New Irish manager

[mackannovic]

But fact is Kerr won a LOI, and I bet some Mexican wizard has won a bag loads of titles way off in Mexico City. And can you believe it that O Shea has a few EPL champs medals as well!! Wow.....proves nothing

I am just going on what I saw for myself, the football under Trap with Italy was a joke, a waste of pure talent in a bad world cup.

And you still havent answered my question..............have you seen Benfica/Salzburg/Munich play under Trap? Because seeing a football match rather than losing the run of yourself with stats usually works wonders!


Trappatoni has won every club competition in European Football plus a poxy Intercontinental Cup, so pretty much you could say he's won it all. In my opinion that stands to the man more than Brian Kerrs LOI or Randomanuel Mexicano.

The World Cup match v Korea was a farce of a game, and if you'd been watching Traps career you'd know this.

Greece won a European Championship being ugly but I can't think of many Greeks complaining about that.

[fergalr]

Today's take from the Guardian:
http://football.guardian.co.uk/Fiver/0,,2252845,00.html

May fav bit :
"There wasn't a bad word said about him," toora-looed Shay Given, proving that nobody in the Irish dressing room is familiar with the work of the tikka-tinged spiv who has never got a team through the qualifying stages of an international tournament and last achieved anything noteworthy in management back in 1991.

[iceman]

Whats most annoying is that the U21's are playing a UEFA qualifier against England tonight and where is Givens? - in Malahide preparing the senior side for a money-spinner for the FAI against Brazil. I sincerely hope he travels to England tonight. Priorities:confused:

[SUB of the day]

According to RTE Sport the new mans appointment will be confirmed after the match on Wednesday.They claim Trapattoni remains favourite, but that Billy Davies has entered the frame.IMO, the leaking of the Davies story has kicked the 10 days time line to touch.King Billys inauguration is Imminent:mad:....KING BILLY TO LEAD GREEN ARMY! UGH

[mackannovic]

Whats most annoying is that the U21's are playing a UEFA qualifier against England tonight and where is Givens? - in Malahide preparing the senior side for a money-spinner for the FAI against Brazil. I sincerely hope he travels to England tonight. Priorities:confused:

Be honest very few people care about U-21 footbal in this country because any half decent U-21 player should be in our first team squad.

[Stuttgart88]

Be honest very few people care about U-21 footbal in this country because any half decent U-21 player should be in our first team squad.Which is entirely the wong attitude. We should care about underage results and underage players should only be in the senior squad on merit, not based on promise. Morrison vs Long for example.

So what if we have to delve into the Championship to make up the cover places? It didn't do NI or Scotland too much harm playing non-EPL players last time out.

[Mayo_Bhoy]

Today's take from the Guardian:
http://football.guardian.co.uk/Fiver/0,,2252845,00.html


With Father Jack Hackett, Larry Mullen Jr and the alcoholic Leprechaun from the prohibition episode of The Simpsons all unavailable, the FAI gave the job of finding a new gaffer to Don Givens (an FAI employee), Don Howe (a mate of Terry Venables) and Ray Houghton (a wee Scotsman) more than three months ago. However, since then they've conducted more interviews than Michael Parkinson on speed. Among those to have taken the crossbar challenge using a Lucozade Sport bottle instead of a ball are Venables, Ged Houllier, Venables Graeme Souness, Venables, Didier Deschamps, Venables, Theme Pub O'Fiver, Venables, Roy Race, Venables, Samuel Beckett, Venables, attention-seeking Dublin "supermodel" Andrea Roche, Venables and a series of random passers-by on Dublin's O'Connell Street.

:D:D

[mackannovic]

Which is entirely the wong attitude. We should care about underage results and underage players should only be in the senior squad on merit, not based on promise. Morrison vs Long for example.

So what if we have to delve into the Championship to make up the cover places? It didn't do NI or Scotland too much harm playing non-EPL players last time out.

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[carloz]

If its going to happen straight after the Brazil game then it will be Venables. The FAI know it will be a PR disaster if he was announced before or during the Brazil game, they know by now the fans feelings on the man.

