Next Senior Men's Team Manager - Runners and Riders

[seanfhear]

A Page boy or a Page turner ! !

Our reputation ( the FAI and all that goes with the FAI ) is so bad now that it probably puts off many candidates ~ And the money ain't good enough to take the chance !

[geysir]

I think Page's time had come to pass, the last impressions matter most. Wales lost twice to Poland in the NL and got relegated with just 1 point. They had a very poor Euro qual campaign by any standards plus they were handed the gift of playing both playoff games at home.

Though I was hoping Page would stay on for the NL B games in the autumn :)

[Murfinator]

MacAnthony is a clown but he's not wrong. There are several teams in the Euro's who we are better than on paper.


Is there or do we just overrate ourselves and are less familiar with some of the other teams players? Transfermarkt is relatively impartial for "on paper" values and considers the Irish team 29th in Europe and below Georgia and Albania.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/vereins-statistik/wertvollstenationalmannschaften/marktwertetop/plus/0?kontinent_id=6&yt0=Show

[pineapple stu]

I think Page's time had come to pass, the last impressions matter most. Wales lost twice to Poland in the NL and got relegated with just 1 point. They had a very poor Euro qual campaign by any standards plus they were handed the gift of playing both playoff games at home.

Though I was hoping Page would stay on for the NL B games in the autumn :)
Does that reflect on Page or on the passing of a golden generation that a small country can't readily replace?

The NL campaign - that showed Wales aren't at the level of Holland, Belgium and Poland. We knew that anyway. They were competitive throughout (five one-goal defeats, three of which were late winners), though I guess you could argue Kenny almost matched that against Serbia, Holland and France.

A very poor Euro qualification campaign - with four points off Croatia, semifinalists at the World Cup 12 months earlier? Harsh. I see an erratic campaign from a middling side with a middling manager.

Both playoff games were at home, sure, but we'd bite your hand off for 4-1 v Finland and 0-0 v Poland.

I don't think he's an exceptional manager, but I think he's about our level.

[CSAD]

Does that reflect on Page or on the passing of a golden generation that a small country can't readily replace?

The NL campaign - that showed Wales aren't at the level of Holland, Belgium and Poland. We knew that anyway. They were competitive throughout (five one-goal defeats, three of which were late winners), though I guess you could argue Kenny almost matched that against Serbia, Holland and France.

A very poor Euro qualification campaign - with four points off Croatia, semifinalists at the World Cup 12 months earlier? Harsh. I see an erratic campaign from a middling side with a middling manager.

Both playoff games were at home, sure, but we'd bite your hand off for 4-1 v Finland and 0-0 v Poland.

I don't think he's an exceptional manager, but I think he's about our level.

You are the best at talking up every national team...except Ireland ofcourse!

Page isnt even Stephen Kenny's level and Kenny wasnt our level so Page definetly isnt, he's a slightly better version of O'Shea and like O'Shea he isnt good enough for us and realistically is isnt good enough for Wales either, he benefitted from the good work that Giggs had done.

[pixiehead]

Is there or do we just overrate ourselves and are less familiar with some of the other teams players? Transfermarkt is relatively impartial for "on paper" values and considers the Irish team 29th in Europe and below Georgia and Albania.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/vereins-statistik/wertvollstenationalmannschaften/marktwertetop/plus/0?kontinent_id=6&yt0=Show
The value on that page is based on the most recent squad, and whilst this applies to all teams potentially, 4 of Ireland 6 highest valued players were not in that squad lowering it by up to 101 million (Ferguson 50, Collins 25, Bazunu 15, Omobamidele 11). The addition of those would put us on a par with Scotland, value wise, which we probably aren't.

[CSAD]

Is there or do we just overrate ourselves and are less familiar with some of the other teams players? Transfermarkt is relatively impartial for "on paper" values and considers the Irish team 29th in Europe and below Georgia and Albania.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/vereins-statistik/wertvollstenationalmannschaften/marktwertetop/plus/0?kontinent_id=6&yt0=Show

That's because the Irish squad listed is missing 115M euro worth of players who were unavailable. Add that on and it would value our squad at 227M currently put us 18th/19th in Europe which if anything is very good when you consider the age profile of the squad as pretty much all the players at the top of that value chart are under 23 so will only increase when they get to the mid 20s.

