League of Ireland in Europe 2016

[El-Pietro]

Oh. Didn't know that.

Just looking at Birkirkara - it all adds up except 2013/14, when they got 1.000 points more than the country coefficient despite getting knocked out at the first stage (QR2 of the Champions' League)

Is the CL worth more?

You get 0.500 for playing in the first round of the CL and 1 point for playing in the second round
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Club_coefficient

[El-Pietro]

Are the individual club co-efficents for eternity:?! :)

I'm not sure I understand your question. Coefficient from a single year lasts for 5 years.

[paul_oshea]

Ya ye answered it, the national co-efficients and club co-efficients last 5 years. I was wondering was it just the National that was 5 and club could last longer.

[seand]

Dave McMillan the joint-top scorer in the 2016/17 Champions' League at present (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_UEFA_Champions_League_qualifying_p hase_and_play-off_round#Top_goalscorers). :)

McMillan's on fire! Champions League is terrfied! Repeat ad nauseum in Reykjavik while tourists record the singalong on their mobile

What a great couple of days, amazing country and city..... and then there was the football. Thought we were poor at home and in the first half but pulled out a great 30 minutes second half. Last 15 minutes of torture lasted an eternity. We put a lot of work into that tie and if we'd not gone through we'd have been looking back on it in 10, 20 years with bitter regret.

Great to see Cork go through as well, it really is a case that a rising tide can left all boats. Get a few decent results one season and one or two more teams might be seeded the following season. Meaning a better chance of getting a few decent results... etc

[Nesta99]

There seems to be a little more interest the last couple of years also from the "general"(soccer fans in Ireland) public, I can even see it in my mates back home, maybe its post euro blues or something, but they watched the Dundalk game. Thats an effort to go find a steam, nevermind turning on a channel on tv, something they wouldn't have even considered two years ago. I'm sure they would have watched the Cork game had it been on, but some even listened to cork fm!!:D

I was thinking a bit about that myself, the kind of intangible benefit of results in Europe especially this season. The day after Dundalk progressing the back page headline in the Irish Independent was about ....Dundalk progressing in the CL (good man Dan McDonnell). The other papers also had equal billing type back page headlines. Today's back pages have Corks progression in EL as one of the 2 headlines with the appointment of the English national manager. Inside the Sun there is a full page on Dundalk and the game with BATE and another page on Celtic playing Astana but the banner across the top "Dundalk and Celtic march on". So its a mixed bag, and some of todays papers wouldnt be out of place in corner shops across London. But there is definitely a more serious 'attention' given to the LoI side's participation, including St Pat's efforts. The language used is less patronising and in the St Pat's match reports there is little of the 'plucky effort' type stuff that you see rolled out. It is the likes of Hearts who bore the brunt with an 'embarrassing' defeat, the first Scottish side to be beaten by a Maltese side - lazy journalism as Birkirkara weren't a surprise to go through really. Hibs efforts got the 'plucky' treatment! It may be fleeting and we shouldn't be surprised to being featured in our sports media but you would often wonder if they even knew Irish teams were playing and representing our country at times! Yes you would think that Celtic was an Irish club going on the banner but at least it included Dundalk rather than a basic lip-service effort. I have experienced a bit of a change in attitude myself with people asking about streams, tickets etc for games from friends and family who wouldn't have bothered that much at all previously. At most it was 'what was the result/was it a good game' but this year it was very much 'where can I watch the game or will you get me a ticket'. More than prior to the cup final too which certainly attracts out the bandwagon.

The success breeding success stuff is adding up, get the good draw, progress and it could get a little easier than at the same point previous season. Sustainable back to back titles or European qualification rather than titles and Europe being 'shared' across the league with 7 or 8 winners in a decade. Good to have a competitive league but with the mediocrity of domestic prize money to win consecutive titles both financially and potential seeding improvement and subsequent improvement in the chances to progress in Europe kinda helps the league as a whole? Profile and even credibility with the most fickle sporting enthusiast public that exists lifts. Easy to say stuff like this when champions I know but this season in Europe has some sort of order to it with the top 2 clubs arguably performing best and obviously progressing furthest in respective completion and others putting in admirable performances, Rovers being the blot on the copybook. There is also reason to be optimistic in forthcoming ties albeit tough asks especially for Dundalk but with some luck in the draw for the EL play-off it isnt a total outside bet - but lets hope that we really bloody BATE's collective noses, they certainly deserve it after their antics last year, thrwing elbows and trying to find fights when the tie was done...the poorest most unsavoury shower of winners Ive seen!! As an aside i'm delighted for Cork and with Cork's result last night as at least we wont be the only side with a fixture headache and no better than the bunch that are on your tail in the league :p

