Potentially eligible players thread

[Olé Olé]

Well both are 24 now and would be nowhere near our squad if they were with us, so I don't think we need to concern ourselves about it too much either way.
They would be nowhere near our squad. That is true. I just find it all bit strange how their Irish names and Smyth's gaelic pedigree and Boyd Munce being from West Belfast are all being reported on. Topped off by Smyth's post match interview where he says that the goals meant a lot to them particularly - draw any inference on that because journos and tweeters are.

I find it all a bit mad. They hate the club Rangers but love international side Northern Ireland?

[seanfhear]

They would be nowhere near our squad. That is true. I just find it all bit strange how their Irish names and Smyth's gaelic pedigree and Boyd Munce being from West Belfast are all being reported on. Topped off by Smyth's post match interview where he says that the goals meant a lot to them particularly - draw any inference on that because journos and tweeters are.

I find it all a bit mad. They hate the club Rangers but love international side Northern Ireland?Love might be carrying a lot there ! ! !

[Eirambler]

They would be nowhere near our squad. That is true. I just find it all bit strange how their Irish names and Smyth's gaelic pedigree and Boyd Munce being from West Belfast are all being reported on. Topped off by Smyth's post match interview where he says that the goals meant a lot to them particularly - draw any inference on that because journos and tweeters are.

I find it all a bit mad. They hate the club Rangers but love international side Northern Ireland?

Yeah I don't think there is much "love" there, they just played for them at underage level and would no doubt take any senior caps on offer as well as they're the only ones they're realistically going to get.

[Predator]

It all goes back to the question: is the FAI doing enough to ensure talented players are not lost to other associations? You can be damned sure the IFA is working very hard to dissuade players from switching.

[Olé Olé]

It all goes back to the question: is the FAI doing enough to ensure talented players are not lost to other associations? You can be damned sure the IFA is working very hard to dissuade players from switching.

You'd have to imagine they are not. Anyone that has running anything would appreciate that an organisation would need to be well organised and structured to identify the players, maintain a database of them, initiate communication, periodically follow up with the players and address any concerns or blockers precluding them from throwing their lot in with us. You would require a dedicated unit for all of that. I don't know if the FAI have one or are doing this.

Without knowing the set up, we have had more luck with Derry lads at underage level. Trent Kone Doherty an example. I'm assuming that the Derry lads that play for Ireland land on our laps. Doherty being at Derry City which is intrinsically linked to the football structures of ROI feels like that is how he naturally was able to be available for selection and be selected by us?

[liamoo11]

You'd have to imagine they are not. Anyone that has running anything would appreciate that an organisation would need to be well organised and structured to identify the players, maintain a database of them, initiate communication, periodically follow up with the players and address any concerns or blockers precluding them from throwing their lot in with us. You would require a dedicated unit for all of that. I don't know if the FAI have one or are doing this.

Without knowing the set up, we have had more luck with Derry lads at underage level. Trent Kone Doherty an example. I'm assuming that the Derry lads that play for Ireland land on our laps. Doherty being at Derry City which is intrinsically linked to the football structures of ROI feels like that is how he naturally was able to be available for selection and be selected by us?

Most northern Irish underage sides have lads from Derry City in them. Doherty wanted to play for the republic so he did just like Bradley could have if he wanted to . It's really that simple.

[SkStu]

Another goal for Louie Barry, 15th of the season. Is he heading back to Villa for another loan or no? Thought I saw that mentioned somewhere.

Goal for Ollie O’Neill too. I’ll chuck that in here while I’m at it.

[Eirambler]

Barry will be heading to the Championship in the next few weeks I'd say. A lot of promotion chasing teams will be looking at him and also Cannon, if there is an option to recall Cannon and sell/loan him elsewhere.

[liamoo11]

Another goal for Louie Barry, 15th of the season. Is he heading back to Villa for another loan or no? Thought I saw that mentioned somewhere.

