Next Senior Men's Team Manager - Runners and Riders

[Razors left peg]

There is a big difference between what Atkinson said and what Sagnol said but i get the point you are making about the merits of words of defense. Rather than hang on the comparison to young Scandinavian players as an indicator as to whether he is or is not racist, it matters that his comments were referring to young African players and gives credence to his later clarifications. If he had initially said "black players", then game on as far as i am concerned and hard to worm your way out of that kind of statement.

On another note, that last sentence - you are basically accusing posters here of being racist too. That's not fair at all, Razor.

edit: Razor's comment was deleted

I deleted the last post Stu because I wrote in anger, but I do think there is a hint of truth to it with some.

[LurcherLover]

Looking over the thread, no one is defending racism and to regard anyone as racist or defending it for merely pointing out what many black players close to Sagnol have said, is ridiculous. Saying that anyone defending it is just wrong is ridiculous. Also, to try and label someone as racist if they say there is a stereotypical African player is ridiculous. Is there a stereotypical south American player? If I think there is, am I racist? Are those black players who accepted his apology for what it is racist? It's almost humorous how someone who read an article yesterday about something that happened 10yrs ago, can be so righteous on the matter, to a point were they are labelling someone who disagrees with them the same term. Honest question, if an African friend of Sagnol who played with him and is still currently very close to him, to a point were their families regularly holiday together, told you he wasn't racist, would you disagree with him and tell him he's wrong? Because.......

[Razors left peg]

RTE news : O'Shea content to 'wait and see' what happens next

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/0325/1439851-oshea-content-to-wait-and-see-what-happens-next/

O'Shea saying let's see what happens when asked about his future. If he knew he absolutely wouldn't be getting the job wouldn't he just come out and say something like " I'd love to do this full time in future, but the FAI have made it clear they have their man for April".

[backstothewall]

RTE news : O'Shea content to 'wait and see' what happens next

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/0325/1439851-oshea-content-to-wait-and-see-what-happens-next/

O'Shea saying let's see what happens when asked about his future. If he knew he absolutely wouldn't be getting the job wouldn't he just come out and say something like " I'd love to do this full time in future, but the FAI have made it clear they have their man for April".

Interestingly those comments wouldn't preclude him being involved in the new regime as an assistant or coach.

[Razors left peg]

Interestingly those comments wouldn't preclude him being involved in the new regime as an assistant or coach.

It's mental that we are this long into it and we haven't got a clue what's going on. It's either gonna be the greatest reveal ever or the biggest let down

[JR89]

Because his wait and see had nothing to do with the Ireland and was in response to what he'll be doing after this stint as caretaker.

They asked him what's next after Tuesday and said he'll be seeing his family. Then they asked him "and in football" which he said let's wait and see.

Since he walked away from Birmingham to get into management rather than be a coach then I doubt he's got nothing lined job wise and will be waiting to see what offers come his way.

[Razors left peg]

Because his wait and see had nothing to do with the Ireland and was in response to what he'll be doing after this stint as caretaker.

They asked him what's next after Tuesday and said he'll be seeing his family. Then they asked him "and in football" which he said let's wait and see.

Since he walked away from Birmingham to get into management rather than be a coach then I doubt he's got nothing lined job wise and will be waiting to see what offers come his way.

He was asked in the post match if he wants the job and he said ask me after Tuesday. Seems he thinks he still has a bit of a chance, which I absolutely didn't think 3 weeks ago when he was appointed

[JR89]

He was asked in the post match if he wants the job and he said ask me after Tuesday. Seems he thinks he still has a bit of a chance, which I absolutely didn't think 3 weeks ago when he was appointed

The perfect answer really. Short and sweet without any unnecessary waffling on like Kenny would. Even if he actually knew that X manager has signed a contract to start in April give them a short and nothing answer. Treat them like mushrooms.

