View Full Version : 2022 Season, Arrivals and Departures
Is it going to change anything? SOD has left Pats................
patsdad
03/12/2021, 9:22 PM
I doubt very much that Pats want him anywhere near their dugout. Unless it’s to paint it. But I can’t see them allowing him to take up employment anywhere else until his contract is bought out. This is the norm, folks. It was done properly during the week between Pats and Drogheda in relation to Clancy.
pineapple stu
03/12/2021, 9:24 PM
They can't stop him.
No more than your employer can stop you walking out in the morning for a better job.
2 Year Contract
03/12/2021, 9:25 PM
Is it going to change anything? SOD has left Pats................
Youre right yeah, should probably close this forum down now so.
Talking about a match after it’s over? What’s the point, it won’t change anything because Team A beat Team B.
The spire has been bombed? What’s the point in talking about it, it won’t undo the bomb
Nesta99
03/12/2021, 9:25 PM
It may go to arbitration to agree compensation; I don't know the exact ins and outs in a football capacity. Though Dundalk got nothing for Fenn. It may not have helped that they agreed to annul his contract.
But there's nothing in employment law stopping him starting with Dundalk tomorrow
For clarity when Fenn approached Dundalk to retire, cash in on whatever sports person tax back the club accepted his request. He requested his player registration with Dundalk be annulled so he could play amateur footy. When Dundalk did so he then was fre to register with Rovers and did so. It was allegedly a loophole that was flagged up for Fenn by the PFAI specifically McGuinness but I dont know who would have had that level of detail unless Fenn/McGuinness said it. It was naïve by Dundalk to so easily hand up the players reg if he was retiring. With managers simply being employees on contracts and not needing to be registered with clubs/associations rooted in transfer window regs, then wouldnt it be just Irish employment law thats relevant!? So it could take time to tidy up legally, delay announcments out of Oriel but not make a whole lot of difference. Genuine question - can a manager resign as any employee can at any time irrespective of their contract as long as they work their notice period, or give up entitlements to a similar 'value'. Many employers just want the unhappy employee gone as soon as notice is given. I have no idea if a notice period is linked to length of time employed in the kind of way redundancies can be determined?
I doubt very much that Pats want him anywhere near their dugout. Unless it’s to paint it. But I can’t see them allowing him to take up employment anywhere else until his contract is bought out. This is the norm, folks. It was done properly during the week between Pats and Drogheda in relation to Clancy.
What's that got to do with anything, Drogs lost their manager and thanked Pats for taking him? J Christ.
patsdad
03/12/2021, 9:28 PM
What's that got to do with anything, Drogs lost their manager and thanked Pats for taking him? J Christ.
Pats bought out his contract.
total hoofball
03/12/2021, 9:30 PM
I doubt very much that Pats want him anywhere near their dugout. Unless it’s to paint it. But I can’t see them allowing him to take up employment anywhere else until his contract is bought out. This is the norm, folks. It was done properly during the week between Pats and Drogheda in relation to Clancy.
If SOD is still under contract and if Pats don't accept his resignation they have then backed themselves into a corner with two managers/head coaches and their salaries now under contract, there is always a risk Dundalk could walk away from it all and appoint someone else
patsdad
03/12/2021, 9:32 PM
They can't stop him.
No more than your employer can stop you walking out in the morning for a better job.
God save us from amateur lawyers.
Football manager contracts are specifically designed to prevent a manager “walking out for a better job”. Why else do you think that compensation is regularly paid, as Pats have done in relation to Clancy?
Longfordian
03/12/2021, 9:33 PM
The spire has been bombed? What’s the point in talking about it, it won’t undo the bomb
Not before time.
pineapple stu
03/12/2021, 9:35 PM
God save us from amateur lawyers.
Football manager contracts are specifically designed to prevent a manager “walking out for a better job”. Why else do you think that compensation is regularly paid, as Pats have done in relation to Clancy?
And I've said that compensation may have to be agreed or decided by arbitration.
