Next Senior Men's Team Manager - Runners and Riders

[CSAD]

McCarthy was much more effective the second time around as manager - the first time he didn't have the experience. If Saipan had occurred during his second tenure I expect that he would have handled it differently and kept Keane onside - and he wouldn't have f*cked up against Spain not realising that they only had ten men on the pitch and one of them couldn't run. What it actually shows is that you need experience to be an international manager and it also helps a lot if you have experience as an international manager.

Considering the circumstances he was in I think McCarthy did really well the 2nd time around, within about 2 games he already managed to created a settled enough side and made us competitive in a tricky group. I keep thinking imagine if he was hired after the 2018 WC play off and got a whole year to mould a team rather than being thrown straight into the fire how things might have gone, we'd also have probably done better in the NL which would have meant we were at home in the play off instead of away.

What I would give for someone like Mick McCarthy now, someone with a little bit of nouse at this level.

[seanfhear]

Steve Clarke might soon be available !

[Snapshot]

McCarthy was much more effective the second time around as manager - the first time he didn't have the experience. If Saipan had occurred during his second tenure I expect that he would have handled it differently and kept Keane onside - and he wouldn't have f*cked up against Spain not realising that they only had ten men on the pitch and one of them couldn't run. What it actually shows is that you need experience to be an international manager and it also helps a lot if you have experience as an international manager.
That's an interesting take on Mick McCarthy but it's a big call. His second stint in charge wasn't pretty, but the fighting display against excellent Denmark almost qualified us. I believe we would have qualified anyway had he remained manager for the play-off.

But 2002 was McCarthy prime time. The making of the man, he was brilliant. Ireland were KO'd by the catastrophic missing of penalties - and not a trumped-up player-count incident.

McCarthy also drew inspired performances from Robbie Keane, Duff, Quinn, Holland and others. And all despite the disruption, chaos and embarrassment caused by a gutless captain. Had Roy Keane chose to play for his country, it's not unrealistic to suggest Ireland could have reached the World Cup final.

[SkStu]

That's an interesting take on Mick McCarthy but it's a big call. His second stint in charge wasn't pretty, but the fighting display against excellent Denmark almost qualified us. I believe we would have qualified anyway had he remained manager for the play-off.

But 2002 was McCarthy prime time. The making of the man, he was brilliant. Ireland were KO'd by the catastrophic missing of penalties - and not a trumped-up player-count incident.

McCarthy also drew inspired performances from Robbie Keane, Duff, Quinn, Holland and others. And all despite the disruption, chaos and embarrassment caused by a gutless captain. Had Roy Keane chose to play for his country, it's not unrealistic to suggest Ireland could have reached the World Cup final.

Well said. His second stint, though, was telling in so far as how little his coaching ability had evolved as the game itself had.

[seanfhear]

That's an interesting take on Mick McCarthy but it's a big call. His second stint in charge wasn't pretty, but the fighting display against excellent Denmark almost qualified us. I believe we would have qualified anyway had he remained manager for the play-off.

But 2002 was McCarthy prime time. The making of the man, he was brilliant. Ireland were KO'd by the catastrophic missing of penalties - and not a trumped-up player-count incident.

McCarthy also drew inspired performances from Robbie Keane, Duff, Quinn, Holland and others. And all despite the disruption, chaos and embarrassment caused by a gutless captain. Had Roy Keane chose to play for his country, it's not unrealistic to suggest Ireland could have reached the World Cup final.
Except for Brazil and Turkey ~ ~ That was a pretty poor World Cup for quality teams ~ ~ Certainly a possibility that the Republic of Ireland could have got to a semi-final with some good fortune.

[pineapple stu]

After Spain (who beat us on penalties of course, having played us off the park for the first hour and then the opposite for the second hour) it would have been South Korea (dodgy home decisions aplenty of course, but as quarter-final opposition goes, it's about as winnable as you could get) and then in the semis a Germany side we'd already deservedly drawn with earlier in the same competition.

Imagine if that Jason McAteer ad had come true?

[Eirambler]

I'm fairly certain Korea would have beaten us if we had won that shootout against Spain. After all they beat Spain, Portugal and Italy in that World Cup, so what makes people think they wouldn't have beaten us? They had been together for months before the tournament under Hiddink, so were a much more cohesive side than most international teams. And they were getting pretty much every decision going, not just the 50/50s. And they were playing at home obviously. It would have been great to reach the quarter finals again, but they'd have beaten us.

I found McCarthy frustrating in his second term, his football philosophy had really regressed over the years and that was evident in his club jobs in recent years as well. A simple game plan is probably a good idea for an international team alright, but his had become too simple. It was the correct call to move on from him, we just moved on to completely the wrong person, which maybe makes Mick 2.0 look better in hindsight than it was.

[Diggs246]

Off point, but I'm going to make it. we have better players than Albania. It makes it harder us not being there

[CraftyToePoke]

Started a tournament thread in World Football for those who'd like to chat about it. I think we could all do with talking about anything other than this thread for a bit or until something real happens, for our own psychological wellbeing.