[Razors left peg]

The perfect answer really. Short and sweet without any unnecessary waffling on like Kenny would. Even if he actually knew that X manager has signed a contract to start in April give them a short and nothing answer. Treat them like mushrooms.

We've been treated like mushrooms since November :)

[Jolly Red Giant]

The whole racism everywhere is tiresome. Screeching and wailing to get offended on behalf of other people to show how righteous they are. Sagnol explained himself. I can't see any issue with him becoming Ireland manager. I think it'll be Poyet though.
This is nonsense - and it is a justification that allows racist poison to fester in society.

And this is for others defending Sagnol as well

Sagnol's 'explanation' was an attempt to justify racist comments.

As I pointed out before - if Sagnol was not a racist he would have held up his hand, accepted that his comments were racist and deeply offensive, apologised for his comments, and then would have advocated for anti-racism campaigns. He did not do this, even after his own former team mates condemned his comments - and that is most telling. Even when he had an opportunity to get the Ghana coaching job he could not bring himself to address the issue.

He has failed over and over again to withdraw his comments and still has not apologised in any way, shape of form. It would be an utter disgrace if the FAI appointed Sagnol and it should not happen.

[SkStu]

We've been treated like mushrooms since November :)

Though at times its been fun, guys.

[JR89]

This is nonsense - and it is a justification that allows racist poison to fester in society.

Yeah I'd save your breath with weldoninhio and just take a look at his Twitter page before having a talk about racism.

[seanfhear]

We've been treated like mushrooms since November :)Are we fully grown yet ? !

[Razors left peg]

Are we fully grown yet ? !

No but lots are full of shi1t!!

[sbgawa]

I'll stick with what the African players who were playing for him said at the tike ten years ago. I think they probably had a bit more to go on in terms of forming an opinion. Like I said earlier I've no idea if he's a racist or not but based on his quote his clarification and the reaction of his players I'm inclined towards him not being one more so than he is. The point I was trying to make earlier is it could be either way and anyone who is 100% convinced he is a ra ist based on the evidence has their mind made up before they even start to evaluate things

[sbgawa]

I'd almost settle for anyone as manager at this point. They can hardly be worse then Kenny and with the young talent coming through we just need someone competent for things to improve

[elatedscum]

I'll stick with what the African players who were playing for him said at the tike ten years ago. I think they probably had a bit more to go on in terms of forming an opinion. Like I said earlier I've no idea if he's a racist or not but based on his quote his clarification and the reaction of his players I'm inclined towards him not being one more so than he is. The point I was trying to make earlier is it could be either way and anyone who is 100% convinced he is a ra ist based on the evidence has their mind made up before they even start to evaluate things

i think it's difficult position for a player playing for him to be in. even if they think he's a racist, they're probably better off not saying it and alienating themselves from the people picking the team for as long as he's the manager

[Jolly Red Giant]

i think it's difficult position for a player playing for him to be in. even if they think he's a racist, they're probably better off not saying it and alienating themselves from the people picking the team for as long as he's the manager
That is exactly the point - these players are under contract and the racist is the person picking the team. They are facing a double whammy when it comes to the power and control Sagnol and the club had over them.


The point I was trying to make earlier is it could be either way and anyone who is 100% convinced he is a ra ist based on the evidence has their mind made up before they even start to evaluate things
This is not about being 'convinced' that Sagnol is a racist - his own words demonstrate his outlook. His so-called 'apology' was him claiming that it was 'lack of clarity' and 'imperfect semantics' - that is not a f*cking apology and in no way could it be described as such.

Sagnol has never apologised - despite numerous opportunities - particularly when he was favourite for the Ghana job.

[tetsujin1979]

Can we keep the discussion on the next Ireland managers and move the what is and isn't racist discuss to current affairs

[Eirambler]

Lack of answers leaves door open for John O’Shea to become permanent Ireland manager - Irish Times

https://archive.is/oJrM3

Interested to get a view on this. If the next permanent manager ended up being John O'Shea, where would that leave the standing of Hill and Canham do people think? Would their positions be completely untenable, would they be heavily bruised but able to carry on, or would they walk away from the car crash completely unharmed despite having to walk back pretty much every word Canham said in his press conference last month?

