League of Ireland in Europe 2016

[geysir]

Dundalk were pressure pinned to the wall quite a few times, but it came down to skillfully capitalising on 2 poor mistakes that let Zenit have the game.
And despite all that, Dundalk could not have come closer to not losing the game and deservedly so.
A win at 'home' and an away draw is now well within the realm of possibilities.

[bennocelt]

From the Uefa site
"Article 16 Equality of points – group stage16.01 If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches,the following criteria are applied in the order given to determine their rankings:a. higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among theteams in question;b. superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams inquestion;c. higher number of goals scored in the group matches played among the teamsin question. d. higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches playedamong the teams in question;e. if, after having applied criteria a) to d), teams still have an equal ranking,criteria a) to d) are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the teams inquestion to determine their final rankings. If this procedure does not lead to adecision, criteria f) to l) apply;f. superior goal difference in all group matches;g. higher number of goals scored in all group matches;h. higher number of away goals scored in all group matches;i. higher number of wins in all group matches;j. higher number of away wins in all group matches;k. lower disciplinary points total based only on yellow and red cards received inall group matches (red card = 3 points, yellow card = 1 point, expulsion fortwo yellow cards in one match = 3 points);l. higher club coefficient (see Annex D)"

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/Regulations/02/35/92/45/2359245_DOWNLOAD.pdf

[WoodquayBoy]

United 2-0 down in Turkey and going out as things stand (with two more matches to go of course). That'd be funny.


Funny, yes, but not correct

[legendz]

Bohemians 00 won away in Germany. Shelbourne 04 drew at home against both Deportivo and Lille. Derry 06 drew at home against PSG. If only these teams had the luxury of a group stage to showcase their talents.

[pineapple stu]

Correct, but maybe phrased badly.

They're currently third in the group. Though I agree they'll likely go through still.

[nigel-harps1954]

Bohemians 00 won away in Germany. Shelbourne 04 drew at home against both Deportivo and Lille. Derry 06 drew at home against PSG. If only these teams had the luxury of a group stage to showcase their talents.

No harm to you, but..

http://img13.deviantart.net/5dd0/i/2010/277/1/a/a_broken_record_5000_by_yotrailmix-d303uk7.jpg

[legendz]

No harm to you, but..

http://img13.deviantart.net/5dd0/i/2010/277/1/a/a_broken_record_5000_by_yotrailmix-d303uk7.jpgHaha! :D

... and I'll keep banging on about it even more. ;)

[TonyD]

Bohemians 00 won away in Germany. Shelbourne 04 drew at home against both Deportivo and Lille. Derry 06 drew at home against PSG. If only these teams had the luxury of a group stage to showcase their talents.

They were one off games though, and we'll never know how they would have fared Ina group situation. The point is that Dundalk have earned the right to play in the group stages, and are consistently competitive in all of their games. Very good again tonight, and so close to getting a draw with the McElany shot off the crossbar. The difference I think with Dundalk and previous Irish teams is that they have the strength to compete and not be muscled out of it by the bigger teams, something Irish teams have lacked in the past. Yes, they have a lot of talent, but so did the previous teams you mentioned, as well as Pats in 2014, who came very close to beating Legia in Warsaw.

One final point about the errors for the goals (though I misssed the first goal) but aren't the errors a symptom of the extra pressure Dundalk are under in these games, rather than just simple unforced mistakes. That's what happens when you step up a level. They don't come under the same pressure in domestic games, so make less of those kind of mistakes.

[jinxy lilywhite]

Haha! :D

... and I'll keep banging on about it even more. ;)

Dundalk had to play 3 rounds to get to the El group stages. Overall what is your point


On the game zenith created a multitude of chances and we're guilty of not taking them. It's a killer that they scored from our errors moreso than their own skill but I suppose it's the small margins at this level.
Can't help but be overly proud of our lads. What best way to get over it than a cup final to savour on sunday.