[pineapple stu]

I'm fairly certain Korea would have beaten us if we had won that shootout against Spain. After all they beat Spain, Portugal and Italy in that World Cup, so what makes people think they wouldn't have beaten us?
They possibly would have, but we were a very difficult team to beat ourselves, as Portugal, Germany, Spain and Holland had found out. Granted we rode our luck a bit in some of those games, but still.

We might still have lost, but there's no-one I think can look at a World Cup quarter-final tie against South Korea and not see it as a great chance to make the semis

[Diggs246]

They possibly would have, but we were a very difficult team to beat ourselves, as Portugal, Germany, Spain and Holland had found out. Granted we rode our luck a bit in some of those games, but still.

We might still have lost, but there's no-one I think can look at a World Cup quarter-final tie against South Korea and not see it as a great chance to make the semis

Also korea had more than luck v Spain and Italy

[Olé Olé]

Paul Rowan in the Times today speculating about Carsley. A big long piece which contained little aside from Carsley being at England 20s game v Ireland 21s, Carsley being an England scout at Euros and... Emmm... FAI reps being at the Euros.

Basically he says FAI shouldn't close the door on Carsley (not that they haven't) and speculates as to whether Hill's departure is a help.

A lot of column inches for very little in this piece. Good man , Paul.

[CSAD]

Paul Rowan in the Times today speculating about Carsley. A big long piece which contained little aside from Carsley being at England 20s game v Ireland 21s, Carsley being an England scout at Euros and... Emmm... FAI reps being at the Euros.

Basically he says FAI shouldn't close the door on Carsley (not that they haven't) and speculates as to whether Hill's departure is a help.

A lot of column inches for very little in this piece. Good man , Paul.

The FAI reps could also be at the Euros for Sagnol or meeting his representatives.

[Crosby87]

They also might just love wienerschnitzel

We may never know.

[seanfhear]

They also might just love wienerschnitzel

We may never know.
German beer is very good !

[Bungle]

I'm fairly certain Korea would have beaten us if we had won that shootout against Spain. After all they beat Spain, Portugal and Italy in that World Cup, so what makes people think they wouldn't have beaten us? They had been together for months before the tournament under Hiddink, so were a much more cohesive side than most international teams. And they were getting pretty much every decision going, not just the 50/50s. And they were playing at home obviously. It would have been great to reach the quarter finals again, but they'd have beaten us.

I found McCarthy frustrating in his second term, his football philosophy had really regressed over the years and that was evident in his club jobs in recent years as well. A simple game plan is probably a good idea for an international team alright, but his had become too simple. It was the correct call to move on from him, we just moved on to completely the wrong person, which maybe makes Mick 2.0 look better in hindsight than it was.

If we had beaten Spain, I would have fancied us. I don't disagree that if gigantic nations like Spain and Italy were ****ed over, they would get even more decisions against little old Ireland, but we would have been on the crest of a wave. Put it like this, we were a better team than them. That's not to disagree that they would have had huge advantages that we would have had to navigate.

I think the Germans would have beaten us in the semis. I think the exuberance mixed with exhaustion may have been too much against them. It was a relatively mediocre German team with two exceptional players in Kahn and Ballack, but it's still Germany and they know how to navigate semis.

I guess we'll never know.

[SkStu]

They also might just love wienerschnitzel

We may never know.

Wienerschnitzel is Austrian dude.

[elatedscum]

Wienerschnitzel is Austrian dude.

The germans and austrians all have a good claim to it... The recipe first appeared as eingebroeselte Kalbsschnitzchen (breaded veal cutlets) in Die Sueddeutsche Kueche (South German Cooking), written by an Austrian, but she was describing Baverian and Swabian cuisine from the era...

If you spend any time in Baveria, you'll find the schnitzels are as good as across the border...

[SkStu]

I’ve spent time in both! And I love schnitzel!! Never had one I didn’t like!! Wiener literally translates as Viennese and I’m pretty sure it’s one of Austrias national dishes..

[pineapple stu]

I'm in Austria right now and can confirm it's listed in the Austrian speciality section of menus and billboards.

And can also confirm it's yummy!

[John83]

I'm in Austria right now and can confirm it's listed in the Austrian speciality section of menus and billboards.

And can also confirm it's yummy!
Try the Sachertorte.

[CSAD]

Another former Irish international, or clown would be a better way of describing him, fully backs O'Shea to get the job.
1801604250801422839

What I find so concerning is how many Irish "pundits" dont care anymore about the national team to the point they'll give it to virtually anyone...even the praise the likes of Meyler and Cawley give O'Shea...the term "damning with faint praise" comes to mind, quite concerning if the best praise they can give him is "he's liked by the players.