[Stuttgart88]

I just read that over my morning coffee.

Seems like it's going to be O'Shea. Dara O'Shea says the players want an Irishman, Alex Ferguson tips him for the job... The article smacks of one of those planted pieces in the media designed to gauge opinion, and manipulate it favourably. The FAI learnt pretty quickly from flying some kites that Lennon and Coleman wouldn't be popular choices.

I joked with some pals last week that my spirits are so broken by this saga that I just want O'Shea appointed now. The reply was, yeah if these games go well for him...

But no, I meant regardless of how well the games go for him!

Eamonn Sweeney ran a piece at the weekend saying Hill and Canham have shown themselves to be incompetent. You've got to bring Bonner into that criticism too. I'd say it's probably fair especially if Carsley is to be taken at his word that the only discussion with them was an informal one last November. I found that hard to believe. What have they been doing in the meantime?

Let's see what they say about it . If it's O'Shea I'd like the press to forensically probe into every step of the "process".

[zero]

Lack of answers leaves door open for John O’Shea to become permanent Ireland manager - Irish Times

https://archive.is/oJrM3

Interested to get a view on this. If the next permanent manager ended up being John O'Shea, where would that leave the standing of Hill and Canham do people think? Would their positions be completely untenable, would they be heavily bruised but able to carry on, or would they walk away from the car crash completely unharmed despite having to walk back pretty much every word Canham said in his press conference last month?

They'd be fine I reckon. We - well I suppose I should speak for myself - can be guilty of thinking the wider public are as interseted in this saga as the hardcore forum fans whereas loads of them wouldn't have followed it at all. They'll hear John O'Shea, know we did fine in these friendlies (all going ok this evening) and think yeah, that makes sense. He has a fine store of goodwill.

I would be a bit annoyed if it ends up being him and we pay him £550k py or whatever the figure that was cited was. JOSH has zero managerial experience and was on the payroll at what can only one assume is fraction of that these past few years. Hiring him would be a punt, and while you could perhaps argue that is the case with any managerial hire, it doesn't sit right with me that he'd get whatever the #1 target (Carsley presumably) would have.

[Eirambler]

I just don't see how it would be anything other than complete humiliation for Canham. He ruled O'Shea out last month, surely he can't turn around now and hire him and retain any credibility whatsoever in his own position.

John O'Shea isn't a manager at this point in that he has no experience whatsoever of being the main man. If he gets it he's basically a cover for Brian Kerr 2.0. Kerr will be running the show behind the scenes and O'Shea will do front of house stuff, press conferences etc. but it will be Kerr's team really.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Appointing O'Shea would demonstrate utter incompetence on behalf of Hill and Canham (and Bonnar).

The stuff about an Irishman is nonsense - Alex Ferguson would back any Irish player at Man U with the exception of Roy Keane (it adds to his legacy) - and the one qualified Irishman who has a long and relatively successful track record in club and international management (by some considerable distance) was dismissed out of hand at the start of this whole process - Chris Hughton.

John O'Shea is a young coach with little experience - and his record as a coach could best be described as 'poor' - a poor job at Stoke - a poor job under Kenny - and an awful job under Rooney. O'Shea isn't even best of the young coaches - Barry-Murphy and Stephen Reid are both well ahead of him and more highly regarded.

[Stuttgart88]

They'd be fine I reckon. We - well I suppose I should speak for myself - can be guilty of thinking the wider public are as interseted in this saga as the hardcore forum fans whereas loads of them wouldn't have followed it at all. They'll hear John O'Shea, know we did fine in these friendlies (all going ok this evening) and think yeah, that makes sense. He has a fine store of goodwill.