For context, when Stephen Kenny took over our squad was only valued at 120m.

[elatedscum]

Transfer values out a huge value on youth… or at least there’s a threshold over which your transfer value becomes negligible… So it’s not that squad quality equates to transfer value…

Take right back:

Seamus Coleman €500k
Matt Doherty €3m
Festy Ebosele €6m

But Festy might not be ready at all yet…

[CSAD]

Transfer values out a huge value on youth… or at least there’s a threshold over which your transfer value becomes negligible… So it’s not that squad quality equates to transfer value…

Take right back:

Seamus Coleman €500k
Matt Doherty €3m
Festy Ebosele €6m

But Festy might not be ready at all yet…

It's a good way in particular of comparing countries between where they are now and where they were 2-3 years ago for example.

If I had to be critical I would say that they are clearly biased towards certain countries (Serbia & Denmark are the main examples for me). What I notice in regards to these two countries is when a player from these countries gets signed for a big sum of money their transfermarkt value automatically increases to that sum (Krisitiansen for Denmark in 2023 and Pavlovic for Serbia in 2021 despite very little evidence to justify their increase in value) but when a player from another country moves for a big sum their value stays similar to what their value currently is and they have to prove their worth at their new club first.

For example Milan Skrinier for Slovakia, gets signed for Inter Milan for 34m euro when his transfermarkt value was 7m. If he was Serbian ,for instance, his transfermarkt value would automatically increase to 34m euro for just simply being able to tie his shoes before even playing a game for Inter whereas in Skrinier's case he had to play 4-5 months at Inter to get his transfermarkt value above 30m...and this is just one of MANY MANY examples that show transfermarkt have bias towards certain nations.

[Eirambler]

Yeah I'd take Sagnol based on that if we could get him. Certainly on the football side anyway, An unfortunate bobble away from winning the game there and probably qualifying Georgia to the knockouts. Just Portugal left to play now so they likely won't get out of the group but, a couple of standout players aside, they're a bang average team and he's got them organised and competitive at a major finals.

He'd be a good appointment so I'm fairly sure we can trust Marc Canham to fail to close out a deal.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Yeah I'd take Sagnol based on that if we could get him. Certainly on the football side anyway, An unfortunate bobble away from winning the game there and probably qualifying Georgia to the knockouts. Just Portugal left to play now so they likely won't get out of the group but, a couple of standout players aside, they're a bang average team and he's got them organised and competitive at a major finals.

He'd be a good appointment so I'm fairly sure we can trust Marc Canham to fail to close out a deal.

We didn’t hire the misogynist - why would we hire the racist ?

Sagnol has had ample opportunities to address his racist comments appropriately and has failed to do so. What message would it send to the senior and underage players from a minority ethnic background to appoint a racist as manager ?

[CraftyToePoke]

We didn’t hire the misogynist - why would we hire the racist ?

Sagnol has had ample opportunities to address his racist comments appropriately and has failed to do so. What message would it send to the senior and underage players from a minority ethnic background to appoint a racist as manager ?

Grand, until you consider we probably almost did. If there was an early April man, as Canham assured us, it points to Sagnol significantly more than any other candidate. I fully accept also that Canham might just have been spoofing heavily, that remains a possibility, however I think one got away around that time and I like Sagnol for it.

Fast forward to recent weeks from there, Dan McDonnell saw fit to raise it in his newsletter several times, particularly the race row angle, and to even ask Sagnol a question about the Ireland job at a Georgia presser before the Turkey game. Sagnol refused to rule it out, not the time to think about it he said, but he hasn't signed up again with Georgia and he remains the bookies favourite as of today.

[Razors left peg]

Sagnol is perfect, 2 moral victories so far. He's made for us...

Oh and he also plays the JOS wingback system so at least we'll have continuity there too

[The Fly]

You say no excuses but then proceed to make more excuses.

Supreme, there's enough in the side for any half decent manager to make something of if they are worth their salt. The fact we have a 2 CB's and a GK who's combined value is probably around 60M euro and a CF worth over 50-60M yet we play like a minnow is a f**king travesty, how is that even possible?

