League of Ireland in Europe 2016

[disgruntled]

This is a clip of Cork Hibs against Borussia Moenchengladbach in 1971 https://youtu.be/a45aiacu6QM

All of the goals came within the first 20 mins afaik. Don't let anyone tell you that the standard was better back then. We've come a long way!

Remember that game well. That Moenchengladbach team were something special that day & Netzer gave a master class in midfield. They lost out (were robbed) in the 2nd round by Inter Milan.

Complements of Wikipedia.



20 October 1971





Borussia Mönchengladbach (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borussia_M%C3%B6nchengladbach)
7–1
Internazionale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.C._Internazionale_Milano)


Heynckes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupp_Heynckes) 7', 44'
Le Fevre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrik_le_Fevre) 21', 34'
Netzer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Netzer) 42', 52'
Sieloff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus-Dieter_Sieloff) 83' (pen. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_kick))
[1] (http://www.fussballdaten.de/championsleague/1972/endrunde/achtelfinale/mgladbach-intermailand-1/)
Boninsegna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Boninsegna) 20'





Monchengladbach (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6nchengladbach)


This game was annulled as Inter player Roberto Boninsegna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Boninsegna) was hit by a Coca-Cola can in the 29th minute. The first leg game was replayed after the game that was originally scheduled to be second leg was played 0-0, thus the order of legs was switched.


3 November 1971





Internazionale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.C._Internazionale_Milano)
4–2
Borussia Mönchengladbach (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borussia_M%C3%B6nchengladbach)


Bellugi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauro_Bellugi) 10'
Boninsegna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Boninsegna) 13'
Jair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jair_da_Costa) 57'
Ghio (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gian_Piero_Ghio) 90'
Report (http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=1971/matches/round=975/match=63083/postmatch/lineups/index.html)
Le Fevre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrik_le_Fevre) 38'
Wittkamp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-J%C3%BCrgen_Wittkamp) 89'





Milan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan)

[swinfordfc]

Lads,

Ireland co-efficient now is now 5.825 and thus we are in 41st placed. I hear people on here saying that Dundalk get 2 points as they got to Europa league group stages so do we go up 7.825? I don't think so but just checking this out! Also if Dundalk was to win or drawed a game in Europa league group, whats points towards the co-efficient do they get, thanks

[ger121]

Lads,

Ireland co-efficient now is now 5.825 and thus we are in 41st placed. I hear people on here saying that Dundalk get 2 points as they got to Europa league group stages so do we go up 7.825? I don't think so but just checking this out! Also if Dundalk was to win or drawed a game in Europa league group, whats points towards the co-efficient do they get, thanks

To your first question. No the 2 points don't go towards our overall co-efficient, just towards Dundalk's Club total.

As the minimum reward for qualifying for the EL Group, teams get 2 points. Therefore Dundalk will need at least a win and a draw (or 3 draws) to add anything to their club co-efficient i.e. 3 points instead of 2 points

On that last point, to have any chance of being seeded in the CL next year, presuming of course they win the League, they'll most likely needed 2 wins or a win and 2 draws. However, a win and a draw could be enough based on last years' seedings.

[El-Pietro]

Dundalk get 2 points for a win, and 1 point for a draw from here on. The league gets half that, 20% of that is added to each clubs total going forward.

Each win from here on is worth 0.10 to each club, and each draw is worth 0.05. In the qualifying rounds wins were worth 0.05 and draws 0.025

[El-Pietro]

As the minimum reward for qualifying for the EL Group, teams get 2 points. Therefore Dundalk will need at least a win and a draw (or 3 draws) to add anything to their club co-efficient i.e. 3 points instead of 2 points


Are you sure on that? I've never seen that written down anywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Club_coefficient
This link (which could obviously be wrong) says teams get 2 points for participation, and then 2 points for a win, and 1 for a draw.

