League of Ireland in Europe 2016

[pineapple stu]

4-2 genk result

[ger121]

4-2 genk result

You were right. They did blow their best chance to win the tie

[nigel-harps1954]

Massive congrats to Cork. Huge result for them. The main positive to take from a Cork point of view is the cheap travel to Belgium. You can get return flights for close to 100 quid into Brussels these days. Should be able to take a decent away support with them, which will do no harm in a big stadium like Genk.

There's absolutely no reason that they can't go on and take the scalp of the Belgians next.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Cork City record v Swedish teams

P10 W4 D4 L2

[D24Saint]

Happy with our display tonight they were nothing special but after the season we have had I thought we gave it a good go !

[oriel]

Thought that'd be a good idea myself, but possible issues with the ownership still, no?

Regarding prices, I think clubs generally tend to stick a fiver (or more) onto the price of European tickets. What are Pats and Dundalk charging, €20?

For adult tickets, Dundalk charged €25 into main stand and €20 for all other areas for the FH home match, this was an increase of €5 on each ticket price compared to a league game. They were limited to 3,200 tickets, as that's the seating capacity.

With regards to Oriel Pk re-development, the no brainer would be to plough the CL money into the ground, and use it to secure other loans, get grants in place, replace the pitch, install far more seating, build a stand if possible, but as mentioned many times, the owners need to get the lease in their name first. Its probable that the previous owner Matthews is holding out for a pay out, problem is, his price might go up now, but on the flip side (for him) no one else can buy it. It would be great to see some movement on this, as ground redevelopment would be the best option, but its far from straightforward.

Congratulations to Cork tonight, great achievement and no easy tie that, tough on Pats after the excellent away draw.

[legendz]

Congratulations to Cork. Good achievement to make Q3. It matches my expectation for the next best team from our league. Getting to the playoffs will be deserving of huge respect and more noteworthy but it's a big ask.

It's been a good European campaign so far for the league. We've lost only one team at each EL hurdle. If Cork are out at the next stage, Dundalk at the very least will still be there.

[Ezeikial]

Its probable that the previous owner Matthews is holding out for a pay out, problem is, his price might go up now, but on the flip side (for him) no one else can buy it. It would be great to see some movement on this, as ground redevelopment would be the best option, but its far from straightforward.


There is no doubt about it - he has been consistent in looking to sell his interest in the lease since negotiations first started back in 2010/2011

[WoodquayBoy]

Massive congrats to City; and commiserations to Pats. It's been 25 years since my club played in Europe so I envy you your jaunts. Maybe 2018 for us, maybe 2018 . . .

[SPXcyan]

Does that mean Cork have earned about 800k for getting through two rounds? Including the probable knockout money?

Fantastic result anyway, had good craic with my Swedish friend over that result haha

[nigel-harps1954]

Massive congrats to City; and commiserations to Pats. It's been 25 years since my club played in Europe so I envy you your jaunts. Maybe 2018 for us, maybe 2018 . . .

Sure Galway is basically in Europe in 2020.


Does that mean Cork have earned about 800k for getting through two rounds? Including the probable knockout money?

Fantastic result anyway, had good craic with my Swedish friend over that result haha

€630,000 as far as I can make out.

[ger121]

So by my reckoning, that's €2.5 million in prize money LOI sides haves earned in Europe so far. Or about 20 odd League titles in FAI money or indeed JDs salary for about 7/8 years. Depends on your point of view really.

[WoodquayBoy]

Sure Galway is basically in Europe in 2020

Surely a man of your intelligence wasn't sucked in by that joke shop? Just another 'aren't we mighty altogether, now what's the next bandwagon' campaign

[nigel-harps1954]

Surely a man of your intelligence wasn't sucked in by that joke shop? Just another 'aren't we mighty altogether, now what's the next bandwagon' campaign

Don't make me blush with statements like that.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well played, Cork, hard luck junkies. Two best teams in the country by a mile leading the way. Very jealous.

[CraftyToePoke]

hard luck junkies.
Very jealous.

But so magnanimous also :) to give you your dues.

[Colbert Report]

Could someone please provide the figures as towards how much each club has earned in prize money so far and how much Cork and Dundalk could expect to win if they go through again? Thanks.