Yes Whelan did well that campaign to be fair... I miss those days, the days a manager was able to actually get the best out of the players at his disposal...something we've seemingly given up on nowadays, now we are happy to hire unqualified managers and plod along and get as little out of the players as possible....if the current players played any worse they'd just leave the field and allow the opposition shoot the ball into an empty net for 90 minutes...thats how bad a job our recent appointments have done.

Here's a wild theory, lets actually play to our players strengths...I know that's an alien term to the likes of Kenny and O'Shea but lets give it a go...we might actually get somewhere then.
Comparatively speaking our midfield is crap, so citing the possible transfer valuations of our goalkeeper, two centre backs and one centre forward with huge potential doesn't mean a great deal in that context.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Grand, until you consider we probably almost did. If there was an early April man, as Canham assured us, it points to Sagnol significantly more than any other candidate. I fully accept also that Canham might just have been spoofing heavily, that remains a possibility, however I think one got away around that time and I like Sagnol for it.

Fast forward to recent weeks from there, Dan McDonnell saw fit to raise it in his newsletter several times, particularly the race row angle, and to even ask Sagnol a question about the Ireland job at a Georgia presser before the Turkey game. Sagnol refused to rule it out, not the time to think about it he said, but he hasn't signed up again with Georgia and he remains the bookies favourite as of today.

My question was intended to be sarcastic. Lennon was a roll towards the job until public pressure forced the FAI to dump Lennon from the list.

I can see similar public pressure if Sagnol leaves the Georgia job after the Euros.

[Eirambler]

Not sure about that, out and out wife threatening would score a lot more poorly in the Irish media than racial stereotyping. There's almost nothing worse that Lennon could have done in terms of his Irish job hopes, there would have been certain people marching on Abbotstown if they'd hired him. I wouldn't foresee anything like the same level of kickback if Sagnol was brought in.

[CSAD]

Comparatively speaking our midfield is crap, so citing the possible transfer valuations of our goalkeeper, two centre backs and one centre forward with huge potential doesn't mean a great deal in that context.

It does when or defence is crap...if we have a 60m pound defence and still cant defend then I don't see how manger is capable of fixing other complex areas of the team such as midfield.

It would be nice instead of making excuses for the manager for doing such a terrible job with the team, we actually held them accountable for the terrible job they are doing, like I've said in another post the valuation of the squad would put us as a bottom half pot 2 team yet the managers we have has us playing like minnows... whatever way you look at it that's a travesty.

[The Fly]

It does when or defence is crap...if we have a 60m pound defence and still cant defend then I don't see how manger is capable of fixing other complex areas of the team such as midfield.

It would be nice instead of making excuses for the manager for doing such a terrible job with the team, we actually held them accountable for the terrible job they are doing, like I've said in another post the valuation of the squad would put us as a bottom half pot 2 team yet the managers we have has us playing like minnows... whatever way you look at it that's a travesty.
I'm not saying that a particular manager can't do a better job with the current Irish squad. I'm just pushing back against this notion that our prospects will be markedly different with a particular manager. That saying 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear' or 'you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****' applies here.

You're putting a lot of stock in these valuations you keep mentioning, but let's take a deeper look...

Goalkeepers: I agree that we have particularly good options here; options that most other nations our size (and bigger) would be envious of. I was gutted with Bazunu's injury and hopefully he'll return without any complications and can continue his progress. Kelleher has to move this summer and I genuinely think he's good enough for top 10 PL side.

Centre Backs: It's probably fair to say that Collins probably hasn't progressed as much as we'd hoped, but he still has plenty of time to do that. Jake O'Brien has just emerged this season and looks to have a lot about him, but he's still had just one season of fairly high level football behind him. Both are still young (23) and haven't played together yet but I think we can definitely say they're more than a solid proposition for the future.

Forwards(s): The depth we have up front is the best we've had in a long time, and with the talent that's emerging in the youth ranks I'd say it'll end up the best we've ever had. Evan Ferguson is obviously the stand out prospect and I'm of the firm belief that he'll go on to play at the highest level (if he can avoid injury and keep his head straight).

The Guardiola style predominates the game nowadays and as a result it's an era dominated by particular ball playing technical midfielders (and wide forwards). We have none of these. What we do have is, comparatively speaking, crap! We just have little to no quality here, regardless of what potential there is in other areas. The obvious option for any Irish manager on this front is to stack the midfield and hope.