[nigel-harps1954]

Lads,

Ireland co-efficient now is now 5.825 and thus we are in 41st placed. I hear people on here saying that Dundalk get 2 points as they got to Europa league group stages so do we go up 7.825? I don't think so but just checking this out! Also if Dundalk was to win or drawed a game in Europa league group, whats points towards the co-efficient do they get, thanks

From wiki:


This coefficient is determined by the results of the clubs of the associations in the UEFA Champions League (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League) and the UEFA Europa League (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Europa_League) games over the past five seasons. Two points are awarded for each win by a club, and one for a draw (points are halved in the qualifying and playoff rounds). Results determined by extra time do count in determining the allocation of points, but results determined by penalty-shootouts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_shootout_(association_football)) do not affect the allocation of points, other than for bonus points given for qualification into the latter rounds of the Champions League or the Europa League. The number of points awarded each season is divided by the number of teams that participated for that association in that season. This number is then rounded down to three decimal places (e.g. 2⅔ would be rounded to 2.666).

So, this seasons results in Europe so far:

Dundalk: won 1, drew 3, lost 2 (4.5 total, incl extra 2 points for EL group stage)
Cork: won 2, drew 2, lost 2 (3.0 total)
St Pats: won 1, drew 1, lost 2 (1.5 total)
Shamrock Rovers: drew 1, lost 1. (0.5 total)

Total: won 4, drew 7, lost 7 (11.5 total, incl EL points)

Divide by four teams in Europe and that gives 2.875 points this season so far, as far as I can make out. Kassiesa has it as 1.875 so far though. So I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. If there's an error on his site, that takes Irelands total up from 5.825 to 6.825.

From this, that takes Ireland up to 37th in the rankings by my calculation. There's a cluster of nations above Ireland in the rankings with no clubs left in European competition that are within catching distance. Although, it would take two wins by Dundalk to lift Ireland to 36th above Finland.

[ger121]

Lads,

Ireland co-efficient now is now 5.825 and thus we are in 41st placed. I hear people on here saying that Dundalk get 2 points as they got to Europa league group stages so do we go up 7.825? I don't think so but just checking this out! Also if Dundalk was to win or drawed a game in Europa league group, whats points towards the co-efficient do they get, thanks


Are you sure on that? I've never seen that written down anywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Club_coefficient
This link (which could obviously be wrong) says teams get 2 points for participation, and then 2 points for a win, and 1 for a draw.

Neither had I but someone else posted about it a page or so ago so I looked into what he had said based on Bert's site and it's looks to be accurate. Look at the following link of last years' team co-efficient earned for 2015/16

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/tcoef2016.html

OP gave an example of Gabala making EL Group Stage, getting two draws but still only earning 2.8 something - 2 points minimum for EL qualification + Country co-efficient percentage. I also looked at Celtic who got 3 points in total so guess was a win and a draw for them in the Group, hence extra point on top of the 2 points already received qualified.

Hope I'm wrong,as much harder for Dundalk to get the required points to b seeded next year should they qualify as Champions.

[ger121]

Are you sure on that? I've never seen that written down anywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Club_coefficient
This link (which could obviously be wrong) says teams get 2 points for participation, and then 2 points for a win, and 1 for a draw.


Neither had I but someone else posted about it a page or so ago so I looked into what he had said based on Bert's site and it's looks to be accurate. Look at the following link of last years' team co-efficient earned for 2015/16

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/tcoef2016.html

OP gave an example of Gabala making EL Group Stage, getting two draws but still only earning 2.8 something - 2 points minimum for EL qualification + Country co-efficient percentage. I also looked at Celtic who got 3 points in total so guess was a win and a draw for them in the Group, hence extra point on top of the 2 points already received qualified.

Hope I'm wrong,as much harder for Dundalk to get the required points to b seeded next year should they qualify as Champions.


Had a look at that wiki link and it states:

Bonus points for entering the Europa League group stage are not additional to win/draw points; they provide a minimum points allowance for participating clubs, whereas bonus points for entering the Champions League group stage (and those for qualifying to the knockout stage) are additional to win/draw points

[Dodge]

Yeah, ger121 is spot on. The 2 points for the EL are only a minimum (unlike the CL). Great spot

[legendz]

We may as well enjoy this year in Europe. With UEFA expected to announce changes to CL format tomorrow, come 2018/19, it will be a whole lot harder to even get to this stage where you had Dundalk knocking on the door of the Groups.

Lot of outlets saying Top 4 Teams from the Top 4 Leagues will qualify automatically for CL Group Stages. That leaves 16 places for Teams from the other 48/49 Leagues to battle for. I'd also expect the Champions Path to be scrapped to make it easier for Teams from France, Portugal etc.. to qualify.