Goal for Ollie O’Neill too. I’ll chuck that in here while I’m at it.

Barry and o Neill were part of a front 3 maybe 8 years ago at this stage for the under 16s in the victory shield with sinclair Armstrong and egN Riley playing defensive midfield(badly) getting overrun by conor Bradley in centre mid for the north

[Predator]

Most northern Irish underage sides have lads from Derry City in them. Doherty wanted to play for the republic so he did just like Bradley could have if he wanted to . It's really that simple.Ultimately it comes down to that choice, no doubt, but I believe that the FAI can and should do more to persuade players. At this point in history, most young players in the north are aware that they have options internationally and various factors feed into their choice - family background, sense of identity, personal relationships and so on. If the IFA (through its coaches et al) is working hard on a personal level with a player and making the case that they will be better served with the IFA, the FAI can't afford to just sit back and hope for the best. In the case of Bradley, who you mention, it's clear that the FAI was too passive and late to the game, whereas the IFA had fashioned a pathway for him as a senior international. Bradley was playing U16 football for Norn Iron in 2018 and by 2021, at the age of 17, he was a senior international. I'm sure the smart people at the FAI have considered this.

[CraftyToePoke]

Via Rep Tracker and the England dual player thread - Josh Acheampong who this season debuted for Chelsea, a right back, is eligible.

The England dual thread on big soccer is always good for a smile if you are having a bad day lads, most of their underage have multiple options so they are in a state of constant mild anguish interspersed by waves of pure panic.

[osarusan]

I'm sure the smart people at the FAI have considered this.

That's probably your mistake right there.

[elatedscum]

My girlfriend is German and she was home for Christmas and came back saying that her father told her he had seen something on tv about a player who had to choose between Ireland and Germany. Presumably it must be Paul Nebel. She couldn’t remember but said the name sounded right.

Not sure if the fact it’s in the public domain there means he’s actively considering switching or if the scrutiny means he’s less likely to slip through the cracks and switch

[Eirambler]

I think Nebel is one we could potentially pick up down the line (they'll all come out of the woodwork if/when we qualify for Euro 2028). But his recent form could be pushing him close to a Germany call up, which is probably our biggest risk with him.

[osarusan]

How many players have we had before whose first language was not English?

[pineapple stu]

Aside from the Derry players?

Probably none at senior level I'd guess?

But MacNulty, Kohlmann, Johansson and others may count at underage?

[elatedscum]

Via Rep Tracker and the England dual player thread - Josh Acheampong who this season debuted for Chelsea, a right back, is eligible.

The England dual thread on big soccer is always good for a smile if you are having a bad day lads, most of their underage have multiple options so they are in a state of constant mild anguish interspersed by waves of pure panic.


Via Rep Tracker and the England dual player thread - Josh Acheampong who this season debuted for Chelsea, a right back, is eligible.

The England dual thread on big soccer is always good for a smile if you are having a bad day lads, most of their underage have multiple options so they are in a state of constant mild anguish interspersed by waves of pure panic.

You’d love him and Harvey Vale from Chelsea, along with Bradshaw at Liverpool. Saw the game against Rovers and Acheampong was excellent. England have so so many right backs, I do think it’s weird that other countries have successfully convinced English capped players to switch and we are going the opposite way. Can’t convince any of Delap, Cirkin, Barry, Dewsbury Hall, Jobe Bellingham, Charlie McNeill. And previously Maddison, Phillips, Gallagher etc.

- Wilf Zaha to Ivory Coast having been fully capped by England
- Lamptey to Ghana as a current England u21
- Anton Robinson to USA having been called up by England u21 at the same window as his first US senior call up
- Balagun to USA as a current England u21 (13 caps, 7 goals)
- Yunus Musia who switched to USA seniors as an England u18, rejecting Southgate’s various approaches as senior manager to convince him to stay
- Matt o’riley to Denmark at u21 level having been an England u18
- Jamal Musiala to Germany as an England u21
- Brennan Johnson to Wales u19, as an England u17
- Felix Nmencha to Germany u21 as an England u19

Also the guys, England failed to recruit: McTominay who rejected them for Scotland, Fabio Carvalho who rejected them for Portugal, Armando Broja who rejected them for Albania - all in comparison to Rice and Grealish…

[elatedscum]

How many players have we had before whose first language was not English?