In other words our expectations have to be reasonable, regardless of valuations.

[CSAD]

I'm not saying that a particular manager can't do a better job with the current Irish squad. I'm just pushing back against this notion that our prospects will be markedly different with a particular manager. That saying 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear' or 'you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****' applies here.

You're putting a lot of stock in these valuations you keep mentioning, but let's take a deeper look...

Goalkeepers: I agree that we have particularly good options here; options that most other nations our size (and bigger) would be envious of. I was gutted with Bazunu's injury and hopefully he'll return without any complications and can continue his progress. Kelleher has to move this summer and I genuinely think he's good enough for top 10 PL side.

Centre Backs: It's probably fair to say that Collins probably hasn't progressed as much as we'd hoped, but he still has plenty of time to do that. Jake O'Brien has just emerged the season and looks to have a lot about him, but he's still had just that one season of fairly high level football behind him. Both are still young (23) and haven't played together yet but I think we can definitely say they're more than a solid proposition for the future.

Forwards(s): The depth we have up front is the best we've had in a long time, and with the talent that's emerging in the youth ranks I'd say it'll end up the best we've ever had. Evan Ferguson is obviously the stand out prospect and I'm of the firm belief that he'll go on to play at the highest level (if he can avoid injury and keep his head straight).

The Guardiola style predominates the game nowadays and as a result it's an era dominated by particular ball playing technical midfielders (and wide forwards). We have none of these. What we do have is, comparatively speaking, crap! We just have little to no quality here, regardless of what potential there is in other areas. The obvious option for any Irish manager on this front is to stack the midfield and hope.

In other words our expectations have to be reasonable, regardless of valuations.


Our prospect literally couldn't play any worse than they currently are... the only possible way with a qualified manager is up. But the squad isnt a chicken or a sow's ear...its a squad valued at over 200m Euro which puts it in the top 20 teams in Europe...if you have a squad with that valuation and are not even competing to qualify for major tournaments then there is something seriously going wrong.

Ahhh so now the valuation doesn't matter...it matted a lot when the squad was only about 100m and barely in the top 30 in Europe though didnt it, but when it doesnt suit you're argument it's irrelevant. Like what was said earlier it one of the best ways of impartiality judging a squad and you can try twist reality all you want but these are the facts.

No offence but that Guardiola argument is garbage, it might be the case at the very top of the game but in the middle/bottom the game is the same it always has been. What we see in the game nowadays is tactics are more important than ever, this "hit n hope" nonsense of the Trap/O'Neill era is long gone and to be competitive you need a management team that are in line with the modern game or at least semi competent tactically....which we simply haven't had in forever really.

Our expectations are reasonable, simply can we be moderately competitive and not play like a minnow...it honestly shouldn't take THAT much for a manager to accomplish that. We were competitive for 2016,2018 & 2020 tournament and qualifiers with a worse squad so I dont see the how asking to be competitive is setting the bar too high.

[Eirambler]

In any case Sagnol's comments would be viewed differently to Lennon's...because they are different. The former's were suggestive, whilst the latter's were actually threatening.

Yes that's true as well. The ultimate point here being that, if Sagnol is hired, it's highly unlikely to create the sh!tstorm a few posters seem to think it could. He'd be asked, would apologise, clarify or say he was misquoted or whatever and everyone would just move on.

[geysir]

Does that reflect on Page or on the passing of a golden generation that a small country can't readily replace?

The NL campaign - that showed Wales aren't at the level of Holland, Belgium and Poland. We knew that anyway. They were competitive throughout (five one-goal defeats, three of which were late winners), though I guess you could argue Kenny almost matched that against Serbia, Holland and France.

A very poor Euro qualification campaign - with four points off Croatia, semifinalists at the World Cup 12 months earlier? Harsh. I see an erratic campaign from a middling side with a middling manager.

Both playoff games were at home, sure, but we'd bite your hand off for 4-1 v Finland and 0-0 v Poland.

I don't think he's an exceptional manager, but I think he's about our level.
Nah, you’re revising and without any real conviction. The evidence has already been presented and judgement delivered. Wales have been dismal since qual for Qatar, Page has been sacked and that’s the consensus opinion.

