Séamus Coleman (D Everton b.1988)

[Olé Olé]

The Sky commentator says Seamus Coleman has looked excellent for somebody playing out of position who would much rather be playing further forward.

You'd wonder why commentators come out with those kind of fallacious statements. Coleman constantly states his preference for right-back, which is probably his best position. He's quite good on the right side of midfield in a 4-4-2 but right-back is his spot.

[Carrigaline]

I didn't watch the game, but I heard that Mirallas was rampant on the right wing. Are we to take it that Coleman is now going to move to right back and Mirallas will become the new right midfield player?

[Crosby87]

Tha would be a real Seamus.

[tricky_colour]

Not that much of a Seamus I think he could have a bright future for us at right back although
I can't say I have seen a lot of him in that position in the defensive role, but he is surely as good as we have got
and defensively and probably the pick of the bunch on the offence?

Indeed he is the top rated (available) Irish player (95th) in these stats:-
http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3389/Stages/6531/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2012-2013

(at the moment anyway) at least of those listed as Irish, Marc Wilson is rated above him at 80th but is listed as English!!!

As (bad) luck would have it Marc Wilson's preferred position is also right back!!! (think he played left back today though).

[DeLorean]

A savage bit of wing play today for Everton's third.

[tricky_colour]

Yes, I just went to have anther look at it but unfortunately my video recorder has managed to lose that segment of play!!!:mad:

It's just one of those cheap USB DVB sticks I use to record to my computer and that is one of it's annoying little features, along
with the fact the volume control is not separately adjustable from other sound streams.

Could get another one for just £6 from China but knowing my luck it would have the same problems!!
Will have to see if I can find footage on-line.

[tricky_colour]

http://www.footreview.net/home/viewvideo/5283/epl-2012-13/everton-3-1-southampton

[Charlie Darwin]

I didn't watch the game, but I heard that Mirallas was rampant on the right wing. Are we to take it that Coleman is now going to move to right back and Mirallas will become the new right midfield player?
Mirallas was electric. He's looked OK in previous matches but yesterday he looked a real player.

[mark12345]

A savage bit of wing play today for Everton's third.

And to think that he'll be just a spectator for the Germany game. Also to think that Wilson won't get a look in and there's a 50-50 chance McLean may not see too much action either. Three players in top form in the EPL who won't figure against Germany. And you might as well throw away the creative talents of Hoolahan as well.

That's because we have so many better options like Stephen Ward, Whelan, O'Dea and if things go wrong there is always the insurance of McShane.

Yeah, Trap really knows what he's doing!

[Crosby87]

You LOVE ODea, Mark. He's really not that good.

[Colbert Report]

And to think that he'll be just a spectator for the Germany game. Also to think that Wilson won't get a look in and there's a 50-50 chance McLean may not see too much action either. Three players in top form in the EPL who won't figure against Germany. And you might as well throw away the creative talents of Hoolahan as well.

That's because we have so many better options like Stephen Ward, Whelan, O'Dea and if things go wrong there is always the insurance of McShane.

Yeah, Trap really knows what he's doing!


He does know what he's doing. Kerr had Duff and Robbie in their prime and coudln't qualify. Same with Stan. Trap got us to within a few minutes of going to penalties against France, one of the top teams in the world, to decide who would get to the World Cup. He got us to the Euros with an absolutely terrible team, save for Dunne. Hats off for Trap. I don't like O'Dea in the team over Clark but he does know what he's doing.

[mark12345]

He does know what he's doing. Kerr had Duff and Robbie in their prime and coudln't qualify. Same with Stan. Trap got us to within a few minutes of going to penalties against France, one of the top teams in the world, to decide who would get to the World Cup. He got us to the Euros with an absolutely terrible team, save for Dunne. Hats off for Trap. I don't like O'Dea in the team over Clark but he does know what he's doing.

Sorry to disagree but he doesn't know what he's doing!

To give him his due, he was a great manager with different teams down through the years and deserves credit for a great managerial career. But this Ireland team is a nut he just can't crack. Granted we don't have the technical acumen of those other teams Trap has coached, but Trap's efforts to compensate for that are coming up short, way short.

What he doesn't realise is that we are a country with such a small pool of talent that we cannot afford to leave out out better players for some perceived 'system'. I mentioned the few players who will likely not get playing time against Germany, but I forgot to include Shane Long. Would you put your life savings on him starting against Germany? He is the best forward we have right now, yet he too will fall foul of the famous 'system'.