Aside from the Derry players?

Probably none at senior level I'd guess?

But MacNulty, Kohlmann, Johansson and others may count at underage?

None at senior level unless you count Cheo Ogbene, who moved here at 7 or 8 and picked up the language then. Sean McDermott was called up to the senior squad but wasn’t capped. In terms of underage players, these are who I can think of:

Spain - John Joe Patrick Finn, Aaron Ochoa Maloney, Caden McLoughlin, Anselmo Garcia McNulty, Ramon Martos
France - Tom Gaston
Belgium - Liam Bossin
Netherlands - Barry Maguire
Luxembourg - Ryan Johansson
Germany - Conor Noß, Patrick kohlmann, Aydin Allyev
Norway - Sean McDermott
Denmark - William Martin
Italy - Matteo Egan
Switzerland - Daniel Babb? (I know he arrived in Ireland as an u15 from Switzerland, nothing else)

[Eirambler]

You’d love him and Harvey Vale from Chelsea, along with Bradshaw at Liverpool. Saw the game against Rovers and Acheampong was excellent. England have so so many right backs, I do think it’s weird that other countries have successfully convinced English capped players to switch and we are going the opposite way. Can’t convince any of Delap, Cirkin, Barry, Dewsbury Hall, Jobe Bellingham, Charlie McNeill. And previously Maddison, Phillips, Gallagher etc.

- Wilf Zaha to Ivory Coast having been fully capped by England
- Lamptey to Ghana as a current England u21
- Anton Robinson to USA having been called up by England u21 at the same window as his first US senior call up
- Balagun to USA as a current England u21 (13 caps, 7 goals)
- Yunus Musia who switched to USA seniors as an England u18, rejecting Southgate’s various approaches as senior manager to convince him to stay
- Matt o’riley to Denmark at u21 level having been an England u18
- Jamal Musiala to Germany as an England u21
- Brennan Johnson to Wales u19, as an England u17
- Felix Nmencha to Germany u21 as an England u19



I think this is all down to tournament qualifications. Most of those teams are serial qualifiers for major tournaments, and many have a much easier qualification path compared to us. The only exception is probably Johnson to Wales, who are a less safe bet for qualifications , but he declared for them at a time when they've been qualifying for tournaments at least semi-regularly.

If we start qualifying again, players will appear that we don't even know are eligible - just look at what happened with the women's team before the World Cup.

Even without the qualifications we've captured a number of players in the last year who would have had other options - Cannon, McGuinness, Szmodics, Azaz, McAteer. It will be a few years before we know how that group turns out for us. Hopefully we can confirm Vata next.

I see this as very important because the standard of what we've produced ourselves since the Brexit rules came in is worrying to say the least, and there's no quick fix for that other than sending more young players to continental.Europe, which is far from ideal.

[SkStu]

Aside from the Derry players?

Probably none at senior level I'd guess?

But MacNulty, Kohlmann, Johansson and others may count at underage?

John Aldridge?

[Olé Olé]

I think this is all down to tournament qualifications. Most of those teams are serial qualifiers for major tournaments, and many have a much easier qualification path compared to us. The only exception is probably Johnson to Wales, who are a less safe bet for qualifications , but he declared for them at a time when they've been qualifying for tournaments at least semi-regularly.

If we start qualifying again, players will appear that we don't even know are eligible - just look at what happened with the women's team before the World Cup.