[Stuttgart88]

Off point, but I'm going to make it. we have better players than Albania. It makes it harder us not being thereI've been thinking about this and it may or may not be true. It doesn't actually matter. I'm beginning to think it's not the individual standard that counts but more the collective understanding of how to play a team game. Part of that can be coached into a team. I read a piece on the Italian team on Saturday morning that the coach has 6 mantras written on a whiteboard at the training ground, rules that players must follow (https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/14/playstations-selection-puzzles-as-italy-press-start-on-euro-2024-title-defence).

The six football “commandments” pinned to the whiteboard at Italy’s Coverciano training base before they departed for Germany made no mention of PlayStations or headphones. What they listed instead was a series of guiding principles for how the European champions should defend their title on the pitch.

1) Continuous pressing. 2) Control the play (ball management). 3) Tied together (distances between teammates: short, close). 4) Ferocious reaggression (when the ball is lost). 5) Recomposition (get back to your places). 6) Order, study, and prepare (to get back to pressing).

I particularly liked 3. Sometimes the gaps between our lines are huge. I took a screenshot a couple of years ago when Ronan Curtis was on the ball, 25 yards from goal. It wasn't even a counter attack. There was nobody with 20m of him.

But whether it's coached or whether it's instinct based on years of growing up playing the game properly, the point is good teams do the right things as a unit. I thought when Switzerland visited us recently they bullied us into accepting that they were dictating the game. It was almost Subbuteo-like how they could manipulate where our players had to be on the pitch. This wasn't because they had X player who could tackle or Y player who could dribble, it was because they all knew what to do together.

So I'm rambling a bit now - confusing myself over whether it's cultural or coached (maybe it can be either or both) but this is what frustrates me watching Ireland. Even England with all their quality were unable to control a game they dominated early last night.

This is where I had sympathy with what I think Kenny was trying to do.

I remember Junior posting years ago here that there'll always be a bit of huff and puff about how Ireland plays. At times huff and puff was all we had though. And tippy tappy without any huff and puff will only ever end one way too. I'm reluctantly coming around to Kerr's view that under the two Dutch technical directors we were playing technically sound but soulless football at youth level. Lots of pretty passing but no "street football".

Another coaching quote I like is Ange Postecolglou saying he tells his Spurs players to play like they were kids. Try the audacious, be ambitious, express yourselves. I loved Bellingham's interview where he said football is what he loves doing most, it's what gives him joy, it's his release. Wes and Andy Reid spring to mind. Robbie and Duff too.

Above all so far in the Euros I've seen every player in the good teams really really want to be on the ball. If they don't have it they look for it. And if a guy senses his teammmate is going to receive it he's already there to be the next option. Usually it's two players sensing this, and others anticipate what's coming next.

I hate to say it but I don't see any of that that at all in our teams. With a couple of exceptions I don't think we have the courage to want to be the next receiver.


PS: I also loved this:

A mocked-up image of the manager in Thursday’s edition of La Gazzetta dello Sport showed him holding up an alternative list of commandments that included restrictions on when players could use their phones and a ban on players walking around with headphones on and “a stupid look on their face” – a direct quote from Spalletti, albeit not a new one.

[CSAD]

I've been thinking about this and it may or may not be true. It doesn't actually matter. I'm beginning to think it's not the individual standard that counts but more the collective understanding of how to play a team game. Part of that can be coached into a team. I read a piece on the Italian team on Saturday morning that the coach has 6 mantras written on a whiteboard at the training ground, rules that players must follow (https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/14/playstations-selection-puzzles-as-italy-press-start-on-euro-2024-title-defence).

The six football “commandments” pinned to the whiteboard at Italy’s Coverciano training base before they departed for Germany made no mention of PlayStations or headphones. What they listed instead was a series of guiding principles for how the European champions should defend their title on the pitch.

1) Continuous pressing. 2) Control the play (ball management). 3) Tied together (distances between teammates: short, close). 4) Ferocious reaggression (when the ball is lost). 5) Recomposition (get back to your places). 6) Order, study, and prepare (to get back to pressing).

I particularly liked 3. Sometimes the gaps between our lines are huge. I took a screenshot a couple of years ago when Ronan Curtis was on the ball, 25 yards from goal. It wasn't even a counter attack. There was nobody with 20m of him.

But whether it's coached or whether it's instinct based on years of growing up playing the game properly, the point is good teams do the right things as a unit. I thought when Switzerland visited us recently they bullied us into accepting that they were dictating the game. It was almost Subbuteo-like how they could manipulate where our players had to be on the pitch. This wasn't because they had X player who could tackle or Y player who could dribble, it was because they all knew what to do together.

So I'm rambling a bit now - confusing myself over whether it's cultural or coached (maybe it can be either or both) but this is what frustrates me watching Ireland. Even England with all their quality were unable to control a game they dominated early last night.

This is where I had sympathy with what I think Kenny was trying to do.

I remember Junior posting years ago here that there'll always be a bit of huff and puff about how Ireland plays. At times huff and puff was all we had though. And tippy tappy without any huff and puff will only ever end one way too. I'm reluctantly coming around to Kerr's view that under the two Dutch technical directors we were playing technically sound but soulless football at youth level. Lots of pretty passing but no "street football".

