League of Ireland in Europe 2016

[paul_oshea]

Lads anyone got a video or highlights anywhere , i was in st mungos and didnt get out so missed it all ;(

The quote from rte was good on a night when united lose and dundalk draw away against a team 5 points off the league leaders and a man down. O'Neill has to call up a couple of them.

[fionnsci]

The eir sport twitter and facebook accounts have been sharing the major moments I believe.

[SwanVsDalton]

Some result that. Taking a point away from home like that is a massive shot in the arm. No need for any inferiority complexes, have at em.

Only saw the last ten minutes after work but thought Rodgers looked really rattled. That's before I'd seen the superman punch MMA knockout.

[davidatrb]

My personal congrats to Dundalk and Ciaran Kilduff. I still remember his "perfect" hat-trick 8 years ago vs Fanad.

Here it is for those that don't remember ;) His first goal was pretty sweet and at the beginning of the video. The rest of the "highlights" worth skipping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSIlW5ngSNk

Well done Kilduff.

Might as well throw in this video too (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6JgJjHv4y8, slightly(!) better quality video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E43aVzuDUpY), the night that Dundalk were promoted. The scenes at the final whistle (about 5m 15s in) were eerie until news slowly filtered through first from the LMFM contingent in the top corner of the stand until all hell broke lose. Who knew that was the start of something big. How things could have been different if they missed out on that promotion, would we have had a day like today?

[paul_oshea]

The eir sport twitter and facebook accounts have been sharing the major moments I believe.
Blocking it in england

Watching itv now.hopefully they show it

[swinfordfc]

Thats a serious start for Dundalk in the Europa League ..... hope they build on it now!

[ger121]

0.250 added to the co-efficient. A win could see us back up into the high 30s and be the golden 3 point mark that adds plus 1 to Dundalk's Team co-efficient. That would leave them close to 6.000, which could be enough to be seeded next year in QR2 CL (if they qualify)

[gufcfan]

The goal, for anyone that is blocked. (https://streamable.com/q8xx)

[nigel-harps1954]

Paul Ince and Glenn Hoddle has good words to say about Dundalks efforts on ITVs highlights programme. Showed great character was the general consensus.

[El-Pietro]

0.250 added to the co-efficient. A win could see us back up into the high 30s and be the golden 3 point mark that adds plus 1 to Dundalk's Team co-efficient. That would leave them close to 6.000, which could be enough to be seeded next year in QR2 CL (if they qualify)
Unfortunately the country coefficient is largely irrelevant after next year (THANKS UEFA). Every Irish club gets 0.05 added to their coefficient for next season and nothing for 2018.

[El-Pietro]

Great result for Dundalk. Good to see them go one better than Rovers. Whats crazy is for all their European success this year they have still only won a single game.

[marinobohs]

Brilliant result for Dundalk (and the League).Over the 98 mins ;) they deserved a point IMHO. great European run and still a bit to run. C'mon de Town

[fionnsci]

Unfortunately the country coefficient is largely irrelevant after next year (THANKS UEFA). Every Irish club gets 0.05 added to their coefficient for next season and nothing for 2018.

I was au fait with the co-efficient system a number of years ago but I found it hard to keep up over the years. Is there somewhere where I can read a concise explanation of the system as is (relationship between national and club co-efficient etc) and how things are going to change? Something a little more substantial than wikipedia!

[El-Pietro]

I was au fait with the co-efficient system a number of years ago but I found it hard to keep up over the years. Is there somewhere where I can read a concise explanation of the system as is (relationship between national and club co-efficient etc) and how things are going to change? Something a little more substantial than wikipedia!
There isn't a whole lot on the new system yet. We're getting information in bits and pieces. There has been some discussion on Bert Kassies website in the forum, and the key parts were included here but it will probably some time before we have teh full picture and it can be explained simply.

[sparky12345678]

The national co-efficient is calculated combing all 4 teams

So far this year including last nights draw Dundalk has contributed 3.5 to the national co-efficient giving us a total of 8.5 divided by 4 to get an average of 2.125.
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/ccoef2017.html


Dundalk's final ranking come the end of 2017 will combine its own points with 20% of our final averaged co-efficient (if there are no more results that will be 0.425). As it stands Dundalk has 2 points for qualifying plus the "country-part" so if nothing changes they will finish this year with a co-efficient of 2.425 added to their 4 previous years gives 4.715.
probably NOT enough to be seeded next year.