Even without the qualifications we've captured a number of players in the last year who would have had other options - Cannon, McGuinness, Szmodics, Azaz, McAteer. It will be a few years before we know how that group turns out for us. Hopefully we can confirm Vata next.

I see this as very important because the standard of what we've produced ourselves since the Brexit rules came in is worrying to say the least, and there's no quick fix for that other than sending more young players to continental.Europe, which is far from ideal.

Delap looks like the England number 9 in the making. He will surely be called up within the next couple of squad announcements.

Our main hope here was his father trying to come good on his assertion that his kids would play for Ireland and trying to push him into representing us. However, you'd think he could have pushed him into this at a younger age if either Liam or Rory were that interested after all. He stated in 2021 that he "would never put pressure on him (Liam) to make a choice either way."

Rory was part of Robbie Keane's coaching staff in Israel so must be an ally of Robbie. Not sure how receptive he'd have been recently to a call from the FAI.

There have surely been other England players with fathers that represented other countries? There are a good instances of a divergence across England, Wales and Scotland.

I don't think Angel Gomes's father won a senior cap for Portugal (but he was on a strong underage side with their golden generation) but Callum Hudson Odoi's father may have done for Ghana. They never got the benefit of Erling Haaland, thankfully, but he spent much of his formative years in Norway anyway.

For Wales, Ethan Ampadu's father played for Ireland underage before Ethan plumped for Wales - where he wasn't born and hasn't really lived I don't believe. Similar point for Brennan Johnson but his father (David) played for Jamaica.

Bryan Gunn's son Angus held out as long as he could for an England cap before representing the country that his father did, Scotland.

[elatedscum]

Delap looks like the England number 9 in the making. He will surely be called up within the next couple of squad announcements.

Our main hope here was his father trying to come good on his assertion that his kids would play for Ireland and trying to push him into representing us. However, you'd think he could have pushed him into this at a younger age if either Liam or Rory were that interested after all. He stated in 2021 that he "would never put pressure on him (Liam) to make a choice either way."

Rory was part of Robbie Keane's coaching staff in Israel so must be an ally of Robbie. Not sure how receptive he'd have been recently to a call from the FAI.

There have surely been other England players with fathers that represented other countries? There are a good instances of a divergence across England, Wales and Scotland.

I don't think Angel Gomes's father won a senior cap for Portugal (but he was on a strong underage side with their golden generation) but Callum Hudson Odoi's father may have done for Ghana. They never got the benefit of Erling Haaland, thankfully, but he spent much of his formative years in Norway anyway.

For Wales, Ethan Ampadu's father played for Ireland underage before Ethan plumped for Wales - where he wasn't born and hasn't really lived I don't believe. Similar point for Brennan Johnson but his father (David) played for Jamaica.

Bryan Gunn's son Angus held out as long as he could for an England cap before representing the country that his father did, Scotland.

Kasper Schmeichel rejected England for Denmark.

Did they ever chase Gio Reyna? I don’t remember it being public if they did

[tetsujin1979]

Reyna was first capped by the US in a friendly against Wales the day before he turned 18. Would the rules at the time have ruled him out for England?

[samhaydenjr]

I thought we'd established that Delap is no longer eligible, as he has played competitive underage internationals for England since he turned 21

[Eirambler]

He is as it stands, but there's talk of that rule getting changed. The rule currently rules out Nebel also.

[elatedscum]

I thought we'd established that Delap is no longer eligible, as he has played competitive underage internationals for England since he turned 21


He is as it stands, but there's talk of that rule getting changed. The rule currently rules out Nebel also.

We actually don’t know that. If Delap was registered on the foreign birth’s register by 23rd of March 2022, then he’s still eligible.

For Nebel, the date is 20th of March 2019.

Source: p30 if they are on the foreign birth’s register then they’re 9-2a players - if not, they’re 9-2b players

https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/ccab990abf45fcf6/original/ro8mje8vw98yp3rvfbmi-pdf.pdf

[Demesne Lad]

Harley O'Grady-Macken (20) was on the Blackburn Rovers' bench for the third time yesterday. Transfermarkt suggests he is eligible for Ireland.