It could be one of the last times we could get to see horgan, boyle and a few others playing in Ireland and for a tenner

[Ezeikial]

Any stream?


The orange ball is back!

Great to see. Much missed since the 80s/early 90s.

Are these two posts linked in any way?

[Nesta99]

Legends overall point is that Dundalk are not doing anything new really! In this regard if it was a 2 legged match we would be talking about losing 4-2 to a vastly higher ranked and better resourced club and we hit the woodwork 3 times over the 2 games, so the old bad luck story.

We were composed in spells but were beaten by a better side, nothing new there. Home game was a greater disappointment result wise. It is a hell of a learning curve for both the players and the club which is good and will be an edge for the remaining 2 group games. On to the cup final now, another tough game for different reasons and then focus, with some time on the remaining EL games. Couple of points of 1 win could see us through and we can worry about fixture congestion once again in February (we hope).

[SPXcyan]

Amazing to think that Dundalk can still qualify to the knock-out phase.. and they still manage to impress us with their almost flawless game plan and composure, I cannot wait to see how they fair in the last two games, great craic as a LOI fan!

[gufcfan]

Hopefully the momentum they've built up won't be lost after the 18 days between the cup final and the Alkmaar game.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Heaven forbid anyone would praise a LOI team. At least we'll always have the likes of Legendz there willing to knock them and tell us they're not that good as everyone is saying and are just lucky that they got through 3 rounds to end up playing the top ranked team in the tournament.

[pineapple stu]

One final point about the errors for the goals (though I misssed the first goal) but aren't the errors a symptom of the extra pressure Dundalk are under in these games, rather than just simple unforced mistakes. That's what happens when you step up a level. They don't come under the same pressure in domestic games, so make less of those kind of mistakes.
Yeah, I'd agree with that alright.

The first goal was a bit of farting about - though Cunningham made a good point in analysis that it was like three Zenit players had set a trap if the free was taken short, which it was - but I thought the criticism of the second was a bit harsh; scuffed shots can be harder to deal with. But overall, one of the things that happens when you play better teams is that they force you into what seem silly mistakes. (The first Slovan goal against us in the Bowl last year was a good example)

[White Horse]

One final point about the errors for the goals (though I misssed the first goal) but aren't the errors a symptom of the extra pressure Dundalk are under in these games, rather than just simple unforced mistakes. That's what happens when you step up a level. They don't come under the same pressure in domestic games, so make less of those kind of mistakes.

100% correct.

Players can be a little lazy in their thinking in the LOI and get away with it. Dundalk had an awful habit of playing square balls and they have just about eradicated that from their game. The habit of playing short free kicks when the full backs are pushed up and the receiving player has no space is still a problem.

The thing about this level of football is that you cannot be predictable with your passing. Players are so mobile that they will anticipate these passes when in dangerous areas and press in numbers.

[swinfordfc]

Kenny has his players playing it out from the back ... there are good and bad points from this! Bad ... the two goals they give away last night by Gartland! The first one could/should be knock into the Zenit box as it was coming to the end of the half and the second Gartland never gave his midfielder a chance with his pass - some its ok to launch a ball upfield! However, the good point was Dundalk goal last night - it was expecting play out from the back and then it was tried to be play over the top but miss-directed but it was header onto Horgan path and he finished brilliantly. In fairest to Kenny, we are praising his style of play (I am enjoying it) but they will make mistakes doing it - the big problem is Gartland seems to be involved in all the mistakes recently (he at fault for 3 of the 4 goals against Zenit!)

[oriel]

As per UEFA.com Dundalk are still second. Two draws might even be enough for us to qualify as long as Macabi don't beat Zenit away. The best chance though is to beat AZ at home, that will put us on 7 points.

Then it's all to play for in the last game in Israel. I think regardless of the scores in the next matches, second place will go down to the last day anyway?

Fantastic display by Dundalk and just great to get it back level with Horgan's brilliant goal, mistakes keep leading to goals though, but at least we don't have to face Zenit again, and goal difference not too bad either after the two games against them.