Another coaching quote I like is Ange Postecolglou saying he tells his Spurs players to play like they were kids. Try the audacious, be ambitious, express yourselves. I loved Bellingham's interview where he said football is what he loves doing most, it's what gives him joy, it's his release. Wes and Andy Reid spring to mind. Robbie and Duff too.

Above all so far in the Euros I've seen every player in the good teams really really want to be on the ball. If they don't have it they look for it. And if a guy senses his teammmate is going to receive it he's already there to be the next option. Usually it's two players sensing this, and others anticipate what's coming next.

I hate to say it but I don't see any of that that at all in our teams. With a couple of exceptions I don't think we have the courage to want to be the next receiver.


PS: I also loved this:

A mocked-up image of the manager in Thursday’s edition of La Gazzetta dello Sport showed him holding up an alternative list of commandments that included restrictions on when players could use their phones and a ban on players walking around with headphones on and “a stupid look on their face” – a direct quote from Spalletti, albeit not a new one.


Kerr's view is things were better when he was around, colour me shocked. Ngl when I listen to people like Kerr it feels like a self serving prophecy and about making them look great rather than actually caring about Irish football.

[Stuttgart88]

Kerr's view is things were better when he was around, colour me shocked. Ngl when I listen to people like Kerr it feels like a self serving prophecy and about making them look great rather than actually caring about Irish football.Which is why I said "reluctantly". He has been too bitter to take on face value but I still think he's close to the truth when he says we're lacking street football instincts. I'm not close enough to grassroots football to know though.

[Bungle]

I've been thinking about this and it may or may not be true. It doesn't actually matter. I'm beginning to think it's not the individual standard that counts but more the collective understanding of how to play a team game. Part of that can be coached into a team. I read a piece on the Italian team on Saturday morning that the coach has 6 mantras written on a whiteboard at the training ground, rules that players must follow (https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/14/playstations-selection-puzzles-as-italy-press-start-on-euro-2024-title-defence)

The six football “commandments” pinned to the whiteboard at Italy’s Coverciano training base before they departed for Germany made no mention of PlayStations or headphones. What they listed instead was a series of guiding principles for how the European champions should defend their title on the pitch.

1) Continuous pressing. 2) Control the play (ball management). 3) Tied together (distances between teammates: short, close). 4) Ferocious reaggression (when the ball is lost). 5) Recomposition (get back to your places). 6) Order, study, and prepare (to get back to pressing).

I particularly liked 3. Sometimes the gaps between our lines are huge. I took a screenshot a couple of years ago when Ronan Curtis was on the ball, 25 yards from goal. It wasn't even a counter attack. There was nobody with 20m of him.

But whether it's coached or whether it's instinct based on years of growing up playing the game properly, the point is good teams do the right things as a unit. I thought when Switzerland visited us recently they bullied us into accepting that thewy were dictating the game. It was almost Subbuteo-like where they could manipulate where our players had to be on the pitch. This wasn't because they had X player who could tackle or Y player who could dribble, it was because they all knew what to do together.

So I'm rambling a bit now - confusing myself over whether it's cultural or coached (maybe it can be either or both) but this is what frustrates me watching Ireland. Even England with all their quality were unable to control a game they dominated early last night.

This is where I had sympathy with what I think Kenny was trying to do.

I remember Junior posting years ago here that there'll always bea bit of huff and puff about how Ireland plays. At times huff and puffwas all we had though. And tippy tappy without any huff and puff will only ever end one way too. I'm reluctantly coming around to Kerr's view that under the two Dutch technical directors we were playing technically sound but soulless football. Lots of pretty passing but no "street football"

Another coaching quote I like is Ange Postecolglou saying he tells his Spurs players to play like they were kids. Try the audacious, be ambitious, express yourselves.

Above all so far in the Euros I've seen every player in the good teams really really want to be on the ball. If they don't have it they look for it. And if a guy senses his teammmate is going to receive it he's already there to be the next option. Usually it's two players sensing this, and others anticipate what's coming next.

I hate to say it but I don't see that at all in our teams. I don't think we have the courage to want to be the next receiver.

PS: I also loved this:

A mocked-up image of the manager in Thursday’s edition of La Gazzetta dello Sport showed him holding up an alternative list of commandments that included restrictions on when players could use their phones and a ban on players walking around with headphones on and “a stupid look on their face” – a direct quote from Spalletti, albeit not a new one.

Good post.

England have terrific players but Southgate is incredibly poor so they'll lose control of games to any really decent team. It's why an Italy or Germany will almost certainly knock them out at the business end of a competition in most cases, but even a Denmark, Croatia or Switzerland, who are technically very good and tactically so well organised often can.