[seanfhear]

Time for the FAI to get on their bike and have a word !

[Eirambler]

Neil O'Riordan has a piece on Nebel tomorrow that might be interesting. Interestingly he has posted on Twitter that the rule about competitive underage caps tying players is no longer in operation - apparently he was told by a source at FIFA. So the likes of Delap and Nebel remain untied to their countries of birth. Similarly there is now no way for us to tie someone like Vata, Umeh or Orazi through underage caps.

Players can therefore now only be tied through competitive senior caps.

[samhaydenjr]

Neil O'Riordan has a piece on Nebel tomorrow that might be interesting. Interestingly he has posted on Twitter that the rule about competitive underage caps tying players is no longer in operation - apparently he was told by a source at FIFA. So the likes of Delap and Nebel remain untied to their countries of birth. Similarly there is now no way for us to tie someone like Vata, Umeh or Orazi through underage caps.

Players can therefore now only be tied through competitive senior caps.

You know, I think that's how it should be - it doesn't feel right that a 19-year-old at the start of an U21 qualifying campaign should have to be thinking about whether successfully making the finals two years later will cut off avenues for a senior international career.

But even if this does make Delap eligible again, I think we're just putting off the inevitable - it's clear his preferred pathway is to the England senior team and, based on his form this season, he's close to the end of that pathway. He'll likely make his competitive debut for England this year.

[Eirambler]

I agree. Delap won't be playing for Ireland.

[Thewhitepele]

You know, I think that's how it should be - it doesn't feel right that a 19-year-old at the start of an U21 qualifying campaign should have to be thinking about whether successfully making the finals two years later will cut off avenues for a senior international career.

But even if this does make Delap eligible again, I think we're just putting off the inevitable - it's clear his preferred pathway is to the England senior team and, based on his form this season, he's close to the end of that pathway. He'll likely make his competitive debut for England this year.

Call me old fashioned but I think I prefer the old days where any competitive cap tied you at any age group (I think it may have excluded school boys but could be wrong)

The ever changing new rules are supposed to be fairer but to be honest I think small countries like Ireland lose more than we gain.

I also think it makes a mockery of international football. We have had an increase of brothers playing against each other and it just feels like the transfer system of club football.This was really brought home to me a couple of years ago when I went to an underage game were Phil Neville's son was in the Ireland squad. I don't know anything about him but he fails the gut test miserably. This is just denies another Irish lad a chance. Having said that in a world of no switching I could get on board with any player who staked their future to Ireland knowing their was no turning back, even the likes of Phil Neville's son.

[Olé Olé]

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/14507631/bundesliga-mainz-paul-nebel-germany-ireland/

Well, if anyone was seeking a commitment either way from Nebel they thought wrong. A likely German cap until he's not.

[Olé Olé]

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/14507631/bundesliga-mainz-paul-nebel-germany-ireland/

Well, if anyone was seeking a commitment either way from Nebel they thought wrong. A likely German cap until he's not.
https://www.thesun.ie/sport/14507806/ireland-paul-nebel-germany-heimir-hallgrimsson/

They have quotes in a separate article. Nebel leaves it very open.

[Eirambler]

Yeah, he'll keep the Germany option open for a couple of years I'd say before he gives up on it. If it becomes clear we'll be playing at Euro 2028 and they haven't capped him by then, the cynic in me says he'll commit to us at that point as he'll be 25 by then.

[SkStu]

He went off for Mainz after 37’ today. The mention of a potential Irish career has put the injury hex on him probably.

