League of Ireland in Europe 2016

[TheBoss]

Just having a quick look at the possible opponents for Dundalk in the Champions League, its probably the toughest lineup a LOI side can face, it just seems every year its getting harder and harder, although Dundalk's performances against BATE were admirable perhaps giving some optimism. Most leagues are not over and some are very tight but you would expect the usual better sides just to nick them. I guesstimated the 4 teams from Qualifying Round 1.

Possible Seedings: [(-1)= Game in Hand]



Club
Nation
Co-eff
Status


Salzburg
Aut
42.520
6 Points Clear


Celtic
Sco
40.460
8 Points Clear


APOEL
Cyp
35.935
2 Points Clear


BATE Borisov
Bls
34.000
CHAMPIONS


Legia Warsaw
Pol
28.000
1 Point Clear


Dinamo Zagreb
Cro
25.775
4 Point Clear


Ludogorets
Bul
25.625
9 Points Clear (-1)


København
Den
24.720
7 Points Clear


Maccabi Tel-Aviv
Isr
20.225
2 Points Behind (-1)


Qarabag
Azb
13.475
13 Points Clear


Rosenborg BK
Nor
12.850
CHAMPIONS


FK Astana
Kaz
12.575
CHAMPIONS


Skënderbeu Korçë
Alb
7.825
6 Points Clear


Red Star Belgrade
Srb
7.175
15 Points Clear


Dinamo Tbilisi
Geo
5.875
11 Points Clear


FH Hafnarfjardar
Isl
5.750
CHAMPIONS


Trencín
Svk
5.400
9 Points Clear


-
-
-



The New Saints
Wal
5.200
CHAMPIONS


F91 Dudelange
Lux
5.050
8 Points Clear


Zalgiris Vilnius
Lit
4.925
CHAMPIONS


Olimpija Ljubljana
Slo
4.625
2 Points Clear


Valletta
Mlt
4.466
5 Points Clear


Dacia Chisinau
Mol
4.325
Level (-1)


Vardar Skopje
Mac
4.200
5 Points Clear


IFK Norrköping
Swe
3.975
CHAMPIONS


Ferencváros
Hun
3.475
CHAMPIONS


Crusaders
Nir
3.400
8 Points Clear


Flora Tallinn
Est
3.350
CHAMPIONS


Zrinjski
Bos
3.125
Level


FC Santa Coloma
And
2.699
CHAMPIONS


Dundalk
Irl
2.590
CHAMPIONS


Mladost
Mon
2.475
8 Points Clear


SJK Seinäjoki
Fin
1.730
CHAMPIONS


FK Liepaja
Lat
1.075
CHAMPIONS



The only thing that Dundalk fans could hope for is that Maccabi Tel-Aviv lose to Hapoel Be'er Sheva (4.725), meaning that The New Saints would be seeded. But that would be meaningless unless Maribor [Slo] (21.625) or Sheriff [Mol] (10.575) win their respective leagues

[seand]

Yes, two weak teams winning in Finland and Sweden means they will both be unseeded, taking out a couple of the usual northern European opponents. Once again hoping that TNS can sneak into the seeds. Apart from that you'd think there's only 1 or 2 clubs Dundalk would have any chance against.

I'm primarily thinking in terms of a nice trip........

[Dodge]

Bookmark this. It will do the work for you.

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=4FE4712A1E3EA4FA!264&ithint=file%2cxlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AE6GANv4hXH3YuQ

Second tab is for the Europa League. Pats and Rovers to be seeded in QR1, but not in QR2. Cork unseeded throughout

[PartySaint]

Yes, two weak teams winning in Finland and Sweden means they will both be unseeded, taking out a couple of the usual northern European opponents. Once again hoping that TNS can sneak into the seeds. Apart from that you'd think there's only 1 or 2 clubs Dundalk would have any chance against.

I'm primarily thinking in terms of a nice trip........

It's a nightmare list in terms of potential opponents, the handiest draw if TNS don't get in there is probably Celtic of all teams.

[bennocelt]

Bookmark this. It will do the work for you.