I trust that you mean he might be good enough for a team at our level and improve upon that
He was back room staff, took over a functioning set up, it gradually got worse until it fell apart spectacularly with no coming back. We don’t know if he’s good enough, he needs to do some other job, go into coach rehab, take stock of matters.

If we are going local (B&I), Carsley ticks enough boxes for me, other than that I haven’t got a clue who’s available, competent and affordable.

Considering the sky high cost of living, nordic coaches are remarkably affordable,
And most everybody would say Denmark is the most interesting of the 6
Jon Dahl Tomasson was available, legend as player, an experienced club/intl coach but he was picked up by Sweden NT.
Iceland got Age Hareide, still relevant and the real deal.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Yes that's true as well. The ultimate point here being that, if Sagnol is hired, it's highly unlikely to create the sh!tstorm a few posters seem to think it could. He'd be asked, would apologise, clarify or say he was misquoted or whatever and everyone would just move on.
There would be a sh*tstorm - in 2017 Sagnol was lined up to take over as manager of Ghana - shortly before he was due to be announced the media began questioning the appointment because of his racist comments. Sagnol was given an opportunity at a press conference to address the comments he made, apologise for them and give a commitment to oppose racism in the future - he failed to do any of these things and the resulting sh*tstorm forced the Ghanaian FA to withdraw the job offer. There is zero evidence that he would do anything different at an FAI press conference.

Sagnol is manager of a country that is known for widespread endemic racism - and there is not a single black player in their Euro squad. Now the positive thing is that there are currently mass protests in Georgia (some involving members of their Euro squad) against the 'foreign influence' Bill going through the Georgian parliament.

However - Sagnol getting the Ireland job would mean that a racist would be managing a squad that currently has 7-8 black players involved and the same in the U-21s. What message would it send to the black players in the Irish squad if the FAI appointed a racist as manager?

Irish society has seen an upsurge of racism, actively promoted by far-right and fascist elements (with their 'single black men of military age' etc) - you can be sure that if there is a hint of a racist like Sagnol getting the job there will be pushback against it.

[tetsujin1979]

Off topic posts removed. If you want to continue the discussion, use the current affairs forum

[EalingGreen]

The evidence has already been presented and judgement delivered. Wales have been dismal since qual for Qatar, Page has been sacked and that’s the consensus opinion.Interesting summary of Page's time in the Wales job here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cprr898dnz0o

My own view is that he was probably as good as any Wales were going to get for the salary, only two things did for him:
1. Losing Bale and Ramsey when he did, a decisive factor in Coleman's "successes" previously;
2. Losing Mooney's confidence, then the fans'.

[pineapple stu]

Wales have been dismal since qual for Qatar
Despite taking four points off the World Cup semi-finalists and coming within a sudden-death penalty shoot-out of reaching the Euros?

There's a suggestion in the BBC article there that the June friendlies (with an experimental team) played a decent part in him being sacked - and to be honest any FA that judges things on June friendlies needs their heads examined.

I'm sure he had his flaws, but dismal? Nah, that's not "dismal" for me; sorry.


Sagnol is manager of a country that is known for widespread endemic racism - and there is not a single black player in their Euro squad.
**** me - there's not a single black player in the Georgia squad, said as if this is some sort of Sagnol conspiracy! Have you ever been to Georgia?

People find the most insane things to get offended over.

[CraftyToePoke]

**** me - there's not a single black player in the Georgia squad, said as if this is some sort of Sagnol conspiracy! Have you ever been to Georgia?

People find the most insane things to get offended over.

I understood that post as meaning thats the only demographic type country he could get employment in.

He sure didn't work as a full time manager anywhere else after the Bordeaux incident. Not for years. Until Georgia threw him a bone.

Now why would a coach as clearly capable as he is, be unemployed for almost half a decade in his coaching prime I wonder.

[Jolly Red Giant]

**** me - there's not a single black player in the Georgia squad, said as if this is some sort of Sagnol conspiracy! Have you ever been to Georgia?

People find the most insane things to get offended over.
People read what they want to read into comments - to clarify for you - Georgia is a country with endemic racism with widespread discrimination against ethnic minorities. To the best of my knowledge there isn't a single player from an ethnic minority in the squad (apart from possibly Tsitaishvili - who has some Ukrainian ancestry - Ukrainians are not a recognised ethnic minority in Georgia). Guram Kasha was subjected to widespread abuse when he came out in support of LGBTQ+ rights a number of years ago.