[rebelmusic]

HH and O'Shea at the Burnley-Sunderland game. Cirkin, O'Riley and Bellingham all playing and all eligible.

https://www.balls.ie/football/presence-of-heimir-at-sunderland-game-has-ireland-fans-wondering-about-new-prospects-620610

[Eirambler]

Would have to imagine Cirkin is the player they're scouting in particular. Bellingham won't play for us anytime soon (probably ever) and Egan Riley would struggle to make our squad.

[samhaydenjr]

Call me old fashioned but I think I prefer the old days where any competitive cap tied you at any age group (I think it may have excluded school boys but could be wrong)

The ever changing new rules are supposed to be fairer but to be honest I think small countries like Ireland lose more than we gain.

I also think it makes a mockery of international football. We have had an increase of brothers playing against each other and it just feels like the transfer system of club football.This was really brought home to me a couple of years ago when I went to an underage game were Phil Neville's son was in the Ireland squad. I don't know anything about him but he fails the gut test miserably. This is just denies another Irish lad a chance. Having said that in a world of no switching I could get on board with any player who staked their future to Ireland knowing their was no turning back, even the likes of Phil Neville's son.

While I understand your primary opinion about integrity of international football, I actually don't think the current system has worked against us. If players were tied to an international team based on underage appearances, it wouldn't have meant that we would have kept Grealish and Rice - they probably would not have lined out underage for us. Meanwhile, the current system has allowed us to pick up Ciaran Clark, Callum Robinson, Kasey McAteer, Will Keane, Mikey Johnston, Shane Duffy, Mark Sykes and James McClean (admittedly the switch of the three NI lads possibly supports your view of a negative affect on smaller nations) .

[EalingGreen]

The ever changing new rules are supposed to be fairer but to be honest I think small countries like Ireland lose more than we gain.Not so in the case of NT's in Africa (esp), who have loads of players from France and Belgium (also from UK and Germany, to an extent).

Indeed it was African Federations (esp Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia I believe), who lobbied FIFA to ease the rules governing switching.

Two random examples: Mbuemo and Wissa, currently tearing it up in the PL with Brentford, play for Cameroon and Congo, despite both having been born in France and coming up through French youth football. Indeed Mbuemo played up to U-21 level for France. While switching is more desirable than ever, what with non-European countries having increased places in the World Cup Finals, along with the development and increased profile of AFCON.

[tetsujin1979]

They've lost players due to the rule change too, Nacer Chadli had a Moroccan cap before switching to Belgium

[Eirambler]

We definitely don't lose more than we gain. In fact - other than the odd player born in the north playing for the north - I can't think of any Irish born player that would have been of value to us choosing another country. Whereas we've benefitted from loads of grandparent qualifying players coming in to play for us.

I know this will probably change in future, but (again leaving aside the position in terms of the north) any players of note we've "lost" weren't actually born or developed here to begin with. I think some people take the wrong view on someone like Declan Rice playing for England. He is, after all, English (though he shouldn't have taken senior Ireland caps if he wasn't fully committed). Similarly now with Vata, if we can confirm him with us that's fantastic, if he decides to go elsewhere then that's him making his own personal choice, he wasn't developed in Ireland after all.

[Jolly Red Giant]

While I understand your primary opinion about integrity of international football, I actually don't think the current system has worked against us. If players were tied to an international team based on underage appearances, it wouldn't have meant that we would have kept Grealish and Rice - they probably would not have lined out underage for us. Meanwhile, the current system has allowed us to pick up Ciaran Clark, Callum Robinson, Kasey McAteer, Will Keane, Mikey Johnston, Shane Duffy, Mark Sykes and James McClean (admittedly the switch of the three NI lads possibly supports your view of a negative affect on smaller nations) .
This happens with every country that has a large diaspora - it also happens in the opposite direction with Imperial countries exploiting their colonial dependancies.