Didn't realise €6.3million was the potential of EL group stages and we have the leagues top 2 clubs in with a shout - to use a worn out phrase it is game changer money! For Dundalk its really already spent in a way with most likely playing catch-up with facilities, for Cork with Turners Cross the best ground in the league imo, well what an amount of money to have to figure out what to do with! €6.3million or whatever figure around that that prizemoney might be is about €100k in annual interest at a little under 1% AER, so a bit like winning the league every year in terms of income....it'd pay for flare fines and replacement seating at least ;) It is good to dream!!

[Real ale Madrid]

Kick-off for next weeks tie in Genk confirmed at 8.00pm local time. 7pm Irish time.

[pineapple stu]

Didn't realise €6.3million was the potential of EL group stages and we have the leagues top 2 clubs in with a shout

€3.2m if Dundalk get to the Europa League and lose every game I think. Breakdown here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Europa_League#Prize_money)

Where'd you see €6.3m?

Still, way above even what Rovers got five years ago.

[Ezeikial]

He's Dundalk's top scorer in Europe, and he's only one behind Byrne and Crowe with 5 as the top LOI scorer in European Cup/Champions League

https://statsthatarepointless.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/full-list-of-scorers-for-league-of-ireland-clubs-in-european-competition/

If only he was not such a "limited" player................

[paul_oshea]

So uefa and the sky leagues, and all the european leagues awash with money is not in fact a bad thing, nor is UEFAs statement that 75% of all monies is put back into football....Discuss :D

I think stu you've made a good point, the generated income should be put to use for the long term, not put into short term gain - which is short term and nothings left from it in 5-10 years down the line.

The long term planning in 3.6 or 6.3 million is put it in fixed interest or index related instrument getting 3% a year, using it to pay the running and/or improvement of facilities. Short term would be buying a few players or paying a good bit more to keep the best lads, and nothing to show for it down the road. Progress is not just measured in short term success. Medals or titles or leagues.

[orielabu]

Has McMillan’s 3 goals over the two legs been bettered/equalled by a LOI player?

[disgruntled]

Great win for City last night.
Sorry that Pats didn't quite make it but a very brave effort.

[disgruntled]

Thats been tried a few times by the clubs/club owners to the detrimental effect of the clubs and the owners in some cases. It's not just a case of throwing 6 million at it will get you CL football, the quality and a whole lot of other aspects would need to change and improve.

What I have noticed over the years, with the teams that are seeded(greater co-eff) above(slightly or medium above) against the Irish sides, and whose budget is not that much greater than LOI sides, is that they are dotted with "internationals", players of a slightly higher calbire and greater technical ability than the Irish sides. These are hardly playing for world class International sides, but they will have experience of playing international football and at a higher level, what I would ask is what are these guys being paid to live in countries not as appealing as Ireland? I'd hazard a guess that they aren't being paid much more if in fact any. Maybe a change of mindset/thinking or a radical approach to improving the quality of the league by attracting some of these type players. Ireland is a good place to live,a great place to raise a family, decent schools and Health system and certainly more attractive than half of these Eastern european countries running on post-commie "democracies".

From watching the Irish sides the last couple of years, they are competing in the midfield area, and somewhat up front, but its the defense that makes the difference to these bigger sides. It's definitely becoming a closer playing field.

There seems to be a little more interest the last couple of years also from the "general"(soccer fans in Ireland) public, I can even see it in my mates back home, maybe its post euro blues or something, but they watched the Dundalk game. Thats an effort to go find a steam, nevermind turning on a channel on tv, something they wouldn't have even considered two years ago. I'm sure they would have watched the Cork game had it been on, but some even listened to cork fm!!:D

Yes if you can afford to pay for it. Ireland is no different to most countries. If you have money then you can get anything you want.
Its a hard struggle for anyone in Ireland depending on the state services.
Unless you have health insurance over here you'd be well dead before getting an appointment to see anyone. Likewise with any kind of decent schooling where you'd need a mortgage to give your children any kind of decent chance.

[nigel-harps1954]

€3.2m if Dundalk get to the Europa League and lose every game I think. Breakdown here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Europa_League#Prize_money)

Where'd you see €6.3m?

Still, way above even what Rovers got five years ago.

If Dundalk get past BATE and lose the play-off round, they'll go straight into the EL Group stages, worth €6.3 million in that case.

