Potentially eligible players thread

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

He could just as easily have been there watching Shane Long and Joey O'Brien....

The last thing we want at a time like this is a f***ing sideshow over a mediocre footballer who is using playing for Ireland as a threat to Roy Hodgson and England.

I can't believe this drama over such an average player.

If it was Lee Cattermole or Matty Fryatt it would be the same thing.

[Olé Olé]

Sounds like Nazis aryan stuff - blood percentages were used to calculate whether someone was Jewish.


Did you really just see my 'fag-packet mathematics' and raise me 'interesting Nazi history'?

[Charlie Darwin]

Did you really just see my 'fag-packet mathematics' and raise me 'interesting Nazi history'?
He certainly did, Heinrich.

[Deckydee]

I would laugh if he was playing in this match: http://www.independent.ie/sport/ireland-to-host-england-in-friendly-at-the-aviva-in-june-2015-30166333.html

[Stuttgart88]

If that's Noble's attitude then the fck off should be directed to our management team, who (if it transpires) would be 99% responsible for his presence in the squad.
O'Neill cowers in front of the threat posed by Geysir's caustic internet analysis

http://www.thescore.ie/martin-oneill-mark-noble-1648655-Sep2014/

I'm hoping that puts it all to bed now. They've had a few days to gauge social media. Only some old bloke who follows Sheff Wednesday was unconcerned by Noble's attitude :)

[Stuttgart88]

“But at some stage or another, if you’re indecisive about something, I’m not so sure that augurs brilliantly for stuff" says Martin O'Neill indecisively.

[Deckydee]

http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/noble-must-recognise-that-ireland-is-not-a-fall-back-option

[Deckydee]

http://balls.ie/football/disgrace-ex-irish-international-mark-noble-saga/

[TrapAPony]

Some advice for Noble from Sam Allardyce.

"Play. Go play international football. He's clearly not going to get an opportunity here so if he gets the opportunity through parentage to play for Ireland he should go – international football is fantastic."

http://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=127775

[back of the net]

Fair play to Sam Allardyce. Some good advice for Noble.

"Play. Go play international football. He's clearly not going to get an opportunity here so if he gets the opportunity through parentage to play for Ireland he should go – international football is fantastic."

http://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=127775


Somebody should tell Sam while playing INTL football is fantastic......its even better playing for a country that you actually and only want to play for

[tricky_colour]

I have mixed feelings on this, clearly England is his first choice, but he is 50/50 on nationality isn't he?
I think in that situation he is entitled to have a preference but he is also entitled to a second choice
if he can't get his first choice.

I think perhaps one of the reasons he may not have got an England call up is he is not considered English enough perhaps?

HoweverI am very uneasy over his commitment, could he every play for Ireland V England? Could you trust him?

I have never really had much interest in this thread until now, could not see much point in wasting time on
something that may never happen.

Anyhow as he has not even declared for Ireland I don't think there is much point even thinking about it,
will cross that bridge if and when it arrives.

Interestingly I saw this article when reading one of the linked posted here:-

http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/paul-scholes-england-danger-becoming-new-ireland


Paul Scholes: ‘England are in danger of becoming the new Ireland’

(cheeky git!! We're not *that* bad!!! :angry2:)


PAUL Scholes reckons England – like the Republic of Ireland – are in danger of failing to qualify for major tournaments in the future.
After failing to make it passed the group stage of this year’s World Cup the Manchester United legend believes that a tough task lies ahead for England.
“From what I’ve seen at this World Cup, we’ll be lucky to qualify. I fear England are going the way of the Republic of Ireland, Wales and Scotland,” Scholes wrote in his Paddy Power blog.
He added that an import-saturated Premier League is detrimental to the development of young English players.




Perhaps also interesting to read this, it's kind of relevant
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/paul-scholes-england-danger-becoming-new-ireland


His (Paul Scholes) former captain Roy Keane was another player to miss that final at the Nou Camp. Hailing a player that he and his team-mates "looked up to", Scholes wished the Cork man well in his new job as Ireland assistant manager and also revealed his own Irish heritage.

