Next Senior Men's Team Manager - Runners and Riders

[third policeman]

It is interesting that Moyes is being suggested here - but a coach who is available and would probably want the job has been dismissed from the FAI's radar - Chris Hughton.

Let's look at their coaching record -

David Moyes - 61 years old and has coached 6 teams over 7 occasions over a 26 year period.
Chris Hughton - 65 years old - coached 5 club teams and one international team (and was caretaker on two occasions with a sixth club - Spurs) over 16 years.

- Moyes spent 4 years at Preston taking them from what is now League One to the Championship - he walked out on Preston in 2002 to take over Everton.
- Moyes spent 10 years at Everton - with the first few years up and down - flirting with relegation in between putting some good campaigns together. While at the club Moyes was facilitated with significant amounts of money to build his squad. His last couple of years were relatively successful and that led him to getting the job at Man Utd after Ferguson retired.
- His year at MU was a disaster - and some would argue that it was always going to be. Irrespective of that - Moyes proved pretty much incompetent when it came to managing the club. He was sacked after one season.
- In 2014 he was appointed manager of Real Sociedad - again poor job and he was sacked a day less than a year in charge.
- Next stop was Sunderland in the PL - Moyes succeeded in getting them relegated and was gone after one season.
- He then did a six month stint at West Ham where he succeeded in preventing relegation.
- Last job - Appointed manager of West Ham on New Year's Eve 2019. His four and a half seasons at West Ham were successful - including winning the Euro Conference League in 2023.

Overall - for Moyes - one hit with West Ham - one up and down with Everton that ended on an up and three disasters in between.

Chris Hughton
- Got Newcastle promoted to PL in 2010 and had them competing in the PL (with mostly free agents and loan signings) when Ashley sacked him so he could give his gambling buddy a job.
- After being linked with WBA, West Ham and Cardiff - took over at Birmingham. In his one season there, without any money, Hughton got Birmingham (a Championship club) to the group stages of the Europa League and the Championship play-offs
- Norwich approached Birmingham to talk to Hughton - in his first season Norwich finished 11th (again with little money to spend). In his second season Norwich were 5 points above relegation with five games to go - the Norwich board panicked, sacked Hughton, got one point from the last five games and were relegated.
- New years eve 2014 Hughton took over at Brighton with them in the relegation zone in the Championship. In his first full season Brighton finished 3rd, losing just five times and missing automatic promotion by 2 goals (difference) - Brighton lost in the play-offs. His second season Brighton won automatic promotion. Subsequently, with relatively little money to spend and a bottom three budget, Hughton kept Brighton in the PL for two seasons and laid the groundwork for their subsequent progress in the PL. He was sacked (unfairly in my view) after 4 1/2 years.
- In October 2020 Hughton took over at Forest with the club bottom of the Championship, having lost all their games. He kept the club up in his first season. The start of the following season was a disaster (mainly because of a large number of injuries and because the club wouldn't get the players Hughton wanted) and he was sacked in September.
- In Feb 2022 Hughton became Technical Director of the Ghana team, taking over as manager a year later. Hughton qualified Ghana for the AFCON and was sacked after Ghana didn't progress from the group stages (technically he wasn't sacked - his contract ended with elimination from AFCON).

Overall for Hughton - a hit with Newcastle - did well at Birmingham and Brighton - reasonably well at Norwich - pretty bad at Forest and not so good with Ghana either.

Now I think Moyes is a good manager - although I don't like his personality (he has been penalised for foul and abusive language towards match officials on several occasions - and suggested to a female reporter that she deserved a slap for the questions she was asking). He has been in the game for a long time and has managed to hang around in the upper reaches of club football. However, he was reputed to be on £5m a year at West Ham and likely will be offered something similar in the near future.

I also think Hughton is a good manager - and the guy is a gentleman who is respected throughout the game. Money has never been a motivating factor for Hughton and he was the lowest played manager in the PL when at Brighton. He is also very loyal to his employers (even when they didn't reciprocate) - and has always operated on a team first basis. He also has experience as manager of an international team. One other thing that Hughton has not had in his managerial career is a group of talented young players - particularly a player like Ferguson - and I, for one, would love to see what he could do with them.