In terms of Sagnol's appointment - his racism wasn't an issue for a FA that is part and parcel of the endemic racism in Georgia and given the level of racism in Georgian football there was little issue among the broader support base either.

I get offended by racism and I fight it wherever I see it. Sagnol is a racist and I will be shouting loudly about it as soon as there is a hint the FAI are considering hiring him (assuming he leaves his current job).

[The Fly]

Our prospect literally couldn't play any worse than they currently are... the only possible way with a qualified manager is up. But the squad isnt a chicken or a sow's ear...its a squad valued at over 200m Euro which puts it in the top 20 teams in Europe...if you have a squad with that valuation and are not even competing to qualify for major tournaments then there is something seriously going wrong.
What do the valuations of particular players mean if you have no midfield!


Ahhh so now the valuation doesn't matter...it matted a lot when the squad was only about 100m and barely in the top 30 in Europe though didnt it, but when it doesnt suit you're argument it's irrelevant. Like what was said earlier it one of the best ways of impartiality judging a squad and you can try twist reality all you want but these are the facts.
I said that citing the valuations of those particular players: Ferguson, Collins, O'Brien and Kelleher, and then drawing a correlation between those figures and the prospects of the national side is a foolish thing to do because we have no quality whatsoever in midfield. Midfield's the most important part of the pitch.

Those valuations are also based off potential, and contain a Premier League tax (except for O'Brien). Kelleher isn't a No.1 yet, O'Brien has just emerged this season and Ferguson is still only 19. In other words, some perspective is needed here.


No offence but that Guardiola argument is garbage, it might be the case at the very top of the game but in the middle/bottom the game is the same it always has been.
I disagree. You see it, or at least the attempt at it, throughout the game now.


What we see in the game nowadays is tactics are more important than ever, this "hit n hope" nonsense of the Trap/O'Neill era is long gone and to be competitive you need a management team that are in line with the modern game or at least semi competent tactically....which we simply haven't had in forever really.
I'm not advocating for 'hit and hope' nonsense.


Our expectations are reasonable, simply can we be moderately competitive and not play like a minnow...it honestly shouldn't take THAT much for a manager to accomplish that. We were competitive for 2016,2018 & 2020 tournament and qualifiers with a worse squad so I dont see the how asking to be competitive is setting the bar too high.
I'd hope for any manager to make us moderately competitive, but as for substantial changes in our fortunes I just don't see how that's accomplished with, you guessed it, our midfield. C'est la vie!

[The Fly]

People read what they want to read into comments - to clarify for you - Georgia is a country with endemic racism with widespread discrimination against ethnic minorities. To the best of my knowledge there isn't a single player from an ethnic minority in the squad (apart from possibly Tsitaishvili - who has some Ukrainian ancestry - Ukrainians are not a recognised ethnic minority in Georgia). Guram Kasha was subjected to widespread abuse when he came out in support of LGBTQ+ rights a number of years ago.

In terms of Sagnol's appointment - his racism wasn't an issue for a FA that is part and parcel of the endemic racism in Georgia and given the level of racism in Georgian football there was little issue among the broader support base either.

I get offended by racism and I fight it wherever I see it. Sagnol is a racist and I will be shouting loudly about it as soon as there is a hint the FAI are considering hiring him (assuming he leaves his current job).
Re: the bold it's more correct to say that you believe he's a racist. There isn't definitive proof that he is, rather it's a belief, and racism itself exists on a spectrum or continuum. I'm also generally uncomfortable with the lack of redemption that seems more prevalent in society nowadays, but that's very much a side issue here.

I don't think there's a chance of Sagnol getting the job in any case.

[The Fly]

Off topic posts removed. If you want to continue the discussion, use the current affairs forum
The current affairs section is pretty much dead. You may as well tell people to discuss it privately.

[tetsujin1979]

The current affairs section is pretty much dead. You may as well tell people to discuss it privately.
It'll only stay dead if you don't start a discussion there

[osarusan]

Maybe Steve Clarke will be available soon.

