League of Ireland in Europe 2016

[swinfordfc]

Top two goes through (that's 24) plus 8 third placed CL teams which makes last 32 - right ?

[pineapple stu]

Just been pointed out to me that Dundalk were fined for Palestinian flags last year (or the year before?) and are now hosting an Israeli team...

[El-Pietro]

I've been to Alkmaar, nice enough clean/modern stadium. Dundalk fans will be behind a glass screen. Bit of a walk to the ground from the bars in Alkmaar itself. Most AZ fans seem to cycle to the ground.

Horrible draw otherwise.

[BonnieShels]

What's change that Tallaght isn't good enough but was okay in 2011/12?

[redarmyfaction]

Horrible draw otherwise.

ya, the second that first three teams were drawn to it, I knew Dundalk were certs to get it.

[Nugget]

That draw confused the hell out of me.
Kept thinking, well at least group d is gone, only for the team that was drawn to be placed into a much nicer group further down.
Very disappointing draw.

[pineapple stu]

I've been to Alkmaar, nice enough clean/modern stadium. Dundalk fans will be behind a glass screen. Bit of a walk to the ground from the bars in Alkmaar itself. Most AZ fans seem to cycle to the ground.

Horrible draw otherwise.
Zenit is an interesting ground - it's on an island, and the address just is "2 Petrovsky Island".

Though not sure if their new stadium will be open for the match - or if they'll even play Dundalk there, as it's a 68000 capacity ground v 21000 for their old one.

St Petersburg is a stunning city of course.

No harm for the rest of the league that Dundalk didn't land any plum ties. :)

[White Horse]

This isn't a tourist trip, it is a competion.

Fcuk pubs and flights, Dundalk will be competing in that group.

[pineapple stu]

That draw confused the hell out of me.
Kept thinking, well at least group d is gone, only for the team that was drawn to be placed into a much nicer group further down.
Very disappointing draw.
Yeah, groups A-F and G-L were separate. They'll alternate the 6:05 and 8:05 kick offs between them - so clubs from the same country couldn't end up in the same half of the draw.

So if they an Italian team was drawn for group D, but an Italian team was already in group A, then the second team would be moved to the first available of G-L.

Was straightforward once you got the hang of it - but a bit confusing if you missed the explanation at the start alright!

[El-Pietro]

This isn't a tourist trip, it is a competion.

Fcuk pubs and flights, Dundalk will be competing in that group.

When I said it was a horrible draw, I meant in every respect. You haven't gotten any of the glamour teams, you haven't gotten too many easy trips, Alkmaar aside, and there won't be any "easy" points in that group. There were many better possible combinations out there for Dundalk. This one is pretty horrible. Maybe a home point against Tel Aviv or Alkmaar if one of those teams is already knocked out? I dunno, maybe Dundalk will prove me wrong and win the group but I don't see it.

If it were my team I wouldn't be too bothered of course, I'd be delighted with getting this far, and looking at the upside of the draw.

[Ezeikial]

Top two goes through (that's 24) plus 8 third placed CL teams which makes last 32 - right ?

What, so we only have to finish ahead of 2 other teams to qualify for the knockouts?

Whoa - here we go..................

[BonnieShels]

When will the fixtures be out?

[brendy_éire]

Dundalk will be competing in that group.

I don't think they will be really though.
A decent target would be to get two points. I think Tel Aviv is your best shout for points, unless it's Alkmaar at home and they're already out.

Presume Tallaght is back on to cards now?

[bennocelt]

I think Dundalk can give Tel Aviv and Az a game of it, I wouldnt be so down about it.....

[pineapple stu]

there won't be any "easy" points in that group.
Didn't LoI teams knock out Dutch and Israeli teams the last time they met?

Cork v NAC Breda and Rovers v Bnei Sakhnin.

Not as good as Alkmaar and Maccabi of course, but then Dundalk are arguably better than Cork and Rovers too.

Wouldn't be quite as dismissive of Dundalk's chances of picking up a few points - and of course Zenit won the competition outright a few years ago - but don't think it's quite that bad.

[White Horse]

I don't think they will be really though.
A decent target would be to get two points. I think Tel Aviv is your best shout for points, unless it's Alkmaar at home and they're already out.