France 1998 world cup squad
Bernard Lama - born in France to parents from French Guyana and move there shortly after his birth.
Patrick Vieira - Senegal
Marcel Desailly - Ghana
Lilian Thuram - Guadeloupe
Christian Karembeu - New Caledonia
David Trezeguet - born in France to Argentinian parents and grew up in Argentina (Spanish is his first language)
and
Thierry Henry - born in France - parents from Guadeloupe and Martinique
Bernard Diomède - born in France - parents from Guadeloupe
Zinedine Zidane - born in France - parents from Algeria
Bixente Lizarazu and Didier Deschamps are both Basque.

Similarly with the Dutch team from the same competition
Clarence Seedorf - Suriname
Edgar Davids - Suriname
Aron Winter - Suriname
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink - Suriname
Michael Reiziger - born Holland - parents from Suriname
Patrick Kluivert - born Holland - father from Suriname, mother from Curacao
Winston - born Holland - parents from Suriname

Then you have others going the opposite way - Jamaica from 1998 WC
Andy Williams - Canada
Fitzroy Simpson, Marcus Gayle, Robbie Earle, Dean Burton, Frank Sinclair, Darryl Powell, Paul Hall - all born in England.

There are swings and roundabouts in all of this - for decades Ireland never had any players not born in Ireland. The great 1949 team that beat England at Goodison were all born in Ireland - indeed the first player to represent Ireland who was born outside the country was Shay Brennan in 1965 (born in Manchester). By the 1980s a significant portion of the squad was born outside the country (reflecting the significant emigration to England in the 1950s and early 1960s).

Now Ireland is benefiting from immigration. We could easily field a team of players born in Ireland for whom at least one parent was born in another country - Gavin Bazunu, Festy Ebosele, Andrew Omobamidele, Bosun Lawal, Adam Idah, Chiedozie Ogbene (born in Nigeria), Michael Obafemi, James Abankwah, David Okagbue, Gabriel Otegbayo (all eligible to play for Nigeria except Abankwah - Ghana).

As you point out - we have benefitted more than we have lost - although that might start to change in the near future.

[Fixer82]

I've no issue with the rules of International soccer eligibility. It has served us well. And us losing some players is fine also. That's just the rules.

If you have a grandparent or parent born on the island or you were raised in Ireland yourself, having not been born here, I think that's ok.
Ogbene being a case in point. Not born here but came here as a child and grew up in our system.
Obafemi also. He was born here to Nigerian parents before they moved to England. I think that's absolutely fine.

It's totally different from the rugby which is a system that is totally abused by the rich rugby nations like ourselves, NZ, England, France etc.
There were players playing for Ireland in the last World Cup that didn't even have Irish citizenship. Joke!

[Eirambler]

All international rugby players qualifying through residence have to have been resident in the country for at least five years now, so I don't think those rules are any different to football now in that respect. Similar to Eduardo playing for Croatia or Pepe for Portugal.

Where rugby differs is that it's more flexible with switching, I wouldn't be surprised if their more flexible switching rules are brought into football at some point at the request of African associations (e.g. player X won 15 caps for Belgium but hasn't been picked for five years, so could switch to Morocco etc.). Not sure how comfortable I'd be with that even though it would probably benefit us hugely.

[Fixer82]

All international rugby players qualifying through residence have to have been resident in the country for at least five years now, so I don't think those rules are any different to football now in that respect. Similar to Eduardo playing for Croatia or Pepe for Portugal.

Where rugby differs is that it's more flexible with switching, I wouldn't be surprised if their more flexible switching rules are brought into football at some point at the request of African associations (e.g. player X won 15 caps for Belgium but hasn't been picked for five years, so could switch to Morocco etc.). Not sure how comfortable I'd be with that even though it would probably benefit us hugely.


The real problem with rugby is associations cynically giving players contracts with a view to them becoming naturalised. And of course, they don't even need to become naturalised to play for the country. Gibson Parks only became an Irish citizen 6 or so months ago I think.

For example, the IRFU like the look of CJ Stander so Leinster give him a contract and within a few years he's Irish. If Glasgow gave him a contract he'd be Scottish.
When in fact, he's neither.
This is not the faultiest of the players, it's the fault of the IRB.