We probably need Zenit to win their remaining games, but the obvious big one is to try and beat AZ in tallaght first, it's going to be difficult but I think we can do it.

[seand]

Still a great chance to progress and amazingly we're guaranteed to be in with a shout of progressing on Matchday 6. If Zenit keep winning we could go through with 1 win and six points. The problem with playing Zenit back to back in the middle is that they've now qualified so could play weakened teams against AZ and Maccabi giving them a chance of getting a result.

One more point for the coefficient though, pleeeeease, and we're pretty much guaranteed to be seeded in the Champions League.

edit: I think we could go through with 5 points if Zenit win their two games.... if we lose to AZ by 1 goal and draw in Israel Dundalk, AZ and Maccabi would all be on five points. In the 3 way head-to-head we'd all have 5 points and 0 goal difference. e.g. If we lost to AZ 2-1 and drew 1-1 in Israel we'd go through on goals scored in head-to-heads.

[seand]

And a quick look at the Champions League topscorers chart

1 Messi (Barcelona) 7
2 McMillan (Dundalk) 5

[legendz]

Heaven forbid anyone would praise a LOI team. At least we'll always have the likes of Legendz there willing to knock themHow does highlighting good European performances by LoI teams knock Dundalk?

[ger121]

How does highlighting good European performances by LoI teams knock Dundalk?

By insinuating Dundalk's acheivement is some what diminished, by the fact they aren't up against a seeded side in a 2 legs tie. You just can't compare one to the other. Different times and a different challenge. Like apples and oranges.

[legendz]

By insinuating Dundalk's acheivement is some what diminished, by the fact they aren't up against a seeded side in a 2 legs tie.Au contraire Rodders! ;) Simply highlighting the league has been well represented at this level of competition in the past.

[ToberonaTornado]

No harm to you Ledgenz but this stuff is getting very boring at this stage.You have an opinion and i appreciate that but this is getting silly and it's also boring the arse of me :D Get some new material together and see how that works for you.That 2nd album is always the hard one!

[JDsJocks]

Dundalk made a few mistakes over the two legs but this is Zenit St petersburg were talking about here, one of the best sides in Europe.

Some comment back about how its no different to other LOI sides in the past, eh any other team would have got whipped 5 or 6-0.

The experience they have gain from these games will stand to them for the rest of the group. AZ are no great shakes, hopefully Dundalk get the win, only fear is the lack of games up to it!!

[legendz]

No harm to you Ledgenz but this stuff is getting very boring at this stage.Fair enough. Many people are getting caught up in the high of Dundalk's fine European run. You'll have to politely ignore my reminders that other LoI clubs have enjoyed similar success. I'm amused LoI people are bothered by it. It's an irritant for those who have a habit of dismissing the league.

[Yossarian]

The experience they have gain from these games will stand to them for the rest of the group. AZ are no great shakes, hopefully Dundalk get the win, only fear is the lack of games up to it!!

I don't think the lack of games will be an issue leading up to the AZ game will be an issue. It's only 2 and a half weeks and it will give time for recovery and to clear up a few niggling injuries. Anyway, AZ themselves play tomorrow and then only have one game before the Europa League match.

[Nesta99]

Fair enough. Many people are getting caught up in the high of Dundalk's fine European run. You'll have to politely ignore my reminders that other LoI clubs have enjoyed similar success. I'm amused LoI people are bothered by it. It's an irritant for those who have a habit of dismissing the league.

It is to do with LoI fans familiar with past achievements recognising that Dundalk's achievements have surpassed previous successes and are not similar. There have been fine results in the past but sporadic, a good few smash and grabs, collapses in a 2nd leg, the fading in the last quarter of the match. etc. Playing 12 games in Europe up until December, in a consistent, controlled and confident manner, and getting results, while winning the league again and a cup final to come is unique not similar to previous clubs 'runs' in Europe. Picking up co-efficient points in one season that the league has barely managed over a number of seasons even with occasional good results (even considering format changes). Again this is not my being defensive as a Dundalk supporter! It is because it is a unique achievement. Add in the way this run has captured the interest of national and international media, the way that the Irish sporting public has taken notice, that games have all sold out (ignoring the Ticketmaster messing with the Aviva). Also the constant repetition of the point you are making and in a manner that comes across as a 'this is no big deal clubs have done similar before' which is just not true as Dundalk have achieved a number of firsts for LoI (in the past ourselves too) on this run so how is it 'similar success'?

