potentially eligible players thread
TrapAPony
03/03/2018, 11:06 AM
We’d have to get someone that doesn’t mind feeling dirty . He knows he is qualified . If he wants to all he has to do is let the right people know he is interested . One has to have some self respect .
In any case, we have never convinced any former England U21 player to play for us so it seems it's a no no in any case.
Olé Olé
03/03/2018, 4:41 PM
It's a tricky one. He never ruled us out. But a few barren years and now very average championship scoring record and we are talking about him claiming. Is that making him think about claiming? At the moment it appears to me like his stock would have to fall another bit for him to claim for us. Hard to know how I would feel about it. His England dream is quite remote now so why hasn't he claimed. How much more remote must it get?
tetsujin1979
03/03/2018, 5:01 PM
In any case, we have never convinced any former England U21 player to play for us so it seems it's a no no in any case.
I thought Jon Macken had played U21 for England, but according to wikipedia he only played at U20 level
DannyInvincible
03/03/2018, 9:51 PM
Paddy McEleney scored on his Oldham debut today away to Scunthorpe. Oldham won 2-0 with Eoin Doyle scoring the second.
Wangball
04/03/2018, 12:19 PM
This is an odd one - Son of Pierce, and nephew of David O'Leary - Ryan (O'Leary) Pierce formerly of Aberdeen and Kilmarknock is now starring in a Canadian Soccer Drama called 21 Thunder. If he ever wins an Oscar can we claim him like the Brits claim all of our actors?!!
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm8507926/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6145878/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1
Mr_Parker
04/03/2018, 10:26 PM
Arsehole talk
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/football/northern-irish-boss-claims-fai-use-‘sectarian’-tactics/ar-BBJQyR5?ocid=st
liamoo11
04/03/2018, 11:08 PM
Arsehole talk
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/football/northern-irish-boss-claims-fai-use-‘sectarian’-tactics/ar-BBJQyR5?ocid=st
unbelievable nonsense as usual from o Neill. Martin o Neill needs to come out and say he has no intention of contemplating any such gentleman's agreement. Brian Kerr's attitude to this always annoyed the life out of me this pandering to the northern quasi football state. If I'm born in cork or in antrim I'm Irish and if I want to play for Ireland I can end of story.
Michael o Neill would be spending this weekend trying to get mctomminey to play for Scotland if the Scots had come up with enough cash and a long-term contract for him after he interviewed for that job before Christmas so he is not exactly Mr loyal. Turning it into a Catholic protestant argument is pathetic anyone who wants to represent their country of Ireland has always been welcome.
He says Rory Hale hasn't got picked for us yet he is in our 21 s squads and the Rory brown lad only switched a few months ago and has been in our 18/19s squads so that is more tripe.
The last time a few months ago he went off on one of these rants he thought aoron mceneff had switched when only his brother actually had which would hardly fill you with confidence. Noel king takes slot of flak but I hope he continues to work to fascilite lads to come across from the north to play for their country
gastric
04/03/2018, 11:36 PM
Easy solution. Start targeting every NI born player from the age of 15 0nwards. I can imagine some of the more colourful answers the FAI might receive from some parties, but let's not be perceived to be racist!
DannyInvincible
05/03/2018, 4:57 AM
I thought the IFA had moved on from this embarrassing nonsense.
Michael O’Neill has rebuked the FAI for what he believes are ‘sectarian’ tactics regarding their pursuit of Northern Ireland-born players.
The first Ulster-born Catholic to manage Northern Ireland, O’Neill has labelled the FAI’s sourcing of Northern players as ‘weasel-like’ and claims defender Paddy McNair was only considered because of his name.
‘The FAI ever only approach one type of player: Catholic. You could argue that’s sectarian in terms of your recruitment, couldn’t you?’ suggested O’Neill.
‘They (FAI) thought Paddy must be a Catholic and when they found out he was a Protestant, they stayed away from it,’ said O’Neill.
What is O'Neill's evidence for all this? How does he know these Catholic players didn't initiate contact with the FAI? How does he know the FAI were supposedly interested in McNair if the FAI "stayed away from it"? That would imply the association didn't approach him.