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2017.html

Another draw for Dundalk would change things thusly:
9.5/4 = 2.375 * 20% = 0.475. added to their 2 points (as for as I can see Dundalk dont "add" to their points unless they get 3 draws or a win and a draw which is strange but eh) gives 2.475 and a final co efficient of 5.215 which would have put Dundalk as the highest unseeded that first round this year but not as high as Trencin who were on 5.4.

However,
If they win one game (or get a third draw)
we get 10.5/4 * 20% = 0.525 plus 3 = 3.525 plus the previos 4 years gives 5.815
which would be enough to be seeded.

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/seedcl2016.html

[disgruntled]

Great result for Dundalk & fantastic for the League of Ireland.
Did themselves & the league proud.
Well done to all concerned.

Hope the grave train is big enough for all the FAI blazers who'll want to get on now :rolleyes:

[sparky12345678]

Of course if Cork beats Dundalk to the title
Cork's co-efficient for this year is 1 + Country part. Lets say Dundalk win their home game or get 2 more draws and the country part amounts to the 0.525 cork still only end up with a slight improvement to 2.565.
Obviously improving the country co-efficient cant lie solely on one teams back though. Irish clubs need to be more consistent collectively.
Although it seems much of this is mute since they are phasing out the national co-efficient. pity really.

[TheBoss]

Great result for Dundalk. Good to see them go one better than Rovers. Whats crazy is for all their European success this year they have still only won a single game.

Well, Portugal only won 1 game at the Euros in 90 mins and that was against Wales, do they care?

Also, you could look at it from the opposite, 2 losses from 7 games against decent opposition, that's unheard of for a LOI club in Europe. They have conceded 8 goals in those matches, again that's great by LOI standards.

[legendz]

Great result by Dundalk. Hopefully they can pick up at least 2 more draws. Any win will be phenomenal.

Criminal the direction European football is taking. UEFA will offer sweeteners of more money for qualifiers missing out but the league champions of the lower leagues need more European games.

[outspoken]

Great result by Dundalk. Hopefully they can pick up at least 2 more draws. Any win will be phenomenal.

Criminal the direction European football is taking. UEFA will offer sweeteners of more money for qualifiers missing out but the league champions of the lower leagues need more European games.

Remember there was talk of a third tier European competition. Maybe this is a move towards that?

[El-Pietro]

Well, Portugal only won 1 game at the Euros in 90 mins and that was against Wales, do they care?

Also, you could look at it from the opposite, 2 losses from 7 games against decent opposition, that's unheard of for a LOI club in Europe. They have conceded 8 goals in those matches, again that's great by LOI standards.
I guess its frustration on my point, we managed to win twice and lost as many games as they did in our first 6 euro games and we're looking on in envy. Still incredible for them, I don't mean to denigrate their achievement.

[ToberonaTornado]

Gartland is a liability.

Good spot :(
MOTM performance from B.Gartland Thursday night.

Anyone remember Garts playing for Mons and Portadown? Ridiculous to see the difference in him between now and then!!

[ToberonaTornado]

Dundalk match in full on he link.
https://www.setantago.com/ondemand/123819-planning-purpose?search=&start=&end=&searchq=

[White Horse]

Anyone remember Garts playing for Mons and Portadown? Ridiculous to see the difference in him between now and then!!

It was a different player with the same name.

[Martinho II]

Good spot :(
MOTM performance from B.Gartland Thursday night.

Anyone remember Garts playing for Mons and Portadown? Ridiculous to see the difference in him between now and then!!

its 100% the same player. I remember him playing for Monaghan around six years ago under Mick Cookes management when we were in the same division.

[legendz]

Remember there was talk of a third tier European competition. Maybe this is a move towards that?
It's hard to know what UEFA's are planning with that. With the latest move to give 16 automatic places to the top 4 leagues, there's no way 3rd placed teams should be dropping into the Europa League.
It's madness that Dundalk have to travel to Russia and Israel. The Europa League should have two conferences, West Europe and East Europe. Both being 8 groups of 4. Scottish clubs have lamented having to travel to Eastern Europe at times as well. If the Europa League expanded to 64 teams regionalised in two conferences of 32, all Champions League teams knocked out in the qualifiers could be added to the following Europa League qualifying round. The smaller nations have to get changes in their favour. Something like 40 associations are affected. Surely as a group they can exert some influence?