[Ezeikial]

It is to do with LoI fans familiar with past achievements recognising that Dundalk's achievements have surpassed previous successes and are not similar. There have been fine results in the past but sporadic, a good few smash and grabs, collapses in a 2nd leg, the fading in the last quarter of the match. etc. Playing 12 games in Europe up until December, in a consistent, controlled and confident manner, and getting results, while winning the league again and a cup final to come is unique not similar to previous clubs 'runs' in Europe. Picking up co-efficient points in one season that the league has barely managed over a number of seasons even with occasional good results (even considering format changes). Again this is not my being defensive as a Dundalk supporter! It is because it is a unique achievement. Add in the way this run has captured the interest of national and international media, the way that the Irish sporting public has taken notice, that games have all sold out (ignoring the Ticketmaster messing with the Aviva). Also the constant repetition of the point you are making and in a manner that comes across as a 'this is no big deal clubs have done similar before' which is just not true as Dundalk have achieved a number of firsts for LoI (in the past ourselves too) on this run so how is it 'similar success'?

I can't believe that you ended the post with a question!

[TonyD]

It is to do with LoI fans familiar with past achievements recognising that Dundalk's achievements have surpassed previous successes and are not similar. There have been fine results in the past but sporadic, a good few smash and grabs, collapses in a 2nd leg, the fading in the last quarter of the match. etc. Playing 12 games in Europe up until December, in a consistent, controlled and confident manner, and getting results, while winning the league again and a cup final to come is unique not similar to previous clubs 'runs' in Europe. Picking up co-efficient points in one season that the league has barely managed over a number of seasons even with occasional good results (even considering format changes). Again this is not my being defensive as a Dundalk supporter! It is because it is a unique achievement. Add in the way this run has captured the interest of national and international media, the way that the Irish sporting public has taken notice, that games have all sold out (ignoring the Ticketmaster messing with the Aviva). Also the constant repetition of the point you are making and in a manner that comes across as a 'this is no big deal clubs have done similar before' which is just not true as Dundalk have achieved a number of firsts for LoI (in the past ourselves too) on this run so how is it 'similar success'?

I agree with most of that. The only point about the difference between the past and now is that the group situation makes a difference and gives the chance for extra games. In the past, in a knocut situation Dundalk would have performed commendably against Zenith, but would still have gone out on aggregate. We still don't know how they will do in the second games against AZ and Maccabi. Of course they did win a couple of knockout rounds to get there, but then there was the safety net of the EL after losing the playoff to Legia.

Long winded way of saying it's hard to compare different eras and structure of competitions. I do believe that Dundalk in terms of strength and fitness alone are a good bit ahead of any previous LOI side.

[sbgawa]

Just enjoy the moment dundalk fans..what difference does it make if this is the best tran in the history of the league or not...in ten years time some other team will achieve something special and people will be saying that they are the best team ever.....will it lesson the current achievement? ? No. Enjoy the moment and stop both trying to convInce people that thus is the greatest team since time began and ignore people who say it isn t. ...IT'S BORING AND UNPROVABLE.

[sparky12345678]

Yes, teams have some good runs. St. Pats particularly have managed to keep a respectable consistency in their coefficient for a few years now. Yes, sure formats are different. I remember that Drogheda's close call against Dynamo Kiev was in the 2nd Qualifying Round. They would have dropped down into the Europa League in today's format, the same year St. Pats had a decent run and lost out to Hertha Berlin... would Drogheda that year have beaten one of the seeded teams? who knows. Rovers did have a good one off against Partizan but did they preform in the group stages as well as Dundalk? no.
Its difficult to compare them all but Dundalk have played more games. Have they averaged more goals scored/better goal difference per games played then the others?