"I hope they do well. My grandparents were from Ireland and I like to look at the results and it's a country you hope to do well."

That's one player the Granny Rule missed unfortunately!




So let's say England had overlooked Paul Scholes, how would you feel like him declaring for Ireland?

Somewhat more positively I expect?

[ArdeeBhoy]

We are 'that bad', as even that lot are still 'better'. Though the gap seems to be narrowing, much more of an issue as soccer is their national team sport...
And common knowledge re. Scholes, no reservations about his ability, would have worked well with a Corkonian or two, just his employer!
:rolleyes:

[TrapAPony]

Scholes also mentioned Scotland and Wales. I do not see the problem with what he said tbh. We haven't done much internationally in years.

[dr_peepee]

Alardyce is talking out of his a***!! .. All this public posturing from Noble is nothing more than a shot across the bow of Hodgson. "PLAY ME OR I'M OFF".... Now if someone at West Ham done the same to Alardyce I'm sure his response would be different to what he spouted above.... I don't want Noble near the Irish jersey. If only because he hadn't got the respect to be more subtle in his goings on!

[gastric]

Noble has not covered himself in glory this week and conspiracy theories are certainly merited by his comments. While reflecting on this, it brought back memories of another player who copped a bit of flak when he first displayed a similar attitude, but came to be accepted by most as a committed Irish international. Granted there is a major age difference, but possibly the old saying might also apply to Noble as in ' actions speak louder than words'.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2001/0205/154046-morrisonc/

[Stuttgart88]

Clinton had personalitee

[paul_oshea]

"Thursday, 14 Jun 2007"

i got really confused reading that artcile. Why would it have been updated, i assume because it had been filed on the new website and no content management etl done on these files automatically.

Clinton at least went over of his own accord to smooth things over with McCarthy. Noble seems to be acting the maggot. He should be selected for a 32 man squad and then not selected for the final squad when he makes his decision. Let him cop on before picking him, if that decision is made that he will play for us.

[back of the net]

So let's say England had overlooked Paul Scholes, how would you feel like him declaring for Ireland?

Somewhat more positively I expect?

If Paul Scholes spoke of declaring for Ireland the way Noble did on Goals on Sunday ...I would tell him to f**K off


Christ ....if it was messi .....id tell him to f**k off too


Whatever about a country not been your place of birth .....but to use that country on a football show in order to potentially gain your chances of getting a call up to another country like what noble did at the weekend ......is a disgrace....no matter what the quality of player!!!

[back of the net]

Some advice for Noble from Sam Allardyce.

"Play. Go play international football. He's clearly not going to get an opportunity here so if he gets the opportunity through parentage to play for Ireland he should go – international football is fantastic."

http://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=127775

If only big Sam was positive towards kevin kilbane when kev told him he wanted to play for Ireland......hypocrisy of him!!


http://www.thescore.ie/kevin-kilbane-interview-irishness-1147307-Oct2013/

"One particularly significant story during his early playing days with Preston begins with a team meeting being called by then youth team manager and boyhood idol of Kilbane’s Sam Allardyce. Big Sam reveals that one of his players has been called up to England’s U18s squad and, as Kilbane looks around the room attempting to guess which of his team-mates has been picked, it is announced that he is in fact the “lucky one”.
Kilbane describes feeling his heart sink. Unable to disappoint his manager, he eventually plucks up the courage to pay a visit to his office the next day to explain that his wish is to represent Ireland. Furious at hearing the news, Allardyce tells the teenager to “f*** off” before ordering him to leave."

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Sounds like an apocryphal story to me. I cannot imagine Killa ever getting near an England squad of any description. Did he address it in his book?

[back of the net]

Sounds like an apocryphal story to me. I cannot imagine Killa ever getting near an England squad of any description. Did he address it in his book?

He sure did TOWK.

But I heard that story years ago in fairness to Kev....long before the book for what its worth

[Charlie Darwin]

Killer has confirmed it a few times. I don't really see why it's unbelieveable either, he was a good player.