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=4FE4712A1E3EA4FA!264&ithint=file%2cxlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AE6GANv4hXH3YuQ

Second tab is for the Europa League. Pats and Rovers to be seeded in QR1, but not in QR2. Cork unseeded throughout

Dodge you are a star, had last years one bookmarked but couldn't for the life of me find this years one, will be hours of enjoyment with this baby, cheers:D

As for the CL, id fancy Dundalk against that team from Albania any day of the week, or the Icelandic team.......all depends on the draw though

[seand]

The Albanians Skenderbeu have a massive amount of experience in Europe. They've won 3 CL ties and playing in the EL groups in the last 3 years. (They could get done by Partizan who would be unseeded but it looks unlikely) We'll probably be kept away from Albania anyway when it is 'regionally' grouped- in fact we'll probably be kept away from most of the seeds we might have had half a chance against (Albania, Serbia, Georgia, Slovakia). Hard to tell but we could well end up in a Northern European mini group with Celtic, BATE, Rosenborg, Levski, Copenhagen and FH. And draw BATE again, obviously.

[Dodge]

The groups last time out were pretty good for Dundalk

Year before Pats "regional" group was Romania, Croatia, Bulgaria, Poland, Azerbaijan and Finland

[El-Pietro]

I didn't think UEFA grouped the CL Qualifiers by Region? Europa League/UEFA Cup always was (though last year was a complete mess so who knows what the process is anymore, one of the teams we could have been drawn against were Inter Baku of Azerbaijan).

We drew a team from Cyprus in 2006, and Derry went to Armenia in 2007 though that was in a slightly different format. When they added that preliminary round in 2009 Bohs played Red Bull Salzburg. The recent second round ties have been geographically kind to Irish teams but in each year I can see at least one tie (not involving Irish teams) that can't be explained by Geographic grouping.
2015/16 Molde (Norway) vs Pyunik (Armenia)
2014/15 Stromsgodet (Norway) vs Steaua Bucherest (Romania)
2013/14 Dinamo Tblisi (Georgia) vs EB/Streymur (Faroes)
2012/13 AEL Limasol (Cyprus) vs Linfield (N.Ireland)

Now it may be that the quirks of geography mean that in a given year there has to be one or two draws with teams on opposite sides of Europe and other than that they are loosely geographically based. Looking at it a little closer it does appear that from about 2011-12 on the Northern European teams were drawn against each other more frequently.

I wish they would be more transparent on this to make it a little easier to plan for. I had figured out routes and hotels for just about every possible destination I thought we could get, and then they almost dropped Azerbaijan on us. If we had been sent to Azerbaijan we'd have been screwed for Visas.

[seand]

It's not done officially in the CL. (Is it done officially in the EL?) You're drawing from a fairly small pot anyway- 34 teams in qualifying round 2- and you don't know what countries are going to provide the seeds. There might be no northern European seeds. While it is (or seems to be) informally regionalised there has to be flexibility to allow for geographical clumping of seeds or non-seeds. If UEFA want a roughly northern European group the likely seeds would be the champions of Belarus, Scotland, Iceland, Denmark, Poland and Norway. The possible nonseeds would come from Ireland north and south, Sweden, Finland, Wales, 3 Baltic states, Luxembourg and the first round qualifiers, so we're looking at an imbalance there already.

[Nesta99]

'European mini group with Celtic, BATE, Rosenborg, Levski, Copenhagen and FH

Imagine what Ollie Horgan's positive outlook would be if it was actually Finn Harps in the potential pot above....

[Mr A]

Look, we'll give it a go. We won't be found wanting for endeavour.

[Nesta99]

"Look, we'll give it a go. We won't be found wanting for endeavour.....they're much stronger than us, we will probably be hammered but sure look it we will turn up "...(or is that a bit too Buckly or JC)

[outspoken]

http://m.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2016/0503/785822-kosovo/

Kosovan clubs now eligible to compete in European competition. You'd imagine that's another set of opponents our LOI clubs could beat. Good stuff.

[Dodge]

Updated link to track seedings

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=4FE4712A1E3EA4FA!264&ithint=file%2cxlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AAEY2-peVXk6VaI

[TheBoss]

Still possible that TNS (If they win in Q1 ;)) may be seeded.

In Israel, Hapoel Be'er Sheva 5 points ahead of Maccabi with 2 games left.
In Slovenia, Olimpija & Maribor are level on points with 3 games left.
In Moldova, Sheriff & Dacia are level on points with 2 games left, They play each other on the final day.