This notion of a sectarian selection policy is such baloney seeing as players from all sorts of religious backgrounds have played for us, including players from Ulster Protestant backgrounds such as Alan Kernaghan, Alex Bruce and Adam Barton.
The five players born in the North capped for the Republic of Ireland at senior level by Martin O’Neill are all Catholic: James McClean, Shane Duffy, Darron Gibson, Marc Wilson and Eunan O’Kane.
O'Kane is a humanist. ;)
Anyway, it's hardly a surprise most of our players from the north also come from Catholic backgrounds seeing as it is generally people from Catholic backgrounds who identify as nationally Irish. You might have the likes of Stephen Nolan "swinging both ways", but the number of Protestants in the north who support Ireland over NI would be rather small.
While there is speculation another Catholic, QPR striker Paul Smyth, a Belfast-born GAA fan, may be tempted to switch ranks under the contentious FIFA rule which allows a player born anywhere on the island to declare for the Republic.
That's a misrepresentation of the rule. There is no FIFA rule specifically tailored to favour the FAI. The rule in question - article 5 of the Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes - is not contentious and features the general eligibility principle. It says that "[a]ny person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of that country". Only Irish nationals can play for Ireland. If a player is a British citizen only, he is not eligible to play for the FAI.
‘You can’t assume just because a player from the North watches GAA that he wants to play for the Republic of Ireland. I liked the GAA, so did Jim Magilton, and Martin O’Neill,’ said O’Neill. ‘There was a recent article about Paul Smyth, which could easily have been written a few years ago about Stuart Dallas, when he was breaking into Brentford team.
‘But Stuart wasn’t mentioned. Why? Because he’s Protestant. That’s what annoys us the most.
Is he conflating media speculation with a supposed FAI policy? Have the FAI assumed Smyth wants to play for Ireland? How would O'Neill know this? Simply on the basis of a speculative newspaper article?
O’Neill questioned the FAI’s ‘unscrupulous’ means of sourcing players with a direct bloodline to Northern Ireland.
Everything the FAI do stays within the confines of the same set of eligibility rules (articles 5-8) by which every other association has to play, so it's hardly unscrupulous. And it doesn't matter where else players might have a "direct bloodline" to; if they're Irish nationals and satisfy the eligibility criteria, they're eligible to play for us.
‘There is no consultation, the Republic just go and weasel away and take the player,’ he said.
He seems to think the FAI require the IFA's permission to facilitate Irish nationals who wish to play for their country. What planet is he on?
‘Daniel Devine of Partick Thistle is a West Belfast boy and would have gone to Euros (2016) with us. Only he can’t play for Northern Ireland as he’s signed an international transfer.’
‘They (FAI) don’t really care about the player, just care about taking him.
‘They’ve taken Northern Ireland players and not played them, Daniel was one, Rory Hale another. Rory Brown, a goalkeeper is the most recent.
‘I can list you 10 players who’ve made that decision and have never represented the Republic.
‘Why take them? What is point of asking a player to change his allegiance, to make a decision about his whole international future, and then not pick him?’
Those players aren't zombies or unconscious automatons. They would have made a decision, most likely with the assistance of their families and friends, and would have weighed up the benefits and the risks. The FAI would have then facilitated their choice. Maybe these players are happier to be simply fighting for a chance to represent their country than they would be racking up caps for an entity with which they don't identify.
Also, as liamoo points out, Hale has been in under-21 squads of ours.
‘I don’t have a problem with James McClean. He was 22 years of age, he knew what he wanted. I have a problem when it’s a 16, 17 or 18-year-old.’
The complaint used to be that the players who switched were hanging around in the IFA's youth teams for too long and weren't switching early enough. Now, they're supposedly switching too early. Which is it?
To help prevent further seepage from Northern Ireland ranks, O’Neill will seek a ceasefire with his Republic of Ireland counterpart, a former captain of the North.
‘I hope to sit down with Martin and get some sort of gentleman’s agreement whereby if a young boy has represented Northern Ireland at aged 17 to 21, the FAI don’t ask him to change,’ said O’Neill.