[The Donie Forde]

No, he scored twice for us (http://www.goal.com/en-ie/match/ucd-vs-cork-city/1426004/report) against Cork (though not three as I said). That was his last game for us, so I presume Cork v Sligo was his next fixture.

Sorry, you're correct - he got 2 for UCD, and then 1 the following game when he had signed for Sligo.

[Charlie Darwin]

But so magnanimous also :) to give you your dues.
I assure you my concern for the junkies is purely rooted in social justice.

[nigel-harps1954]

Could someone please provide the figures as towards how much each club has earned in prize money so far and how much Cork and Dundalk could expect to win if they go through again? Thanks.

As far as I can see, so far: (Based on 2015-16 figures)

Shamrock Rovers: Beaten in Rd 1 Europa League: €200,000
St Patrick's Athletic: Beaten in Rd 2 Europa League: €410,000

Cork City: Through to Rd 3. If beaten, €630,000. If they progress to the play-off round, guaranteed €860,000, with an extra €2.6m should they make group stages giving a total in that case of €3.46m

Dundalk: €900,000 for reaching Rd 3 Qualifiers in Champions League. If beaten by BATE Borisov, they'll bank €230,000 extra minimum for the Europa League play-off round, giving a total of €1.13m. A win against BATE however, is worth €3m on top of the previous €900k in CL money alone and straight into EL group stage which banks an extra €2.4m. So, one more Champions League win for Dundalk is worth €6.3 million by my count. Two more wins is worth €12.9 million.

I stand to be corrected on any of the above.

[Colbert Report]

Many thanks for providing those figures. Any idea what the total annual squad wages are for the clubs in the LOI? Are these figures available? I live in America and all professional sports teams publish all of the salaries of their players, which I realize is not the case in Ireland or indeed in football generally in Europe, but I'm trying to get some kind of idea as to just how big this prize money is to the clubs.
?
What would stop someone coming in, investing ten million euro into the wage budget with the intent of making a tidy profit should a club progress into the CL group stages proper?

[Pablo Escobar]

Cork City record v Swedish teams

P10 W4 D4 L2

You'd never guess it from the way they talk about us. They seem to think that they will walk all over us, whenever we've played a Swedish club. Let's keep it that way.

[Guitd]

As far as I can see, so far: (Based on 2015-16 figures)

Shamrock Rovers: Beaten in Rd 1 Europa League: €200,000
St Patrick's Athletic: Beaten in Rd 2 Europa League: €410,000

Cork City: Through to Rd 3. If beaten, €630,000. If they progress to the play-off round, guaranteed €860,000, with an extra €2.6m should they make group stages giving a total in that case of €3.46m

Dundalk: €900,000 for reaching Rd 3 Qualifiers in Champions League. If beaten by BATE Borisov, they'll bank €230,000 extra minimum for the Europa League play-off round, giving a total of €1.13m. A win against BATE however, is worth €3m on top of the previous €900k in CL money alone and straight into EL group stage which banks an extra €2.4m. So, one more Champions League win for Dundalk is worth €6.3 million by my count. Two more wins is worth €12.9 million.

I stand to be corrected on any of the above.

You can also add to that the money from gate receipts plus extra sponsorship ?

[pineapple stu]

You'd have to take away travel costs as well of course.

Though for Cork, a gate of 5000 v Hacken would go a hell of a long way to covering the flight to Sweden.

Either way, getting into decent, if not yet game-changing, territory.

[pineapple stu]

Hearts and Hibs out. Least Hibs went down fighting. Hearts, awful stuff... Really are very few easy games in Europe now amongst the 'lesser' teams.
Remember Birkirkara, who beat Hearts, took West Ham to a penalty shoot-out this time last year.

I think it was West Ham reserves mainly, but still - Birkirkara are a vaguely decent team, and the SPL is gone embarrassingly bad.

At least Aberdeen had a comfortable win, but they did scrape past a Luxembourg team the previous round.

[pineapple stu]

Also, the details for the next round of fixtures are currently -

BATE v Dundalk; Tue 26 July; 8pm local time
Dundalk v BATE; Tue 2 August in Tallaght; time TBC I think, but presumably 7:45

Genk v Cork; Thu 28 July; time TBC
Cork v Genk; Thu 4 August in Turner's Cross; time TBC

[Real ale Madrid]

Remember Birkirkara, who beat Hearts, took West Ham to a penalty shoot-out this time last year.