But what are Pats going to do to stop him taking over at Dundalk tomorrow?
Nesta99
03/12/2021, 9:41 PM
If SOD is still under contract and if Pats don't accept his resignation they have then backed themselves into a corner with two managers/head coaches and their salaries now under contract, there is always a risk Dundalk could walk away from it all and appoint someone else
And thats never been done in LoI before... ironically one of the reasons Dundalk could afford to approach Stephen Kenny is that he was still getting part of his gardening leave pay from Rovers so helped soften what was step backward with the wreck the club was in after a previous owner and new owners wanting and getting their man and its was a reasonably good match up in the end - history repeating itself would be fine with me!
patsdad
03/12/2021, 9:43 PM
And I've said that compensation may have to be agreed or decided by arbitration.
But what are Pats going to do to stop him taking over at Dundalk tomorrow?
The better question is whether Dundalk would be willing to take the chance on appointing him while he’s under contract at Pats. But we’ll soon see, I have no doubt.
Nesta99
03/12/2021, 9:50 PM
Pats bought out his contract.
Is there a 14 day cooling off period for panic buys of additions to coaching teams? Almost a full 2 year contract even PT wouldnt have been small change. Now if someone had had a quiet word with Clancy and he put in his resignation from Drogheda........
Longfordian
03/12/2021, 10:27 PM
He had a clause in his contract allowing him to leave for a certain amount. €10k I think I read.
patsdad
03/12/2021, 10:36 PM
He had a clause in his contract allowing him to leave for a certain amount. €10k I think I read.
Which Pats paid, allowing him to leave.
I’m sure Pats have a figure in mind to agree O’Donnell’s release. Dundalk can either pay that now and get him announced; or announce him and end up paying damages on top of the compensation. Plus have the details of what he and they were up to in recent weeks aired in court. Their call. As I said, we’ll soon see.
Calcio Jack
03/12/2021, 10:44 PM
And thats never been done in LoI before... ironically one of the reasons Dundalk could afford to approach Stephen Kenny is that he was still getting part of his gardening leave pay from Rovers so helped soften what was step backward with the wreck the club was in after a previous owner and new owners wanting and getting their man and its was a reasonably good match up in the end - history repeating itself would be fine with me!
For the record once Kenny signed up with you , from that day Rovers ceased paying him….
Nesta99
03/12/2021, 11:46 PM
Which Pats paid, allowing him to leave.
I’m sure Pats have a figure in mind to agree O’Donnell’s release. Dundalk can either pay that now and get him announced; or announce him and end up paying damages on top of the compensation. Plus have the details of what he and they were up to in recent weeks aired in court. Their call. As I said, we’ll soon see.
So not small change to sign a PT manager. It will also cost his contract at St Pats for whatever thats worth. As has been said this will in all likelihood fizzle out and go away with some convoluted agreement with the kind of carefully worded amicable statements we have seen - usual stuff wishing each other well through gritted teeth but really just want to get it over and done with. St Pats will claim the moral victory and be facilitated to do so. Probably undisclosed fee stuff that many will claim to know and will range from token amounts from Dundalk fans to daft amounts by Pats fans. Neither will know the figure if there actually is ever one.
While it would be a pain if it goes to court then at least there will be an end to the more ludicrous stuff claimed. This type of dispute could be lobbed over to CAS by the judiciary here too if its between the clubs on compensation. It is not an expensive process in itself but the legal teams that each party would likely employ would be (all those possible trips abroad), more than any compensation involved here and there are no odds on winners with CAS, their costs are set but they dont order 'personal' cost to be payed iirc. if there are grey areas at all they tend to push things to their mediation process more these days rather than make a binding ruling straight up. The Irish football arbitrators were Gareth Farrelly and Stuart Gilhooly.....if they still are would they lean toward a former player/PFAI member/manager in a contract dispute with a club? - if its not a slam dunk, it rarely is, its rolling the dice.