[El-Pietro]

It's hard to know what UEFA's are planning with that. With the latest move to give 16 automatic places to the top 4 leagues, there's no way 3rd placed teams should be dropping into the Europa League.
It's madness that Dundalk have to travel to Russia and Israel. The Europa League should have two conferences, West Europe and East Europe. Both being 8 groups of 4. Scottish clubs have lamented having to travel to Eastern Europe at times as well. If the Europa League expanded to 64 teams regionalised in two conferences of 32, all Champions League teams knocked out in the qualifiers could be added to the following Europa League qualifying round. The smaller nations have to get changes in their favour. Something like 40 associations are affected. Surely as a group they can exert some influence?

You say a lot, but you don't think it through.

[Ezeikial]

You say a lot, but you don't think it through.

You have said so little, without any specifics

[legendz]

Football forum. Humble opinion given.

[pineapple stu]

Thought it was fairly self-explanatory in the context of the quoted post myself.

"Madness" that Dundalk have to go to Russia and Israel? All teams eliminated from the CL group stages to drop into the Europa League? The smaller counties should group together and exert their influence? 32 teams coming out of the groups to be joined by 16 CL teams in the next "qualifying" round?

Thought El Pietro's comment was fairly understandable myself.

[White Horse]

A League of Ireland team just went to Holland and played better football than the home team. Think about that. Because Dundalk are making us reconsider what we think we know. They call into question the idea that our national team is restricted to a long ball game because that's 'our footballing culture.' They, as Kenny Cunningham pointed out on Thursday, call into question the idea that League of Ireland players never, ever deserve a place in the national squad until they move cross-channel. And they call into question the general writing off of the League of Ireland in Irish sporting culture.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/dundalks-exploits-making-us-reconsider-what-we-think-we-know-35057268.html

[pineapple stu]

And of course the one player called up to the national team is the one who - as some even predicted - had the weakest performance on the day.

Though "making us reconsider what we think we know" sounds like daft barstooler backtracking. Even if it is written by a Sligo fan.

[legendz]

"Madness" that Dundalk have to go to Russia and Israel? All teams eliminated from the CL group stages to drop into the Europa League? The smaller counties should group together and exert their influence? 32 teams coming out of the groups to be joined by 16 CL teams in the next "qualifying" round?

CLQ1 losers into ELQ2.
CLQ2 losers into ELQ3.
CLQ3 losers into ELPO.
CLPO losers in EL Group stage.

EL group stage: 64 teams. Two conferences of 8 groups of 4 each. Top 2 in each group into the Round of 32.

The CL is being made more elitist in favour of the top leagues. In my own humble opinion the 3rd placed CL teams should not be parachuting into the EL Round of 32 and all league champions knocked out of the CL qualifiers should have a EL safety net.

[nigel-harps1954]

I don't really think that sounds like backtracking at all. He's absolutely nailed that headline for me. The general consensus is that Irish football is long ball and 'hit it up to the big man', which unfortunately, it largely is. Dundalk are going against the grain, and most League of Ireland sides are at least trying to follow suit. St Pat's have been playing it for a while now too and Irish football is turning a corner. We all know this, but the average football fan doesn't because all they see of football in this country is what the national team play.

A bit of a change in overall attitude is needed, and this could be a catalyst for change in some ways. I'd say that's the angle that Sweeney is taking.

[pineapple stu]

CLQ1 losers into ELQ2.
CLQ2 losers into ELQ3.
CLQ3 losers into ELPO.
CLPO losers in EL Group stage.

EL group stage: 64 teams. Two conferences of 8 groups of 4 each. Top 2 in each group into the Round of 32.

The CL is being made more elitist in favour of the top leagues. In my own humble opinion the 3rd placed CL teams should not be parachuting into the EL Round of 32 and all league champions knocked out of the CL qualifiers should have a EL safety net.

There's literally no need to regionalise the Europa League group stages. In fact, it defeats the point of a Europa League.

You're also living in dreamland if you think UEFA will allow CLQ1 losers to drop down to the Europa League at the expense of third-place in the groups. And no amount of "Sure would the small countries not get together" will change that.

[pineapple stu]

I don't really think that sounds like backtracking at all. He's absolutely nailed that headline for me. The general consensus is that Irish football is long ball and 'hit it up to the big man', which unfortunately, it largely is. Dundalk are going against the grain, and most League of Ireland sides are at least trying to follow suit. St Pat's have been playing it for a while now too and Irish football is turning a corner. We all know this, but the average football fan doesn't because all they see of football in this country is what the national team play.