[carloz]

My gut feeling that any chance that it was Trap is gone by now. Im sure they would have tried to parade him at the brazil game if possible as he would get a great reception. As i said on another thread, if they were going to give it to El Tel, they were always going to do it after the Brazil game to avoid the inevitable PR disaster if he were at Croker

[NeilMcD]

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Oh you are the smart one, Stuttgart is one of the people on this board who puts across an intelligent and well balanced view of the Irish set up etc. From his posts etc it also shows he cares about the team and the future of the team. I am sure he will be down in Southampton tonight if he can make it.

You sir add nothing to the forum with rubbish comments like that that only reveal an ingnorance on your part.

[the doc]

According to RTE Sport the new mans appointment will be confirmed after the match on Wednesday.They claim Trapattoni remains favourite, but that Billy Davies has entered the frame.IMO, the leaking of the Davies story has kicked the 10 days time line to touch.King Billys inauguration is Imminent:mad:....KING BILLY TO LEAD GREEN ARMY! UGH

Yep thats what I heard too

[tetsujin1979]

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Classic answer. Comments like that just goes to show the lack of interest, or even awareness of the underage setup at the moment.

Ever consider that success at underage level would lead to success at senior level? Duff, Keane, Dunne all experienced success under Kerr, got fasttracked into the senior team, and were all part of the last time we qualified for a tournament. You think that's a coincidence?

Or it's another coincidence when the youth team of a club gets to the FA Youth Cup final, and 2-3 years later they suddenly have a team of young, hungry, intelligent players?

You can't really argue that Long is better off watching Brazil from the bench than playing against a team made up almost entirely of Premiership players?

Ever wonder why there hasn't been another glut of young players making the breakthrough to the senior team since the days when Mick McCarthy gave debuts to Dunne, Keane, Duff, McPhail, Quinn?

[dr_peepee]

Oh you are the smart one, Stuttgart is one of the people on this board who puts across an intelligent and well balanced view of the Irish set up etc. From his posts etc it also shows he cares about the team and the future of the team. I am sure he will be down in Southampton tonight if he can make it.

You sir add nothing to the forum with rubbish comments like that that only reveal an ingnorance on your part.

Here Neil.... Is it dark up there????:D

[Stuttgart88]

In fairness I admit that I do sound a bit like a broken record on the issue of younger players playing senior football when they're not ready :)

[tetsujin1979]

Even a broken record is right twice a day! Or something

[geysir]

Nah, it just means that you have to give Stutts a gentle whack and then he moves on.

[bennocelt]

Which is entirely the wong attitude. We should care about underage results and underage players should only be in the senior squad on merit, not based on promise. Morrison vs Long for example.

So what if we have to delve into the Championship to make up the cover places? It didn't do NI or Scotland too much harm playing non-EPL players last time out.


def agree with this
One of the terrible things about the present FAI is the neglect of the under 21's and the underage set-up. I think it goes without saying that if you can mould good players and give them good match type pressures, etc at a young setting then it can only benefit the senior team. Givens has totally destroyed the under 21's which i think is a detriment to the senior team

[bennocelt]

Trappatoni has won every club competition in European Football plus a poxy Intercontinental Cup, so pretty much you could say he's won it all. In my opinion that stands to the man more than Brian Kerrs LOI or Randomanuel Mexicano.

The World Cup match v Korea was a farce of a game, and if you'd been watching Traps career you'd know this.

Greece won a European Championship being ugly but I can't think of many Greeks complaining about that.

Korea deserved to win that game. Now Spain on the otherhand...........

Greece were the best and most organised team at that Euros. They didnt fluke it, they deserved their success. The Czechs played good football but just couldnt pull it all together.

Again why is he a good manager? What is his coaching ability? Is he good with players? Are his teams solid and compact? etc, etc
These kind of questions are more in line with what im talking about?
Funny how many just use wikipedia to get their answers!

[carloz]

Again why is he a good manager?
Success in almost every job he has had. Won silverware in Italy, Portugal, Germany and Austria.

