Séamus Coleman (D Everton b.1988)

[tricky_colour]

What stats sites though, is what I'm asking. Stats sites are just estimates with dubious legitimacy.

This one, OK it's from FIFA 13 but here is no reason to believe it is not as valid as any other stat site
indeed it might be more valid. Not sure how it is compiled but it has a lot of detailed stats and I am sure if they
were significantly wrong a lot of the players would complain.

http://www.futhead.com/fifa/nations/irelandrepublic/

[tricky_colour]

Could have sworn I clicked on the Seamus Coleman thread..

SkStu seems to have mentioned him first the Yard_of_pace and it seems to have snowballed from there!!!

But I have never been too keen on having just player threads myself because people tend to discuss thing in context, in
this case the Everton team. But try telling that to the mods :D

[SkStu]

it wasnt me. It was Noelys Guitar and it snowballed from there.

http://foot.ie/threads/111276-Seamus-Coleman?p=1670504&viewfull=1#post1670504

I didnt get involved until 10 posts later.

[paul_oshea]

I'm fond of the term 'quarterback' for players like Gibson, and I believe it's the type of player he aspires to (if he's not already in that mould).

The type of player who dictates the point of attack, can spot weaknesses in the option from the relative distance of their own third or half and, crucially, speed up or slow down the tempo depending on what's required using quickfire decision making and great passing technique to exploit holes in the opposition.

Even Gibson in his more maligned appearances in a green shirt demanded the ball short (often from the full-back or keeper) and looked to play the ball out from deep. Likewise under Everton he demands possession and looks to probe forward more often than not. It clearly makes a difference to Everton's creative tempo.

I don't think it's right to say he's simply playing crab passes - a player like Neil Lennon was great at retaining possession but he did nothing going forward. Gibson makes a difference to Everton's attacking play because he has the ability to quickly change the point of attack, like a fly-half seeking space in behind or out wide with a quick grubber or flat pass.

Not saying Gibson's there yet, a better example would be Alonso or Pirlo who's a master of this type - just arguing that's how he looks to play.

He'd be 'creative' in my thinking, though he's certainly ain't a Sneijder or Mata. Having said that I'd argue Gibson did show some of that kind of creativity when he got a run at Utd further forward although not on a consistent basis.

Id agree with you on most of this, in their respective codes fly halves and quarter backs, especially the latter, are seen as the creative spark. You finished by saying "creative", which I would also agree with, but that kinda puts him in the creative midfielder camp which CD believes not to be correct.

I would certainly see Gibson as a creative player, passive-aggressive type, rather than an out and out creative flair type.

[tricky_colour]

it wasnt me. It was Noelys Guitar and it snowballed from there.

http://foot.ie/threads/111276-Seamus-Coleman?p=1670504&viewfull=1#post1670504

I didn't get involved until 10 posts later.

Actually the rot set in a lot earlier than that.

http://foot.ie/search.php?searchid=2555195


It seems co. down green mentioned him as early as post #73 in 2009

http://foot.ie/threads/111276-Seamus-Coleman?p=1287152&viewfull=1#post1287152

And note the post before that from BradyIsMyHero


Seamie Coleman was superb for Everton v AEK Athens

definitely the next Ireland right full

It's interesting reading the thread form the start, even then the consensus was he had a bright future.

[geysir]

It's interesting reading the thread form the start, even then the consensus was he had a bright future.
It's a consensus, if you include that he has a charmed life as part of that bright future, with his ability to get away with (supposed) blatant blue murder in the penalty box.

[Charlie Darwin]

Holding midfielder - whatever that is.

I don't think the term "creative" is that inappropriate for Gibson. He's not a Modric type player or even a Hoolahan, but he is a player who passes the ball elegantly and with good vision in all areas of the pitch. Whereas the type of player I suspect CD calls creative is a player who excels in the final third, I think Gibson is probably more at home in his own defensive third and central third. That doesn't consign him to that accursed definition "holding midfielder" though, in my opinion.