Presume Tallaght is back on to cards now?

If approved by UEFA, it is the logical choice for those ties.

As for you predictions, I am a lot more confident in Dundalk's ability to get results.

[pineapple stu]

Jordi Cruyff and Shota Arveladze are the management team at Maccabi btw. They got the worst ever Champions' League record last season I think (lost all six games, scored once, conceded 19). They beat Hajduk Split on penalties in the EL play-off round to qualify this year, and Hajduk only beat Dundalk by one goal two years ago.

Alkmaar got four points last year and finished bottom of their group - though they did beat Bilbao at home and draw away. They've Ron Vlaar (ex Villa) and Ronald Muhren (nephew of Arnold)

Zenit have Axel Witsel - who scored for Belgium against us in the Euros - and Kerzhakov, who scored against Ireland in the 4-2 win in 2002 and in the 3-2 win in 2010. Ezequiel Garay is a good player too; ex Real Madrid. They won the UEFA Cup in 2008, and now have in Mircea Lucescu a bloody experienced manager.

[sparky12345678]

not that seeding/coeffecient is indicative of performance (so feel free to update with analysis of last few years plus this years performance of these teams) but
Zenit St. Petersburg were ranked the second highest in pot 1 (93)
AZ Alkmaar were ranked highest in Pot 2 (43)
Granted Tel Aviv were ranked mid way in pot 3 at 20.225 and Dundalk should aim to be above them given their performance this year, but travelling there could be tricky to get a result & hostile.
(for further reference BATE were ranked 34 but have been elimnated and Legia Warsaw were ranked 28).
For the co-efficient any win/draw will benefit the leagues co-efficient but for their own they need a third point (ie 3 or more draws or a win & a draw or better).
8 points is the kind of minimum points theyd need for qualifying. Realistically aiming for 6-7 and hoping for some luck?


Im just peeved they didnt draw an Austrian/Czech team (and Maribor/Zagreb werent there) so I could tag along.

[sundance kid]

Not one full house in tallaght for dundalk there. Hopefully the Dundalk fans don't do quite so much damage at these games as they did at the Bate game. The council have only just replaced the section of seats that were destroyed, and repaired the toilets under the west stand.

[pineapple stu]

Realistically aiming for 6-7 and hoping for some luck?
Not sure if that's a realistic target tbh.

After the Rovers draw, there was plenty of similar predictions, and we know how well that went.

I don't think Dundalk's draw is as tough (but it's still tough), and I think Dundalk are a better team, but if they got 4 points, it'd be quite a successful campaign. Obviously the first target is any sort of a result.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

This isn't a tourist trip, it is a competion.

Fcuk pubs and flights, Dundalk will be competing in that group.

This. There might be more holidays after the group stages. It's certainly not impossible to finish second in that group.

[sparky12345678]

Not sure if that's a realistic target tbh.

After the Rovers draw, there was plenty of similar predictions, and we know how well that went.

I don't think Dundalk's draw is as tough (but it's still tough), and I think Dundalk are a better team, but if they got 4 points, it'd be quite a successful campaign. Obviously the first target is any sort of a result.


yea i meant more as a realistic target for the manager/fans. its hard to see them getting 9 points. As a skeptic its hard to see them getting even 4 points. Fans/manager should aiming for somewhere in the middle

[El-Pietro]

Didn't LoI teams knock out Dutch and Israeli teams the last time they met?

Cork v NAC Breda and Rovers v Bnei Sakhnin.

Not as good as Alkmaar and Maccabi of course, but then Dundalk are arguably better than Cork and Rovers too.

Wouldn't be quite as dismissive of Dundalk's chances of picking up a few points - and of course Zenit won the competition outright a few years ago - but don't think it's quite that bad.
Cork City played NEC Nijmegen in the Intertoto Cup in 2004. AZ Alkmaar are a much better team than NEC. Interestingly they play each other on Sunday Can't speak too much on the quality of the Israeli league but its a tough trip and Maccabi Tel Aviv are a relatively big club. Maybe I'm being harsh but I can't see them getting too many points. I'm sure Dundalk fans don't care what i think

[pineapple stu]

And actually Rovers beat Bnei Yahuda, not Sakhnin. So I'm doing well here! Just need someone now to point out a more recent tie against a Dutch side to complete my fail.