[TheBoss]

Has McMillan’s 3 goals over the two legs been bettered/equalled by a LOI player?

Jason Byrne got 4 goals (2 in each) for Shelbourne against Glentoran.
Rory Patterson got 4 goals (3 in 1st, 1 in 2nd) for Derry City against Aberystwyth Town.

Billy Dixon got 3 goals over 2 legs twice, once for Drumcondra and once for Shamrock Rovers.

[pineapple stu]

If Dundalk get past BATE and lose the play-off round, they'll go straight into the EL Group stages, worth €6.3 million in that case.
Ah, ok - I had been working off losing to BATE and winning the play-off round. Christ, that's huge money then.

[kksaints]

Fabio O'Brien got 4 for Pats in 2 ties in the Europa League in 2009.

[placid casual]

Dundalk have very very little chance against BATE.
If they had to fall over the line against a pi$$ poor icelandic team it does not bode well.

the draw they will receive for the europa league knock out will determine their fate, but i wouldnt be expecting some mickey mouse club.
they have done well to progress.

[Nesta99]

Dundalk have very very little chance against BATE.
If they had to fall over the line against a pi$$ poor icelandic team it does not bode well.

the draw they will receive for the europa league knock out will determine their fate, but i wouldnt be expecting some mickey mouse club.
they have done well to progress.

I agree but the best attitude is to think of nothing but winning. Dundalk support in general know well the difficulty of the task but much like the players and management we shouldn't be thinking we're done before a ball is kicked.

[jinxy lilywhite]

Exactly however unlikely there is always a chance!!!!!!!!!!!

[Charlie Darwin]

Dundalk aren't the team they were last year, but they've generally been making up for it through Horgan and McMillan stepping up. The worry now is the defence is really creaking. Shields would normally be the answer, but he went into BATE undercooked last year and made two bad mistakes. Be interesting to see if Kenny makes the same calls this year he did last year.

[bennocelt]

It depends on how well the team is set up. A lot of football these days is rubbish, its more about the system than the players, just look at the Euros. Bate weren't amazing last year and with a bit of luck Dundalk could have had them. On the day anything can happen. Keep it tight next week, and then 90 minutes in Tallaght, who knows...:)

[TheBoss]

I just don't get this BATE praise on here. They are a good team no doubting that but their not this unbeatable team that some are portraying. The reason for their good results over the years in the Champions League group stages is that they like to play ultra defensive with counter attacking (Gordeichuk & Stasevich being the focal point in those attacks which they are excellent at). But even with that defensive strategy, they conceded 132 shots in those 6 games, which is 22 shots a game. They created 40 shots, averaging 6/7 shots per game in last seasons group stage.

But as a team that is given the incentive to try and break down a so called inferior side they do struggle and give up chances, just look at the qualifying results over the last few seasons. Since 2011, they have drawn or lost games against Linfield, Ekranas, Sturm Graz, Vardar, Debrecen, Ironi Kiryat Shmona, Skënderbeu*2, Dundalk, Videoton & Partizan. That is a lot of games in 5 seasons that they failed to win. Like last season, if Dundalk are organised, they will have a chance but that appears to be Dundalk's weakness at the moment!

[gufcfan]

Interesting points TheBoss.

I notice they've played 10 games at home this season in league and cup. They only conceded in one of them v Dinamo Minsk (3-3) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4rY6eS5D8A).

On the flip-side, they've played 12 away games and conceded in 10 of them. If you count the HJK game, they have only won 2 of their last 6 away games. One of those was a loss against a team that were in the relegation zone before their win against BATE and they let in 3 goals that night. Lost the following game against a mid-table team too.

Alexander Hleb signed back with them in the last few days. Two trips to LOI grounds for him this year!

[Conroy]

Any idea how much it cost St Pats to use a few years ago? Just the cost rental.

[legendz]

These qualifying rounds are essentially cup competitions for LoI teams. Dundalk and Cork are into European semi-final rounds. That's the way I look upon it. Shamrock Rovers winning the EL playoff a few years ago was there European Cup.

The Cork City manager was complaining about poor marketing for the league earlier in the summer. European runs like Dundalk and Cork create their own good marketing for the league on the field of play. One swallow doesn't make a summer though. It would need to be on a more consistent basis. Ideally the league should not to be dependent on European runs to raise the awareness and profile of the league but it seems to be where the league is.

[pineapple stu]

These qualifying rounds are essentially cup competitions for LoI teams.
So you're saying these knock-out competitions are essentially knock-out competitions?