I think it was West Ham reserves mainly, but still - Birkirkara are a vaguely decent team, and the SPL is gone embarrassingly bad.

At least Aberdeen had a comfortable win, but they did scrape past a Luxembourg team the previous round.

Hibs did pretty well though in fairness to them. They are still a 2nd tier side who won away in Denmark. SPL is not as bad as it was a few years ago tbh.

[paul_oshea]

Many thanks for providing those figures. Any idea what the total annual squad wages are for the clubs in the LOI? Are these figures available? I live in America and all professional sports teams publish all of the salaries of their players, which I realize is not the case in Ireland or indeed in football generally in Europe, but I'm trying to get some kind of idea as to just how big this prize money is to the clubs.
?
What would stop someone coming in, investing ten million euro into the wage budget with the intent of making a tidy profit should a club progress into the CL group stages proper?

Thats been tried a few times by the clubs/club owners to the detrimental effect of the clubs and the owners in some cases. It's not just a case of throwing 6 million at it will get you CL football, the quality and a whole lot of other aspects would need to change and improve.

What I have noticed over the years, with the teams that are seeded(greater co-eff) above(slightly or medium above) against the Irish sides, and whose budget is not that much greater than LOI sides, is that they are dotted with "internationals", players of a slightly higher calbire and greater technical ability than the Irish sides. These are hardly playing for world class International sides, but they will have experience of playing international football and at a higher level, what I would ask is what are these guys being paid to live in countries not as appealing as Ireland? I'd hazard a guess that they aren't being paid much more if in fact any. Maybe a change of mindset/thinking or a radical approach to improving the quality of the league by attracting some of these type players. Ireland is a good place to live, a great place to raise a family, decent schools and Health system and certainly more attractive than half of these Eastern european countries running on post-commie "democracies".

From watching the Irish sides the last couple of years, they are competing in the midfield area, and somewhat up front, but its the defense that makes the difference to these bigger sides. It's definitely becoming a closer playing field.

There seems to be a little more interest the last couple of years also from the "general"(soccer fans in Ireland) public, I can even see it in my mates back home, maybe its post euro blues or something, but they watched the Dundalk game. Thats an effort to go find a steam, nevermind turning on a channel on tv, something they wouldn't have even considered two years ago. I'm sure they would have watched the Cork game had it been on, but some even listened to cork fm!!:D

[pineapple stu]

Hibs did pretty well though in fairness to them. They are still a 2nd tier side who won away in Denmark. SPL is not as bad as it was a few years ago tbh.
Very good result alright.

Then Celtic lose to Lincoln of course! Celtic who got through the CL groups a few years back?

I guess the SPL in Europe is suffering from not having Rangers.

Fun thread on the Hearts forum about some fan who got his visa for Krasnodar in the third round before last night's match. Always one. :)

[pineapple stu]

Dave McMillan the joint-top scorer in the 2016/17 Champions' League at present (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_UEFA_Champions_League_qualifying_p hase_and_play-off_round#Top_goalscorers). :)

[Dodge]

In running club co-efficient for next season

Dundalk 4.090
St Patrick's Athletic 4.090
Sligo Rovers 3.090
Shamrock Rovers 2.840
Cork City 2.340
Derry City 2.090
UCD 1.590
Bohemians 1.340
Drogheda 1.340
All others 1.090

National 5.450

[paul_oshea]

Dave McMillan the joint-top scorer in the 2016/17 Champions' League at present (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_UEFA_Champions_League_qualifying_p hase_and_play-off_round#Top_goalscorers). :)

It worked for Pjaca! Getting two goals:

On 21 July 2016 it was announced that Pjaca signed a five-year contract with Juventus for a fee of €23 million.[8] With the transfer, Pjaca became the most expensive ever sale by Dinamo Zagreb and the 1. HNL.[9]

The chairman involved with zagreb is corrupt as hell supposedly , that was the reason for the croats going mental in the 80th minute, it was a protest against him and how he runs Dinamo and the national association, modric brought him to court. He gets a massive slice of all these players transfers and makes out that he is doing it to reinvest, yet is a multi-millionaire.

The Italians seem to buy into the balkan leagues, the same way as England does with Ireland.