For the record, I’d be happy with Hughton. A dose of basic competence would be a refreshing change. The sooner this pantomime ends the better.

[pineapple stu]

Hughton would be fine - and looking better as this charade goes on - but I think the near deification of him is tiresome. I don't see we're going to get anyone to get excited over, and Hughton would come in that category I think. (But we can still get better than Kenny of course)

But given we seem to have approached him in April (https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-extend-deadline-in-manager-search-with-process-clouded-in-uncertainty/a62899095.html) and nothing happened, what's changed now?

And surely Scotland - given their attacking performance across the three Euro games - would have missed that penalty anyway?!

[Jolly Red Giant]

But given we seem to have approached him in April (https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-extend-deadline-in-manager-search-with-process-clouded-in-uncertainty/a62899095.html) and nothing happened, what's changed now?

The FAI were reported to have dismissed Hughton as a candidate at the end of January.

I suspect that the April story was more to keep the FAI process afloat (Barry was also mentioned at the same time) - and if it is accurate Hughton could have adopted the attitude of 'you rejected me a couple of months ago and now you want to talk again' - I doubt this - its not in his character. It is more likely - if it did happen - that Hughton needed to recharge the batteries and deal with the personal stress from the Ghana job. If the FAI really wanted to get Hughton they would be beating down his door at this stage.

[Eirambler]

I have to say I feel very sorry for Scotland, its a clear peno and VAR did nothing

They should be in the last 16 and now they are going home

I don't believe for a second that if thats was Germany or Spain that VAR would react in the same manner

A bit late to this, but if both players are fouling each other, surely it can't be a penalty? Armstrong was caught from behind, but he was also pulling the number 6 off the front of the Hungarian's jersey at the same time (a hint of the old Gaelic football trick - pull the defender into you to win the free). If they're both fouling each other it can only be treated as a coming together, so no penalty. Can only assume VAR saw that so decided not to intervene.

Also, it's Scotland. They'd probably have missed the penalty and even if they had scored it they'd have conceded after that anyway. They're specialists in failure, you don't get to 12 major finals and go out in the first round 12 times without having some kind of particular weakness that causes that. Especially when quite a few of those tournaments have been reducing 24 teams to 16 i.e. nearly easier to go through than get knocked out.

[texidub]

Armstrong was caught from behind, but he was also pulling the number 6 off the front of the Hungarian's jersey at the same time (a hint of the old Gaelic football trick - pull the defender into you to win the free).

That's how I saw it too, a pair of them in it, BUT in the replays it's clear that Armstrong started fouling first,m so if anything it should have been a free out.

[Diggs246]

But the shirt grab was only as a result of the Hungarian colliding into Armstrong first.

[JR89]

For the record, I’d be happy with Hughton. A dose of basic competence would be a refreshing change. The sooner this pantomime ends the better.

At this stage I'll happily take Hughton if it means JRG will finally give over constantly banging on about how great he is.

[backstothewall]

I have to say I feel very sorry for Scotland, its a clear peno and VAR did nothing

They should be in the last 16 and now they are going home

I don't believe for a second that if thats was Germany or Spain that VAR would react in the same manner

It wasn't a clear penalty. It was a 'seen them given' type coming together. There wasn't enough there to overturn the on field decision

[EalingGreen]

It wasn't a clear penalty. It was a 'seen them given' type coming together. There wasn't enough there to overturn the on field decisionEven though I thought "Penalty!" watching it live, I agree with your reading above.

The corollary being that had the ref determined it was a penalty, there probably wouldn't have been sufficiently "clear and obvious" error in his decision for VAR to overturn it. It's how it goes, really.

Anyhow, even assuming Scotland had scored the penalty, it would still only have made it 1-1 and I don't think 2 points would have been enough to secure a third placed qualification spot for them when you look at their GD after the Germany hammering?