[TheBoss]

Still possible that TNS (If they win in Q1 ;)) may be seeded.

In Israel, Hapoel Be'er Sheva 5 points ahead of Maccabi with 2 games left.
In Slovenia, Olimpija & Maribor are level on points with 3 games left.
In Moldova, Sheriff & Dacia are level on points with 2 games left, They play each other on the final day.

Update.

Its now down to 2 leagues as Olimpija won the Slovenian league.
Hapoel Be'er Sheva are now only 2 points ahead of Maccabi with just 1 game left which is on Saturday.
Sheriff & Dacia are still level on points, they face each other on the final day on Friday. If its a draw, they will have play each other again in a championship playoff!


http://m.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2016/0503/785822-kosovo/

Kosovan clubs now eligible to compete in European competition. You'd imagine that's another set of opponents our LOI clubs could beat. Good stuff.

They actually could compete this season!

http://www.uefa.org/mediaservices/newsid=2365958.html


Regarding the integration of Kosovan clubs in the UEFA competitions 2016/17, the UEFA Executive Committee decided that the domestic champion and the domestic cup winner could be admitted to the first qualifying round of the UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League respectively, only if they could meet licensing criteria under article 15 of the UEFA Club Licensing & Financial Fair Play regulations. This assessment will be made by the UEFA administration within the deadline of 31 May 2016.

[Nesta99]

http://m.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2016/0503/785822-kosovo/

Kosovan clubs now eligible to compete in European competition. You'd imagine that's another set of opponents our LOI clubs could beat. Good stuff.

The holy grail of getting seeded in Q2 is probably needed to get such a draw. But if TNS are knocking on the door well it is certainly possible. This may be an obvious question or i've missed it somewhere - is it better to be in Q1 seeded and win the 2 legs to improve co-efficient than to go in to Q2 unseeded lose both legs and make little impact on the co-efficient. Seeing Crusaders ranked higher than Dundalk considering qualification for Europe in 2010/14/15 and this season which will hopefully produce results regardless of being unseeded. I guess 2010 has fallen off for this season? In the past if you entered European competition at a latter stage were co-eff points awarded as if you had won through the previous rounds or is that a myth? Similar with prizemoney, take your chance as a seeded side in Q1 accumulate winning the round and going in to Q2? All questions I am!

[seand]

My understanding is that it used to be a case the a club gained coefficient points for winning matches, so you were better off starting in Q1, beating an Andorran team then winning home and losing away in Q2 than starting in Q3 and losing both games. Now you'll be better off starting in Q3 and losing home and away than winning 3 games in Q1 and Q2. From a coef point of view there's no benefit in winning thru Q1 to get into Q2- you're as well off starting in Q2. (Teams in Q1 will get extra prize money for playing in Q1 though, which just helps to ensure the likes TNS will romp through their leagues for the foreseeable future.)

TNS have built up their coefficient by just being there every year over the last 5 years. Likewise Irish clubs (Dundalk, UCD) have been blessed enough to play seeded Luxembourgish teams that built up coefficient by qualifying fairly regularly.

Match wins contribute to country coefficient though, which is a smaller component of club coefficient and which determines who starts in what round.

All the above is subject to confusion and wrongness.

[Djm1901]

What effect would allowing the Kosovan champions into the QR1 have on the seeding for TNS? It would make an uneven number of clubs in that round so they would either have to give a bye to someone or drop a team back from the 2nd QR

[Dodge]

My understanding is that it used to be a case the a club gained coefficient points for winning matches, so you were better off starting in Q1, beating an Andorran team then winning home and losing away in Q2 than starting in Q3 and losing both games.

That was never the case for qualification rounds. Since the introduction of the Europa League they have awarded club points based on the rounds that you exit it.