[DannyInvincible]

I have mixed feelings on this, clearly England is his first choice, but he is 50/50 on nationality isn't he?
I think in that situation he is entitled to have a preference but he is also entitled to a second choice
if he can't get his first choice.

He has two Irish grandparents, so whatever simple ratio/fraction that equates to, ha.


I think perhaps one of the reasons he may not have got an England call up is he is not considered English enough perhaps?

His identity is English through and through, by the sounds of it. I don't think "not being English enough" is something the FA or Hodgson would have held against him. Do you think other players considered "not English enough" have been routinely ignored? I don't see it. It's the stuff of conspiracy theory. Sure, he played for England at various under-age levels. Actually, he captained them, didn't he? Besides, England have always been happy to call up eligible dual nationals, including even those born outside of England; see Owen Hargreaves, Raheem Sterling or John Barnes, for example.


HoweverI am very uneasy over his commitment, could he every play for Ireland V England? Could you trust him?

Ha, I can just see it now... Noble is captaining us in the 2018 World Cup final against England. We're in the dying moments with the score level at 0-0. Next thing, Noble picks up the ball in midfield and we all urge him forward for one last chance to steal the game before extra-time and the dreaded penalties. To everyone's surprise, he dribbles back towards Shay's goal, takes the ball into his own box and blasts it past the baffled 42-year-old caught off-guard in the Irish net. 1-0 to England, he races over in front of the stunned and heart-broken Irish supporters screaming, "Take that you fenian b*stards!"

We should have seen it coming. :(

[DannyInvincible]

Sadlier's all for calling up Noble. Kenny's having absolutely none of it.

[tricky_colour]

He has two Irish grandparents, so whatever simple ratio/fraction that equates to, ha.



His identity is English through and through, by the sounds of it. I don't think "not being English enough" is something the FA or Hodgson would have held against him. Do you think other players considered "not English enough" have been routinely ignored? I don't see it. It's the stuff of conspiracy theory. Sure, he played for England at various under-age levels. Actually, he captained them, didn't he? Besides, England have always been happy to call up eligible dual nationals, including even those born outside of England; see Owen Hargreaves, Raheem Sterling or John Barnes, for example.



Ha, I can just see it now... Noble is captaining us in the 2018 World Cup final against England. We're in the dying moments with the score level at 0-0. Next thing, Noble picks up the ball in midfield and we all urge him forward for one last chance to steal the game before extra-time and the dreaded penalties. To everyone's surprise, he dribbles back towards Shay's goal, takes the ball into his own box and blasts it past the baffled 42-year-old caught off-guard in the Irish net. 1-0 to England, he races over in front of the stunned and heart-broken Irish supporters screaming, "Take that you fenian b*stards!"

We should have seen it coming. :(

Well by my reckoning we have 4 grandparents ( unless some sort of cloning has been used, doubt it was around in those days) so 50% seems about right.
I would say the 'English enough' rule comes into play when there are other 'more english' players of a similar ability, and I think
the same applies to Irish players usually. If you are pulling up tree trucking in the Premiership you probably don't have to very English to
get a call from the FA, a love of roast beef or rambling through the countryside would probably get you in. So they will call the likes
of John Barnes.

I think there is something to be said for commitment, for some people playing for their country means everything, for others, not so much,
some would rather be doing something else other than international duty and might see going out of a tournament as not such a bad thing.

Might explain a few of England's flops actually.

Let's face it Stephen Ireland could have save himself a lot of hassle by kicking the ball in to the back of his own net!!!

Trouble is he might need three attempts :D

[TrapAPony]

John Giles: Mark Noble would go straight into the Ireland team

West Ham midfielder Mark Noble would get a place in the Irish team if he declared for Martin O'Neill's squad.

That's the view of Republic of Ireland midfield legend and media pundit John Giles.
Giles, speaking at the Dublin launch of the Westport sea2summit adventure race to be held on November 8, also believes that it's time for James McCarthy to fulfil his promise and be the boss of the central area of the pitch for Ireland.
As a player, Giles was always cool, calm, and collected, and he brought that clarity of analysis to the subject of Mark Noble and U-21 player Jack Grealish who have yet to commit to wearing the green.