[seanfhear]

Maybe Steve Clarke will be available soon.
I'd take him ~ ~ He could do with some Irish Crack in him mind !

[Fixer82]

Just give it to Chris Hughton already!

[Eirambler]

Clarke is definitely underappreciated in Scotland. They didn't get out of their group but to make a team with a keeper and back line of Gunn, Ralston, Hendry, Hanley and McKenna remotely competitive at a tournament finals is actually quite an achievement.

He's been papering over the cracks in that Scottish defence as well as up front for five years now, but they've the oldest squad in the tournament so maybe it's time for him to move on and leave their somewhat deluded fans to their misery.

[seanfhear]

In my opinion that was a penalty for Scotland and that would have put a different complexion on how that game went last night.

[elatedscum]

In my opinion that was a penalty for Scotland and that would have put a different complexion on how that game went last night.

For someone who spent two years talking about lucky generals, you’ve gone a full 180 degrees

[seanfhear]

For someone who spent two years talking about lucky generals, you’ve gone a full 180 degrees
Ya got me ~ ~ Ruling Clarke out ~ ~ He is too miserable anyway and unlucky to boot !

[third policeman]

Ya got me ~ ~ Ruling Clarke out ~ ~ He is too miserable anyway and unlucky to boot !

Is Moyes a realistic option? Probably get better offers with better pay, but might just be tempted by a less stressful spell as an international manager?

[seanfhear]

Is Moyes a realistic option? Probably get better offers with better pay, but might just be tempted by a less stressful spell as an international manager?
You'd doubt that we have the kind of money to get Moyes ~ He certainly would be a very good candidate if he was interested in international management and in managing us.

[pineapple stu]

I understood that post as meaning thats the only demographic type country he could get employment in.
Possibly so, yeah (JRG's intention rather than the actual argument).

The argument itself seems a bit like filling a vacuum with no real basis though. (Why didn't he have any jobs in the meantime? It must be because he's really racist! But is he the first manager ever with a CV gap?) I'm uncomfortable with that sort of stuff. I'll echo The Fly's excellent post in that regard.

Tbh, I'm also uncomfortable with JRG's comments on Nkencho though - I think they tell a lot about the poster, so I'm happy to back away from any further discussion there. I'm not sure JRG's anger/attitude in all this is helpful.


Is Moyes a realistic option? Probably get better offers with better pay, but might just be tempted by a less stressful spell as an international manager?
Moyes maybe more likely to take the Scotland job if Clarke feels he's taken it as far as he can?

Think he's contracted for the next campaign though, so that mayn't be an option for him. Think it'd be a stretch for us to appoint him though

[tetsujin1979]

I feel like we're on a slippery slope discussing whether or not someone is racist, and what is/isn't racist.
Can we move on from the Sagnol discussion, unless he's conclusively linked with the job again

[Diggs246]

I have to say I feel very sorry for Scotland, its a clear peno and VAR did nothing

They should be in the last 16 and now they are going home

I don't believe for a second that if thats was Germany or Spain that VAR would react in the same manner

[seanfhear]

I have to say I feel very sorry for Scotland, its a clear peno and VAR did nothing

They should be in the last 16 and now they are going home

I don't believe for a second that if thats was Germany or Spain that VAR would react in the same manner
Definite penalty ~ ~ How can the ' best " referees with Var not give that ? !

Is it still, Brits Out, with UEFA ? !

[NeverFeltBetter]

I thought Armstrong was offside when the ball was played to him, but it doesn't seem like the TV replays wanted to clear that up. Regardless, it doesn't seem like VAR checked for anything.

[Diggs246]

Definite penalty ~ ~ How can the ' best " referees with Var not give that ? !

Is it still, Brits Out, with UEFA ? !
Even the linesman. What's his thought process?

[EalingGreen]

Is Moyes a realistic option? Probably get better offers with better pay, but might just be tempted by a less stressful spell as an international manager?
If he should fancy international football, then surely Scotland would be much more likely?

And let's face it, Clarke must be on very shaky ground right now, so we could see a vacancy soon enough.

[JR89]

Is Moyes a realistic option? Probably get better offers with better pay, but might just be tempted by a less stressful spell as an international manager?

Not even in our dreams would Moyes be a realistic option. Doubt we'd even get someone like Clarke if Scotland sacked him this summer.