Deep stuff there.


If you count the HJK game, they have only won 2 of their last 6 away games.
Slight point of order - they played SJK, not HJK. HJK are traditionally the biggest club in Finland; SJK were formed 8 years ago after a local merger, started in the third tier and won the top flight for the first time last year. (You should of course know this as a Galway fan - Tommy Dunne was their first manager!)

I don't know if drawing with SJK makes BATE even less fearsome than drawing with HJK - and of course, they were 2-0 up and 4-0 up on aggregate, so can be excused for going to sleep.

BATE have lost just four league matches in the past 2½ seasons, took four points off Roma in the Champions' League group stages, drew with Leverkusen and lost home and away to Barca, though "just" 5-0 on aggregate. They're a really formiddable side, even allowing for the scare Dundalk gave them last year.

I'd like to think Cork and Dundalk have one more match win left between them though.

[wonder88]

Delighted for Dundalk and Cork(especially Stephen Kenny), but a couple of drawbacks. The disruption to the fixtures of the clubs not in Europe. This could be sorted by better planning and allowing/assisting the clubs left idle to have friendly fixtures against English clubs popular in Ireland. I am surprised that not more notice have been taken of the 3k crowd at the Shels/Leeds game at Tolka Park. I found this figure impressive. Would Shels have made much of a profit from the game?
The other drawback/problem is harder to sort, and this is the money made by the clubs if they win a few games in Europe. Is there a gap between clubs who qualify regularly and the rest and will it get wider in future. Of the 4 clubs who took part in Europe this year 3 of them are in the top four in the league table this season with over half the schedule played. How would Dundalk and Cork fans feel about a solidarity payment of say 25% of their euro money to be divided between the other 16 loI clubs?

[Nesta99]

How would Dundalk and Cork fans feel about a solidarity payment of say 25% of their euro money to be divided between the other 16 loI clubs?

As i've said before on things like this, fair enough but not until Dundalk current stock has fallen to mid table, then yes work away. The reality is that it is not up to the clubs that have managed to break through long term obscurity, like Dundalk, to have to give a leg up to others. The same sort of stuff was discussed of worried about when Rovers were in the EL groups and rightly so Rovers fans were salivating at significantly adding to their roll of honour. It didnt work out that way but on this occasion if Dundalk make the next round or EL groups the financial reward gives an ability to remain one of the top sides in the country with probable ambition to catch Rovers league title haul.

Ah Stu give legendz a break here, what he is obviously getting at is that the qualifying rounds for LoI clubs is the equivalent of the quarter/semi/final of the entire competition for the top European clubs in relative terms.

[pineapple stu]

Ah Stu give legendz a break here, what he is obviously getting at is that the qualifying rounds for LoI clubs is the equivalent of the quarter/semi/final of the entire competition for the top European clubs in relative terms.
Yeah, I know - just legendz does specialise in the remarkably bland and obvious at times!

[disgruntled]

Delighted for Dundalk and Cork(especially Stephen Kenny), but a couple of drawbacks. The disruption to the fixtures of the clubs not in Europe. This could be sorted by better planning and allowing/assisting the clubs left idle to have friendly fixtures against English clubs popular in Ireland. I am surprised that not more notice have been taken of the 3k crowd at the Shels/Leeds game at Tolka Park. I found this figure impressive. Would Shels have made much of a profit from the game?
The other drawback/problem is harder to sort, and this is the money made by the clubs if they win a few games in Europe. Is there a gap between clubs who qualify regularly and the rest and will it get wider in future. Of the 4 clubs who took part in Europe this year 3 of them are in the top four in the league table this season with over half the schedule played. How would Dundalk and Cork fans feel about a solidarity payment of say 25% of their euro money to be divided between the other 16 loI clubs?

Wasn't there something about this from the PCA ?
Not sure if it was the same thing as its some time ago since we heard from the PCA.

[White Horse]

How would Dundalk and Cork fans feel about a solidarity payment of say 25% of their euro money to be divided between the other 16 loI clubs?

A solidarity payment in a league where clubs cut each other throats over transfer fees and compensation?

[legendz]

So you're saying these knock-out competitions are essentially knock-out competitions?

Deep stuff there.
Enjoy watching your local LoI team in action and have a nice day!

[gufcfan]

Slight point of order - they played SJK, not HJK. HJK are traditionally the biggest club in Finland; SJK were formed 8 years ago after a local merger, started in the third tier and won the top flight for the first time last year. (You should of course know this as a Galway fan - Tommy Dunne was their first manager!)