O'Shea is our Southgate. Difference being we have Kelleher (would be England's best keeper imo), some very talented defenders (O'Brien and Collins would make the England u21 team) and Ferguson (would be a current England u21 - may have been called up in the Autumn for an England cap before injury and subsequent loss of form.) The rest are premier league journeymen (Coleman was very good in his day) and very good Championship players. A cockney mate told me Parrott was one of the best youth players he had seen in years - I don't think he'll be a top premier league player but if he became a good one or a good player in a decent league that's okay. Cannon is one to watch imo. Lawal and Moran are too. England just have so many options.

I loved that paragraph about Switzerland and it's so true.

[CSAD]

Which is why I said "reluctantly". He has been too bitter to take on face value but I still think he's close to the truth when he says we're lacking street football instincts. I'm not close enough to grassroots football to know though.

I would say there is no "reluctantly" he's just flat out wrong. I wont completely throw him under the bus as I dont think he's the only one but him combined with the amount of pundits supporting O'Shea has all but confirmed what I've already thought...that this is all some effort to make the whole set up a "jobs for the boys" sort of club and it's all been done to make them look good at the expense of the NT. I mean just look at them slamming Kenny but then jumping to O'Shea's defence when very little has actually changed!

Tbh Ill reserve judgment on the whole "lacking street football instincts" just like I will on most things with the Irish team until we get a proper manager in place as the managers we've had for the last 4 years are very good at making any player look terrible.

[Bungle]

Which is why I said "reluctantly". He has been too bitter to take on face value but I still think he's close to the truth when he says we're lacking street football instincts. I'm not close enough to grassroots football to know though.

The loss of street football has been huge. I met a Spurs youth team coach on holiday a few years ago (15 or 20) and he was talking about how he couldn't get over how technically good the Dublin and Belfast lads were when they were training so little at local clubs compared to the local English lads in his academy. He remarked how they were street footballers and talked about how that's been lost over there a bit. The irony is it's been lost over here to the point where it's nearly non-existent and over there, they have the cage football. Parrott is a bit of a street footballer, as is Jack Byrne. Andy Reid was the classic street footballer. Hoolahan definitely was. I can't think of many others in the last few years.

[tetsujin1979]

Good post.

England have terrific players but Southgate is incredibly poor so they'll lose control of games to any really decent team. It's why an Italy or Germany will almost certainly knock them out at the business end of a competition in most cases, but even a Denmark, Croatia or Switzerland, who are technically very good and tactically so well organised often can.

O'Shea is our Southgate. Difference being we have Kelleher (would be England's best keeper imo), some very talented defenders (O'Brien and Collins would make the England u21 team) and Ferguson (would be a current England u21 - may have been called up in the Autumn for an England cap before injury and subsequent loss of form.) The rest are premier league journeymen (Coleman was very good in his day) and very good Championship players. A cockney mate told me Parrott was one of the best youth players he had seen in years - I don't think he'll be a top premier league player but if he became a good one or a good player in a decent league that's okay. Cannon is one to watch imo. Lawal and Moran are too. England just have so many options.

I loved that paragraph about Switzerland and it's so true.

Ken Early said something similar after the France game at home, that watching France move us around the pitch was like watching sheepdogs herding sheep. To put it in a sporting context, I thought it was more like watching the Mayweather-McGregor "fight". After taking two rounds to figure McGregor out, Mayweather marched him around the ring, put McGregor where he wanted him to stand, and then hit him, and then repeated it for the next eight rounds.

[CSAD]

Good post.

England have terrific players but Southgate is incredibly poor so they'll lose control of games to any really decent team. It's why an Italy or Germany will almost certainly knock them out at the business end of a competition in most cases, but even a Denmark, Croatia or Switzerland, who are technically very good and tactically so well organised often can.

O'Shea is our Southgate. Difference being we have Kelleher (would be England's best keeper imo), some very talented defenders (O'Brien and Collins would make the England u21 team) and Ferguson (would be a current England u21 - may have been called up in the Autumn for an England cap before injury and subsequent loss of form.) The rest are premier league journeymen (Coleman was very good in his day) and very good Championship players. A cockney mate told me Parrott was one of the best youth players he had seen in years - I don't think he'll be a top premier league player but if he became a good one or a good player in a decent league that's okay. Cannon is one to watch imo. Lawal and Moran are too. England just have so many options.

I loved that paragraph about Switzerland and it's so true.

I personally wouldn't write off Parrott just yet, I think the upcoming season will be a defining one for him as his loan in Holland was probably the first time at senior level he started to look like the player we hoped he could be. I think after this season we'll have a very good idea about where his future lies.

[Bungle]

I personally wouldn't write off Parrott just yet, I think the upcoming season will be a defining one for him as his loan in Holland was probably the first time at senior level he started to look like the player we hoped he could be. I think after this season we'll have a very good idea about where his future lies.

I agree. Parrott has it in his locker to be a very good player for us and play at a very decent level. His problem is that he was a world class youth player, just like Jack Byrne was and was held up as the saviour of Irish football.