Maybe the quiet party are the ones who have their ducks lined up, they have been planning things for weeks after all, others scrambling a defence and coming up with the panic contingency, a manager that Dundalk were told hands off by the club and that manager reaffirming his committment to his club publicly, with the 2 yr contract announced prior. The committment made lasted a few days when he was offered a better job.
Nesta99
03/12/2021, 11:52 PM
For the record once Kenny signed up with you , from that day Rovers ceased paying him….
Of course they did.... after a final payment amount was agreed. Clubs do at times do their due diligence and allow the decks get cleared of old baggage.
Carefully worded there too CJ, must be catching!
sbgawa
04/12/2021, 3:34 AM
Being an employee is not the same as being in a contract.
if sod is in breach of his contract (which I have no idea of)then pats can sue him.
i can’t remember the Guys name but a Chelsea player who took cocaine was sacked by them and then sued for millions .
like all these scenarios it willl be settled.
joey B
04/12/2021, 4:25 AM
Being an employee is not the same as being in a contract.
if sod is in breach of his contract (which I have no idea of)then pats can sue him.
i can’t remember the Guys name but a Chelsea player who took cocaine was sacked by them and then sued for millions .
like all these scenarios it willl be settled.
Adrian Mutu I think it was!
Nesta99
04/12/2021, 4:27 AM
Adrian Mutu probably. Makes sense that contracts are not totally pointless and so the subtle difference is between an employee and contracted eh worker.
Finlay Harp
04/12/2021, 6:53 AM
Barry McNamee has re signed for Harps. All is good in the world.
sadloserkid
04/12/2021, 7:04 AM
Mutu is still on the line to pay that money too isn't he? €17 million or so? The European Court of Human Rights was one of a few to reject his appeal. Tread carefully SOD, tread carefully. :D
Nesta99
04/12/2021, 7:55 AM
Mutu is still on the line to pay that money too isn't he? €17 million or so? The European Court of Human Rights was one of a few to reject his appeal. Tread carefully SOD, tread carefully. :D
Chelsea claimed that 17mil in 2005 and Mutu not a cent yet paid, the ECHR only threw out the umpteenth appeal in 2018. Cobh Ramblers could be double winners and Finn Harps in their new ground in that 13-16 years ;)
pineapple stu
04/12/2021, 9:07 AM
like all these scenarios it willl be settled.
This is it. Pat's clearly don't want SOD (or at least, they really shouldn't at this stage), Dundalk presumably do, so just agree compensation and be done with it. It's licensing season, so not as if Dundalk can refuse to pay any agreed sum.
You would imagine if SOD resigns and then refuses to, say, take coaching or get involved in new contracts at Pat's, then he's in breach of his contact there, so he probably is calling a bit of bluff. Can Pat's refuse to pay him while he's refusing to fulfil the terms of his contract? All nice and messy.
But much and all as SOD isn't coming out of this well at all, yeah, the best thing for everyone is just to settle and move on. And if the Dundalk board are on to him in the meantime about players, or agree they'll add a tenner a week to his contract to cover the time until the deal is agreed, probably not much Pat's can do about it.
The more interesting question is backroom staff - is SOD likely to try take Mathews from Pat's? Do either Pat's or Dundalk really care?
D24Saint
04/12/2021, 9:44 AM
This is it. Pat's clearly don't want SOD (or at least, they really shouldn't at this stage), Dundalk presumably do, so just agree compensation and be done with it. It's licensing season, so not as if Dundalk can refuse to pay any agreed sum.
You would imagine if SOD resigns and then refuses to, say, take coaching or get involved in new contracts at Pat's, then he's in breach of his contact there, so he probably is calling a bit of bluff. Can Pat's refuse to pay him while he's refusing to fulfil the terms of his contract? All nice and messy.
But much and all as SOD isn't coming out of this well at all, yeah, the best thing for everyone is just to settle and move on. And if the Dundalk board are on to him in the meantime about players, or agree they'll add a tenner a week to his contract to cover the time until the deal is agreed, probably not much Pat's can do about it.