A bit of a change in overall attitude is needed, and this could be a catalyst for change in some ways. I'd say that's the angle that Sweeney is taking.
I don't agree LoI is "largely" long-ball to a big man up top, with physicality trumping any skill. (Harps definitely are, mind). Agree on Pat's and Dundalk. Cork played excellent stuff when I saw them against Genk. And while all three of UCD's European goals last year were from long balls, there was plenty of comment - particularly during the Slovan game away that was live on telly - about how great it was to watch an Irish team look to pass the ball.

[White Horse]

One aspect of Dundalk's successful approach in Europe that should be acknowledged is the impact of UCD in the domestic game.

Dundalk are reaping the benefit of UCD recruiting talented youngsters and giving them a good football, and indeed wider, education. There is no point in even trying to play a long ball game when you have players like Finn, Benson, and McMillan.

[legendz]

There's literally no need to regionalise the Europa League group stages. In fact, it defeats the point of a Europa League.

You're also living in dreamland if you think UEFA will allow CLQ1 losers to drop down to the Europa League at the expense of third-place in the groups. And no amount of "Sure would the small countries not get together" will change that.

A humble opinion was simply put out there in a football forum. Non champions defeat the point of a Champions League. It's fair of course to point out the reality of UEFA not making changes at the expense of 3rd placed teams. It's not doubted.

[pineapple stu]

If you're going to put out a humble opinion, you have to expect it to be humbly challenged or humbly shown to be nonsense.

Seriously, why should the EL group stages be regionalised?

[Real ale Madrid]

There's literally no need to regionalise the Europa League group stages. In fact, it defeats the point of a Europa League.
.

Well how come Israeli teams are in this Europa league then eh? Riddle me that?!

[nigel-harps1954]

I don't agree LoI is "largely" long-ball to a big man up top, with physicality trumping any skill. (Harps definitely are, mind). Agree on Pat's and Dundalk. Cork played excellent stuff when I saw them against Genk. And while all three of UCD's European goals last year were from long balls, there was plenty of comment - particularly during the Slovan game away that was live on telly - about how great it was to watch an Irish team look to pass the ball.

There's not too many sides within the league that you can say play free-flowing football. Cork were good against Genk, but against Harps in Turners Cross there wasn't an awful lot of football played when I was there watching.

[pineapple stu]

That's because you were watching Harps though.

[oriel]

A League of Ireland team just went to Holland and played better football than the home team. Think about that. Because Dundalk are making us reconsider what we think we know. They call into question the idea that our national team is restricted to a long ball game because that's 'our footballing culture.' They, as Kenny Cunningham vpointed out on Thursday, call into question the idea that League of Ireland players never, ever deserve a place in the national squad until they move cross-channel. And they call into question the general writing off of the League of Ireland in Irish sporting culture.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/dundalks-exploits-making-us-reconsider-what-we-think-we-know-35057268.html

Another excellent piece by Sweeney. Dundalk are fortunate that only one EL match is played in October and the final 3 games including the two longest away trips are after the league season ends.

However there is nothing fortunate about the Euro campaign so far, EL P points out only one win, and that's fine, also Dundalk lost the same amount as Cork (2) a fair comparison but the difference was the two performances after those two defeats, 3-0 win over BATE and one minute away from beating Legia away from home.

I said at the start that I'd be delighted with 4 points from the group, the next 5 matches will be all very tough games, especially the two v Zenit, but there is a lot of hope now that we can challenge a little more.

If we can get a result in the next game v Tel Aviv in Tallght at the end of the month, that might offer more hope for a successful group campaign. One game at a time though.

[legendz]

If you're going to put out a humble opinion, you have to expect it to be humbly challenged or humbly shown to be nonsense.

Seriously, why should the EL group stages be regionalised?
A 64 team tournament as suggested affording all league champions an EL safety net is a big tournament in terms of numbers of teams involved.

For such a tournament, from a promotional and marketing point of view two regions of 8 groups might be more manageable. The Europa League is already perceived as big. 64 might be overload. It might be easier to promote 8 groups in two regions. East could have a fixed kickoff time of 18.30CET. West could have a fixed kickoff time of 21.00CET.