They have 4 points in the group which going into the group we would have said is a decent haul... and its not over yet... etc.

Yes there have been previous successes and good LOI stories in Europe... there have also been horror stories in the same period...

[legendz]

It is to do with LoI fans familiar with past achievements recognising that Dundalk's achievements have surpassed previous successes and are not similar. There have been fine results in the past but sporadic, a good few smash and grabs, collapses in a 2nd leg, the fading in the last quarter of the match. etc. Playing 12 games in Europe up until December, in a consistent, controlled and confident manner, and getting results, while winning the league again and a cup final to come is unique not similar to previous clubs 'runs' in Europe. Picking up co-efficient points in one season that the league has barely managed over a number of seasons even with occasional good results (even considering format changes). Again this is not my being defensive as a Dundalk supporter! It is because it is a unique achievement. Add in the way this run has captured the interest of national and international media, the way that the Irish sporting public has taken notice, that games have all sold out (ignoring the Ticketmaster messing with the Aviva). Also the constant repetition of the point you are making and in a manner that comes across as a 'this is no big deal clubs have done similar before' which is just not true as Dundalk have achieved a number of firsts for LoI (in the past ourselves too) on this run so how is it 'similar success'?Dundalk are having a fine season. They have yet to surpass the European adventures of Bohemians 00, Shelbourne 04 and Derry 06. It's great it has captured interest. It doesn't make it a better achievement. This is one season just like 00, 04 and 06. This season will have to be backed up by another good season in Europe for it not to be sporadic as well. Time will tell.


I agree with most of that. The only point about the difference between the past and now is that the group situation makes a difference and gives the chance for extra games. In the past, in a knocut situation Dundalk would have performed commendably against Zenith, but would still have gone out on aggregate. We still don't know how they will do in the second games against AZ and Maccabi. Of course they did win a couple of knockout rounds to get there, but then there was the safety net of the EL after losing the playoff to Legia.

Long winded way of saying it's hard to compare different eras and structure of competitions. I do believe that Dundalk in terms of strength and fitness alone are a good bit ahead of any previous LOI side.It is hard to compare eras. All we know is unseeded teams mentioned in 00, 04 and 06 competed well against seeded opponents. Dundalk beat a Maccabi team who they wouldn't have played in the old UEFA Cup first round proper as Maccabi would have been unseeded as well.


Just enjoy the moment dundalk fans..what difference does it make if this is the best tran in the history of the league or not...in ten years time some other team will achieve something special and people will be saying that they are the best team ever.....will it lesson the current achievement? ? No. Enjoy the moment and stop both trying to convInce people that thus is the greatest team since time began and ignore people who say it isn t. ...IT'S BORING AND UNPROVABLE.If Dundalk get out of the group, it'll be a better achievement than Shelbourne 04. Anything less and if it's not followed up by another good European season, it'll be the same as Shelbourne's one season wonder.

[nigel-harps1954]

Dundalk are having a fine season. They have yet to surpass the European adventures of Bohemians 00, Shelbourne 04 and Derry 06. It's great it has captured interest. It doesn't make it a better achievement. This is one season just like 00, 04 and 06. This season will have to be backed up by another good season in Europe for it not to be sporadic as well. Time will tell.

It is hard to compare eras. All we know is unseeded teams mentioned in 00, 04 and 06 competed well against seeded opponents. Dundalk beat a Maccabi team who they wouldn't have played in the old UEFA Cup first round proper as Maccabi would have been unseeded as well.

If Dundalk get out of the group, it'll be a better achievement than Shelbourne 04. Anything less and if it's not followed up by another good European season, it'll be the same as Shelbourne's one season wonder.

WHAT?! Dundalk have surpassed all of those years. They've done more than any Irish club in history of group stage European competition.