[osarusan]

Anyhow, even assuming Scotland had scored the penalty, it would still only have made it 1-1 and I don't think 2 points would have been enough to secure a third placed qualification spot for them when you look at their GD after the Germany hammering?

It would have put them 1-0 up, not 1-1.

You can't assume the rest of the game would have panned out as it did, especially how the Scots were caught on the counter in the 100th minute trying to nab a winner.

[EalingGreen]

It would have put them 1-0 up, not 1-1.

You can't assume the rest of the game would have panned out as it did, especially how the Scots were caught on the counter in the 100th minute trying to nab a winner.
Similarly, you cannot assume Scotland would have scored the penalty. Or that Hungary wouldn't have gone hell for leather upon going 1-0 down, against a mediocre and tiring Scots defence.

Anyhow, to get back onto managerial matters, some people at the FAW are pushing for Thierry Henry to succeed Rob Page (TH did his coaching badges with the FAW). Re the salary:
"The FAW would not be able to offer Henry as large a salary as some other national associations but, as he would be able to maintain his lucrative media and sponsorship work if he was Wales manager, the governing body believes its financial constraints would not necessarily prevent a deal from happening."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cl44y5ld6myo

I wonder might the FAI look to Hen... Oh, wait... :wink:

[John83]

I'm not sure he could, ahem, handle the pressure here.

[Stuttgart88]

List of people not acceptable for various reasons:

Sagnol - racist
Henry - cheat
Keane - complicit in genocide

ESG demands make recuitment a difficult job these days

[JR89]

I wouldn't give Henry the U21s job and it's got nothing to do with the handball because roles reversed Irish fans would have been doing cartwheels and signing ole ole as we went to SA.

[Crosby87]

Irish fans would have been doing cartwheels and signing ole ole as we went to SA.

Glad you included our fans who happen to be deaf!

[SkStu]

List of people not acceptable for various reasons:

Sagnol - racist
Henry - cheat
Keane - complicit in genocide

ESG demands make recuitment a difficult job these days

Though surely we've gone through enough manure in the last decade to allow us to take a chance on a naughty candidate now?

[Crosby87]

Why can't we just be like Austria.
What fun for their fans right now this second

[Crosby87]

Should hire Austrian assistant manager Peter Perchtold

[Jolly Red Giant]

At this stage I'll happily take Hughton if it means JRG will finally give over constantly banging on about how great he is.
And where have I claimed that Hughton is ‘great’ ?

I would support Carsley, Barry or even Barry-Murphy if the FAI were going young - but with the likes of Lennon and Sagnol etc. being touted I would take Hughton every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

What is currently happening has gone beyond embarrassing and incompetence and the FAI are still stumbling along with JOS now the only prospect on the list.

[Diggs246]

And where have I claimed that Hughton is ‘great’ ?

I would support Carsley, Barry or even Barry-Murphy if the FAI were going young - but with the likes of Lennon and Sagnol etc. being touted I would take Hughton every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

What is currently happening has gone beyond embarrassing and incompetence and the FAI are still stumbling along with JOS now the only prospect on the list.

"And where have I claimed that Hughton is ‘great"

Quote of the month
Thanks

[Fixer82]

I’ve been banging the Hughton drum for a while. I don’t understand why he’s been ruled out.

In another note, has anyone mentioned Big Sam?

[SkStu]

What about Malky Mackay? He ticks a number of the boxes for discussion here. 1) A bit sh!t and 2) racist, homophobic and sexist.

[seanfhear]

What about Malky Mackay? He ticks a number of the boxes for discussion here. 1) A bit sh!t and 2) racist, homophobic and sexist.
Has he any downsides ? ! (wink)

[EalingGreen]

Has he any downsides ? ! (wink)Yeah, he's Scottish. :wink:

P.S. Ian Baraclough's back on the market.

[Eirambler]

What about Malky Mackay? He ticks a number of the boxes for discussion here. 1) A bit sh!t and 2) racist, homophobic and sexist.