He's deluded. I hope Martin tells him to get lost. Any gentleman's agreement whereby the FAI would refuse to facilitate northerners who wish to make themselves available for Ireland would be a breach of FIFA's rules and of individual players' rights under those rules. John Delaney has in the past claimed that the FAI don't approach northern players (and I know this was the case with Shane Duffy), but why shouldn't the FAI approach eligible players? The association would be entirely within their rights to do so, if they wanted.
If a young Northern Ireland player explodes on the scene and ‘turns out to be a superstar’, O’Neill points out that ‘the FAI can get him before I cap him, they just have to stay on top of it.’
That's just not true. For the FAI to "get him", the player would first have to be an Irish national and would also have to want to play for the FAI, obviously. The FAI can't force northern players who don't identify as Irish nationals to play for us.
Olé Olé
05/03/2018, 7:47 AM
Thanks Dan. Good breakdown.
His comments make me feel sick. For a guy who seems to have much goodwill amongst broader media down here for his punditry on TV3 and time at Rovers, he is well able to spout some bile when he wants to.
The sectarianism point is completely ridiculous, as Dan states. The intrinsic link between Catholicism and Nationalism is obviously the foundation for us pursuing a player, not where he goes to mass on a Sunday (if at all).
Still a bit of time there for Daniel Devine to push on but I'm afraid we have a few options in the SPL at the back as well as him- Carl McHugh, Anthony O'Connor, Joe Shaughnessy (all 4 are 25, co-incidentally).
DeLorean
05/03/2018, 9:40 AM
It's a tricky one. He never ruled us out. But a few barren years and now very average championship scoring record and we are talking about him claiming. Is that making him think about claiming? At the moment it appears to me like his stock would have to fall another bit for him to claim for us. Hard to know how I would feel about it. His England dream is quite remote now so why hasn't he claimed. How much more remote must it get?
He's had major problems at club level in terms of game time over the past two or three years, I don't think he was in a position to concern himself too much about international football. He might well feel that he needs to get back to scoring regularly at Championship level before he would even be considered for Ireland. I'm convinced he'd be keen to play for us if he was approached at this stage, he'll know himself the England dream is pretty much dead in the water barring a miraculous transformation. I'd have no problem with him being brought on board as long as his form merits it. He's been very clear that England are his number one preference, which is fair enough, but he's very much in tune with his Irishness also.
tetsujin1979
05/03/2018, 9:48 AM
YBIG have posited on their twitter account that these might be fake quotes.
I can only find them on extra.ie. You'd think that at least one other news organ would pick them up.
DeLorean
05/03/2018, 10:18 AM
Paddy McEleney scored on his Oldham debut today away to Scunthorpe. Oldham won 2-0 with Eoin Doyle scoring the second.
Fluky goal, a Jack Byrne shot that deflected off McEleney - https://youtu.be/ljr2yuNFdJ0?t=1m11s
Doyle's goal is straight after if you keep watching.
tetsujin1979
05/03/2018, 10:48 AM
YBIG have posited on their twitter account that these might be fake quotes.
I can only find them on extra.ie. You'd think that at least one other news organ would pick them up.
seems the article has been taken off extra.ie.
Mr_Parker
05/03/2018, 12:33 PM
Until Michael O'Neill publicly states that he did not give those quotes, it must be assumed that he did and the story has been taken down due to pressures from those that are embarased by it and favours are being called in. It will be interesting to see if it is allowed to have a quiet death or if the author will state anything publicly.
osarusan
05/03/2018, 2:22 PM
Until Michael O'Neill publicly states that he did not give those quotes, it must be assumed that he did
Complete and utter nonsense.
Mr_Parker
05/03/2018, 3:15 PM
Why do you say that?