[sbgawa]

On no they haven't. .....oh yes they have......oh no they haven't.

[sbgawa]

In fairness I met one of the rovers lads from the four in a row team and asked him how he thought that team would do against today's dundalk team. He reckoned it would be close but dundalks superior fitNess would be the deciding fat or. ...but to be fair a lot of that rovers team are in their sixties now.

[Charlie Darwin]

WHAT?! Dundalk have surpassed all of those years. They've done more than any Irish club in history of group stage European competition.
Well the Europa League has only had a group stage for 12 years.

[El-Pietro]

Playing 12 games in Europe up until December, in a consistent, controlled and confident manner,

Well thats not true. You scraped through against FH, and were pretty woeful in Belarus (apparently, I didn't see that game, I was in Belgium). You weren't exactly spectacular versus Legia either though you held your own. Performances have been incredible since then, but calling your performances consistent is rewriting history. Up until BATE in Tallaght you didn't look like you were going to achieve much this summer. Our away game against Genk had been the stand out Irish performance this year until you blew everyone away with that second half against BATE.


Picking up co-efficient points in one season that the league has barely managed over a number of seasons even with occasional good results (even considering format changes)
I don't know how you are measuring this. League and Club coefficients aren't calculated the same way so its not a fair comparison. Lets not forget that Dundalk won two ties in qualifying. Not all that impressive on its own. Same achievement City had this year, though its probably fair to say BATE and FH were of a higher standard than Linfield and Hacken combined. The format has been kind to you. I think thats Legendz point.

What has happened since you reached the group stage has been impressive, and beyond anything any Irish club has done in the modern/group stage era.

Though City picked up 3 draws and a defeat from our 4 group stage games in the 1997 Intertoto Cup group so I don't know where all this business about "first point in a European group" has come from!

[patrickccfc]

http://www.asroma.com/en/video/2016/11/3/watch-highlights-of-cork-city-1-3-roma-in-the-youth-league

Highlights of the u19's vs Roma.

[sparky12345678]

Dundalk are having a fine season. They have yet to surpass the European adventures of Bohemians 00, Shelbourne 04 and Derry 06. It's great it has captured interest. It doesn't make it a better achievement. This is one season just like 00, 04 and 06. This season will have to be backed up by another good season in Europe for it not to be sporadic as well. Time will tell.

It is hard to compare eras. All we know is unseeded teams mentioned in 00, 04 and 06 competed well against seeded opponents. Dundalk beat a Maccabi team who they wouldn't have played in the old UEFA Cup first round proper as Maccabi would have been unseeded as well.

If Dundalk get out of the group, it'll be a better achievement than Shelbourne 04. Anything less and if it's not followed up by another good European season, it'll be the same as Shelbourne's one season wonder.

Look the question is unknowable. Shelbourne would have catapulted down into the "group stages" under an identical format. But look at the groups that year. Would Shelbourne's team have been able to take 4 points in any of those groups? Would Shelbourne have taken 4 points in this group Dundalk is in?

I dont think its fair to compare Uefa cup runs versus Champions league runs either... It is much harder to get through those qualifying rounds even in the Europa League format (although Maccabi did play in all of them this year and were seeded in all of them including the last one).
its hard to prove given the different formats but would the Bohs 00 or derry 06 or shels 04 team have performed as well as Dundalk? Would they have taken those 4 points like Dundalk did? Would they have beaten Dundalk to the league and get to the cup final the same year also?
I dont know, I havent followed LOI as intently as you guys but do you(s) think that Dundalk are better than those teams? if so it would be reasonable to assume that they might not have performed as well. I think its unfair to say that Dundalk has to qualify in order to have "achieved" more. 4 points is more than Rovers achieved. and finishing 3rd would still be an achievement in itself.
They have lost one of the "ties" to Zenit. if the lose the next two games...then maybe you could have a point. but i dno... :p

[White Horse]

You are all forgetting the St. James Gate team from 1904.