He's contracted to Hibs so we probably couldn't afford him!

[Eirambler]

I think Willy Sagnol is currently drifting well out of the FAI's price range as well.

[Diggs246]

I think Willy Sagnol is currently drifting well out of the FAI's price range as well.

That's the comedy of this situation now, he is now no longer ours to reject.

[Eirambler]

John O'Shea the big winner tonight from an Irish point of view.

[ltfc_2004]

I think its time for the FAI to draw up a job spec and place an open ad on its website and anywhere you advertise a managerial vacancy and let people apply and hold interviews if necessary. Its a 4 year old role realistically as with our hosting of Euro 2028 we should qualify for the tournament.

There are some good coaches out there. It feels like we are going around in circles and we need someone appointed by the 7th August before the EFL starts back.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistik

[Stuttgart88]

Miguel Delaney

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/georgia-euro-2024-kvaratshkelia-sagnol-spain-b2569760.html

Sagnol made a point of lauding the forward-thinking of the Georgian football federation, talking about these players come from investment in infrastructure 15 years ago.
What is more interesting, however, is that this just wasn’t the academy system copied from Spain or Germany. Georgia kept much more of their own cultural approach to football. This isn’t just the usual thing you hear in these discussions either. Georgian football is an outlier in many ways.
Just go onto the internet now and search for clips from Dinamo Tbilisi’s victory over Liverpool in the 1979-80 European Cup. The Georgian side overwhelmed Bob Paisley’s great side 3-0 with an expressiveness and innovation that would stand out even in today’s football. The second goal is a sensation. Centre-half Giorgi Chilaia suddenly surges forward 60 yards at full pelt, before slipping in Ramaz Shengelia to deftly lift the ball over Ray Clemence. There were echoes of that in what we saw against Portugal. West Ham United meanwhile still talk about how the same team took them apart on the way to lifting the Cup Winners’ Cup the following season.

The manner in which these football cultures were subsumed into the Soviet Union international side meant clubs like Dinamo Tbilisi served as quasi-national teams, but Georgia now have their own.

---

It should be acknowledged that these sort of instructive stories come around any time any lesser-resourced country breaks through, as we already saw so much with Iceland in 2016. They aren’t always lasting, and what probably happens is that the initial shift brings enough difference and enough of a charge to do something more. By the same token, that doesn’t necessarily mean there is anything that other countries can directly mimic. It's more about the real benefit of proper focused planning.
Sagnol duly told his players to go and play like “when you were 16, 17, 18”. They did that while complementing it with a mature defensive display. Goalkeeper Giorgi Mamardashvili’s saves and defender Giorgi Gvelesiani were superb.
Some of that is Sagnol’s keen tactical mind, but all of it is empowered by his motivation. You only have to read his words here. To hear him say them is even more convincing. Sagnol is a captivating and charismatic speaker, who has already marked himself as one of the managers of the tournament. You can see why his players follow him.
Ireland have been talking to him about their job, but he may already be getting to the point where he’s out of their reach. More lucrative job offers will surely follow this.

[Stuttgart88]

Poyet is better than a lot of the other names mentioned - and anything can happen in a one off game. The game degenerated into a scuffle and that benefitted Georgia despite Greece dominating possession. Georgia are likely to get destroyed in the finals. Bump:)

[Stuttgart88]

John O'Shea the big winner tonight from an Irish point of view.

Gus Poyet too, from a reputation salvaging point of view.

[EalingGreen]

Sagnol made a point of lauding the forward-thinking of the Georgian football federation, talking about these players come from investment in infrastructure 15 years ago.Offer him a 4 year contract, starting in 2039, with O'Shea as Interim - that should give everyone enough time.