He's a prime example of the importance of the right loan. Conor Bradley goes to Bolton, does very well and is now a star at Liverpool. Jake O'Brien goes to Belgium and does very well and gets a move to Lyon. Troy's loan moves just didn't seem to be the right fit for his skillset. I would have thought a more technical team in Europe rather than the likes of Preston.

[Snapshot]

I would say there is no "reluctantly" he's just flat out wrong. I wont completely throw him under the bus as I dont think he's the only one but him combined with the amount of pundits supporting O'Shea has all but confirmed what I've already thought...that this is all some effort to make the whole set up a "jobs for the boys" sort of club and it's all been done to make them look good at the expense of the NT. I mean just look at them slamming Kenny but then jumping to O'Shea's defence when very little has actually changed!

Tbh Ill reserve judgment on the whole "lacking street football instincts" just like I will on most things with the Irish team until we get a proper manager in place as the managers we've had for the last 4 years are very good at making any player look terrible.

Why is it in the interests of the Irish media/punditry that John O'Shea should be appointed?
What's in it for them if he proves a success? Lots of stories.
What's in it for them if he fails miserably? Lots of stories.
What jobs for what boys? They already have jobs.
Slamming Kenny? He had the most benign media coverage. Irish journalists gave him the longest honeymoon in history.

[CSAD]

Why is it in the interests of the Irish media/punditry that John O'Shea should be appointed?
What's in it for them if he proves a success? Lots of stories.
What's in it for them if he fails miserably? Lots of stories.
What jobs for what boys? They already have jobs.
Slamming Kenny? He had the most benign media coverage. Irish journalists gave him the longest honeymoon in history.


Well more so the pundits rather than the media. My first and main feeling was it's either A. a former teammate/ friend or B. The FAI behind the scene is twists the arms of pundits to say something nice about O'Shea's management so they have an excuse without blaming the fact that they wasted 8+ months and 5 friendlies just to end up with their assistant manager who has no experience as a manager....or C. A combination of both.

Now the main reason why im suspicious is the amount they are backing O'Shea, its bordering on desperation at this stage. Now it could be the factors I've mentioned before or an alterer motive at play that they haven't mentioned because what I don't get is its a manager less experienced than Kenny, who sets the team up similarly to Kenny and was ultimately part of the team that failed abysmally in the Euro 2024 qualifying....on top of all that all the factors that were at play during Kenny's reign that he was criticised for are still present and yet despite everything I've mentioned here already O'Shea is receiving none of the same criticism that Kenny got and is back without any pushback.

Now I dont know about you but I have a pretty logical head on my shoulders and I have a keen eye for things that don't add up and for me all this support for O'Shea defies all logic, so what I'm keen now is to uncover what the real reason is for these pundits to be so supportive of a manager that has done the square root of F all to warrant the job getting the job.

[Eirambler]

I think there's definitely an element of not wanting to publicly criticise the 118 cap international also. In the same way as current squad players will always say in every interview that he should get the job, whether they believe it or not, the same probably applies to ex players and other Irish football people to some extent. Half them probably think he's useless, but they don't care enough about the team to say something that might be seen as controversial and generate headlines that might possibly be critical of them for turning on an Irish football "legend". So it's easier to just say "ah yeah, just give it to JOS, sure he's a great fella".

[Stuttgart88]

Extract from Dan McDonnell's free weekly newsletter, written by Sean O'Connor this week. It's a very good newsletter actually, I look forward to getting it. You can add yourself the the mailing list on the Indo website I think.

While my colleagues Dan McDonnell and Aidan Fitzmaurice were in Aveiro to cover Ireland’s clash with Euro 2024-bound Portugal, I was making my way to Vrbovec, a small town around one hour east of Zagreb, for the second match of the U-21s June double-header in Croatia. As Dan and Aidan were reporting on what turned out to be another disappointing away trip for the Boys in Green, my jaunt to central Europe suggested the future could be brighter than some might think. Jim Crawford’s men, who are targeting a first-ever European Championship qualification later this year, were full value for their 3-2 win over five-time finalists Croatia seven days ago before they came from behind to draw 2-2 against England’s U-20s on Tuesday - a team that, just last March, included Crystal Palace’s Adam Wharton, named in Gareth Southgate’s Euro 2024 squad last week. Talk about strength and depth.

Three days ago, as I walked into the Vrbovec town stadium, I noticed a figure sitting near the press box, just at the back of the stand. It was Lee Carsley. The England U-21 boss was on a flying visit to the Balkan nation to cast an eye on the next generation of English talent, and potentially call up some who may help his side qualify for Slovakia 2025, where they’ll look to defend their European Championship crown having won the tournament in 2023.

On an evening when John O’Shea was leading Ireland out in front of a crowd of almost 30,000 in Portugal, here, amongst a handful of spectators at the third-tier ground in the Croatian countryside, the man identified as FAI’s top target to replace Stephen Kenny was taking in an Ireland match - just not the one many supporters on these shores had hoped. The former Ireland midfielder will soon be off to Germany on a scouting mission of England’s potential knockout opponents, but before he left Vrbovec, there was time for some warm chats with several of the FAI’s staff. He caught up with his ex-U-21 teammate Crawford, as well as current U-21 assistant coach Paul McShane, who Carsley won eight senior caps with. He was also presented with an Irish jersey by a member of staff before hitting the road.