Winning games/drawing games only ever effected the national rating (which now makes up 20% of the club rating)

Bohs got 2 points for beating Kaiserslautern and Shels got a point for drawing with Lille. Until 2009, no other clubs had won club points

I try to explain it here
http://extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/14549/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-the-uefa-club-co-efficient-system/

[seand]

Cheers dodge. There used to be half points for the clubs in the qualifying rounds, did there not, pre Europa League? Maybe they just contributed to national coef. I'm quite hazy on the unimportant Euro games played in the 2003-2009 period anyway ;)

[Dodge]

Cheers dodge. There used to be half points for the clubs in the qualifying rounds, did there not, pre Europa League? Maybe they just contributed to national coef. I'm quite hazy on the unimportant Euro games played in the 2003-2009 period anyway ;)

No, nothing for clubs, just towards the national ranking (so effectively all irish clubs had the same co-efficient most years)

[El-Pietro]

Yeah you only got points after a certain round, I think the non Qualifying rounds, and even then I'm not sure did they add to your total, or did they only come into play if you surpassed the national total.

[pineapple stu]

Countries got 1 point for a qualifying round win and 2 points for a full round win, which is where the half-points in the qualifying rounds came in.

We got very few full points obviously - Shels v Lille/Depor kind of stuff I think. They were the only ones that clubs got credit for too.

[TheBoss]

What effect would allowing the Kosovan champions into the QR1 have on the seeding for TNS? It would make an uneven number of clubs in that round so they would either have to give a bye to someone or drop a team back from the 2nd QR

Won't make a difference, I believe that lowest ranked country in Q2 will have to go into Q1, which will be Latvia.

[Nesta99]

Cheers dodge. There used to be half points for the clubs in the qualifying rounds, did there not, pre Europa League? Maybe they just contributed to national coef. I'm quite hazy on the unimportant Euro games played in the 2003-2009 period anyway ;)

Yup! European draw time only caused anything from jealousy to anger to frustration to weepy yearning for the days of almost annual European games in Oriel. Apologies for the questions but I have listened to a number of 'experts' on the subject coming up to June for the last few years and people swearing on lives of wives and betting small fortunes in beers on how the whole system worked and then changed 2010. None were all accurate with all parts so this year I shall have this very thread ready to go. Cheers Sean, Dodge, Stu, I might even earn a few free beer tokens myself when the inevitable conversation starts and confusion rumbles on!

[TheBoss]

Update.

Hapoel Be'er Sheva were crowned Israeli champions at the weekend which some Dundalk fans maybe pleased about as Maccabi will not be an option for them.

Which just leaves the Moldovan league for a potential TNS seeding.
Sheriff & Dacia just happened to be a draw triggering that championship playoff which is scheduled for Sunday.

Dundalk will face one of these teams I would catagorise them in following way,

BOLD = No thank you!
Italic = Could have been worse!
Underline = At least we have some chance!



Celtic
Dinamo Zagreb
København
Legia Warsaw
Red Star Belgrade
Salzburg

APOEL
BATE Borisov
FK Astana
Ludogorets
Qarabag
Rosenborg BK

Dinamo Tbilisi
FH Hafnarfjardar
Skënderbeu Korçë
Trencín
TNS* or Sherrif

*Or team that defeats TNS in Q1

[gufcfan]

A trip to Iceland is probably best case then.

[brendy_éire]

A trip to Iceland is probably best case then.

Cork fans might disagree, but they should beat an Icelandic side.
For cost, ease of travel and chance of progression TNS would be great. Don't think they'll get through though.

[nigel-harps1954]

I'd have BATE in as definite no thanks ahead of Celtic. That would be a genuine chance to catch a team in transition on the hop.

[seand]

Yep, BATE definitely one of the worst draws. Red Star would be one of the best draws to get I reckon, not sure why TheBoss has them in the group to be avoided.... 1989 European Cup maybe ;-)

[TheBoss]

BATE are a team that do not blow away the opposition, you will always a have a good chance of competing with them. Their recent record in CL Qualifying over the last 3/4 seasons has shown that they have almost scraped through to the group stages. Their high co-eff has helped them hugely in this regard, if they were unseeded in later qualfying rounds, I do not think they would be qualifying for the group stages. We seen last season that Dundalk were relatively comfortable in playing away in Borisov, it was home match that Dundalk struggled in maybe as their style of play seems to be affected by their pitch (Yes, I mentioned it).

[White Horse]

We seen last season that Dundalk were relatively comfortable in playing away in Borisov, it was home match that Dundalk struggled in maybe as their style of play seems to be affected by their pitch (Yes, I mentioned it).

BATE are an efficient, street wise team. They knew what they needed to do in Oriel Park. They made sure Dundalk had no space to create anything and were unlucky not to score one or two goals on the break themselves.