The more interesting question is backroom staff - is SOD likely to try take Mathews from Pat's? Do either Pat's or Dundalk really care?
Mathews is or was on the board previous to taking up the job as manager last year.
pineapple stu
04/12/2021, 9:55 AM
Sounds like that'd make it less likely he'd leave alright. One less messy strand to tie up
This is it. Pat's clearly don't want SOD (or at least, they really shouldn't at this stage), Dundalk presumably do, so just agree compensation and be done with it. It's licensing season, so not as if Dundalk can refuse to pay any agreed sum.
You would imagine if SOD resigns and then refuses to, say, take coaching or get involved in new contracts at Pat's, then he's in breach of his contact there, so he probably is calling a bit of bluff. Can Pat's refuse to pay him while he's refusing to fulfil the terms of his contract? All nice and messy.
But much and all as SOD isn't coming out of this well at all, yeah, the best thing for everyone is just to settle and move on. And if the Dundalk board are on to him in the meantime about players, or agree they'll add a tenner a week to his contract to cover the time until the deal is agreed, probably not much Pat's can do about it.
The more interesting question is backroom staff - is SOD likely to try take Mathews from Pat's? Do either Pat's or Dundalk really care?
Pats most definitely don’t want O’Donnell now. The only thing left is the question of compensation. A deal will obviously be done. I wonder how Dundalk will be feeling though if SOD represented to them that he was a free agent, and that turns out not to be the case. Dundalk welcome to him in any event.
As for Alan Matthews, he is on the board, as mentioned, so unlikely to be going anywhere, not that I’d be heartbroken if he was. I don’t know if MClancy has his badges, hopefully he has, so there is no need for this fiction of who is in charge. Funniest rumour is that Staunton is part of the ticket as the “gaffer” at Dundalk. Can’t see it being true, but here’s hoping !
D24Saint
04/12/2021, 10:20 AM
Clancy is only down on linkedin as a Pro candidate but has the A licence. What's the requirement the A or the Pro ?
Nesta99
04/12/2021, 11:24 AM
Clancy is only down on linkedin as a Pro candidate but has the A licence. What's the requirement the A or the Pro ?
Once enrolled its satisfies licensingm Clancy should finish his pro license in 2022. It seems that O'Donnell is enrolled on the 2023 course but that could be just speculation that he will be on the next available course, are the FAI are currently taking applications? Its one of those quirks to licensing like having planning in for a ground satisfies some stadia criteria. It will be interesting to see how the lack of a Pro license is sorted especially if someone is added to the coaching staff - I think Mick Neville is to return to the club with the underage setup and he has a Pro licence.
If Alan Matthews is on the St Pats board then he surely is the link between player contract status and talks and the boardroom or should have been, Its possibly splitting hairs but if Dundalk acted in good faith after being told S'OD was out of contract its more likely that this info was given by the agency initially.
oriel
04/12/2021, 11:40 AM
Youre right yeah, should probably close this forum down now so.
Talking about a match after it’s over? What’s the point, it won’t change anything because Team A beat Team B.
The spire has been bombed? What’s the point in talking about it, it won’t undo the bomb
Of course fine to talk / discuss, but no point giving out / complaining, SOD clearly wanted out of St Pats and made that clear, officially gone now so that's that.
I suppose there is a worry now on out of contract players, but that's nothing new for 70% of clubs most seasons.
D24Saint
04/12/2021, 11:49 AM
Surely a courtesy call from the new Dundalk owners to our officials could have saved a lot of turmoil here. It seems they took O'Donnell's word that he was out of contract in blind faith and that was it.
Nesta99
04/12/2021, 12:42 PM
You may be right but I think Dundalk were tight on options and out of contract is out of contract. I doubt O'Donnell blatantly lied, he thought/thinks that an existing clause wasnt activated and didnt sign a new 2 year deal in september. Why offer someone a new deal anyway if you can just trigger a 2 year extension?