Noble, 27, qualifies to play for Ireland but has displayed a reluctance to make the leap of faith required to end his hopes of a call-up for England.
Giles wouldn't hesitate to avail of Noble's services if he decided to join up with the Republic squad.
"When I was the Irish manager, I would have picked anyone that would improve the team once you are obeying the rules.

"I would take Noble tomorrow, as he would improve our team. He's a good Premier League player, and we don't have many good Premier League players. I think he would get into the team straight away.
"Young Grealish has a decision to make and I can understand it.
"Most of the lads I know who were raised in England want to play for England, it's just natural for them. There are greater rewards and greater exposure playing for England than there is for us and that's just the honest situation," said Giles.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/john-giles-mark-noble-would-go-straight-into-the-ireland-team-30560708.html

[gastric]

John Giles: Mark Noble would go straight into the Ireland team

West Ham midfielder Mark Noble would get a place in the Irish team if he declared for Martin O'Neill's squad.

That's the view of Republic of Ireland midfield legend and media pundit John Giles.
Giles, speaking at the Dublin launch of the Westport sea2summit adventure race to be held on November 8, also believes that it's time for James McCarthy to fulfil his promise and be the boss of the central area of the pitch for Ireland.
As a player, Giles was always cool, calm, and collected, and he brought that clarity of analysis to the subject of Mark Noble and U-21 player Jack Grealish who have yet to commit to wearing the green.

Noble, 27, qualifies to play for Ireland but has displayed a reluctance to make the leap of faith required to end his hopes of a call-up for England.
Giles wouldn't hesitate to avail of Noble's services if he decided to join up with the Republic squad.
"When I was the Irish manager, I would have picked anyone that would improve the team once you are obeying the rules.

"I would take Noble tomorrow, as he would improve our team. He's a good Premier League player, and we don't have many good Premier League players. I think he would get into the team straight away.
"Young Grealish has a decision to make and I can understand it.
"Most of the lads I know who were raised in England want to play for England, it's just natural for them. There are greater rewards and greater exposure playing for England than there is for us and that's just the honest situation," said Giles.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/john-giles-mark-noble-would-go-straight-into-the-ireland-team-30560708.html

Giles is stating what O'Neill and Roy would be thinking, as managers make pragmatic, not emotional decisions!

[DeLorean]

Sounds like an apocryphal story to me.

Yet you find a story about Mark Noble roaring sectarian abuse at an Irish crowd believable.


I cannot imagine Killa ever getting near an England squad of any description.

Even though Mark Noble, an "average, average" player, capatined their U21's?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I'd give Noble the benefit of the doubt on this one purely because it hasn't gained any traction.

Same Redditor posted this comment.

"Seriously.

It's worth noting that the crowd was giving the English players a fair bit of abuse (not so much from the family section mind, but I suppose it can be hard to tell where it's coming from when concentrating on the game).

Noble doesn't have a well known history of lashing out at supporters, but he did that game. Probably more as a reaction to the boos each English touch got more than a deep hatred of Ireland, but that's still a completely unacceptable thing for a future Irish international to scream at Irish supporters."

[tetsujin1979]

Sounds like an apocryphal story to me. I cannot imagine Killa ever getting near an England squad of any description. Did he address it in his book?
It's common knowledge he was called into an England underage squad and refused it

[DeLorean]

I'd give Noble the benefit of the doubt on this one purely because it hasn't gained any traction.

Same Redditor posted this comment.

"Seriously.

It's worth noting that the crowd was giving the English players a fair bit of abuse (not so much from the family section mind, but I suppose it can be hard to tell where it's coming from when concentrating on the game).

Noble doesn't have a well known history of lashing out at supporters, but he did that game. Probably more as a reaction to the boos each English touch got more than a deep hatred of Ireland, but that's still a completely unacceptable thing for a future Irish international to scream at Irish supporters."