DannyInvincible
05/03/2018, 3:24 PM
970429589293068293
https://media.giphy.com/media/3og0INyCmHlNylks9O/giphy.gif
tetsujin1979
05/03/2018, 4:05 PM
Why do you say that?
you don't think there's any chance whatsoever that the quotes were made up?
osarusan
05/03/2018, 4:11 PM
Why do you say that?There is no more reason to take the position that we must assume the quotes to be true until proven otherwise, than there is to take the position that we must assume the quotes to be false until proven otherwise.
Mr_Parker
05/03/2018, 4:24 PM
There is no more reason to take the position that we must assume the quotes to be true until proven otherwise, than there is to take the position that we must assume the quotes to be false until proven otherwise.
The quotes were published and attributed to Michael O'Neill. That remains the case. That is the point I was making.
Mr_Parker
05/03/2018, 4:57 PM
you don't think there's any chance whatsoever that the quotes were made up?
Personally no. If they had been there would have been swift denials via the IFA. If anything is to come now, nearly 24 hours after it was published, it would only heighten my suspicions of it being true with all parties agreeing to try and sweep it away quietly, especially with the friendly in the near future.
bwagner
05/03/2018, 6:14 PM
2654 Rab O'Neill uncle Tom
Olé Olé
05/03/2018, 6:26 PM
Personally no. If they had been there would have been swift denials via the IFA. If anything is to come now, nearly 24 hours after it was published, it would only heighten my suspicions of it being true with all parties agreeing to try and sweep it away quietly, especially with the friendly in the near future.
Good.point. Imagine the outrage that these comments would be met with if they were fabricated? Have they gained sufficient traction for the IFA to become aware of them (genuine or bogus)?
Mr_Parker
05/03/2018, 6:28 PM
Good.point. Imagine the outrage that these comments would be met with if they were fabricated? Have they gained sufficient traction for the IFA to become aware of them (genuine or bogus)?
Oh they are aware, be sure of that.
DannyInvincible
05/03/2018, 6:34 PM
Good.point. Imagine the outrage that these comments would be met with if they were fabricated? Have they gained sufficient traction for the IFA to become aware of them (genuine or bogus)?
They are aware.
970595111120797696
I haven't heard any further update. Surely it wouldn't take the IFA all day to contact their senior men's international team manager and provide confirmation that the quotes were indeed bogus, unless, of course, the quotes were genuine and the IFA are keen not to draw any further attention to the matter...
osarusan
05/03/2018, 6:46 PM
Personally no. If they had been there would have been swift denials via the IFA. If anything is to come now, nearly 24 hours after it was published, it would only heighten my suspicions of it being true with all parties agreeing to try and sweep it away quietly, especially with the friendly in the near future.
Why do you not think that as the journalist in question has not come out nearly 24 hours after it was published to prove it is true, it heightens your suspicions of it being false? That seems to me to just as likely an interpretation as yours.
Your argument seems to be that we must believe it as it hasn't been denied yet, and even if it is denied, that will just make you believe it even more. You don't think that is unreasonable at all?
I have no idea if O'Neill made the comments he is alleged to have made. It would surprise me if he did, given he doesn't really have a history of the kind of witless sh!t-stirring those quotes would be. Equally it would surprise me for a journalist to simply fabricate an interview/set of quotes. I don't know what to believe.
DannyInvincible
05/03/2018, 6:52 PM
seems the article has been taken off extra.ie.
Aye, it's gone from here: https://extra.ie/2018/03/04/sport/soccernews/northern-irish-boss-claims-fai-use
The content is still on this site though: http://uk.pressfrom.com/news/sport/-241781-northern-irish-boss-claims-fai-use-sectarian-tactics/
That site appears to syndicate content from other sites and accredits Extra.ie as being the source.
If it's deleted from that site, there are screenshots of the content of the article here for anyone interested:
970608324172447744
DannyInvincible
05/03/2018, 7:32 PM
I'm assuming it was this Philip Quinn who wrote the piece for Extra.ie?: https://twitter.com/quinner61?lang=en
Mr_Parker
05/03/2018, 8:40 PM
Why do you not think that as the journalist in question has not come out nearly 24 hours after it was published to prove it is true, it heightens your suspicions of it being false? That seems to me to just as likely an interpretation as yours.