It was a typo.

[ger121]

Gartland and O'Donnell are big losses for Dundalk. That lad Boyle?? Who replaced Gartland is a weak link in that defence. Least from what I've seen watching both legs.

Having said that, I think BATE are not the be all and end all. Yes CL regulars and have taken some points off big sides but as said above, they can also lose/draw against teams they should expect to beat.

If the tie is alive in Tallaght, they have one hell of a chance and that's something to look forward to.

[ger121]

It was a typo.

Nice save;)

[White Horse]

Interesting interview with Stephen Kenny on Newstalk this afternoon.

When asked if he was disappointed that the game was in Tallaght and not Oriel , he replied he was disappointed that the FAI were not holding it in the Aviva and promoting the hell out of it.

[Charlie Darwin]

Interesting interview with Stephen Kenny on Newstalk this afternoon.

When asked if he was disappointed that the game was in Tallaght and not Oriel , he replied he was disappointed that the FAI were not holding it in the Aviva and promoting the hell out of it.
What?! Holding it in the Aviva would be ridiculous.

[pineapple stu]

Why would the FAI actively get involved with one club's European campaign?

[White Horse]

Why would the FAI actively get involved with one club's European campaign?

To showcase their league to a currently disinterested Irish football public?

[pineapple stu]

Why would they do that and not promote Cork's match though?

Sorry, the FAI can be blamed for lots of things, but they can't be blamed for not running and promoting your match.

[ger121]

Why would they do that and not promote Cork's match though?

Sorry, the FAI can be blamed for lots of things, but they can't be blamed for not running and promoting your match.

Sure they don't even promote the FAI Cup final, the 'Blue Ribbon' event in the domestic calendar.

[Colbert Report]

I'm reading about Kolo Toure signing for Celtic and the articles keep mentioning that each club are allowed to bring in one "wild card" player for the coming European matches. What does this mean? Surely Dundalk are allowed to sign any player they wish and that player would be eligible to play in any match as we are currently in an open transfer period? Can someone please explain this to me? Cheers.

[El-Pietro]

I'm reading about Kolo Toure signing for Celtic and the articles keep mentioning that each club are allowed to bring in one "wild card" player for the coming European matches. What does this mean? Surely Dundalk are allowed to sign any player they wish and that player would be eligible to play in any match as we are currently in an open transfer period? Can someone please explain this to me? Cheers.

You name a 25 man squad before your first round. You can add one new player per round after that, up to the day before the first leg.

[Colbert Report]

Many thanks!

[pineapple stu]

Sure they don't even promote the FAI Cup final, the 'Blue Ribbon' event in the domestic calendar.
Blue Riband. :)

Just thinking though - apart from that fact that Dundalk v BATE would look silly in Lansdowne Road (I'm thinking Shels v Lille, but emptier), especially if Dundalk are out of it by the time of the second leg, and apart from the fact that it would struggle to break even as an event, thereby costing Dundalk thousands, and apart from the fact that Dundalk would be much better served by keeping this as a regular game in a regular LoI ground they're used to - can Dundalk even nominate Lansdowne Road at this stage? I think someone said earlier in the thread that you have to nominate your 3-star/4-star grounds at the start of the campaign?

[dundalkfc10]

Gartland and O'Donnell are big losses for Dundalk. That lad Boyle?? Who replaced Gartland is a weak link in that defence. Least from what I've seen watching both legs.

Having said that, I think BATE are not the be all and end all. Yes CL regulars and have taken some points off big sides but as said above, they can also lose/draw against teams they should expect to beat.

If the tie is alive in Tallaght, they have one hell of a chance and that's something to look forward to.

Boyle has started every game this season, and is our vice captain.
Think you mean Barrett!

O Donnell is not out of the BATE game either

[ger121]

Boyle has started every game this season, and is our vice captain.
Think you mean Barrett!

O Donnell is not out of the BATE game either

Knew it began with a B but Boyle popped into my head.

Eir were saying during the game when O' Donnell was booked, that he'd miss the next match. Is that not the case?

[ger121]

Blue Riband. :)

Oops!! Eh, I'd had a few by the time I wrote Ribbon :)

[ger121]

A little extra cash for the teams in Europe. Every little helps....

http://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/irish-clubs-2m-prize-points-to-greater-incentives-34907007.html

[paul_oshea]

Barrett is from waterford but hes definitely been a weak link doesnt look very confident probably just lackikg experience what age is he 22 or so?