My understanding of the history and creation of the EL is that it was in part to appease clubs from the likes of Scotland and the Netherlands who were talking of a North Atlantic league. The EL has offered a competition of that level.

There is an evolution of competitions. Now I would like to see groups of clubs from nearby countries. It's what the likes of the North Atlantic league might have offered. Many might not agree. That's fine.

[White Horse]

There's not too many sides within the league that you can say play free-flowing football. Cork were good against Genk, but against Harps in Turners Cross there wasn't an awful lot of football played when I was there watching.

Cork can play football, and have done so on occasions this year. There is a tendency for them to resort to a long ball game when under pressure.

[nigel-harps1954]

Cork can play football, and have done so on occasions this year. There is a tendency for them to resort to a long ball game when under pressure.

This is it though. My point exactly. Every team are capable of playing football, but nobody is doing it on a consistent basis like Dundalk in the league.

[pineapple stu]

A 64 team tournament as suggested affording all league champions an EL safety net is a big tournament in terms of numbers of teams involved.
Why should all league champions even get a safety net?


For such a tournament, from a promotional and marketing point of view two regions of 8 groups might be more manageable.
Why would it be more manageable than at present?


The Europa League is already perceived as big. 64 might be overload.
That's not really a plus for your plan, is it?


It might be easier to promote 8 groups in two regions. East could have a fixed kickoff time of 18.30CET. West could have a fixed kickoff time of 21.00CET.
But it's already in two regions for TV reasons - so your plan adds nothing. And east/west regions comes back to the fundamental issue you've ignored again - what's wrong with Dundalk having to go to Russia?

This is what El-Pietro meant when he said you've thought nothing through.

[legendz]

Why should all league champions even get a safety net?
It's a matter of opinion. I would like to see league champions having the guarantee of more European games. European experience is beneficial. An advantage of being league champions should be more opportunities in Europe. If other's don't agree, that's fine.



Why would it be more manageable than at present?

That's not really a plus for your plan, is it?Both points here are related. I think groups West A to H and groups East A to H is more marketable than 16 groups A to P. That's my opinion on my preference for the competition to expand to 64.



But it's already in two regions for TV reasons - so your plan adds nothing. And east/west regions comes back to the fundamental issue you've ignored again - what's wrong with Dundalk having to go to Russia?
Firstly I'm discussing two regions in the context of my preference for an expansion to 64 teams.
Trips to Israel and Russia are long for both the club and supporters. As would have happened in a North Atlantic league, I would prefer to see them play teams of that level from the west side of Europe. Dundalk are going playing their EL games in Tallaght. It doesn't say much for the attraction of playing teams from eastern Europe at this stage of the competition.
In two regions, there's a good probability of teams having a rivalry over a number of seasons. Rivalries like that tend to add value to a competition in time when competitions become established.

[pineapple stu]

It's a matter of opinion. I would like to see league champions having the guarantee of more European games. European experience is beneficial. An advantage of being league champions should be more opportunities in Europe. If other's don't agree, that's fine.
It's not about agreeing or not agreeing, or about this just being your opinion - you surely have to have some sort of valid, objective, reason for this?


Both points here are related. I think groups West A to H and groups East A to H is more marketable than 16 groups A to P. That's my opinion on my preference for the competition to expand to 64.
As above - you've given no reason at all for this.


Trips to Israel and Russia are long for both the club and supporters.
What? Who says? It's just a four-hour flight. A bus from Dublin to Donegal is longer.


As would have happened in a North Atlantic league, I would prefer to see them play teams of that level from the west side of Europe. Dundalk are going playing their EL games in Tallaght. It doesn't say much for the attraction of playing teams from eastern Europe at this stage of the competition.
AZ Alkmaar, that well-known eastern European team Dundalk will be forced to play in little old Tallaght, yeah?

There are lots of Western European teams that wouldn't fill Lansdowne Road. Most of them, in fact.

And filling Lansdowne Road isn't the point of the Europa League.


In two regions, there's a good probability of teams having a rivalry over a number of seasons. Rivalries like that tend to add value to a competition in time when competitions become established.
There's no chance of generating club rivalry by regionalising the Europa League. The clubs are far too transient for that for starters.

Seriously, stop talking about just what you want and try look at the bigger operational picture here.

[legendz]

It's not about agreeing or not agreeing
Ahem, any proposals voted on will have agreement and disagreement.