Agree all points will be hard earned. Just not sure it's quite the nul points that Rovers' group was.

[GCdfc]

yea i meant more as a realistic target for the manager/fans. its hard to see them getting 9 points. As a skeptic its hard to see them getting even 4 points. Fans/manager should aiming for somewhere in the middle

Stephen Kenny already set the target of qualifying from the group. That was straight after the Legia match in Warsaw. Why would you expect the manager to have a low target? Kenny is right to aim high. Winners aren't created on an inferiority complex.

[ger121]

Was in meetings all morning so just seeing the draw. First reaction, it's an awful group. Shades of the level and type of teams Rovers drew in 2011. The magic target points wise to have any chance of a seeding next year (if they win League) is 3 points (3 draws) or 4 points (win & draw) I'm trying to see where they could do that here. Win vs Macabi & draw vs AZ at home = 4 Points. Draw vs Macabi Home/Away + draw vs AZ = 3 points. Doable?

[TheBoss]

Seems to me some people here are again hyping up the quality of the teams in this group akin to what was said about BATE previously. For me, its a group that Dundalk should not fear. I think Alkmaar is decent draw despite what some say, Dutch teams usually can't defend, its all about attack with them. Dundalk were solid enough in their games against BATE and Legia and if replicated, they are more than capable of getting points off them. I think Maccabi will be more difficult an opponent but they can be unpredictable at times, so might be chance of a win/draw at home. I think Zenit is an extremely difficult opponent, keeping the score down in both games might be objective there!

Looking back at Rovers campaign in 2011, they were in a horror group and competed well in some of the games. This Dundalk side one would feel have more quality than that Rovers team, plus are in a group that would be considered less daunting. So overall, its a reasonable group to get considering they did not get a team from England, Spain, Germany, Italy and France.

Also, Dundalk will play at the same time as Manchester United do, so exposure in Pubs, Restuarents etc might been affected by that.

[Dodge]

Dundalk's fixtures
15 Sep (a) v AZ
29 Sep (h) v Maccabi
20 Oct (h) v Zenit
3 Nov (a) v Zenit
24 Nov (h) v AZ
8 Dec (a) v Maccabi

[BonnieShels]

Dundalk's fixtures
15 Sep (a) v AZ
29 Sep (h) v Maccabi
20 Oct (h) v Zenit
3 Nov (a) v Zenit
24 Nov (h) v AZ
8 Dec (a) v Maccabi

Crap.

Looks like I ain't getting to AZ game.

[Ashbohs]

2 points in their first 3 games is doable

[El-Pietro]

Will be interesting if they reach the Cup Final. Am I right in saying the final is scheduled for November 6th?

[ger121]

Dundalk's fixtures
15 Sep (a) v AZ
29 Sep (h) v Maccabi
20 Oct (h) v Zenit
3 Nov (a) v Zenit
24 Nov (h) v AZ
8 Dec (a) v Maccabi

Russia in November, lovely. Wasn't Rovers game vs Rubin played in well below zero temperatures. Those 2 homes games in a row are the key to how the group will pan out for them. Only thing is will they be exhausted due to the fixture pile up as the season draws to a close.

If they can nick a point away against a AZ team not long into their season, then would set them up nicely going into Maccabi at home.

Exciting times to be a Dundalk supporter. We'd all wish it was our own clubs. Enjoy the ride! (Not the Amsterdam one)

[Ezeikial]

yea i meant more as a realistic target for the manager/fans. its hard to see them getting 9 points. As a skeptic its hard to see them getting even 4 points. Fans/manager should aiming for somewhere in the middle

No, no, no.

Manager and players should aim for the sky.

Fans should dream the wildest dreams possible

[Charlie Darwin]

Tough enough group on paper but I said the same about BATE. With a couple of new players in the squad should be able to stretch a bit better for these games, but still a tough ask for a team at the end of a long season.

[legendz]

The changes to the Champions' League have been confirmed so (http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2398611.html).