[CSAD]

Miguel Delaney

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/georgia-euro-2024-kvaratshkelia-sagnol-spain-b2569760.html

Sagnol made a point of lauding the forward-thinking of the Georgian football federation, talking about these players come from investment in infrastructure 15 years ago.
What is more interesting, however, is that this just wasn’t the academy system copied from Spain or Germany. Georgia kept much more of their own cultural approach to football. This isn’t just the usual thing you hear in these discussions either. Georgian football is an outlier in many ways.
Just go onto the internet now and search for clips from Dinamo Tbilisi’s victory over Liverpool in the 1979-80 European Cup. The Georgian side overwhelmed Bob Paisley’s great side 3-0 with an expressiveness and innovation that would stand out even in today’s football. The second goal is a sensation. Centre-half Giorgi Chilaia suddenly surges forward 60 yards at full pelt, before slipping in Ramaz Shengelia to deftly lift the ball over Ray Clemence. There were echoes of that in what we saw against Portugal. West Ham United meanwhile still talk about how the same team took them apart on the way to lifting the Cup Winners’ Cup the following season.

The manner in which these football cultures were subsumed into the Soviet Union international side meant clubs like Dinamo Tbilisi served as quasi-national teams, but Georgia now have their own.

---

It should be acknowledged that these sort of instructive stories come around any time any lesser-resourced country breaks through, as we already saw so much with Iceland in 2016. They aren’t always lasting, and what probably happens is that the initial shift brings enough difference and enough of a charge to do something more. By the same token, that doesn’t necessarily mean there is anything that other countries can directly mimic. It's more about the real benefit of proper focused planning.
Sagnol duly told his players to go and play like “when you were 16, 17, 18”. They did that while complementing it with a mature defensive display. Goalkeeper Giorgi Mamardashvili’s saves and defender Giorgi Gvelesiani were superb.
Some of that is Sagnol’s keen tactical mind, but all of it is empowered by his motivation. You only have to read his words here. To hear him say them is even more convincing. Sagnol is a captivating and charismatic speaker, who has already marked himself as one of the managers of the tournament. You can see why his players follow him.
Ireland have been talking to him about their job, but he may already be getting to the point where he’s out of their reach. More lucrative job offers will surely follow this.


I still think people thinking Sagnol is suddenly out of reach is reactionary, in reality we are really basing that off one result. It must also be said going into the Euro's Georgia actually weren't looking that good, even by their own standards, and many were even question if Sagnol was even a good pick. I suspect we wouldnt be having this discussion now or even seeing articles like Miguel Delaney's if Portugal had won 2-0 last night for instance. In reality while last night was amazing for Georgian football I suspect many federations will still look at his whole reign in charge rather than just one results, albeit last night will have boosted his case massively.

Most football federations are reactionary and as naive as us football fans, what this result likely does is potential seal any contract discussion he has.

From an Irish perspective it may already be a signed that he's taking over and its just a case of waiting until Georgia's campaign ends before its confirmed...the reality is only those behind the scenes likely know and tbh unless there is a twist in the story I still think its him tbh.

[Olé Olé]

I still think people thinking Sagnol is suddenly out of reach is reactionary, in reality we are really basing that off one result. It must also be said going into the Euro's Georgia actually weren't looking that good, even by their own standards, and many were even question if Sagnol was even a good pick. I suspect we wouldnt be having this discussion now or even seeing articles like Miguel Delaney's if Portugal had won 2-0 last night for instance. In reality while last night was amazing for Georgian football I suspect many federations will still look at his whole reign in charge rather than just one results, albeit last night will have boosted his case massively.

Most football federations are reactionary and as naive as us football fans, what this result likely does is potential seal any contract discussion he has.

From an Irish perspective it may already be a signed that he's taking over and its just a case of waiting until Georgia's campaign ends before its confirmed...the reality is only those behind the scenes likely know and tbh unless there is a twist in the story I still think its him tbh.

Self-deprecation. The Ireland manager role should be attractive enough to candidates - at least up until they meet Marc Canham.

[brine3]

He's figured out Spain as well

[pineapple stu]

It's a great game so far

I mean, they're being battered here. But **** me, they're holding on gamely, and have the lead to cling to. This is a fun one.

I can't see our lot playing with this fluidity on the break, rare as they are. I'd love to see it though

I'd fancy this Georgian side against England

[seanfhear]

Gareth Southgate was almost available there !