UEFA will sugarcoat the pill to make it less bitter to swallow by increasing prize money for qualifying rounds and what option to do Teams have anyway, for many it is their biggest source of revenue. I hope they change the name of the Champions League, as it's future format never mind it's current incarnation is a mockery to Champions around Europe.

It seems the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many!
Unfortunately money talks. German and Spanish clubs have been pushing for this since the increase in money across the water. The top 4 leagues will have 16 automatic entrants, up from 11.

UEFA were suggesting that they had a 40 team format for FIFA to consider using in World Cups. Possibly UEFA should use that 40 team format for both the Champions League and Europa League.

[Nesta99]

Well at least we got a mention during the CL draw even if we weren't in the pot! Pointless observation but Real Madrid, Dortmund, and Sporting Lisbon were drawn with Legia so a super tough group and while the money would have been huge but the chance of getting hammered by these could have been damaging in its own way.

[shelsfan1]

Dundalk would have been the lowest ranked team and been drawn against Bayern, Atletico and PSV

[paul_oshea]

" 40 team format"

UEFA were suggesting that they had a 40 team format for FIFA to consider using in World Cups. Possibly UEFA should use that 40 team format for both the Champions League and Europa League.

What do you mean by the last paragraph?

[TonyD]

Well at least we got a mention during the CL draw even if we weren't in the pot! Pointless observation but Real Madrid, Dortmund, and Sporting Lisbon were drawn with Legia so a super tough group and while the money would have been huge but the chance of getting hammered by these could have been damaging in its own way.

Interesting to hear Stehpen O'Donnell say something similar on TV after the match the other night. Sounded like he'd rather be in the Europa league with a better chance to compete rather than get a few hammerings. He didn't exactly put it in those terms, but that was basically the gist of it. I think some of those teams could potentially do Legia a lot of damage too.

[TonyD]

This is a clip of Cork Hibs against Borussia Moenchengladbach in 1971 https://youtu.be/a45aiacu6QM

All of the goals came within the first 20 mins afaik. Don't let anyone tell you that the standard was better back then. We've come a long way!

The guy falling over on the ball, oh dear!

Was that Flower Lodge ?

[redarmyfaction]

Dundalk would have been the lowest ranked team and been drawn against Bayern, Atletico and PSV

Can you show your workings on this, my father watched the draw and he says you are are wrong and Nesta is right.

[Dodge]

Can you show your workings on this, my father watched the draw and he says you are are wrong and Nesta is right.
Workings? Rostov were the lowest seed so the theory is that 'spot' would have been Dundalk's

It's only a draw though

[legendz]

" 40 team format"

UEFA were suggesting that they had a 40 team format for FIFA to consider using in World Cups. Possibly UEFA should use that 40 team format for both the Champions League and Europa League.

What do you mean by the last paragraph?
Before the current FIFA president took up the position, when he was in UEFA he was calling for the World Cup to be expanded to 40 teams. At the moment one UEFA group runner-up misses out on the World Cup playoffs. UEFA being UEFA they had the 40 team tournament format fully worked out.

The top 4 leagues are going to get 4 automatic CL places. The FAI and similar associations have to look at compromises and a fair deal. One option of many is expanding the CL to 40 teams and maintain the champions route to the CL. UEFA believe they have a suitable format for it.

[bennocelt]

Zurich bumped up to third seeds now with the results coming in, roughly 17% chance of Dundalk playing in Switzerland now, ha

[ger121]

West Ham going out it seems. Few interesting results tonight. Will make for a possible better draw tomorrow.

[bennocelt]

West Ham going out it seems. Few interesting results tonight. Will make for a possible better draw tomorrow.

Silviu Lung was MOM in goals, like father like son....:)

[backstothewall]

I assume the Chairman is on his hands and knees tonight praying for Man United

[ger121]

Here we go folks. What's a good draw?

2456

[jinxy lilywhite]

The fact that Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan are out of the equation is good news.

It's a mixed bag and with such big pots it's a minefield.

Hoping for an Austrian side, trip to Belgium or the Netherlands. Would love my Italian team Fiorentina or st. Etienne.