Carsley ruled himself out of the Ireland job last March, saying that an initial conversation held in November went no further before the FAI missed two deadlines of February and April to have Kenny’s successor in place by. Two hundred and five days have passed since Kenny’s departure, but the hotseat still remains vacant. The next time an Irish men’s side take on England will be the seniors at Lansdowne Road in September, as the Nations League campaign gets underway.

Last Tuesday served as a reminder of what could have been. Had the FAI got their man, maybe the feeling would be optimism, rather than dread as autumn approaches.

[CSAD]

To make things even more embarrassing, Gus Poyet has only recently left his role with Greece and Greece have already found his replacement.

Broken record at this stage but ill repeat...what an absolute embarrassment of a manager search from the FAI...Greece just put that further into perspective.

[Stuttgart88]

Who did Greece appoint?

[elatedscum]

Who did Greece appoint?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Jovanovi%C4%87_(football_manager)

[Snapshot]

Extract from Dan McDonnell's free weekly newsletter, written by Sean O'Connor this week. It's a very good newsletter actually, I look forward to getting it. You can add yourself the the mailing list on the Indo website I think.

While my colleagues Dan McDonnell and Aidan Fitzmaurice were in Aveiro to cover Ireland’s clash with Euro 2024-bound Portugal, I was making my way to Vrbovec, a small town around one hour east of Zagreb, for the second match of the U-21s June double-header in Croatia. As Dan and Aidan were reporting on what turned out to be another disappointing away trip for the Boys in Green, my jaunt to central Europe suggested the future could be brighter than some might think. Jim Crawford’s men, who are targeting a first-ever European Championship qualification later this year, were full value for their 3-2 win over five-time finalists Croatia seven days ago before they came from behind to draw 2-2 against England’s U-20s on Tuesday - a team that, just last March, included Crystal Palace’s Adam Wharton, named in Gareth Southgate’s Euro 2024 squad last week. Talk about strength and depth.

Three days ago, as I walked into the Vrbovec town stadium, I noticed a figure sitting near the press box, just at the back of the stand. It was Lee Carsley. The England U-21 boss was on a flying visit to the Balkan nation to cast an eye on the next generation of English talent, and potentially call up some who may help his side qualify for Slovakia 2025, where they’ll look to defend their European Championship crown having won the tournament in 2023.

On an evening when John O’Shea was leading Ireland out in front of a crowd of almost 30,000 in Portugal, here, amongst a handful of spectators at the third-tier ground in the Croatian countryside, the man identified as FAI’s top target to replace Stephen Kenny was taking in an Ireland match - just not the one many supporters on these shores had hoped. The former Ireland midfielder will soon be off to Germany on a scouting mission of England’s potential knockout opponents, but before he left Vrbovec, there was time for some warm chats with several of the FAI’s staff. He caught up with his ex-U-21 teammate Crawford, as well as current U-21 assistant coach Paul McShane, who Carsley won eight senior caps with. He was also presented with an Irish jersey by a member of staff before hitting the road.

Carsley ruled himself out of the Ireland job last March, saying that an initial conversation held in November went no further before the FAI missed two deadlines of February and April to have Kenny’s successor in place by. Two hundred and five days have passed since Kenny’s departure, but the hotseat still remains vacant. The next time an Irish men’s side take on England will be the seniors at Lansdowne Road in September, as the Nations League campaign gets underway.

Last Tuesday served as a reminder of what could have been. Had the FAI got their man, maybe the feeling would be optimism, rather than dread as autumn approaches.
Denouement: Barry or Hughton will do nicely. Cheer up.

[CSAD]

Ngl I used to be very pro Carsley but the more time I've spent thinking about it the more I start doubting him as an appointment. He's done well in his roles so far but if we are being honest he'd be in a similar category as Kenny & O'Shea in terms of 1st team managerial experience.

[Razors left peg]

Ngl I used to be very pro Carsley but the more time I've spent thinking about it the more I start doubting him as an appointment. He's done well in his roles so far but if we are being honest he'd be in a similar category as Kenny & O'Shea in terms of 1st team managerial experience.
Kenny was not similar to O'Shea in terms of experience. We can rightly say now that Kenny wasnt good enough at a higher level of management that what he had done previously, but he was a professional football manager. He had won League championships and competed with his team in european competition.

O'Shea has just completed his 4 games of professional football management ever. Even Carsley is not the same by a long stretch. The team that Carsley manages is full of Premiership footballers. He has taken them to an international competition and won. Its not like its a team of u16 kids.