What is his coaching ability?
He won the Austrian Bundesliga last season by 19 points. This is with a middle of the road Austrian team to make it better. Even at the ripe old age of 68 he is obviously still a successful coach.

Is he good with players?]
He gets the best out of them, thats all that matters.

Are his teams solid and compact?
Always have been nd its a trait of his that all his teams are very solid

This is a man that is in the top 5 managers in the world today IMO. What right have we to question him so vigourously. We are Ireland for gods sake, if we can attract a manager of that calibre would be immense. To compare him to Billy Davis and El Tel is just bloody degrading and a complete insult

[Armando]

Korea deserved to win that game. Now Spain on the otherhand...........

Greece were the best and most organised team at that Euros. They didnt fluke it, they deserved their success. The Czechs played good football but just couldnt pull it all together.

Again why is he a good manager? What is his coaching ability? Is he good with players? Are his teams solid and compact? etc, etc
These kind of questions are more in line with what im talking about?
Funny how many just use wikipedia to get their answers!


Can't agree with that...and Italians had perfectly good goal ruled out.

[carloz]

Korea deserved to win that game.
I have to disagree here. Up until Totti was sent off Italy were much the better team. Korea got every bloody decision in that World Cup

[Armando]

Ye, and Totti was sent off, 2nd yellow for diving. He didn't dive and Italy should have got a peno.

I actually remember being angry watching that game. the ref and assistants were so bias towards Korea...how none of them got their marching orders after a litany of crude fouls I'll never know?

[paul_oshea]

ya there was something very fishy about that world cup, and im not trying to be funny using that word. Wouldn't be surprised if some of those refs were on it.

[OwlsFan]

Ye, and Totti was sent off, 2nd yellow for diving. He didn't dive and Italy should have got a peno.

I actually remember being angry watching that game. the ref and assistants were so bias towards Korea...how none of them got their marching orders after a litany of crude fouls I'll never know?

Let's see how unbiased you'd be with 80k Koreans breathing down your neck. Refs are only human and there has to a pyschological tendency to favour home teams. I'd love someone to do a study of penalties and compare how many home penos are awarded compared to away penos.

[paul_oshea]

pyschological tendency

or money! :8

[OwlsFan]

or money! :8

Bet you don't think Oswald shot Kennedy :p

[Deckydee]

http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=sport-qqqm=sport-qqqa=sport-qqqid=54643-qqqx=1.asp

[mackannovic]

Classic answer. Comments like that just goes to show the lack of interest, or even awareness of the underage setup at the moment.

Ever consider that success at underage level would lead to success at senior level? Duff, Keane, Dunne all experienced success under Kerr, got fasttracked into the senior team, and were all part of the last time we qualified for a tournament. You think that's a coincidence?

Or it's another coincidence when the youth team of a club gets to the FA Youth Cup final, and 2-3 years later they suddenly have a team of young, hungry, intelligent players?

You can't really argue that Long is better off watching Brazil from the bench than playing against a team made up almost entirely of Premiership players?

Ever wonder why there hasn't been another glut of young players making the breakthrough to the senior team since the days when Mick McCarthy gave debuts to Dunne, Keane, Duff, McPhail, Quinn?

Clubs develop players ability not a meeting with your fellow countrymen for 5 days every 2-3 months.

[macdermesser]

Sheffield United boss Bryan Robson has been given two more games to save his job. (Daily Express)

Appoint a manager quick .. before JD gets any new (old) ideas!!

[tetsujin1979]

Clubs develop players ability not a meeting with your fellow countrymen for 5 days every 2-3 months.
My point was that those players were successful at underage level, and brought that success through to the senior team.
Since then there's been precious little success at underage level, and it's followed through to the seniors

[mackannovic]

My point was that those players were successful at underage level, and brought that success through to the senior team.
Since then there's been precious little success at underage level, and it's followed through to the seniors

The success was there because of stream of decent players not what happened at underage level. Plus if you call qualifying for one major competition and goin out in the 2nd round after only beating Saudi Arabia success you should probably raise your standards a bit.