[legendz]

Look the question is unknowable. Shelbourne would have catapulted down into the "group stages" under an identical format. But look at the groups that year. Would Shelbourne's team have been able to take 4 points in any of those groups? Would Shelbourne have taken 4 points in this group Dundalk is in?

I dont think its fair to compare Uefa cup runs versus Champions league runs either... It is much harder to get through those qualifying rounds even in the Europa League format (although Maccabi did play in all of them this year and were seeded in all of them including the last one).
its hard to prove given the different formats but would the Bohs 00 or derry 06 or shels 04 team have performed as well as Dundalk? Would they have taken those 4 points like Dundalk did? Would they have beaten Dundalk to the league and get to the cup final the same year also?
I dont know, I havent followed LOI as intently as you guys but do you(s) think that Dundalk are better than those teams? if so it would be reasonable to assume that they might not have performed as well. I think its unfair to say that Dundalk has to qualify in order to have "achieved" more. 4 points is more than Rovers achieved. and finishing 3rd would still be an achievement in itself.
They have lost one of the "ties" to Zenit. if the lose the next two games...then maybe you could have a point. but i dno... :pShelbourne 04 lost out in the CL playoff to a recent CL semi-finalist. They did not have the luxury of a champions route.

Shelbourne competed well against Lille in the first round proper of the then UEFA Cup. That Lille team went on to finish runners-up in France.

The nature of group stages is that two teams who would have been unseeded previously in knockout get to play each other. Dundalk have benefited from this playing Maccabi compared to teams who entered the old UEFA Cup first round proper who did not get to take on a fellow unseeded team.

Bohemians 00 and Derry 06 also competed admirably in the first round proper of the UEFA Cup. They also did not have the benefit of a group stage to take on an unseeded opponent as well.

It's not too difficult to compare old UEFA Cup first round performances against the Europa League group stage.

Shamrock Rovers should have picked up points against their fellow unseeded level Greek opponents. Their manager, players and supporters are aware of that. Dundalk have obviously done better than Shamrock Rovers in that regard. I understand Dundalk have some of that Shamrock Rovers crew. That experience has obviously stood to those players which is great to see.

[sparky12345678]

Shelbourne 04 lost out in the CL playoff to a recent CL semi-finalist.


Deportiva may have been semi finals the year previously, but that same year they finished bottom of their champions league group on 2 points. And didnt score any goals. Sure Shels got a draw in one leg but resoundingly beaten 3-0 in the second leg.
If we compare results v Legia Warsaw with v Depo, at least Dundalk scored a goal. Not sure about actual performances.
If we compare results v Zeni with v Lille, same result on aggregate. Again not sure about performances but did they come as close as Dundalk did?
Obviously then, taking a few points from the last 2 games might change the comparison.
I am genuinely asking though. Do you thinnk that Shelbourne team would get the same 4 points? Derry? Bohs?

Like I agree that this is not the first time an Irish club has done something special in Europe. I think most people recognise that Shelbourne that year were great with some recognisable names in the team (Wes)... Can we say the same for the Derry/Bohs team?






Shamrock Rovers should have picked up points against their fellow unseeded level Greek opponents. Their manager, players and supporters are aware of that. Dundalk have obviously done better than Shamrock Rovers in that regard. I understand Dundalk have some of that Shamrock Rovers crew. That experience has obviously stood to those players which is great to see.
[/QUOTE]

Obv the experience helps alot. and we agree that performing well again next year would help alot more and it would be nice to see another team do a decent run... and improve their own/the leagues co-efficient (although that all changes for the following year).
I do think that the measuring of the co-efficient is a decent means of gauging European performance. Compare for example Shamrock rovers versus St. Pats over the last 5-10 years. Shamrock rovers had one good year, 2 points, but pats were much more consistent...
Dundalk have greatly improved theirs but still might not be seeded next year... and even if they did, under the current system they would need another good year or more to keep it ticking over.
The new system as i understand it is just adding a 10 year range rather than 5...?