Look, I'll take my hat off to you and say I was wrong if it turns out to be a good day against the Germans. But I think you and I both know Trap's 'system' team will be picked to pieces at the Aviva. I would be delighted to be proved wrong though.

[Olé Olé]

I don't like O'Dea in the team over Clark but he does know what he's doing.

It's interesting how some people are all too quick to castigate Clark and state that he's not ready to play centre-back at international level, in some sort of Trap Knows Best campaign.

Can anyone honestly state that Darren O'Dea is a Premier League centre-half? How many Championship managers have deemed him unworthy of places in their squads?

The reality is that, in the Premier League, Clark is likely to be facing, on a regular basis, the calibre of striker that he'd come up against at international level. A calibre that is a damn sight better than that O'Dea was marshalling against Kazakhstan. Fair enough, there's Klose, Podolski and Ibrahimovic to be faced, but I am not very comfortable about the prospect of O'Dea doing so.

It's an interesting old situation we find ourselves in. McShane would most likely be preferred to Coleman at right-back by Trap, O'Dea and St. Ledger preferred to Clark and Ward preferred to Wilson. In all three cases, the preferred choices are older and playing at lower levels.

Furthermore, at centre-half, Pearce and O'Shea are both playing regularly in the Premier League and are often undisputed starters. Joey O'Brien is getting a game at West Ham and Stephen Kelly at Fulham, though I think Kelly would be preferred to McShane, the same cannot be said of O'Brien.

I'm not saying Trap's judgement is wrong in every case because O'Dea and St. Ledger haven't been bad for Ireland. It's just interesting that Trap deems certain players unworthy of a start, while the Premier League managers such as Rodgers (okay, Pearce isn't around long enough), O'Neill (in the context of O'Shea at centre-half), Allardyce, Pulis and Moyes give game time to these players, while some of his preferred choices have been shunned in recent by Jewell (O'Dea), Warnock (O'Dea), Steve Bruce (McShane) and Pearson (St. Ledger).

[jbyrne]

Sorry to disagree but he doesn't know what he's doing!
...... but Trap's efforts to compensate for that are coming up short, way short.


again....

he almost got us to the WC in 2010 drawing with the current world champions twice along the way and only missed out against one of the world powers in a very dubious play-off loss. he then manages us to our first euros in 24 years when far better squads failed under other managers. we are unbeaten away from home in all our qualifiers under Trap. but yes, you are right "he doesnt know what he's doing" and is falling "way short".

both these statements are ridiculous beyond words.

fans and media alike in other countires laugh at us when they hear about the abuse Trap gets in this country. we have a dreadfuly ordinary team but unlike our near neighbours scotland and wales for example, who arguably have better players than us, we are still in with a chance of qualifying less than 4 weeks into the campaign

[peadar1987]

Not that much of a Seamus I think he could have a bright future for us at right back although
I can't say I have seen a lot of him in that position in the defensive role, but he is surely as good as we have got
and defensively and probably the pick of the bunch on the offence?

Indeed he is the top rated (available) Irish player (95th) in these stats:-
http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3389/Stages/6531/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2012-2013

(at the moment anyway) at least of those listed as Irish, Marc Wilson is rated above him at 80th but is listed as English!!!

As (bad) luck would have it Marc Wilson's preferred position is also right back!!! (think he played left back today though).

I awlays thought Wilson preferred playing in the centre of midfield. He's left-footed anyway, and has always played on the left for Stoke, we've had Huth, Wilkinson, and now Cameron as right backs since he signed for us. Very rare for him to play there, but he is very comfortable on the left.

[shellyriver]

Sligo may be "professional" in Irish terms but he has only being professional about 3.7 years. He himself and moyes admitted as much.


What a spanner!

[nigel-harps1954]

Sligo may be "professional" in Irish terms but he has only being professional about 3.7 years. He himself and moyes admitted as much.

Have you a direct quote of that? Because that's complete and utter shi*e. Just because it's a bit of rise in standard and the crowds are bigger doesn't mean they're any more professional.

[WexCar]

"He's had no real footballing experience at this level, or any level at all, very little full-time training and very little technical work so we hope there is going to be more improvement.


Think this the quote he was talkin about.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Everton-boss-David-Moyes-hails-60k-bargain-Seamus-Coleman-article716362.html

[nigel-harps1954]

What a d!ckhead. I used to like David Moyes.