[Stuttgart88]

Is it still, Brits Out, with UEFA ? !I hope so.

[Jolly Red Giant]

It is interesting that Moyes is being suggested here - but a coach who is available and would probably want the job has been dismissed from the FAI's radar - Chris Hughton.

Let's look at their coaching record -

David Moyes - 61 years old and has coached 6 teams over 7 occasions over a 26 year period.
Chris Hughton - 65 years old - coached 5 club teams and one international team (and was caretaker on two occasions with a sixth club - Spurs) over 16 years.

- Moyes spent 4 years at Preston taking them from what is now League One to the Championship - he walked out on Preston in 2002 to take over Everton.
- Moyes spent 10 years at Everton - with the first few years up and down - flirting with relegation in between putting some good campaigns together. While at the club Moyes was facilitated with significant amounts of money to build his squad. His last couple of years were relatively successful and that led him to getting the job at Man Utd after Ferguson retired.
- His year at MU was a disaster - and some would argue that it was always going to be. Irrespective of that - Moyes proved pretty much incompetent when it came to managing the club. He was sacked after one season.
- In 2014 he was appointed manager of Real Sociedad - again poor job and he was sacked a day less than a year in charge.
- Next stop was Sunderland in the PL - Moyes succeeded in getting them relegated and was gone after one season.
- He then did a six month stint at West Ham where he succeeded in preventing relegation.
- Last job - Appointed manager of West Ham on New Year's Eve 2019. His four and a half seasons at West Ham were successful - including winning the Euro Conference League in 2023.

Overall - for Moyes - one hit with West Ham - one up and down with Everton that ended on an up and three disasters in between.

Chris Hughton
- Got Newcastle promoted to PL in 2010 and had them competing in the PL (with mostly free agents and loan signings) when Ashley sacked him so he could give his gambling buddy a job.
- After being linked with WBA, West Ham and Cardiff - took over at Birmingham. In his one season there, without any money, Hughton got Birmingham (a Championship club) to the group stages of the Europa League and the Championship play-offs
- Norwich approached Birmingham to talk to Hughton - in his first season Norwich finished 11th (again with little money to spend). In his second season Norwich were 5 points above relegation with five games to go - the Norwich board panicked, sacked Hughton, got one point from the last five games and were relegated.
- New years eve 2014 Hughton took over at Brighton with them in the relegation zone in the Championship. In his first full season Brighton finished 3rd, losing just five times and missing automatic promotion by 2 goals (difference) - Brighton lost in the play-offs. His second season Brighton won automatic promotion. Subsequently, with relatively little money to spend and a bottom three budget, Hughton kept Brighton in the PL for two seasons and laid the groundwork for their subsequent progress in the PL. He was sacked (unfairly in my view) after 4 1/2 years.
- In October 2020 Hughton took over at Forest with the club bottom of the Championship, having lost all their games. He kept the club up in his first season. The start of the following season was a disaster (mainly because of a large number of injuries and because the club wouldn't get the players Hughton wanted) and he was sacked in September.
- In Feb 2022 Hughton became Technical Director of the Ghana team, taking over as manager a year later. Hughton qualified Ghana for the AFCON and was sacked after Ghana didn't progress from the group stages (technically he wasn't sacked - his contract ended with elimination from AFCON).

Overall for Hughton - a hit with Newcastle - did well at Birmingham and Brighton - reasonably well at Norwich - pretty bad at Forest and not so good with Ghana either.

Now I think Moyes is a good manager - although I don't like his personality (he has been penalised for foul and abusive language towards match officials on several occasions - and suggested to a female reporter that she deserved a slap for the questions she was asking). He has been in the game for a long time and has managed to hang around in the upper reaches of club football. However, he was reputed to be on £5m a year at West Ham and likely will be offered something similar in the near future.

I also think Hughton is a good manager - and the guy is a gentleman who is respected throughout the game. Money has never been a motivating factor for Hughton and he was the lowest played manager in the PL when at Brighton. He is also very loyal to his employers (even when they didn't reciprocate) - and has always operated on a team first basis. He also has experience as manager of an international team. One other thing that Hughton has not had in his managerial career is a group of talented young players - particularly a player like Ferguson - and I, for one, would love to see what he could do with them.