McCarthy was very much in the box-to-box mould in yesterday's game
A holding midfielder is a midfielder who holds his position, it's in the name. It means he only ever moves with play and is rarely if ever ahead of the ball. That is an accurate summation of Gibson's style of play, in my opinion. Disagree on McCarthy too, he made a conscious effort to stay behind the play with the exception of a couple of notable runs. I don't think it's a slight on either's ability - they're both very effective and vital to their teams.


This one, OK it's from FIFA 13 but here is no reason to believe it is not as valid as any other stat site
indeed it might be more valid. Not sure how it is compiled but it has a lot of detailed stats and I am sure if they
were significantly wrong a lot of the players would complain.

http://www.futhead.com/fifa/nations/irelandrepublic/
Why not just use your own judgement?

It's a consensus, if you include that he has a charmed life as part of that bright future, with his ability to get away with (supposed) blatant blue murder in the penalty box.
The golfer Gary Player is quoted as saying "the more I practice, the luckier I get." I have often wondered if Coleman practices getting away with blatant shoves in the box. Perhaps he and Fellaini hang back after training.

[SkStu]

I think the problem is how narrowly you define creativity CD. Most others acknowledge there is a creative element to his game even if he is not playing in your archetypal creative position.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm not saying he totally lacks creativity - he is more creative than many other players - but there are "creative" players and there are players with creative attributes. I don't think Gibson is the former, whereas I do think somebody like Gerrard is.

[tricky_colour]

Why not just use your own judgement?




Well I did initially I said I didn't think he was particularly creative, however I was not too sure as I had not
seen a great deal of him playing. He has only played a few games for Ireland and a lot of them I watched on
streams where it's not that easy to pick put players plus we don't really play a creative central midfield game.
Not really followed him much at Everton either, normally watching Coleman.
My main idea of him was his ability to shoot from midfield, that was the over riding impression I had of him, I didn't
have much of a view either way on his creativity until it was mentioned here. I guess I thought he was slightly more
creative than Whelan and he was 80 v 79. But both higher than I expected, but I think maybe my idea of
creativity is different to the one being used, I was thinking more of individual creativity more than say something like play making.

[osarusan]

Just caught some of "デイリーサッカーニューズFOOT!", or "Daily soccer news foot(ball)", in which this guy (http://mabley.footballjapan.co.uk/) and some Japanese anchor were discussing the Everton Man City game, and in particular the performance of Coleman. They mentioned his first sport of Gaelic football (although the picture was actually compromise rules), talking about the round ball, the fact that you can use your hands and take some steps with the ball. There was another picture of some GAA ground I didn't recognise, along with the comment that this was his main sport until he was 18. No mention of Sligo, sadly (though they may have mentioned something like 'domestic club', and I just didn't pick it up).

Coleman can now say he is 'big in Japan.'

[SwanVsDalton]

Next stop - mega endorsement deals. Whiskey, menswear, watches - the lot.

[geysir]

At this rate, Seamus can surely cover both the RB and the RM roles, leaving Trap with an extra option.

[Crosby87]

Seamus and James McCarthy playing darts:

http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/video-seamus-coleman-takes-on-james-mccarthy-in-joes-flick-darts-challenge-0035706-1

[Launch_it]

I thought Coleman was one of our better players tonight!

[Duggie]

one thing about coleman, hes a really good player but i always feel hes going to give away a penalty or make a mistake. could he be used better on the right wing seen as hes such a good attacker.

[BonnieShels]

Possibly but tehn we have to use someone more untrustworthy at RB. And then drop McClean or McGeady etc.

[Charlie Darwin]

one thing about coleman, hes a really good player but i always feel hes going to give away a penalty or make a mistake. could he be used better on the right wing seen as hes such a good attacker.
The subject of Coleman's liability to give away penalties has been extensively examined in this thread and the conclusion was that he is blessed with superhuman luck and this doesn't give away penalties.

[redobit]

The subject of Coleman's liability to give away penalties has been extensively examined in this thread and the conclusion was that he is blessed with superhuman luck and this doesn't give away penalties.