Your argument seems to be that we must believe it as it hasn't been denied yet, and even if it is denied, that will just make you believe it even more. You don't think that is unreasonable at all?
I have no idea if O'Neill made the comments he is alleged to have made. It would surprise me if he did, given he doesn't really have a history of the kind of witless sh!t-stirring those quotes would be. Equally it would surprise me for a journalist to simply fabricate an interview/set of quotes. I don't know what to believe.
The longer there is no rebuttal, the more I believe the report was 100% accurate. Given the complete silence from all parts of the media on this, again the more I think a marriage of convenience has taken place involving all parties.
Other sources will no doubt leak information in the days and weeks to come as to the stories validity.
tetsujin1979
05/03/2018, 8:42 PM
I'm assuming it was this Philip Quinn who wrote the piece for Extra.ie?: https://twitter.com/quinner61?lang=en
Yeah, looks like it's him. The google cached version is still available: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:SP300QE-zgkJ:https://extra.ie/2018/03/04/sport/soccernews/northern-irish-boss-claims-fai-use+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie
Clicking the "Philip Quinn" link at the top brings you to this page: https://extra.ie/author/philip-quinn
Mr_Parker
05/03/2018, 10:59 PM
Back out in the open. Tomorrow's Irish Mail.
2655
tetsujin1979
05/03/2018, 11:31 PM
Same journalist
Olé Olé
06/03/2018, 6:11 AM
Not sure when the article was published on extra.ie but I know Mr. Parker put the link up here on Sunday night. Is it slightly odd there was a lag on Monday in publishing the article in the Mail? That's very dependent on when the article was published Sunday.
osarusan
06/03/2018, 9:43 AM
The longer there is no rebuttal, the more I believe the report was 100% accurate. Given the complete silence from all parts of the media on this, again the more I think a marriage of convenience has taken place involving all parties.
Other sources will no doubt leak information in the days and weeks to come as to the stories validity.
I'd agree to a certain extent. After a certain length of time, the lack of a flat-out denial is telling. That said, the fact that the article has just been pulled without explanation or comment doesn't fill me with confidence in the journalist either. Why would they not stand over their own story, if it is 100% accurate?
I think the power of the IFA to just make this go away is being overstated - these comments, if true, are a serious story, and I can't imagine an organisation like the BBC simply going along with the IFA on this.
Mr_Parker
06/03/2018, 9:50 AM
I'd agree to a certain extent. After a certain length of time, the lack of a flat-out denial is telling. That said, the fact that the article has just been pulled without explanation or comment doesn't fill me with confidence in the journalist either. Why would they not stand over their own story, if it is 100% accurate?
I think the power of the IFA to just make this go away is being overstated - these comments, if true, are a serious story, and I can't imagine an organisation like the BBC going along with the IFA.
Well now that it has been published again I think we can all be fairly confident of its accuracy. Sports journalists are so be holding to the IFA and O'neill is unreal in the North. A journalist knows that if he falls foul of either, much of his job will be impossible due to losing access. It would not surprise me that they were asked to sit on it. Even today there still isn't a peep out of them that I have seen.
seanfhear
06/03/2018, 10:16 AM
Michael O Neill is driving a precarious route on this one . Perhaps the Guardians of Sensibility might have a word with him to keep a straight and sensible line . Less chance of drawing attention to his manoeuvring .
CraftyToePoke
06/03/2018, 10:44 AM
Well now that it has been published again I think we can all be fairly confident of its accuracy.
It's lead story on RTESports this morning.
DeLorean
06/03/2018, 10:44 AM
RTÉ & the Irish Independent are both reporting it. Neither mention the sectarian accusation a such, so it reads slightly softer maybe.
osarusan
06/03/2018, 10:51 AM
From the RTE article:
Speaking to the Irish Daily Mail, Michael O’Neill said the number of players that have opted to play for the Republic and not made a senior appearance is in double figures.