[Colbert Report]

LOI is not the highest standard lads. Don't be offended.

[paul_oshea]

What a d!ckhead. I used to like David Moyes.

Ya the two of you are ********s alright.

[paul_oshea]

What a spanner!

Ya i know you are. This name calling is fun.

[Charlie Darwin]

I thought Moyes' comment was fair enough. Coleman was clearly unpolished diamond and his technique and physique have come on leaps and bounds at Everton. That said, I'd hardly say many of the players who come out of the English academy system are particularly well-coached either.

[nigel-harps1954]

I hope people know that was a completely tongue in cheek comment about David Moyes.

[mark12345]

again....

he almost got us to the WC in 2010 drawing with the current world champions twice along the way and only missed out against one of the world powers in a very dubious play-off loss. he then manages us to our first euros in 24 years when far better squads failed under other managers. we are unbeaten away from home in all our qualifiers under Trap. but yes, you are right "he doesnt know what he's doing" and is falling "way short". both these statements are ridiculous beyond words.

Ok let's just look for a second at these ridiculous beyond words statements.

You mention games against current world champions (I believe you mean the then world champions, Italy, but so what).

Fact is, we should have beaten Italy in Bari, given the preponderance of late chances we had against ten men. Fact is also, we should have beaten them at home (particularly after Sledge got that late goal - tactics were all wrong with O'Shea most culpable). Another fact - we got the game plan all wrong against France at Lansdowne - should have been far more attack minded as Paris clearly bore out. And a few days later in Paris we would have qualified had we taken even one more of the several chances we had.

So for Mr Trap - he failed four decent or better than decent tests. Then, we face off against Russia and were taken to school in two games. Another pair of failures.

Fact is, Trap has taken this team as far as it can go. There were options - not saying they would have worked, but they would have at least given an indication that Ireland was intent on playing proper constructive football. So we're up to six failed tests against decent opposition. Then there was the Euros - forget Spain because they're light years ahead of us in their thinking on the game, but Croatia was a tactical disaster and Italy was a challenge to salvage pride. But it was two more failures. Eight failures in tests against the type of opposition which you're likely to find at big tournaments.

You correctly point out that we have sub-standard players and Trap is hampered by this. Agree hundred per cent. But there were inferior players in previous squads with less attacking talent available to them. Remember Trap has stuck with Glen Whelan, who is is mainstay in the middle of the park. His choice and a stubborn one at that. The team lacks a heartbeat but Trap was happy to persist with Whelan. There were others with more skill and presence but he brought in Paul Green as an option. Again, he got us to the Euros so you have to give him some credit. But it has all clearly fallen flat on its face and these choice players of his have been shown up as failures. But yet he persists with them (not with Green now). So the sympathy for him goes right out the window.

So when you add it all up Trap isn't as good as he makes himself out to be. As I said he is due a lot of credit for achievments with other teams throughout his career and indeed with Ireland, but he's reached the end of the road. What disappoints me most is that he promised a whole new approach after the Euros (I was honestly expecting to see something bright and constructive from his team in Khazakstan but didn't). I don't think we'll see it either against Germany or the Faroes. Do you? And then there's another four years gone and we're still stuck down the wrong road.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ok let's just look for a second at these ridiculous beyond words statements.

You mention games against current world champions (I believe you mean the then world champions, Italy, but so what).

Fact is, we should have beaten Italy in Bari, given the preponderance of late chances we had against ten men.
So:

The team created lots of chances - not Trap's doing.
The team missed all but one of those chances - Trap's fault.


Another fact - we got the game plan all wrong against France at Lansdowne - should have been far more attack minded as Paris clearly bore out. And a few days later in Paris we would have qualified had we taken even one more of the several chances we had.
So, again, we created lots of chances. Clearly an indictment of the way Trap set the team up.

[Stuttgart88]

Just think of the cahnces we missed vs France in Dublin:

Keane 1-on-1 with lloris, good save, Lawrence somehow missed the follow up (Evra block)
Whelan 1-on-1 with Lloris in last minute

I think we had 4 1-on-1s over the two games.

I have always said here, when all the naysayers were predicting imminent doom against better teams, that we WILL get the odd chance. This has largely proven true. However I am very concerned after the Euros that we won't even get those chances and we'll be outclassed against Germany.