From watching him with Everton and in the game last night he seems to have become a little smarter/ more experienced on when to tackle or not. He has also improved in drawing fouls when in posession. Defensively his game has improved this season.

[tommy_c12000]

Outstanding tonight by all accounts. Anyone see the game??

[IsMiseSean]

He was superb. Thought he might have got MOTM but Davie Provan gave it to Jagielka.

[Olé Olé]

Excellent defensive performance. Quite not as vibrant going forward but there was one or two blocks and a fantastic piece of defensive positioning which forced Giroud to fowl him. He's looking assured in that defence.

[Crosby87]

He was superb. Thought he might have got MOTM but Davie Provan gave it to Jagielka.

He wins the one that counts, on Toffee Talk by 2 votes :D
http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/25013-man-of-the-match-v-arsenal/

[geysir]

Yes, he was very good, but outstanding might be over egging it, Everton are not an outstanding team, neither were Arsenal.
Coleman didn't give away a penalty all game.

There was a hell of a lot of rushing around out there, Everton look a fit team and are well able for that. I'd say Moyes has them running up sand dunes all week.

[Olé Olé]

Yes, he was very good, but outstanding might be over egging it, Everton are not an outstanding team, neither were Arsenal.
Coleman didn't give away a penalty all game.

There was a hell of a lot of rushing around out there, Everton look a fit team and are well able for that. I'd say Moyes has them running up sand dunes all week.

Everton don't need to be an outstanding. Arsenal are a very good side and he marked Santi Cazorla; a Spanish international and an outstanding player.

[tricky_colour]

Seamus and James McCarthy playing darts:

http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/video-seamus-coleman-takes-on-james-mccarthy-in-joes-flick-darts-challenge-0035706-1

Neither of them looks particularly coordinated, if they were finishing on a double they would be there all night.

[DeLorean]

Yes, he was very good, but outstanding might be over egging it, Everton are not an outstanding team, neither were Arsenal.

I only saw the second half but I thought he was, very definitely, outstanding. Clearance of the match to stop a certain goal, nicked the ball from Arteta in the box near the end, countless blocks from crosses and outpaced Ramsey at one stage even though Ramsey had a sizable head start. In terms of a defensive full back performance I thought he was really excellent.

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, and he was. Very accomplished player, almost Dani Alves-like in how much time he spent in Arsenal's half, and even deep in Arsenal's half. It was a cracking game actually.

[Stuttgart88]

There was a hell of a lot of rushing around out there, Everton look a fit team and are well able for that. I'd say Moyes has them running up sand dunes all week.
Given that some mocked Moyes' style in the Trap Out thread I was thinking of posting last night how well I thought Everton used the ball. For large chunks of that game they played better football than Arsenal.

[hoops1]

Have to say I thought Coleman was outstanding. I thought he was MOTM. Much better than Jagielka.

[BonnieShels]

I only saw the second half but I thought he was, very definitely, outstanding. Clearance of the match to stop a certain goal, nicked the ball from Arteta in the box near the end, countless blocks from crosses and outpaced Ramsey at one stage even though Ramsey had a sizable head start. In terms of a defensive full back performance I thought he was really excellent.

That was something else. The SSN highlights reel had a lot of Seamie on it.

[Bungle]

Seamus is going to be an outstanding player in a few years. I think he would not look out of place in any team in the Premiership and he is only going to get better.

[geysir]

Given that some mocked Moyes' style in the Trap Out thread I was thinking of posting last night how well I thought Everton used the ball. For large chunks of that game they played better football than Arsenal.
Without doubt though, this is the poorest Arsenal team in Wenger's reign, we only saw a glimpse of the one touch counterattack from Arsenal which just needed a better finish. Moyes got everything spot on and got every ounce of commitment from his players. It's a pity that Everton are not closer to the CL positions because that 4th spot is there for the taking and Moyes has a gritty team with some skill in that space where both the cash and challenge of the CL could be the thing to move the club up a notch or two.

[Olé Olé]

The benefits of playing in a back four alongside Jagielka, Distin and Baines are becoming pretty clear. He's obviously receiving great tutelage and support. His covering, positioning and passing were all excellent last night. Clark would be another to benefit greatly from the experience in that back four.