Reading it though, it looks like the non-champions route is the one to be affected - the champions route is going to stay the same as at present. (There's no indication it's going to change anyway). It seems like, applied to this year, Gladbach, Roma, Villarreal and Man City wouldn't have been in the qualifying round, and Inter would be bumped up to the group stages from the Europa League. It looks like the clubs to potentially lose out are the non-champions of smaller clubs (e.g. Young Boys, Steaua, Porto and Monaco, who played the above four teams)

The changing of club coefficients may benefit Dundalk, but only if they continue qualifying for Europe of course.

Don't think it's quite as bad for the LoI as was being made out?


Based on what you've outlined there Stu, then no not too bad. Haven't had a chance to read the changes in great detail but did see that the number of qualifying spots via the Champions Route will be reduced from 5 to 4. Not sure how that would change the current qualifying structure?
Do 5 currently qualify through the champions route and 5 through the league route?

With 5 extra non-champions set to qualify directly and the retention of both champions and league qualifying routes, there will be changes to the access list. Some champions already qualifying directly might drop into the qualifiers. More champions will probably start off in CLQ1.

All league champions knocked out in the Champions League qualifiers should be allowed into the Europa League:
CLQ1 losers into ELQ2
CLQ2 losers into ELQ3
CLQ3 losers into ELPO
CLPO losers into EL Group stage.

The FAI and similar associations need to be lobbying for some changes like that as compromises for the restructuring. Lol champions were knocked out in CLQ2 from '12 to '15. Involvement in ELQ3 would have been beneficial for more European experience.

If the Europa League needs to be expanded to 64 teams to cater for more league champions, so be it. UEFA should put a stop to Champions League 3rd placed teams parachuting into the Round of 32.

A number of clubs in different counties have complained about long travel in the Europa League. An option of many could be to reformat it as two conferences East and West with 32 teams (8 groups of 4) in each.

Getting back more on topic... Legia won and drew to pick up 4 points in the EL last year. Dundalk will be doing well to get 4 points.

[paul_oshea]

Has anyone seen that image going around from zenit where they show the homer simpson arm grabbing the leprechaun with the caption @easy_odds? That should help motivate them anyway.

Maccabi were lucky last night. I see the Palestine solidarity movement are trying to organise a protest at the Maccabi game. Fair play but if they go to the game I hope they pay any subsequent fines if they display flags.


Seems to me some people here are again hyping up the quality of the teams in this group akin to what was said about BATE previously

Bate were well beaten this year in Europe though, I don't think they were at the races at all this time around. Zenit are a far more formidable side. I've not seen much of Alkmaar(ive always had it in my head that they were turkish) but maccabi definitely aren't what they used to be.

[Real ale Madrid]

According to wiki - all 3 Dundalk home games will kick off at 8.05 - that is a big boost for them. A 6 o clock k.o. trying to get from Dundalk to Tallaght would have hit the crowds.

Really looking forward to watching these - I say Dundalk get 1 shock away win and pick up a few draws at home.

[nigel-harps1954]

Dundalk should not be aiming for anything less than a win in every game.
Set yourself up to fail, and that you will do.

They have absolutely nothing to loose by going out and having a go at teams who will completely underestimate them.

[ger121]

Dundalk should not be aiming for anything less than a win in every game.
Set yourself up to fail, and that you will do.

They have absolutely nothing to loose by going out and having a go at teams who will completely underestimate them.

Nigel,that's exactly what Rovers did in 2011 and lost the lot. They were too gung-ho in games and got some pastings. I'm not for one second stating they defend for 90 minutes but should really target key games in the Group while they try and balance that with winning the League.

[sparky12345678]

Stephen Kenny already set the target of qualifying from the group. That was straight after the Legia match in Warsaw. Why would you expect the manager to have a low target? Kenny is right to aim high. Winners aren't created on an inferiority complex.
I think its great if Kenny aims/hopes to qualify. I think the confidence he had going into these games was backed up by great performances. So I hope now that he has seen the fixture list, like our national managers he will know which games to target for maximum points. To qualify he needs 8-9 points; thats at least 2 wins and a few draws. In my original post I thought 6-7 points is a realistic aim (although not according to others here, most here will be happy with 4points) and anything higher while not unreachable would depend on some luck and some calls going ur way (unlike the penalty call against Legia for example).
I think looking at the fixtures you could aim to surpise AZ and beat them away, beat Tel Aviv at home, and then fighting for a draw at home against Zenit makes the last game away against Tel Aviv very interesting.