It only favours the rich rugby nations. Developing rugby nations like Georgia, Romania, Portugal, Russia etc will never be able to afford giving a good contract to a player from abroad to make them 'one of their own'. For me, it stinks!

I would hate to see it coming in to soccer on a large scale. There have been cases of players playing for countries they've been resident in. Diego Costa springs to mind. But they weren't brought to that country for the bigger picture of them eventually playing for that country.

[John83]

The petrostates would love that. Not that they're above giving Brazilians passports as it is.

[pineapple stu]

Qatar had some players like that in their World Cup squad. It's ridiculous - signing players for club teams just to get them onto the national team. Granted in most cases they seem to be players who wouldn't get a game with their own country so it's not as if the other country is losing out. But still - feck that.

[EalingGreen]

The petrostates would love that. Not that they're above giving Brazilians passports as it is.Actually the "game-changer" (sorry) which led to the many changes to eligibility rules dates from 2004, when Qatar cynically gave passports, and therefore eligibility, to three Brazilians, so as to be able to cap them. These guys, probably from poor backgrounds, were good enough to improve the Qatari team, even if they were never going to get capped for Brazil. (Togo and Cape Verde had also been at it, or were planning to.)

Following complaints from many countries, FIFA brought in an emergency ban on such practices:
"Fifa's emergency committee ruled on Wednesday that players must have a "clear connection to that country" if they wished to wear the colours of a nation other than the one of their birth.
The rules now state a player must either have lived in a country for at least two years, or have a parent or grandparent who was born there."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/africa/3523266.stm

This caused FIFA to look for a more permanent solution, which enshrined residential and ancestry requirements in order to secure eligibility, since tweaked many times. One key element was that Qatar had been granting Nationality to (otherwise unconnected) players, then withdrawing it again once they retired from playing, so FIFA specified that the Nationality in question must be "permanent".

Which was how ROI/FAI benefited pretty much uniquely in being able to cap players from another country (NI) without any of the usual residential/ancestral requirements, since permanent Irish Nationality is automatically accorded to all people from NI from birth. I say "uniquely", since other countries guard their citizenship closely, with all sorts of hoops to jump through, seeing as that citizenship also beings with it various benefits (voting, pensions, residence etc). Nationality laws are also a means of controlling immigration* etc. However with the Irish situation, Dublin granted few if any benefits, other than the right to give them €90 for a Passport in return for a warm, fuzzy feeling etc, effectively making it a "free hit", while making a purely political point against a neighbour. (Post-Brexit benefits are bestowed by the EU.). And in turn, the FAI has been able to benefit from something which had never anything to do with football.

Anyhow, when you look at how these eligibility rules have panned out, there can be little doubt that ROI/FAI have been a net beneficiary from the various amendments previously, then and since, including outwith the NI situation.


* - The only other exception I can think of which might (emphasise) compare with the ROI/NI situation is Israel(!), which will grant Nationality to pretty much anyone who is Jewish, even when they've not had any actual connection with that part of the world for hundreds of years. And as well as suiting that state's ethos, and "proving" a political point, it also serves to boost immigration, which is valuable to them. Ironically, Robbie Keane could never get an Israeli passport, unless he could find a Jewish grandma from somewhere!

[Eirambler]

The real problem with rugby is associations cynically giving players contracts with a view to them becoming naturalised. And of course, they don't even need to become naturalised to play for the country. Gibson Parks only became an Irish citizen 6 or so months ago I think.

For example, the IRFU like the look of CJ Stander so Leinster give him a contract and within a few years he's Irish. If Glasgow gave him a contract he'd be Scottish.
When in fact, he's neither.
This is not the faultiest of the players, it's the fault of the IRB.


Those rugby examples were all back when the rule was three years residency. It was increased to five years to stop that happening and the change seems to have worked.