A very good game of football too, even though the onion bags remained untouched.

[geysir]

Baines with the locks and hairstyle has the look of a player from the 1970's.

[tricky_colour]

Given that some mocked Moyes' style in the Trap Out thread I was thinking of posting last night how well I thought Everton used the ball. For large chunks of that game they played better football than Arsenal.


Although I don't see a lot of them and even then I am mainly looking out for Coleman, I do think they play some pretty decent football,
they have players who like to get forward and they pass it about a bit not just lump it forward.

[tricky_colour]

Baines with the locks and hairstyle has the look of a player from the 1970's.

Yes, he was one of the players I was thinking about when I made my last post, I am sure as Coleman
progresses his locks and hair style will too. It's all in the hairstyle really with Fellaini right up there at the top.

Coleman is the highest rated Irish player by some distance in the stats I look at, at no 64
He is developing into a top class player.

[SkStu]

Coleman named Evertons Player of the Month for March. Well done Seamie!

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2013/04/18/coleman-collects-monthly-award

In other news, on his player page, his sponsor is one Sean Connor....it couldn't be, could it....?

http://www.evertonfc.com/player-profile/seamus-coleman

[SkStu]

A beautiful, beautiful, beautiful passage of play from Everton eventually see Coleman pull it back for Pienaar to sweep home. Quality goal.


No Gibson today. Injured.

[tricky_colour]

Dam was watching Norwich V Stoke, knew I would pick the wrong game, got both on now though, Hope they will show the goal at half time.

Worst thing is I was only watching to see Hoolahan and I just realised he is not on the pitch. The commentator was talking about hi thought and I thought he was playing only just realised he isn't.

[Crosby87]

Colemans Everton fans are calling themselves
The Colemaniacs. Kinda lame.

[SkStu]

Colemanic Street Preachers.

[elroy]

Glen Johnson has had a decent season and perhaps Walker at Spurs but in my biased opinion, I reckon he would be a good shout for best RB in the EPL this year.

[Crosby87]

Who votes for things like that these days? Get the ball rolling Elroy.

[Olé Olé]

Glen Johnson has had a decent season and perhaps Walker at Spurs but in my biased opinion, I reckon he would be a good shout for best RB in the EPL this year.

Rafael was excellent too. Coleman had a very good season. His work ethic is raved about and the fruits of his labour showed this season, in relation to criticism regarding his defensive ability. I'm looking forward to further improvement next season which really would be something.

I think he is nailed on RB for Ireland. And Wilson at left back too. O'Shea at centre-half with Dunne would be lovely to see again but not quite likely at present.

[nigel-harps1954]

Seamus Coleman should be regarded as undroppable at this stage. He's the only Champions League quality player we have left, and the only player in the squad (maybe Shane Long too) who could stake a claim for a place in a top 4 team.

[Colbert Report]

Seamus Coleman should be regarded as undroppable at this stage. He's the only Champions League quality player we have left, and the only player in the squad (maybe Shane Long too) who could stake a claim for a place in a top 4 team.

I think James McCarthy is our best player. Coleman and Long don't even start for their club teams every week.

[Charlie Darwin]

Yes they do.

[Stuttgart88]

Good article here on Everton (posted in 3 sections due to length), with a bit on Coleman. No marks for guessing which bit Stu is going to get narked by :)

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/2fa7ef1e-b2c0-11e2-8540-00144feabdc0.html#slide0

Everton: how the blues made good

By Simon Kuper


Year after year, Everton outperform much richer and starrier football clubs. Simon Kuper went to Goodison Park to find out why

On the night 11 years ago when Everton last sacked their manager, I happened to be in Madrid interviewing an Everton fan. Steve McManaman, the slender Liverpudlian winger, had risen with Everton’s local rivals Liverpool before joining Real Madrid. That night in 2002, “Macca” was at his zenith. Two months later he would win his second Champions League with Real. But over a beer in a hotel bar just down the road from the giant Bernabeu stadium, still buzzing after helping Real outclass Sparta Prague earlier that evening, he could only talk about one thing: struggling Everton. An inveterate user of his mobile, Macca had just heard that his beloved club had sacked Walter Smith. “I feel for him,” said McManaman. “As a manager you’re only as good as your material. They lost 3-0 last weekend – three personal errors.” What could Smith do without good players?