As for thinking Carsley still may take the job, that ship has long sailed.... Although I do hope Im as wrong about that as I was convinced he was taking it! :D

[pineapple stu]

Dave McMillan doesn't think O'Shea is the right man for the job. Sounds like he's been reading this thread

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/0617/1455200-mcmillan-appointing-oshea-would-be-pr-disaster/

[Razors left peg]

Seems that Willy might not be our man either....

https://x.com/nathanmurf/status/1802747276869165070
1802747276869165070

[Crosby87]

Don't care either way but c'mon FFS what's he going to say in that situation...

[CSAD]

Dave McMillan doesn't think O'Shea is the right man for the job. Sounds like he's been reading this thread

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/0617/1455200-mcmillan-appointing-oshea-would-be-pr-disaster/

Wont be getting much airtime after this...he didnt get the memo about being pro O'Shea!

But every word he says is 100% true, you can see the difference between McMillan saying what he thinks and the other clowns clearly reading from a script....is what David says actually makes sense.

In regards the the PR, its feels like all this suspicious support for O'Shea feels very fake and almost like work is being done behind the scene to try build support O'Shea so the FAI can pretend it's someone they wanted and the he's a "popular choice" when anyone with half a brain know's it's complete ********.

[Crosby87]

I'm starting to feel bad for whoever this woman is who is doing commentary on SKY next to Roy...my goodness

She looks like she knows she is tanking too

[elatedscum]

82 days until a competitive game... That's 82 of 294 days between competitive games...

And 82 of 330 days since the home loss to Greece, which was the final nail in the coffin and if the the search hadn't began by then, then that was the time to start the search...

Right now it really feels like a) it's gonna be John O'Shea permanently or b) it's gonna still be an interim manager named John O'Shea or c) they have a handshake deal in place for Sagnol (maybe a racist?) – and the fact Georgia qualified meant it was delayed till post Euros

Maybe they're hoping someone like Sylvinho becomes available after the Euros. Saying that, his wages are at the limit of our budget and his backroom team exceed our budget. So if Albania have an anyway successful Euros then he's surely out of our league, both in terms of budget and in terms of alternative desirable jobs. And that's the basic dynamic, anyone who does well enough to make themselves a good candidate at the euros almost immediately becomes out of range. Maybe if Scotland or whoever get tonked and lose all their games, their manager suffers enough of a reputational hit that they become candidates - but if a manager is so outclassed at an international stage, then do we even want them?

What was the alleged shortlist?

Sagnol: failed at Bordeaux. Georgia job consists of 4th of 5 in WC Qualification and Euros qualification. They won their nation's league C group, featuring Bulgaria, Macedonia and Gibraltar, which got them a playoff first home against Luxembourg, then home against Greece where they won on penalties. They have a generational talent in kvaratskhelia who won Serie A's 'MVP' in 2023 and PSG are willing to pay €80m to make him Mbappe's replacement. So I wouldn't class it as a success yet really, depends how they do in the euros. That's aside from the issues around whether he's racist...

JOS: failed the audition twice, no senior managerial experience

Hudson: failed in the conference, winning only 1 of 12 games with Newport in his first start to a season, where Newport were expected to challenge for promotion. Most recently managed 3 games for Qatari team Al-Markhiya before "leaving his position as manager by mutual consent"

Hughton: Ghana was a bit of a disaster. Forest was a bit of a disaster. Been 5 years since Brighton.

Bilic: Currently managing in Saudi, last successful job was probably when he got West Brom promoted in 19/20, was probably also fairly harshly sacked. Since then, tough spell in China and as you'd expect, a short-lived spell at Watford. Loses points for managing in Saudi, gains points for encouraging Declan Rice to play for Ireland...

It's both an uninspired list and a list that has largely been available for the duration of the search. Considering the average managerial job in football lasts just 16 months, you'd expect some new and exciting names to appear over the course of the 248 days that have passed

[CSAD]

Don't care either way but c'mon FFS what's he going to say in that situation...

I'm starting to think it wont be him either but as you said what else do you expect him to say especially on the eve of Georgia kicking off the Euros...interesting to mention that he never ruled it out or denied being contact, some might consider that a "come get me" sort of statement. The fact he hasn't extended his contract yet for me is quite telling for someone who say's they'll be staying with the association "for years". Now of course he might just re-sign with Georgia in a few weeks but I've learned from experience judge someone based on their actions rather than their words.


Different sport but I always remember Eddie Jones saying "my future is with Australia" during the RWC after rumours circulated about him taking over Japan...and then mysteriously in no time at all after the RWC he ends up being the Japan head coach after all...

[Crosby87]

Oh Golly there's a ton of examples for sure.

Coaches swearing they are staying, yelling at press, and they have already secretly negotiated deals..Nick Saban did it with the Dolphins, Bobby Petrino couldn't be more adamant he was staying with the Falcons, then the next day left notes in their lockers and split at 6 am

[Eirambler]

Yeah, it was actually fairly ridiculous even asking the question. But, if he felt he had to ask, once he got the textbook answer it was barely worth mentioning further, never mind knocking a news story out if it.