I would be a bit annoyed if it ends up being him and we pay him £550k py or whatever the figure that was cited was. JOSH has zero managerial experience and was on the payroll at what can only one assume is fraction of that these past few years. Hiring him would be a punt, and while you could perhaps argue that is the case with any managerial hire, it doesn't sit right with me that he'd get whatever the #1 target (Carsley presumably) would have.I agree wrt the full salary package. But overall i'd be happy with him. I'm actually quite excited by Paddy McCarthy's involvement - he's one to watch I think. And I have a feeling Whelan has something to offer too. I'm not convinced by Eirambler's reasoning about this essentially being a Kerr team fronted by JOS. I think that's understating the strength of character of the younger lads.

If the salary package is sensible I'd be happy to go with O'Shea and co.

Of the others only Anthony Barry really grabs me and he'd be speculative too. And if he was successful we'd have to concede that maybe BOOMSHAKALAKA had a point :)

[Stuttgart88]

John O'Shea is a young coach with little experience - and his record as a coach could best be described as 'poor' - a poor job at Stoke - a poor job under Kenny - and an awful job under Rooney. O'Shea isn't even best of the young coaches - Barry-Murphy and Stephen Reid are both well ahead of him and more highly regarded.BBM would be interesting alright.

I think you need a bit of luck with a managerial appointment: you need the right man for the right job at the right time. I can see a credible picture where JOS is currently a better fit for this job than for any of the club jobs he has been involved in.

[backstothewall]

Giving the job to O'Shea on the basis of one game would be utterly ridiculous.

We were more organised than we ever looked under Kenny, but that is a pretty low bar.

We didn't even look like we knew who was on penalty duty.

[Razors left peg]

Giving the job to O'Shea on the basis of one game would be utterly ridiculous.

We were more organised than we ever looked under Kenny, but that is a pretty low bar.

We didn't even look like we knew who was on penalty duty.

Luckily we have a 2nd game to see too :)

[SkStu]

I agree wrt the full salary package. But overall i'd be happy with him. I'm actually quite excited by Paddy McCarthy's involvement - he's one to watch I think. And I have a feeling Whelan has something to offer too. I'm not convinced by Eirambler's reasoning about this essentially being a Kerr team fronted by JOS. I think that's understating the strength of character of the younger lads.

I think I am in the same boat regarding O'Shea (but equally don't know if I've just been worn down to accept it). He talks a good game, has an aura and credibility that SK was sorely lacking even 4 years later, his first game showed there's life in the Irish dog yet and I do love the team around him (having Kerr there, fronting or not, is a good thing for us)... they could do alright. I dont know though... friendlies are one thing, competitive games - any competitive game - is different gravy. As Eirambler says, there will be some stink around Canham and co for a while if it turns out to be O'Shea. I had thought, as others here mentioned, that the current team would be the backroom team for the new man - and all based on Canhams comments.

[zero]

I think I am in the same boat regarding O'Shea (but equally don't know if I've just been worn down to accept it). He talks a good game, has an aura and credibility that SK was sorely lacking even 4 years later, his first game showed there's life in the Irish dog yet and I do love the team around him (having Kerr there, fronting or not, is a good thing for us)... they could do alright. I dont know though... friendlies are one thing, competitive games - any competitive game - is different gravy. As Eirambler says, there will be some stink around Canham and co for a while if it turns out to be O'Shea. I had thought, as others here mentioned, that the current team would be the backroom team for the new man - and all based on Canhams comments.

Yep just to clarify, quibbles about potential salary aside, I'd be ok with O'Shea. He and his team pass the crucial gut test, and while the eye test results are pending, another good performance this evening will help matters there. Possibly being naive but unless they pull a rabbit out of the bag I'm not seeing a great alternative, Poyet I suppose with his connection to JOSH would make sense but you'd think he'd want his own backroom staff.

[JR89]

Giving the job to O'Shea on the basis of one game would be utterly ridiculous.

We were more organised than we ever looked under Kenny, but that is a pretty low bar.