[Nesta99]

That Shels team had quality throughout there is no doubting that and if they had been as prepared as Dundalk are now they could very well have made the impact that they sold the family silver for. Discussion is good and I am getting to grips with where Legends is coming from - It seemed that every comment was to take issue with results and performances in comparison to past one offs. Yes this could be a one off if it isnt built on next year. Yes the format has changed - Dundalk have reached the last 16 of the EC before and the last 32 of the Uefa Cup also. EP there were a few moments v FH and away to BATE so I shall add resilience and belief that got us through those ties. The profile of the League has undoubtedly been improved by Dundalk - this didnt happen with past achievements.

[legendz]

The profile of the League has undoubtedly been improved by Dundalk - this didnt happen with past achievements.That's a compliment to UEFA. The Europa League group stage in part was to appease clubs from the likes of Scotland and the Netherlands who were looking at a separate competition.

The Europa League, while scoffed at across the water and then by Premier League supporters here, has a good standing on the continent. Someone used to post on here years ago saying Belgium for example gave good coverage of their clubs involvement in the competition.

With the LoI having a reasonable record of getting to the old first round proper of the UEFA Cup, the Europa League is an attainable level to get to but naturally very difficult as well given the knockout nature of the qualifiers.

It's been obvious for years that performances in Europe would raise the profile of the league. Some LoI supporters scoff at that.

[Nesta99]

Deliberately obtuse Legendz now!! Just squeeze some pyramid system rhetoric in and you will have ticked all boxes.

[sparky12345678]

That's a compliment to UEFA. The Europa League group stage in part was to appease clubs from the likes of Scotland and the Netherlands who were looking at a separate competition.

It's been obvious for years that performances in Europe would raise the profile of the league. Some LoI supporters scoff at that.

You can really notice the difference between the group stages of the UEFA Cup back in 2000-2008 and these years. There is much more diversity, smaller leagues involved and less monopolised by traditional football countries.
I also agree that there has been the potential for years. Looking at other clubs/countries who were making it in. I def think Irish teams should have better co-effients. If Dudenage can have a co-efficient of 4.975 then so should irish clubs...

Im curious how these new changes will change all that.

[legendz]

St. Pat's of course had a fine run to the UEFA Cup first round in '08 as well competing well against Hearths.

It was only in 2009 that the group stage expanded to 48 and the old first round was scrapped.

[seand]

Whatever about the arguments for Shels and Derry the inclusion of Bohs' "run" in 2000 is bizarre. Bohs got thru one round against an Aberdeen side seeded thanks to Rantic's coefficient. They hadn't even qualified for Europe in 4 or 5 seasons. It was a good season, and a good result in a dead rubber against Kaiserslautern. Not as impressive as Pats' recent runs, imo.

Anyway, Dundalk were in the last 16 of the Champions League (European Cup) a few years back... fact :)

[Nesta99]

It was an interesting few games though - penalty in the 1st leg to give the second away goal. Then second leg with the entire main stand in Tolka full with Aberdeen supporters and before, them being marched toward Dalymount en-masse by the Gardaí and a local chap, oblivious to the game obviously, wearing a Celtic shirt getting fierce abuse at the top of O'Connell Street by a mob of Aberdonians! He was in shock after as he hadnt a notion what had just happened being slagged off for wearing a Celtic shirt in Dublin lol. Bohs hanging on at the end after the traditional own goal and being down to ten men, the siege at the end, Russell making a fingertip save and then the corner and it blazed over the bar from about 10yrds. One of Tolka Parks finest nights for atmosphere. Roddy Collins really believing his own hype and went on to Kaiserslautern, 3 goals in 10 minutes killed the tie totally it was presumed until an injury time goal from Glen Crowe, then an early goal in Germany and should have had the agg score leveled if not getting in front on away goals. Superb performance that night and the Kaiserslautern manager was sacked next day. Got Roddy a few jobs with those few games on his CV. Certainly the Aberdeen game in Tolka was some atmosphere !!!!