Just to recap, was this the U21 game that England won 3-0 at Turner's Cross? It was the only Irish underage international I was ever at would you believe? I don't remember any hostility whatsoever. In fact, I vividly remember everybody (bar a stubborn friend of mine who we took the p!ss out of for being a dinosaur) standing and respecting GSTQ before kickoff, and there being a decent atmosphere in the ground generally. I can't remember that changing during the game at all.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.newstalk.ie/liam-george-on-mark-noble-to-ireland

Liam George firmly against Noble call up.

[geysir]

Just to recap, was this the U21 game that England won 3-0 at Turner's Cross? It was the only Irish underage international I was ever at would you believe? I don't remember any hostility whatsoever. In fact, I vividly remember everybody (bar a stubborn friend of mine who we took the p!ss out of for being a dinosaur) standing and respecting GSTQ before kickoff, and there being a decent atmosphere in the ground generally. I can't remember that changing during the game at all. The story an obvious crock of dung.
There hasn't been a peep until now that this highly contraversial incident took place.
Both times after scoring he ran to the Irish fans (the first goal to the section where I was sat, in the family section) and screamed abuse along the lines "Take that, you fenian *******s."

"where I was sat" ?? :rolleyes:

However a new controversy emerges as Noble faces charges of slinging the fascist salute in the direction of the crowd that night ;)

http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/w540/Library/SF363/270925.jpg

[tetsujin1979]

been doing some research on this alleged abuse (slow day at work!)
Found threads on the game from People's Republic of Cork, boards.ie and from right here on foot.ie
The game was on Sky Sports, so lots of eyes on the game, none mention any kind of abuse from Noble after scoring.
PROC: http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116756
boards: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055165188
foot.ie: http://foot.ie/threads/73570-Republic-of-Ireland-Under-21-squad-v-England-%28Turner%E2%80%99s-Cross-October-16th%29

none of this prove he didn't say or do what's alleged, but I'm pretty sure if he did then it would have been mentioned by someone in one of these threads

There's a slight chance I have a recording of it somewhere, although I think it's the return game in St Mary's I have

[DeLorean]

I'm pretty sure I still have the match programme at home. That won't help though. If I remember correctly, it was the same year that England first visited Croke Park in the rugby. I think the surprising respect that was shown for GSTQ and the good publicity it got had a bit of a knock on effect. That was going through my mind at the time anyway.

[paul_oshea]

Just because none of you didnt hear it or werent there, doesn't mean it didnt happen.

Loads of things happen in Gaza that cant be 100% verified, it doesnt mean they didnt happen.

Slightly off topic but we've heard nothing about the black box that was recovered from the Dutch Malaysian airlines flight over Ukraine

[Stuttgart88]

Tets, do something about this WUM will you?

[tetsujin1979]

Just because none of you didnt hear it or werent there, doesn't mean it didnt happen.

Loads of things happen in Gaza that cant be 100% verified, it doesnt mean they didnt happen.

Slightly off topic but we've heard nothing about the black box that was recovered from the Dutch Malaysian airlines flight over Ukraine
true, but how many things that happen in Gaza are in front of a sold out stadium, with live TV providing coverage?


Tets, do something about this WUM will you?
so.very.tempted.

[geysir]

I heard it didn't happen via a good mate who drinks in a pub not 200m from Roy Keane's local, you can't get any more authentic than that.

[DannyInvincible]

Well by my reckoning we have 4 grandparents ( unless some sort of cloning has been used, doubt it was around in those days) so 50% seems about right.

What about the generation in between; his parents? Can't they dilute, enhance or influence the determination of this specific measure?


I would say the 'English enough' rule comes into play when there are other 'more english' players of a similar ability, and I think
the same applies to Irish players usually. If you are pulling up tree trucking in the Premiership you probably don't have to very English to
get a call from the FA, a love of roast beef or rambling through the countryside would probably get you in. So they will call the likes
of John Barnes.

Wayne Rooney and Gary Cahill are from Irish backgrounds. Phil Jagielka is of Polish extraction. Andros Townsend is of Greek Cypriot and Jamaican descent. Danny Welbeck's roots are Ghanaian. Such "diluted" identities have never put the FA off selecting these players. Who else, besides poor Noble, has fallen victim to this alleged "rule"? If you're English and good enough, you'll get called up; if you're English and not quite good enough, you won't. I don't see why the "being English enough" factor would even come into play. What evidence is there to support your suspicion?