Macca knew that Everton were headhunting a lower-division manager named David Moyes. From the sofa, he rang a friend at the club to gossip. Then he chuckled wryly: “Why would Moyes go there? Everton are going down. He’s got a better chance of going up with Preston.”

When the burly, rather fearsome-looking Scotsman Moyes took the job in 2002, Everton did look a hopeless case. They were – and are – the second club of England’s poorest city.

No sheikh or oligarch will fund them. Their 121-year-old stadium, Goodison Park, has little scope for VIP boxes, and there aren’t many corporations in Liverpool to hire them anyway. But Moyes – still at Everton today – has turned the club around. Year after year, Everton finish above much richer clubs, including, deliciously, their local rivals Liverpool, whom they visit this Sunday. Everton currently stand sixth in the Premier League, one spot above Liverpool.

They overachieve largely because of their intelligence. Their success suggests that other clubs aren’t using enough brainpower.

One Monday morning in March I visited Everton’s training ground Finch Farm, on Liverpool’s semi-rural outskirts. Two days earlier Everton had beaten Manchester City, possibly the world’s richest club, yet there weren’t hordes of fans waiting outside Finch Farm. In fact, there was nobody waiting there at all.

In the dining room some players in shorts were eating lunch. I recognised only the American goalkeeper Tim Howard; few other Everton players are household names. I sat down a few tables away with four members of Moyes’s support staff. One of them, David Weir, a quiet Scotsman in a cardigan, had played for Everton before becoming a coach there; but the other three were unknown outside Finch Farm. Steve Brown, James Smith and Dan Hargreaves, in their blue elephant-adorned training kit, are Everton’s grunts: data analysts who earn dozens of times less than the players they work with.

The dining room was unprepossessing: cheap tables that might have been bottom-of-the-line from Office Depot, food reminiscent of a university canteen, and above our heads, a screen showing a quote from Mahatma Gandhi: “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.”

Everton don’t have money to spare on fittings. Their revenues for the past season were just £80.5m, of which the wage bill swallowed £63.4m. Five of the clubs now in the Premier League’s top seven pay about two or three times more in salaries; the only rival with a wage bill even in Everton’s general ballpark is Tottenham Hotspur, who pay around £90m. Normally a club’s wage bill predicts its final league position: the more you spend on players, the better your team will be. Yet Everton, with about the Premier League’s 10th-highest wage bill, have finished eighth or better every year since 2007. That’s overachievement. No wonder Moyes is bookmakers’ favourite to succeed his fellow Scot Alex Ferguson at Manchester United one day.

[Stuttgart88]

Everton’s story was prefigured in a book published in the US 10 years ago. Moneyball, by Michael Lewis, is about a small baseball club, the Oakland A’s, based like Everton in a rundown city, which consistently overachieved because it found new ways of using statistics to evaluate players. Clever use of data is part of Everton’s story too. Moyes, while still at little Preston North End until 2002, was reputedly the only manager outside the Premier League who bought statistics on players from the data provider Prozone. When Moyes joined Everton, he brought with him the numbers and the mindset. Probably all Premier League clubs now employ a performance analyst, but often the guy is locked up in a backroom with his laptop and never meets the manager. At Finch Farm, the offices of Moyes’s main performance analysts, Smith and Brown, are opposite his own.

Smith says: “He is quite demanding in terms of data. In terms of managers, he is probably as into it as any.” (A measure of the grunts’ awe for Moyes is that they rarely refer to him by name – what to call him? “Moyes”? “Mr Moyes”? “David”?) Moyes will often march into the offices across the corridor firing out questions: how efficient is next Saturday’s opponent at scoring from throw-ins? What types of passes do their midfielders make? When Everton face Tottenham’s superstar Gareth Bale, Moyes wants “an assessment of where Bale is actually picking up the ball compared to the areas where you think he is working,” says Brown.