Perhaps Extra.ie were told to delete it as it was an Irish Daily Mail story. (No idea who the journalist Philip Quinn is, may be a freelancer)
Diggs246
06/03/2018, 10:52 AM
We should start targeting Prod players as well, just to see the head on him
CraftyToePoke
06/03/2018, 10:58 AM
We should start targeting Prod players as well, just to see the head on him
That's actually how I would like our MON / Association respond to this, if they chose to acknowledge it at all. Make clear all Irishmen are entitled to and very welcome to represent Ireland and will all be welcomed by everyone in Mexico, should they chose to do so. Don't take a backward step here.
Olé Olé
06/03/2018, 11:26 AM
That's actually how I would like our MON / Association respond to this, if they chose to acknowledge it at all. Make clear all Irishmen are entitled to and very welcome to represent Ireland and will all be welcomed by everyone in Mexico, should they chose to do so. Don't take a backward step here.
Don't think there's much chance of MON addressing it. From my memory, he seems to be keeping well back from this topic. I would love us to have a manager that would take a more responsive approach to these assertions coming from Michael O'Neill (not the first time either). Trap probably wasn't aware of the topic. Kerr has always been soft on it and Staunton wasn't around long enough or exposed to it.
CraftyToePoke
06/03/2018, 11:41 AM
Don't think there's much chance of MON addressing it. From my memory, he seems to be keeping well back from this topic.
Wouldn't be too hard to open him up with a well phrased question at a press conference, with Duffy sitting next to him, or young James.
IsMiseSean
06/03/2018, 12:00 PM
This is from the RTE article, which is not the case.
Players born on the island of Ireland have the right to represent either the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland and can switch, as long as they have not already played in an official competition at senior international level for either country
DannyInvincible
06/03/2018, 12:37 PM
From the RTE article:
Perhaps Extra.ie were told to delete it as it was an Irish Daily Mail story. (No idea who the journalist Philip Quinn is, may be a freelancer)
Quinn is well-known and has been around a good while. I've seen him interviewed for documentaries/features on Irish football before. I'm not sure when this one below would have been made exactly, but he features in it discussing the Ireland-Italy game from World Cup '94 at 1m33s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm84YD0NH30&feature=youtu.be&t=1m33s
Has anyone seen the full text of the Irish Daily Mail interview? I wonder does it feature the more explicit accusations of "sectarian"/"unscrupulous" recruitment and "weasel[ing] away"...?
DannyInvincible
06/03/2018, 12:39 PM
This is from the RTE article, which is not the case.
SMH. Was it all in vain?!
https://media.giphy.com/media/g8GfH3i5F0hby/giphy.gif
Charlie Darwin
06/03/2018, 2:40 PM
From the RTE article:
Perhaps Extra.ie were told to delete it as it was an Irish Daily Mail story. (No idea who the journalist Philip Quinn is, may be a freelancer)
Extra.ie and the IDM are the same thing. I presume they pulled it because they knew it would sell papers if it was taken offline.
Olé Olé
06/03/2018, 3:04 PM
Wouldn't be too hard to open him up with a well phrased question at a press conference, with Duffy sitting next to him, or young James.
Tony O'Donoghue steps up: "This one is for James. James, you were born within the 6 counties and are passionate about representing Ireland as it is your country. Can you understand how others from the 6 counties have played or play for Northern Ireland despite coming from, what from the outside look like, nationalist backgrounds? That must be very hard for you to reconcile, James, is it?"
DannyInvincible
06/03/2018, 3:08 PM
Here's something I'd written after the article had been removed from the web and before the interview was published again today, although I primarily sought to challenge much of what O'Neill said because, even if his words hadn't been true, the quotes were still representative of popular sentiment within the NI fan-base: https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com/2018/03/06/did-michael-oneill-accuse-the-football-association-of-ireland-of-pursuing-a-sectarian-recruitment-policy/
It is particularly hypocritical of O'Neill to scold the FAI for allegedly asking players to switch and then not picking them considering he himself was, according to Shane McEleney (http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/ireland/2012/08/30/3338482/we-have-to-make-sure-that-players-are-happy-to-play-for-northern-), "torturing" the player about switching from the FAI to the IFA, yet O'Neill has completely ignored the player at senior level since.
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