Just by a minute or two ~ ~ Mind you Southgate has been terrible in this tournament so far !

[Diggs246]

I think it's worth noting that the Slovakian manager iwas also the manager of Napoli in qualifying etc
We shouldn't rule out a strong candidate if they are double jobing

[JR89]

I think it's worth noting that the Slovakian manager iwas also the manager of Napoli in qualifying etc
We shouldn't rule out a strong candidate if they are double jobing

He didn't become Napoli manager until February of this year a few months after Slovakia actually qualified.

And his contract with Napoli was only till today. He was a coach with them already so only stepped in for the remainder of the season. If they keep him on they'll likely want him to step away from Slovakia.

Fair play to him. His first job as a senior manager was Slovakia and qualified them for a tournament at the first go. Was an assistant manager for 14 years before getting the Slovakia job.

[Stuttgart88]

He's figured out Spain as wellI was going to reply with a trite response comparing the scoreline to our scoreline against them in Gdansk (4-1 vs. 4-0), but despite being only an own goal better than we managed and Spain wasting a hatful of chances in both games, there was still so much to admire in Georgia's performance and there was just nothing at all to admire in ours.

[pineapple stu]

I suppose even compare it with our three-goal defeat against Portugal last month and it was absolute chalk and cheese. And yeah, both ended in comfortable defeats, but the way Georgia played will surely bring good results against mid-range teams (like us for example) which we rarely manage these days.

[Real ale Madrid]

Fair play to Georgia but their performance in this tournament mirrors our trip to France in 2016. Scraped a draw in a group game, well beaten in another before beating a top ranked second string to qualify for the last 16 where both performed admirably without ever looking like they would cause a shock.

Sagnol is basically Martin O'Neill.

[Fixer82]

Fair play to Georgia but their performance in this tournament mirrors our trip to France in 2016. Scraped a draw in a group game, well beaten in another before beating a top ranked second string to qualify for the last 16 where both performed admirably without ever looking like they would cause a shock.

Sagnol is basically Martin O'Neill.

Well except we were still in with a shout against France in the dying minutes, whereas Georgia were well and truly on their way home halfway through the second half

[Diggs246]

He didn't become Napoli manager until February of this year a few months after Slovakia actually qualified.

And his contract with Napoli was only till today. He was a coach with them already so only stepped in for the remainder of the season. If they keep him on they'll likely want him to step away from Slovakia.

Fair play to him. His first job as a senior manager was Slovakia and qualified them for a tournament at the first go. Was an assistant manager for 14 years before getting the Slovakia job.

Thanks for clarifying
I still wouldn't rule out a good manager who is in a full time role. Obviously the club would need to be onboard

[elatedscum]

68 days till the next competitive game

[tetsujin1979]

I feel like we're on a slippery slope discussing whether or not someone is racist, and what is/isn't racist.
Can we move on from the Sagnol discussion, unless he's conclusively linked with the job again
Last warning
Next poster to mention the Georgian manager, either by name or indirectly, can have some time off to think about what you did

[SkStu]

Last warning
Next poster to mention the Georgian manager, either by name or indirectly, can have some time off to think about what you did

WTF Tets? Why cant we just talk about any candidate anytime? It seems that the only person this is bothering is you. And I'm not sure why... just let the fans speculate and debate. Thats why so many sign up for fan forums - and we had many here once upon a time. Taking that away completely and for no good reason is just going to completely kill off the forum.

[tetsujin1979]

Because the discussion on him ends the same way every time - if he's racist, if what he said was racist, and if supporting him as a candidate makes you a racist.
There's been more reported posts from this thread in the last month than the rest of the International forum combined, so clearly it's not just me.
It's all a moot point anyway, he's staying with Georgia
1808235154089075012

[Fixer82]

Last warning
Next poster to mention the Georgian manager, either by name or indirectly, can have some time off to think about what you did

Note to self: don’t discuss speculation on the potential next manager on the potential next manager thread