The Moyes years – a story of success



Aug 2004: Wayne Rooney sold to Manchester United for £25.6m

Jan 2005: Mikel Arteta arrives on loan from Real Sociedad. Signs for £2m in July 2005. Sold to Arsenal for £10m in 2011

Sept 2008: Marouane Fellaini bought from Standard Liege for more than £15m, breaking the club’s transfer record

Nov 2012: Leon Osman, who has played more than 300 games for Everton, makes England debut, aged 31

Stats don’t determine Moyes’s strategy. Rather, they are just one of the tools he uses to give underfinanced Everton an edge. He is always searching for an edge. That’s why he spent scarce cash to move Everton’s training ground from Bellefield to custom-built Finch Farm. A mark of his attention to detail: one of the training pitches there has the exact dimensions of Goodison Park, so that Everton can always simulate match conditions. Weir says: “Moyes almost wanted to take the excuses out: the training facilities, how we travelled, bringing Prozone in. He’s always looking for a little half a per cent to make you better.”

Perhaps the greatest edge Moyes brings is by analysing videos of matches – of Everton and their future opponents. “The level that he goes through the minutiae of the video,” marvels Smith. “Stopping it, playing it again, going through it slowly, from another angle, saying, ‘Go and bring in so-and-so and see what he says about it.’ I think it’s part of why he doesn’t often get it wrong.” Brown adds: “The traditional manager, who leaves at two or three in the afternoon – he couldn’t be further removed from doing that.”

Moyes has no particular ideology of how to play football. Arsène Wenger of Arsenal, say, has always striven for a fast-passing attacking game. Moyes, by contrast, tailors Everton’s style to each new opponent. He works out what the opposition does – and then tries to stop it. Before facing Manchester City, for instance, he found the positions where City’s playmaker David Silva usually receives the ball, and put men there.

The insights gleaned from video and statistics are constantly transmitted to Everton’s players. Brown says: “There is a post-match data sheet that goes up in the changing room. Some players will actually sit down and look at the Prozone data with us; they will look at pass-maps and their ‘receive positions’, their crossing data. One central midfielder comes in every week and looks at his pass completion.” The analysts caution that you need to understand the context of any piece of data. For instance, what was a player’s role in a particular game? Who was he playing alongside? Match data without context are meaningless.

Still, one suspects that the Evertonian happiest to see his weekly numbers is left-back Leighton Baines. The public doesn’t consider him a superstar, but the data provider Opta recently named him “the only player in Europe’s big five leagues this season to create 100+ goalscoring chances”.

Aren’t some players sceptical of numbers? “There is a bit of that,” agrees Brown. But mostly, the analysts find, players appreciate the help. Many players consider stats (about themselves and opponents) a survival tool that could help lengthen their careers in the lucrative Premier League. Smith says: “Going out to play in the Premier League is a daunting thing. They want David Moyes to tell them what to do. That’s reassuring. One player said to me, ‘They might complain about a meeting, but if it wasn’t there they would be the first to say, ‘Where is the meeting?’” Brown adds: “It’s definitely been noted to me by players who have left Everton that the level of detail, of preparation, has been missing at other clubs.”

Team meetings at other clubs rarely last more than 15 minutes. Everton’s meetings are longer and more frequent. A player might receive briefings on the opposition and his own tasks throughout the week. Consequently, Everton play a very planned game. More than at rival clubs, their players take to the field with quite complex guidelines for what to do.


The staffers note that most fans and media seem unaware of this planning. Often, in pubs and TV studios, a game is discussed as if it were a mix of bursts of inspiration, individual blunders and a manager’s motivational powers. Hargreaves, who works for the academy with the remit to ensure its decisions are evidence-based, says: “What the public sees isn’t necessarily what’s happening.” In part, that’s because managers such as Moyes won’t reveal their tactical secrets. So journalists end up writing about how a winning manager “psyched out” his opponent with “mind games”.