We didn't even look like we knew who was on penalty duty.

Which makes the decision to let Kenny see out the qualifiers even worse. The remaining games against Greece, Gibraltar, and Holland would have told us way more about John O'Shea as a coach than any March friendlies ever would.

Agree with JRG that if they're honestly considering O'Shea then there's better young Irish coaches than him out there. And that for all the negatives that come Chris Hughton's way he's still a better pick if the players prefer an Irish coach.

[osarusan]

To a certain extent, confirming anybody as manager is better than all this going round in circles, but the comments by FAI bosses make it clear that O'Shea wasn't on the radar until recently. Whatever plan was in place for Carsley/Poyet/whoever has obviously fallen through.

And he has no experience as a manager. It's hard to gauge the performance of backroom staff as they often get fired along with the first team manager regardless of how they've done, so he really is an unknown.

The whole thing's a real mess tbh.

[dahamsta]

Can we keep the discussion on the next Ireland managers and move the what is and isn't racist discuss to current affairs

The mod said stop. Stop. Next comment on the topic gets suspended for a week.

[SkStu]

Its like after the teacher gives out to you and everyone is quiet for a bit after.

[Razors left peg]

Thank God there's a bit of football for everyone to complain about today

[Crosby87]

Thank God there's a bit of football for everyone to complain about today

You are referring to Malta V Belarus I assume? I'm amped for this. Does Henry Bobeklo start in net for The Malteds? Been up all night wondering.

[backstothewall]

Poyet new bookies favorite at 6/4.

[backstothewall]

And the Greece v Georgia playoff game comes down to penalties.

EDIT. Georgia go through. Poyet is officially available.

[passinginterest]

And the Greece v Georgia playoff game comes down to penalties.

EDIT. Georgia go through. Poyet is officially available.
A team proven to be better than ours, losing an important playoff to Georgia doesn’t bode well!!

[passinginterest]

Apparently Roberto di Matteo is also at the game so he’s the latest surprise contender!

[Jolly Red Giant]

A team proven to be better than ours, losing an important playoff to Georgia doesn’t bode well!!
Poyet is better than a lot of the other names mentioned - and anything can happen in a one off game. The game degenerated into a scuffle and that benefitted Georgia despite Greece dominating possession. Georgia are likely to get destroyed in the finals.

[JR89]

Apparently Roberto di Matteo is also at the game so he’s the latest surprise contender!

Gavin Cumminsky tweeted that the FAI have confirmed that he is not in the running for the job.

[passinginterest]

There’s a fella who looks like Cesc Fabregas sitting beside Pat Bonner and wearing the new Ireland jacket if anyone fancies an outside bet!

[Eirambler]

Wonder are the people that were ready to settle for O'Shea based on a scoreless draw in a nothing game against a disinterested Belgium team going to stick or twist on that position after tonight?

[Diggs246]

I don't believe for second we've a manager signed up for an April announcement
I'm delighted Hill ooks like he will be sacked tomorrow. He was just awful.

[SkStu]

Wonder are the people that were ready to settle for O'Shea based on a scoreless draw in a nothing game against a disinterested Belgium team going to stick or twist on that position after tonight?

twist. (is that the one where its not him? :D)

[Eirambler]

I think there will be a lot of people twisting after that. Will be fascinating to see what happens next. My gut is still telling me it will be Poyet, but who knows at this point.

[Razors left peg]

Wonder are the people that were ready to settle for O'Shea based on a scoreless draw in a nothing game against a disinterested Belgium team going to stick or twist on that position after tonight?

I think anyone that said O'Shea could get it based on Belgium always added the caveat If Swiss game goes well. It didnt, and he wont get it.

[seanfhear]

I think anyone that said O'Shea could get it based on Belgium always added the caveat If Swiss game goes well. It didnt, and he wont get it.
What is there is no one else !

[Razors left peg]

What is there is no one else !

Canham and Hill will be sh1tting bricks tonight if O'Shea was their plan