[Charlie Darwin]

Dundalk should not be aiming for anything less than a win in every game.
Set yourself up to fail, and that you will do.

They have absolutely nothing to loose by going out and having a go at teams who will completely underestimate them.
A student of Ollie Horgan I see.

[bennocelt]

Seems to me some people here are again hyping up the quality of the teams in this group akin to what was said about BATE previously. For me, its a group that Dundalk should not fear. I think Alkmaar is decent draw despite what some say, Dutch teams usually can't defend, its all about attack with them. Dundalk were solid enough in their games against BATE and Legia and if replicated, they are more than capable of getting points off them. I think Maccabi will be more difficult an opponent but they can be unpredictable at times, so might be chance of a win/draw at home. I think Zenit is an extremely difficult opponent, keeping the score down in both games might be objective there!


Good shout. Just because they are a Dutch team doesn't mean they play like the Ajax of old. I remember when I lived in Holland, how particularly rubbish a lot of the teams were, games with loads of goals all round. Take out the top three and that league was poor. Has it changed since then? Don't know, but Dutch clubs haven't done a whole lot since the 90's.

Maccabi Tel Aviv knocked Basel out of the CL last year. I watched both legs, Basel should have walked both games, they threw both ties away with sloppy defending. Really was a pain and didnt think much of MTA at the time.

St Petersburg, not a hope.

As long as they remain competitive, Dundalk have a chance for at least one win....

[nigel-harps1954]

A student of Ollie Horgan I see.

"Everyone is better than us, we're in a relegation battle and nothing else. We'll be lucky to finish off the bottom of the First Division next season."

[total hoofball]

Dundalk's Fixtures up on the UEFA website, Tallaght Stadium listed as their home stadium


AZ Alkmaar (a) 15/09/2016 18.00
Maccabi Tel Aviv (h) 29/09/2016 20.05
Zenit Saint Petersburg (h) 20/10/2016 20.05
Zenit Saint Petersburg (a) 03/11/2016 18.00
AZ Alkmaar (h) 24/11/2016 20.05
Maccabi Tel Aviv (a) 08/12/2016 18.00

[ger121]

Dundalk's Fixtures up on the UEFA website, Tallaght Stadium listed as their home stadium


AZ Alkmaar (a) 15/09/2016 18.00
Maccabi Tel Aviv (h) 29/09/2016 20.05
Zenit Saint Petersburg (h) 20/10/2016 20.05
Zenit Saint Petersburg (a) 03/11/2016 18.00
AZ Alkmaar (h) 24/11/2016 20.05
Maccabi Tel Aviv (a) 08/12/2016 18.00

Tallaght is the right venue for them. Ask BATE.

[littlebray]

Will be interesting if they reach the Cup Final. Am I right in saying the final is scheduled for November 6th?

Correct. In the "Dublin Arena" as UEFA insisted it be called last week ... no advertising, you know.

Question is, which will be moved???

[EatYerGreens]

Up to Dundalk to do a marketing job on all the games to get a good crowd along for them.

Create a bit of hype around European football being in Dublin, do a ticket deal on the 4 home fixtures if bought together upfront etc

[legendz]

Dundalk need to try and exert some influence on European football if they can. Through or with the assistance of the FAI they need to argue and lobby that all league champions exiting the CL qualifiers should be placed in the following EL round.

If Dundalk win the league as expected this year, there's no guarantees they'll get through their first qualifying round next year, such is the obvious nature of knockout football. In such a scenario entering the following EL would be beneficial for their continued experience of European football. UEFA are talking of increasing the money for teams losing out in the qualifiers. Champions of lower ranked leagues need more European games along with the increase in money that'll be offered to them as a sweetener for accepting the tougher qualification route.

[Ezeikial]

Up to Dundalk to do a marketing job on all the games to get a good crowd along for them.

Create a bit of hype around European football being in Dublin, do a ticket deal on the 4 home fixtures if bought together upfront etc

Should the 1st phase of the knock outs be included when the opposition is not known?

[Ezeikial]

Champions of lower ranked leagues need more European games along with the increase in money that'll be offered to them as a sweetener for accepting the tougher qualification route.

What is the leverage?

Threaten to form a breakaway competition?