Myabe Coleman is not the best defensively but let's face it JOS aint any better at RB but when we're lacking in almost any threat to the Germans, having a guy who can join the attack on the wing is a must-have. Better to have an unproven defender who can actually get forward than a proven weak full back who doesn't even try to get forward - giving Germany carte blanche to attack our flanks.

Kelly would be a halfway-house solution. Go for it Trap, pick Seamie!

[jbyrne]

Fact is, Trap has taken this team as far as it can go

How much further than qualifying do you think our team of championship, MLS and very ordinary EPL teams can go?
What manager would bring them further?



Eight failures in tests against the type of opposition which you're likely to find at big tournaments.


The fact that we were at the Euros in the first place to be beaten by definately the two best teams and probably the 4th / 5th best team in the competition is a great achievment. As I said far better Irish squads failed to do so over the years.

The grass is always greener etc. I dread the day the "Trap Out" supporters get their way and we go back to the days of finishing 3rd or 4th in our qualifying groups again. I really miss those days too!

[p2011]

These arguments are starting to become tiresome.

In general, a little more "grey area" in these discussions would be good. The absolutism and blind insistence on results (i.e. being satisfied with the 0-0 in Russia) is not really helpful and is a way of simply closing down the discussion rather than engaging in it.

[SwanVsDalton]

In general, a little more "grey area" in these discussions would be good.

Totally agree.


The absolutism and blind insistence on results (i.e. being satisfied with the 0-0 in Russia) is not really helpful and is a way of simply closing down the discussion rather than engaging in it.

Uhhh and there's no absolutism on the other side of the argument (i.e stating pretty much every 'positive' result as either lucky or a diabolical performance, and disregarding any potential achievement under the current manager)?

:bulgy:

[geysir]

I watched the game between Everton and Wigan, I thought Coleman was poor to average throughout.
Though at the end of game he saved a point for Everton by inadvertently deflecting a goal bound shot.

[Charlie Darwin]

Poor as in he had a bad day or poor as in he looked a bit lost? MOTD were scathing of Jagielka and Heitinga (who is never a centre half for me - a pure midfielder).

[drummerboy]

Got skint for the first goal and was caught out of position on a number of occasions. Has a lot to learn if he is to play regularly at full back in international football.

[geysir]

Poor as in he had a bad day or poor as in he looked a bit lost? MOTD were scathing of Jagielka and Heitinga (who is never a centre half for me - a pure midfielder).

A bit of both I suppose, no doubt he has had better days. Out there he was easily shackled whenever he had the ball, didn't have much of a clue defensively and gave the ball away needlessly. He looked a bit culpable for Wigan's first, but maybe it was a 'genuine' slip.
Yeah, the Everton central defense was poor (at sea) especially first half.

[paul_oshea]

colemans problem as has been mentioned by one or two others as well is that his gaelic background means he has a tendency to follow 'his man' and leaves himself exposed and out of position. whereas in gaelic this would be very good man marking soccer is more about marking the area rather than the man. Anytime ive watched coleman at right back ive never been very confident, always uneasy with the previous point and his consistent jeraey pulling/slight pushing/shoulders(first 2 all gaa tactics to stop yer man getting a yard on yoj), i always feel he is liable to give away a needles free kick at the least or even a penalty. the latter remarkably hasnt happened yet but its only a matter of time

[paul_oshea]

meant to add halfway through above that yesterday he was out of position coming inside an awful lot covering his man because the centre pair were woeful all over the shop

[geysir]

I doubt his rambling tendencies were so altruistic - to cover the inadequacies of the 2 CH's
He was also out of position for us against the Omanis.

Regardless of his poor game yesterday, he has more than enough about him to be considered as an established part our future teams and I'd say the same goes for McClean. But I can see where the doubts come from, re his defensive side. Still I would grit my teeth and echo the previous comments to throw Coleman in there at RB and take the consequences.

[paul_oshea]

He is doing ok against QPR. Everything good from QPR is coming down his side though. He has a habit of getting pulled in too central, jagielka seems to be instructing him throughout.

[paul_oshea]

He has given the ball away poorly twice.

[Crosby87]

Jagielka looks like someone famous.

[tricky_colour]

He has given the ball away poorly twice.

Only twice?
Sign him up!!!
I think he also almost gave away a penalty, but it was a close decision, or rather not spotted by the ref/didn't look lie a penalty, which I see as a good thing, you will get other defenders who have penalties given against them even when they don't commit a foul, I know which I prefer!
I do like that Coleman gets forward though.