[pineapple stu]

I don't ever recall an English club paying €23m for a LoI player.

I don't think the comparison is valid!

[paul_oshea]

I am having a bit of a disagreement with my former yugoslav countries mates about that exact thing.

In Croatia, its really only dinamo is their argument that can get these players, as they scoop up all the young talent. Hadjuk for example sell them much younger to Italy/France/Germany, for example Perisic who was a hit at the Euros, he went to france quite young, for little money but it keeps Hadjuk afloat, their accounts are frozen half the time. Still Hadjuk would look down on LOI sides generally, like when Dundalk got them over there and won, they were confident bordering on cocky afterwards in the interviews. Most clubs bar Dinamo though survive in a similar fashion to LOI clubs, but get better transfer fees for their product. The leagues are full of Scouts from Italy, and less so Germany. Similar to serbia as well, and even BiH have players playing all over too.

A lot of the grounds cocindentally are "community" owned in these leagues too.

I wonder what kind of sell on clauses they have. Maybe just former yugoslva/balkan players are more appreciated/respected in the European leagues.

Whats interesting is our head to head with Croatia, we technically win on goals scored by a whole +1 :D So its fair to suggest we are a similar level over the last 20 years - bar a few spectacular individuals. Their players sell for far more money than ours though.

[oriel]

There is no doubt about it - he has been consistent in looking to sell his interest in the lease since negotiations first started back in 2010/2011

I should have clarified, GM is probably holding out for an unreasonable amount to sell his interest in the lease. He of course will not be handing it over for nothing.

[oriel]

Dave McMillan the joint-top scorer in the 2016/17 Champions' League at present (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_UEFA_Champions_League_qualifying_p hase_and_play-off_round#Top_goalscorers). :)

3 goals in his last 2 CL games, 4 in last 4, plus he has scored away to BATE last year. I think he is also Dundalk's all time top Euro goal scorer now with 4?

[paul_oshea]

I should have clarified, GM is probably holding out for an unreasonable amount to sell his interest in the lease. He of course will not be handing it over for nothing.

Well thats like a problem with being a victim of your own success, the better they do, the more money they get, the more money they will want..

It seems like one of the few grounds in Ireland that has land around it, which would allow for different types of development within the football club itself.

[Dodge]

3 goals in his last 2 CL games, 4 in last 4, plus he has scored away to BATE last year. I think he is also Dundalk's all time top Euro goal scorer now with 4?

He's Dundalk's top scorer in Europe, and he's only one behind Byrne and Crowe with 5 as the top LOI scorer in European Cup/Champions League

https://statsthatarepointless.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/full-list-of-scorers-for-league-of-ireland-clubs-in-european-competition/

[Viking]

Congratulations on Cork knocking out BK Arse (That's Häcken in English)

Apparently Irish clubs and then especially Cork doesn't suit our clubs at all. (Malmö & Djurgården in the past have also been defeated by Cork as you know)

I take an Icelandic one any day over an Irish one. Just check the stats. ;)

And from what I heard Cork fight to their last drop and was well deserved of the victory. While Häcken had most of the possession and tried to pass the ball around without creating too much. Some chances, but not enough. Cork just didn't gave them all that much.

Both their coach and the scouting staff get lots of heat after this debacle. Which it is for a nation ranked #18 (well #19 today) to have their asses kicked by one ranked #41 And from a much smaller club when it comes to finances, etc... Häcken is a rather rich club thanks to Gothia Cup (the worlds biggest youth tournament) which is theirs for instance. And therefore can afford to sign rather good players. But at the same time, they are a small club in Sweden when it comes to support. And they don't get much focus from the media either.

Anyway, we had some hope of climbing in the ranks this year. Not anymore, now we instead need to cushion the blow. Only two teams left now. Same as you guys. So I guess we're not any better then. And you also have one guaranteed in the EL-PO. Not something we can brag with.

Best of luck against Genk, who barely survived their match up. Shouldn't be an impossible task. (And also good luck against Bate in the CL)

[shep]

Just looking at the full 3rd round qualifying,I really don't think We could have got any better draw in a sense that we already know a lot about BATE,and secondly of all the other remaining seeded teams,there are not many that I would fancy regardless. I presume we are the lowest ranked team left in the competition??