[tetsujin1979]

The success was there because of stream of decent players not what happened at underage level. Plus if you call qualifying for one major competition and goin out in the 2nd round after only beating Saudi Arabia success you should probably raise your standards a bit.
more success than we've had since then

[OwlsFan]

Plus if you call goin out in the 2nd round after only beating Saudi Arabia success you should probably raise your standards a bit.

Or you could call not losing any of the 4 games in 90 minutes, despite the absence of your best player, including games against two of football's world powers, a success. Depends on which glasses you're wearing.

[mackannovic]

Or you could call not losing any of the 4 games in 90 minutes, despite the absence of your best player, including games against two of football's world powers, a success. Depends on which glasses you're wearing.

It certainly does but this is getting off the point. I still think we're grossly underachieving. Should we be settling for and celebrating glorious draws??

My case was for Trap, being that our defence is arguably at its weakest in a long time with the exception of Richie Dunne, so Trappatoni a man notorius for making teams difficult to beat would be ideal. Part if not our main problem in the last campaign was conceding stupid goals, that a well organised side would never.

[TheBoss]

I would say that are defence is our strong point.

[amaccann]

Would it be correct (cos I'm too lazy to work it out myself) that Trap has won more major trophies than all the other "contenders" put together?

[OwlsFan]

It certainly does but this is getting off the point. I still think we're grossly underachieving. .

You're right. We should have been winning the World Cup with Gary Breen, Matt Holland and Kevin Kilbane as our main stalwarts.



Should we be settling for and celebrating glorious draws??

My case was for Trap, being that our defence is arguably at its weakest in a long time with the exception of Richie Dunne, so Trappatoni a man notorius for making teams difficult to beat would be ideal.

Hmmm, I just said we were difficult to beat in Korea and you say don't settle for glorious draws and appoint someone "notorius for making teams difficult to beat". :confused:

[mackannovic]

I would say that are defence is our strong point.

Cyprus 5-2, need I say anymore.

[Noelys Guitar]

Why did the amigos interview Davies yesterday the day of the match? Why not wait until this morning. Have Trapp and Venners turned us down or got ****ed off or had other offers.

[NeilMcD]

Maybe it was the only day that they could all meet. Logistics play a big part in all of this.

[eirebhoy]

Cyprus 5-2, need I say anymore.
Kilbane and Ireland in central midfield. Need I say more. I think I'm gonna have to repeat that line again, and again, and again. :) We had no midfield against Cyprus. They won the ball in their half, they were 30 yards from our goal in a few seconds.

[TheBoss]

As eireboy says, its the midfield that is the problem, that would be sorted if we had S Reid and S Ireland in there.

[kingdomkerry]

I would play 5 in midfield to balance out our weakness in midfield.

Something like this

Given
Kelly Dunne O'Shea Kilbane(for home games only)
S Reid Carsley
McGeady Ireland
Duff
Keane



Hunt and Doyle are two good impact subs to have. I believe that the above team if well managed and organised can get us to the World Cup.


As eireboy says, its the midfield that is the problem, that would be sorted if we had S Reid and S Ireland in there.

[geysir]

Giles on Newstalk throws his hat firmly on Trapattoni.
Who said Giles doesn´t know about football outside the EPL :)

He thinks Venables is still ready to take the job if it was offered.
Also he thinks Brady´s application was more or less 'if you can´t get anyone better then you can consider me' and if Giles was Trapattoni he would get Brady in on the backroom staff.

[Bottle of Tonic]

Thats the kind of line-up/formation i'd be looking at too KK.

4-2-3-1 or 4-5-1 or whatever you want to call it. Our strength and weakness both lie in midfield. We have plenty of small skillful types who don't fit in anywhere in a traditional 4-4-2 and an imaginative set up could accomodate the likes of Ireland, McGeady, Duff, Keane(who doesn't play as a normal striker in a 4-4-2 anyway) etc etc. If we could find the right balance midfield is our best area and I could see it getting goals too as I don't think we're good enough up front to play 2 players out of Keane plus one of the underachieving Doyle, Long, Stokes, Murphy.
In a 4-4-2 our midfield is weak and so are our forwards.