They are not a team I'd like to play again.

[mcgonigle]

I think Bate underestimated us in the first leg and should have scored 5 in the second. That would not happen again and so they're the team I would like to avoid the most

[Charlie Darwin]

They were worthy winners over two legs but no way they should have scored five in the second leg. It was a 1-0, maybe 2-0 game that Dundalk did well to stay in until the end. The game was lost with the missed chances and poor goals conceded in the away leg.

[SkStu]

Salzburg, TNS, random Icelandic minnow team.

This page of this thread is a Bohs fans worst nightmare.

[Charlie Darwin]

Salzburg, TNS, random Icelandic minnow team.

This page of this thread is a Bohs fans worst nightmare.
I'd say every page of every thread is a Bohs fan's worst nightmare but I can't really comment either.

[pineapple stu]

What's a "European nightmare"? :p

[nigel-harps1954]

I've never seen Harps beaten by a European minnow like the rest of ye. We're unbeaten in Europe in almost 40 years.

[patrickccfc]

What's a "European nightmare"? :p

Losing 4-0 to FC Haka

[Nesta99]

Not beating a team that were trying to throw the match!?

[pineapple stu]

Tee hee!

Up there with Shels losing to Hibs of Malta as my favourite LoI in Europe defeat. :)

I hope all LoI clubs do well in Europe, but if they're going to fail, I hope they do it in hilarious fashion.

[Dodge]

What's a "European nightmare"? :p

losing 5-0 home and away

[Nesta99]

Tee hee!

Up there with Shels losing to Hibs of Malta as my favourite LoI in Europe defeat. :)

I hope all LoI clubs do well in Europe, but if they're going to fail, I hope they do it in hilarious fashion.

I enjoyed that one too but purely to see the look on Pat Fenlon's face. Wasn't it a David Crawley moment of madness that gifted an away goal?

[El-Pietro]

Losing 4-0 to FC Haka

Being a goal up in Iceland in the second leg with the opposition down to ten men at half time and somehow finding a way to lose. I was close to calling home to have someone book my flights to Norway.

[legendz]

My usual hope for LoI teams is for the champions to make the EL play-offs and at least one of the other teams to make EL Q3.

[patrickccfc]

Being a goal up in Iceland in the second leg with the opposition down to ten men at half time and somehow finding a way to lose. I was close to calling home to have someone book my flights to Norway.

I was going to say that game alright as it was very bad that we threw that one away. Haka was just embarrassing though. Hopefully we fair a bit better this year

[Yossarian]

So unfortunately TNS will not be seeded in the Champions League thanks to Sheriff winning the league in Moldova. Looks like the best outcome for Dundalk in the draw would be FH from Iceland. As long as we avoid BATE and any of the other former Soviet teams. Though if we play the way we played today against Wexford then it will make no odds who we draw.

[TheBoss]

So unfortunately TNS will not be seeded in the Champions League thanks to Sheriff winning the league in Moldova. Looks like the best outcome for Dundalk in the draw would be FH from Iceland. As long as we avoid BATE and any of the other former Soviet teams. Though if we play the way we played today against Wexford then it will make no odds who we draw.

I mentioned previously but the pitch at Oriel seems to be a major issue for Dundalk. Check out this season so far, they have have gotten a decent return playing at Home but performances have been OK in general but it is clear to see the away record is much much better.



HOME
5-1-1
11-5


AWAY
7-0-0
24-2



Also in addition to that, Dundalk are currently 26 league games unbeaten away from home and they scored in every single one of them. Last league away defeat was in September 2014 when Pats won 1-0.

[White Horse]

I mentioned previously but the pitch at Oriel seems to be a major issue for Dundalk. Check out this season so far, they have have gotten a decent return playing at Home but performances have been OK in general but it is clear to see the away record is much much better.



HOME
5-1-1
11-5


AWAY
7-0-0
24-2



Also in addition to that, Dundalk are currently 26 league games unbeaten away from home and they scored in every single one of them. Last league away defeat was in September 2014 when Pats won 1-0.

The pitch is a major issue for the club. However, it isn't the reason for Dundalk's better away form. You have to bear in mind that many away games are played on horrific surfaces.

The tactics away teams employ at Oriel is the significant factor for the stats you quote.