[jinxy lilywhite]

I should have clarified, GM is probably holding out for an unreasonable amount to sell his interest in the lease. He of course will not be handing it over for nothing.

But he is holding out for an unreasonable price if the club aren't willing to pay for it.

Besides the point this has gone legal between Des Casey and Gerry Matthews. The club are in theory outside the loop but the most affected by it

[pineapple stu]

I presume we are the lowest ranked team left in the competition??

Partizane Tirane are seeded lower and are still in.

Cork are the lowest-ranked team left in the Europa League (seeded behind Birkirkara of Malta, Jelgava of Latvia and Nomme Kalju of Estonia!)

[El-Pietro]

Partizane Tirane are seeded lower and are still in.

Cork are the lowest-ranked team left in the Europa League (seeded behind Birkirkara of Malta, Jelgava of Latvia and Nomme Kalju of Estonia!)
Largely due to a lack of recent European history. 1 Point this year though goes a long way to getting us seeded a couple of years from now. Though we will need to keep getting favourable draws.

[pineapple stu]

This is true. Ye had what - just the one draw with KR last year to add?

Birkirkara had five draws and two wins to add, which makes a huge difference.

[paul_oshea]

Congratulations on Cork knocking out BK Arse (That's Häcken in English)

Apparently Irish clubs and then especially Cork doesn't suit our clubs at all. (Malmö & Djurgården in the past have also been defeated by Cork as you know)


Hammarby, hammarby, hammarby. :P

They did go through before.

Gothia is huge though, over 1700 teams played last year and generated huge revenue.

[El-Pietro]

This is true. Ye had what - just the one draw with KR last year to add?

Birkirkara had five draws and two wins to add, which makes a huge difference.

Wins and draws don't matter for club coefficient. Its about how far you progress. We went out in the first round last year so 0.25 points, you get 0.5 for getting to the second round, 1 point for getting to the third.

Individual Wins and draws factor into the league coefficient, which each club from that league then gets 20% of.

We have now contributed the third most to the League coefficient for next season, behind St Pats and Dundalk.

St. Pats 1.25
Dundalk 1.1
Cork City: 0.85
Sligo Rovers: 0.75
Shamrock Rovers: 0.55
Derry City: 0.5
UCD: 0.2
Bohemian F.C.: 0.125
Drogheda United: 0.125

The 0.75 we have contributed in 2016 (2 wins, 2 draws) represents 50% of the total for this season so far. It is also the joint most in the past 5 seasons, tied with Dundalk in 2014 (3 Wins and).

[pineapple stu]

Oh. Didn't know that.

Just looking at Birkirkara - it all adds up except 2013/14, when they got 1.000 points more than the country coefficient despite getting knocked out at the first stage (QR2 of the Champions' League)

Is the CL worth more?

[ger121]

Oh. Didn't know that.

Just looking at Birkirkara - it all adds up except 2013/14, when they got 1.000 points more than the country coefficient despite getting knocked out at the first stage (QR2 of the Champions' League)

Is the CL worth more?

I didn't know that either when looking at club co-efficients on Bert's site. Makes sense now. I think maybe the CL is worth more, unless it's the fact they are starting in QR2.

[pineapple stu]

Starting in QR2 - so getting points for "passing" QR1 - would help, but wouldn't make the difference up entirely (0.500 per El-Pietro above)

So maybe CL is worth twice EL?

Would make sense in fairness.

[paul_oshea]

Wins and draws don't matter for club coefficient. Its about how far you progress. We went out in the first round last year so 0.25 points, you get 0.5 for getting to the second round, 1 point for getting to the third.

Individual Wins and draws factor into the league coefficient, which each club from that league then gets 20% of.

We have now contributed the third most to the League coefficient for next season, behind St Pats and Dundalk.

St. Pats 1.25
Dundalk 1.1
Cork City: 0.85
Sligo Rovers: 0.75
Shamrock Rovers: 0.55
Derry City: 0.5
UCD: 0.2
Bohemian F.C.: 0.125
Drogheda United: 0.125

The 0.75 we have contributed in 2016 (2 wins, 2 draws) represents 50% of the total for this season so far. It is also the joint most in the past 5 seasons, tied with Dundalk in 2014 (3 Wins and).

Are the individual club co-efficents for eternity:?! :)