What sort of formations does Trappers like to play? Is he adaptable considering what is at his disposal anyone know?

[kingdomkerry]

That team and formation i picked. That might be something that Trapatoni would go for. Some one posted some of the teams and he always plays one striker supported by two wide men (keane, duff and mcgeady)

[Stuttgart88]

Our strength and weakness both lie in midfield. We have plenty of small skillful types who don't fit in anywhere in a traditional 4-4-2 and an imaginative set up could accomodate the likes of Ireland, McGeady, Duff, Keane (who doesn't play as a normal striker in a 4-4-2 anyway) etc etc. If we could find the right balance midfield is our best area and I could see it getting goals too as I don't think we're good enough up front to play 2 players out of Keane plus one of the underachieving Doyle, Long, Stokes, Murphy.
In a 4-4-2 our midfield is weak and so are our forwards.



I agree entirely. A proper football thinker can take stock of what we've got, see where we're strong and where we're weak and attempt a solution.

Anytime we've gone with a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 type formation it's been using players like Stephen Elliott out on the right. They key is to have good fast wide players (Duff & McGeady are ideal) flanking a genuine no. 9 preferably. Keane is more of a classic no. 10 so in my opinion getting goals from midfield will be important (isn't it always I suppose?). If our traditional 2 in midfield with two nippy wingers ain't solid or creative enough then maybe 3 would be.

The U21 game was really interesting. England and ourselves both played a 4-3-3 style. In my opinion our midfield was as functional and cohesive an Irish midfield as I've seen at any level since Keane was at his peak. However, what made the difference was that our wide men were Stokes and Clarke, each of whom prefers to play centrally, whereas England had Walcott and Lennon, both pace merchants, and Milner I think played further forward too.

[NeilMcD]

Thoughts return to job at hand

Ireland's Richard Dunne in action against Brazil's Luis Fabiano during Wednesday evening's match in Croke Park. The central defender has led the calls for a decision to be made on the new Republic of Ireland manager soon.
Ireland's Richard Dunne in action against Brazil's Luis Fabiano during Wednesday evening's match in Croke Park. The central defender has led the calls for a decision to be made on the new Republic of Ireland manager soon.
Photograph: The Irish Times

International news - Search for a manager: Emmet Malone assesses the merits of the two most likely candidates for the Ireland job.

With Wednesday night's game against Brazil out of the way, Don Givens returned yesterday to the task of finding the next Ireland manager. Though Billy Davies has apparently still to be interviewed, the three-man panel's remaining workload essentially consists of establishing whether Giovanni Trapattoni's interest is serious and, if it is, deciding whether to give the job to him ahead of Terry Venables.

What indications there have been suggest that the players' preference is for the Englishman, although the only real attempt to articulate their reasons, provided by Richard Dunne on Sunday evening, fell some way short of making a compelling case.

Having put behind him the years when he seemed hell bent on squandering his talent, Dunne has developed into one of the Premier League's best central defenders. Even he, however, would hardly argue that there isn't potential for further improvement. And so it was disappointing to note at the FAI awards his apparent lack of interest in working with Trapattoni, a centre back for more than a decade at Milan, where he won two leagues and two European Cups and was capped 17 times by Italy before going on to become one of the game's most accomplished club managers of all time, success built repeatedly on a highly effective defensive approach.

The Dubliner is entitled to his opinion and Venables, it seems certain, would bring the more enterprising brand of football, but the suggestion that because the new manager will have a limited number of opportunities to work with the players before the start of the World Cup campaign the Londoner should be appointed - as he could more easily communicate his ideas - is a still hard to take.

Steve Staunton, for one, might scratch his head at the idea that the players are desperate to spend as much time as possible with their international coach so as to maximise the team's potential.

In need of a strong showing during the latter part of the European Championship campaign, the Louthman managed to get just one established first-choice player - the ever-loyal Kevin Kilbane - on to the plane to the United States last summer.

A more productive end-of-season tour would hardly have gotten Ireland back on the road to qualification but had his team beaten Slovakia away and Cyprus at home, neither of which would have required a hugely improved performance, then the reality is that Staunton might have kept his job.