Sky: "A few nervy moments but got forward when possible.".


He got 2 points on Sky fantasy football, the rules say

Player completes 60 or more passes: 2pts
Player completes 4 or more successful tackles: 2pts

So probably for the tackles?

You also get 2 points for starting but I think they were already taken into account as none
of the other defenders who started got any points listed.

[paul_oshea]

yep he did, its something ive always feared about him and for ireland. I really don't know how he has gotten away with it for so long, he must have eaten his lucky charms again this morning. On five occasions I've seen him give away clear penalties yet he gets away with it.

[dong]

yep he did, its something ive always feared about him and for ireland. I really don't know how he has gotten away with it for so long, he must have eaten his lucky charms again this morning. On five occasions I've seen him give away clear penalties yet he gets away with it.

Im sure he'll eventually fulfill your prophecy and give one away if you keep on about it for long enough.
Nice little vendetta you have against him.

[Junior]

Im sure he'll eventually fulfill your prophecy and give one away if you keep on about it for long enough.
Nice little vendetta you have against him.

Haha thats funny, POSH actually has a little crush on Coleman (picture unde his pillow that type of thing). He's posted it loads before about him not only being a good player but also a lucky one (in that he seems to get away with a few fouls in dangerous areas/penalty box) - A positive attribute I think he's saying. Its hardly a Vendetta, I thought you Rovers fans would be all on top of the world right now, still a touch of paranoia about ye and yours though it seems.....:D

[tricky_colour]

yep he did, its something ive always feared about him and for ireland. I really don't know how he has gotten away with it for so long, he must have eaten his lucky charms again this morning. On five occasions I've seen him give away clear penalties yet he gets away with it.

actually they just showed it on MOTD and it was not a penalty, he got a touch on the ball. so maybe the other penalties he gave away were not actually penalties. I think the thing maybe that he goes to play the ball commit a foul so that makes it harder to spot. Other players go to commit a foul, fail and get sent off!!

[paul_oshea]

If that was the case here then fair enough, on sky they said it was a penalty.

Its not a vendetta. I love the thought of someone like Coleman making a career for himself given his background. Long may his luck continue.

[DeLorean]

There is one angle that clearly show him getting a slight touch on the ball a mili-second before contact with the player (and that was with a magnifier). He was pretty lucky to get away with it really, even if it was technically not a foul. I think it would have been given, without a doubt, if Jelavic had got his in the first half.

[tricky_colour]

There is one angle that clearly show him getting a slight touch on the ball a mili-second before contact with the player (and that was with a magnifier). He was pretty lucky to get away with it really, even if it was technically not a foul. I think it would have been given, without a doubt, if Jelavic had got his in the first half.

As you point out he did not "get away with it" because no foul was committed as he did get a touch on the ball.
The ref must have good eyesight if he saw the touch, however I fancy he saw neither a touch or a foul, I didn't see the foul first time round.
I could hardly believe my eyes when I saw the enlarged slow motion, look like a clear cut peno, and 'lucky to get away' with it.
I think it just goes to show how your eyes can be deceived, but rather than being lucky I see it as good judgement.
So as I say, sign him up!!

[Manblue]

As you point out he did not "get away with it" because no foul was committed as he did get a touch on the ball.
The ref must have good eyesight if he saw the touch, however I fancy he saw neither a touch or a foul, I didn't see the foul first time round.
I could hardly believe my eyes when I saw the enlarged slow motion, look like a clear cut peno, and 'lucky to get away' with it.
I think it just goes to show how your eyes can be deceived, but rather than being lucky I see it as good judgement.
So as I say, sign him up!!

It was sloppy to say the least, safety first. We can't depend on top class refereeing in games as we found out before.

He can be very casual at times. Got away with it on the wings but too dangerous in the box.

[DeLorean]

I think he was lucky in the sense that it would usually be given, as from most angles it looked a clear penalty (including the ref's angle). He was extra lucky as it was such a poor touch in the first place. Alan Shearer (I know, I know) said on motd2 that even though he did get a slight touch on the ball first, it was still a penalty. Not sure how that works.

Wouldn't worry too much about it Manblue, his touch is usually pretty good. He does far more good than bad in my opinion and is still very much learning. He's only getting used to the full back position again.