Or get united and block see the aviva to every man ure barstooller for 90 for the 3 games no exceptions

[sbgawa]

I hope dundalk don't draw an English team. I remember almost commitING murder listening to spurs dublin fans in 2011 talking about "our boys" doing the business. ...there are plenty of teams in the draw worth going to see other then the brits

[nigel-harps1954]

Anderlecht, Saint Etienne and Zurich. That would be ideal on many levels.

[Real ale Madrid]

Ajax Genk and Southampton.

[ger121]

Ajax, Roma & Southampton for the glamour matches and away trips,plus big enough crowds.

Plzen, St-Étienne (love their draws) & Zürich. Chance of results and not the worst for travelling.

[TheBoss]

My 4 picks in each pot in order of preference for a good draw, they maybe obvious but still:

Pot 1: Viktoria Plzen - Anderlecht - Olympiakos - Ajax
Pot 2: Standard Liège - Sparta Praha - AZ Alkmaar - APOEL
Pot 3: Zürich - Rapid Vienna - Feyenoord - Slovan Liberec

[bennocelt]

Depending on travel, I might toddle along to a game or two if time permits

Inter (Milan 4 hours by train), Roma (about 60 Euro return Easyjet) FC Zurich (an hour away)

But I would love to see Dundalk do well
So the best draw IMHO
Plzen, Genk, FC Zürich

[swinfordfc]

Dundalk are the lowest ranked team left in Europe yet I think they can win games in Europa league - unlike Rovers a few years ago! (I hoping so anyhow) - Hope they get Plzen, Genk and Zurich - that's a great draw!

[Pablo Escobar]

The guy falling over on the ball, oh dear!

Was that Flower Lodge ?
Yeah that was Flower Lodge. Another great loss to the league.

[pineapple stu]

The changes to the Champions' League have been confirmed so (http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2398611.html).

Reading it though, it looks like the non-champions route is the one to be affected - the champions route is going to stay the same as at present. (There's no indication it's going to change anyway). It seems like, applied to this year, Gladbach, Roma, Villarreal and Man City wouldn't have been in the qualifying round, and Inter would be bumped up to the group stages from the Europa League. It looks like the clubs to potentially lose out are the non-champions of smaller clubs (e.g. Young Boys, Steaua, Porto and Monaco, who played the above four teams)

The changing of club coefficients may benefit Dundalk, but only if they continue qualifying for Europe of course.

Don't think it's quite as bad for the LoI as was being made out?

[ger121]

The changes to the Champions' League have been confirmed so (http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2398611.html).

Reading it though, it looks like the non-champions route is the one to be affected - the champions route is going to stay the same as at present. (There's no indication it's going to change anyway). It seems like, applied to this year, Gladbach, Roma, Villarreal and Man City wouldn't have been in the qualifying round, and Inter would be bumped up to the group stages from the Europa League. It looks like the clubs to potentially lose out are the non-champions of smaller clubs (e.g. Young Boys, Steaua, Porto and Monaco, who played the above four teams)

The changing of club coefficients may benefit Dundalk, but only if they continue qualifying for Europe of course.

Don't think it's quite as bad for the LoI as was being made out?

Based on what you've outlined there Stu, then no not too bad. Haven't had a chance to read the changes in great detail but did see that the number of qualifying spots via the Champions Route will be reduced from 5 to 4. Not sure how that would change the current qualifying structure?

[pineapple stu]

but did see that the number of qualifying spots via the Champions Route will be reduced from 5 to 4.
Missed that. That would be a bit of a blow alright. Not sure how they'd manage that - maybe a much expanded first round, possibly sucking the LoI in? Then the LoI less likely to be seeded in the second round I guess.

[seand]

Missed that. That would be a bit of a blow alright. Not sure how they'd manage that - maybe a much expanded first round, possibly sucking the LoI in? Then the LoI less likely to be seeded in the second round I guess.

I didn't see that either, are you sure ger121? The UEFA website announcement just says all champions will still have a chance of qualifying and that the full distribution list will be announced later in the year.

As it stands the top 4 countries get 11 automatic places.... that's moving to 16 which means 5 less places for champions of middle ranked countries or qualifiers. Hard to imagine that we in the champions route would lose less than 2 places, and possibly 3. Slight glimmer of hope is that the non-champions route has to be impacted severely too- you'd be taking Man City, Roma etc out of that route.