[Bungle]

I've come across English people who have two Irish born parents or 3/4 Irish grandparents and they don't feel in the slightest Irish, or are at best proud of their Irish roots, while feeling very English. Equally, I've come across English people who may have roots going back 3/4/5 generations (most of these people were in Liverpool) who would cheer for Ireland over England and who consider themselves more Irish than English.

It's a very difficult thing to measure how English someone is. By my reckoning, a fella like Noble, is very English and is probably only mildly proud of his Irish roots, while guys like Aldo were technically less Irish (one grandparent) but grew up in a surrounding culture of viewing himself as more Scouse (Irish) than English and didn't come across to me as a fraud like someone like Noble would.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

There are also plenty of Irish people who move to the UK and become ahem.... gentrified.

Des Lynam, Terry Wogan, Pierce Brosnan, My uncle.

[Charlie Darwin]

There are also plenty of Irish people who move to the UK and become ahem.... gentrified.

Des Lynam, Terry Wogan, Pierce Brosnan, My uncle.
No idea who the first three are but agree on the last one.

[Wangball]

I personally have no issue with anything Noble has said to date.

Realistically all of this guff will be forgotten if he does declare and plays as well as we know he can for us.

[DeLorean]

Yeah I'm sure everybody would get over the blow if he got the winner in an important game, we're resilient like that.

[Wangball]

I think this lark of speculating about how Irish someone may or may not be is a bit much.

If he does decide to play for us it won't be because of his love of Bosco as a child or his familiarity with the poetry of Oisin and the rest of the Fenian Cycle - its going to be a business decision, plain and simple and I for one am okay with that as long as he shows up and gives his all once that decision is made.

[DannyInvincible]

Des Lynam, Terry Wogan, Pierce Brosnan, My uncle.

You're Pierce Brosnan's nephew?! Why didn't you say? :p

[Olé Olé]

Richard Sadlier was on the Second Captains podcast and reckons the likes of Noble should be called up. Makes an interesting argument.

He told an interesting story about Ronnie O'Brien actually. Stated that he was sitting on the bench beside him at an under-20 game and Brian Kerr called O'Brien to warm up and he refused. Might explain why O'Brien never got a chance at senior level for Ireland.

[geysir]

Richard Sadlier was on the Second Captains podcast and reckons the likes of Noble should be called up. Makes an interesting argument.

He told an interesting story about Ronnie O'Brien actually. Stated that he was sitting on the bench beside him at an under-20 game and Brian Kerr called O'Brien to warm up and he refused. Might explain why O'Brien never got a chance at senior level for Ireland.Did Brian say please?
Ronnie refused a call up to a friendly intl in the USA (2006?).

[DannyInvincible]

He told an interesting story about Ronnie O'Brien actually. Stated that he was sitting on the bench beside him at an under-20 game and Brian Kerr called O'Brien to warm up and he refused. Might explain why O'Brien never got a chance at senior level for Ireland.

O'Brien had his chance. Stan invited him into the squad for the US tour in 2007 but O'Brien declined. He wasn't all that bothered about international football by the sounds of things: http://www.espnfc.com/story/433303


"I know a lot of players have aspirations to play on their national teams, but they haven't called me in for a long time so I don't hold out hope for it," he says. "I'm just happy playing club football. People are going to think it's strange, but it's the way I've always been."

...

"I'm just coming back off an injury," O'Brien said. "I haven't played enough games. [The 2007 invite] just came at the wrong time."

...

"After I went to Juventus, I didn't get called into a couple of [international] U-21 squads. So I sort of stopped worrying about it then," O'Brien says.

"As long as I'm happy and playing [club football] every week, it's good enough for me. I'm not looking for all the accolades or being a big star that comes with being a national team player."

...

"If everything is going well and it's the right time to go and it's a good opportunity, then I'll go no problem," says O'Brien. "But it's not something I lose sleep over."

Was Sadlier making a connection between Noble and O'Brien?