Dunne, like Damien Duff, Shay Given and just about every other player who has ever had a conversation about Venables with somebody who has played under him, says he has received positive reports about his coaching skills and man-management style.

Players, for the most part, like him while the media tend to be divided, his supporters consistently overstating his achievements down the years and his critics tending to dwell on his personality.

The reality is that if Venables is appointed by the FAI over the coming week it would be far from a calamity; but it would be a considerable disappointment now that Trapattoni appears to be a serious alternative.

Language barrier and management style aside, the critical difference between the pair is evident from a cursory glance at their CVs.

While the Italian has been successful in almost every club job he has held, winning nine league titles in four countries as well as a handful of major European trophies, his rival's reputation is based primarily upon a Spanish championship won 23 years ago with Barcelona, a solitary FA Cup victory while at Spurs, his larger-than-life persona and that rapport he enjoys with players.

His initial achievement at the Nou Camp should not be underestimated. Barcelona had not won the league in a decade when he arrived, and while he inherited a good side he changed personnel as well as tactics for the title-winning season.

Things then went steadily downhill thereafter, however, and having been totally outwitted by the Steaua Bucharest coach Emerich Jenei in the following year's European Cup, which the Romanians won on penalties, he struggled to achieve further success in Spain.

Eventually, he was sacked after his side lost home and away to Dundee United in the Uefa Cup almost a year later, few locals bemoaning his departure.

His tenure as England boss consisted mainly of home friendlies during the build-up to Euro 96. At the tournament, it is repeatedly pointed out by his backers, England were unlucky to lose their semi-final to Germany but then they tend to overlook the fact his side were desperately fortunate to get past Spain in the previous round.

Still, the team did play an admirable brand of football and the destruction of the Netherlands in the group stages was one of England's finer moments of recent times.

Since then there has been the fall-out from his disastrous business activities culminating in a seven-year ban from holding a company directorship after he admitted to a string of very serious charges brought by the British Department of Trade and Industry. There has also been one fairly successful spell at Middlesbrough and seriously ill-fated stints at Portsmouth, Crystal Palace and Leeds United.

There was also a brief return to international football with Australia, who looked set to qualify for the World Cup in 1998 before they surrendered a 2-0 lead at home to Iran in a manner that would be all too familiar to those who followed the Irish team's misfortunes over the past couple of years.

Appointing Trapattoni, on the other hand, carries with it none of those complications even if it would scarcely be a surefire thing. A glance at his famous Bayern Munich press conference on YouTube reminds one just how volatile he can be, and his four-year spell in charge of Italy was far from a triumph.

As with Venables, his best years might well be behind him too, but unlike the Englishman he has continued to stack up the trophies, winning the Portuguese title with Benfica and the Austrian one with his current club, Salzburg, in the last three seasons.

Despite his occasional tirades and the frustration of squad members who believe his teams are too defensive, he has generally been hugely popular with his players.

Clearly there are difficulties to be overcome if he is to succeed Staunton, but having waited this long to appoint someone and now found themselves in a position where getting somebody of his calibre is even a possibility, the FAI and their recruitment panel have been right to give the 68-year-old every chance to confirm his availability.

Even if he were obliged to see out the season at Salzburg he would, as things stand, be available for Ireland's next game, against Serbia in May, when he could quite easily ask the players to come in for longer than the standard few days.

Either way, the next manager looks set to be significantly better than the last one and his time at the helm promises to be interesting.

Perhaps, the most frustrating thing, though, with no suggestion that either man will be asked to groom his successor, is that we might well be put through the agony of yet another extended selection process once the team's World Cup campaign is out of the way in just a couple of years' time.
© 2008 The Irish Times

[jmurphyc]

Our new manager will really need to work on our set pieces. They're shocking at the moment. One thing that really started to concern me during the Brazil game is our lack of tall players, or even decent players in the air as we can be found out very easily in the air. At the moment the only two players we have who can be dangerous for us in the air are Doyle and Kilbane. This needs to be remedied in some way to give us a good chance in the qualifiers.