Current distribution for group phase:
Countries ranked 1-3 [ESP GER ENG] 3 places each [9 places] moving up to 4
Italy ranked 4 get 2 places in the groups- moving up to 4 (!)
Europa League winner: [1]

At present the other 20 places are allocated like this, and 5 of them have to go:
Countries ranked 5, 6: 2 places each [4]
Countries ranked 7-12: 1 place each [6]
Champions qualifying route (League of Ireland etc): [5]
League qualifying route: [5]

At present we have 41 national champions battling for 5 places. You'd have to think that's likely to be down to 2 or 3 places.

[ger121]

SeanD - read it on Yahoo Sport via a link I saw on Twitter. Could be inaccurate.

[BonnieShels]

Decent preamble to the Grauniad coverage:



Hello and welcome to the draw for the group stages of a tournament that Jose Mourinho never wanted to adorn but now aims to win. And so he should, for the best way for teams to prove that they are too good for a tournament is to beat everyone else in it rather than pout and strut like donkeys on a cat walk while supposedly lesser creatures sashay merrily past them. That’s got to be the key take-away from English clubs recent misbehaviour in Europe. Wouldn’t you agree, West Ham?

Southampton learned that last season and should be eager to atone. United and Southampton: that is the extent of English involvement in today’s draw because of West Ham’s injuries and chronic incorrigibility. Hats off to Astra Giurgiu, the 11th best team in Romania but, as of last night, two-time conquerors of the most overrated team in London. Sadly Edinburgh didn’t perform a whole lot better, as both Hibs and Hearts flunked out spectacularly in earlier rounds. There are, then, no Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish clubs among the 48 in today’s draw.

The League of Ireland, however, is represented in the group stages for only the second time, Dundalk overcoming widespread neglect at home to earn the right to perform in a tournament that full of quality and intrigue. It will be interesting to see who enjoys more support in Ireland if they are pitted against Manchester United, or even Southampton. The Scottish league may be going through lean times but at least most of its people haven’t abandoned it.

For any of the 48 teams in today’s draw to win the tournament, they will have to navigate their way through 15 matches. At this point United are probably vying with Roma and Internazionale for the title of favourites but that’s before any teams parachute in from the Champions League group stages. There’s still scope, then, for Sevilla to win four in a row. The final will be in Sweden’s new national stadium in Solna, near the scene of the 1958 World Cup final, so the perfect place for any budding new Pele to announce his arrival. Can you spot him already among any of the 48 teams below? They are split into four pots, with one to be taken from each during today’s draw to form a group, and that process to be repeated 12 times.


https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2016/aug/26/europa-league-group-stage-draw-live

[Philosophizer]

Fair balls to Paul Doyle, calling out the many Irish ppl who will be checking that article to see how their beloved Man Utd get drawn

[disgruntled]

The first thing I will be looking for is to see who Dundalk get.

[pineapple stu]

So top two seeds drawn so far.

Inter and Sparta looking interesting. Or Plzen and Roma. A nice profile game (non Premiership) plus a vaguely winnable trip to the Czech Republic.

[pineapple stu]

Scratch that; for points, it's Olympiakos, APOEL and Young Boys. Obviously all better than Dundalk of course, but still.

[swinfordfc]

Group b please

[pineapple stu]

Three groups now with the Italy/Czech Republic pairing now; bit mad.

Southampton get Inter.

[pineapple stu]

Avoided United anyway. Glad of that.

[pineapple stu]

Zenit, Alkmaar and Maccabi Tel Aviv so.

Lansdowne will be a bit bare. But nice trips.

[Titan]

Disaster, 3 good sides but not crowd bringers

Zenit
AZ
Tel Aviv

[Pablo Escobar]

Disaster, 3 good sides but not crowd bringers

Zenit
AZ
Tel Aviv

It was the one group they didn't want!

[BonnieShels]

I'm due a trip to the Dam. I'll link it in with that AZ game so. :)

[Titan]

Plus long, costly trips to israel and russia

If they were allowed they could play all 3 home games at Tallaght and probably still not fill it once :(