Reading this is like certain Harps fans logging into Companies House in the UK looking for anything on Directors and staff at Derry City.
Nesta99
04/12/2021, 1:32 PM
Reading this is like certain Harps fans logging into Companies House in the UK looking for anything on Directors and staff at Derry City.
in what way DCSIL, conspiracy stuff or the wall of silence from Oriel leading to speculation that its just a waiting game?
in what way DCSIL, conspiracy stuff or the wall of silence from Oriel leading to speculation that its just a waiting game?
Conspiracy stuff on theirs Nesta. The amount of People Pats have in the Media Circle doesn’t surprise me the way it has blown up.
Jd2793
04/12/2021, 2:32 PM
any talk of where paul doyle of ucd will end up?
pineapple stu
04/12/2021, 2:35 PM
Bohs re-sign 11 for next season already (https://bohemianfc.com/?p=17558). If there's going to be a battle between Bohs/Dundalk/Pats (and maybe Sligo) for the same players, then that's a solid start - and probably highlights that Dundalk are at a bit of a disadvantage as they're probably going to have most churn this pre-season.
Georgie Kelly not among them - could be on a 2-year-deal of course, or is there interest from elsewhere?
sbgawa
04/12/2021, 3:16 PM
No Kelly, Buckley, breslin, cornwall or surprisingly Promise O. Devoy had a year to go on his contract so can't eave until next year anyway. It's a start but its kind of the ones you'd expect wouldn't have a lot of options except maybe burt and coote, talbot
Surely a courtesy call from the new Dundalk owners to our officials could have saved a lot of turmoil here. It seems they took O'Donnell's word that he was out of contract in blind faith and that was it.
There could be something in that for sure, but that's the part which obviously needs to be confirmed, did his actual contract run down after the cup final, and was any future deal an 'option to extend' past Nov 2021, also was anything signed or was this just a verbal conversation / assumption ?
I`m sure its in everyone's interest to get all of this cleared up, Pats to get closure and Dundalk to formally announce SOD and add to the current squad of 1 senior player !
Although indications are a flurry will sign on for 2022 and beyond given the change of ownership last month and the imminent arrival of the new manager.
osarusan
04/12/2021, 4:15 PM
Treaty have signed:
Jack Brady (along with Tadhg Ryan, if he stays, that is a very well covered position)
Willie Armshaw
Marc Ludden
Jack Lynch
Good stuff so far, although there's not many on the team that other (better positioned) clubs would want to take I suppose.
Treaty add:
Callum McNamara
Red Hanlon
Matt Keane
Stephen Cristopher
Lee Devitt (from Cobh)
nigel-harps1954
04/12/2021, 4:27 PM
Reading this is like certain Harps fans logging into Companies House in the UK looking for anything on Directors and staff at Derry City.
I shouldn't, but I'd love an explanation on this one.
patsdad
04/12/2021, 4:30 PM
There could be something in that for sure, but that's the part which obviously needs to be confirmed, did his actual contract run down after the cup final, and was any future deal an 'option to extend' past Nov 2021, also was anything signed or was this just a verbal conversation / assumption ?
I`m sure its in everyone's interest to get all of this cleared up, Pats to get closure and Dundalk to formally announce SOD and add to the current squad of 1 senior player !
Although indications are a flurry will sign on for 2022 and beyond given the change of ownership last month and the imminent arrival of the new manager.
Just curious - if someone's contract had run down why do you think they'd feel it necessary to "resign"?
D24Saint
04/12/2021, 4:40 PM
It will be interesting to see how the whole thing plays out. I’d say regular fans like us will never find out the whole details. If Dundalk appoint the individual next week then they and him are in the opinion that they are in clear/right on the matter. If he isn’t appointed soon then murkier waters start to appear for Dundalk and himself. It will suit our ends to drag the thing out until after Christmas at least if it appears his contract extension is valid and legal.
Northsider
04/12/2021, 4:40 PM
Devoy had a year to go on his contract so can't eave until next year anyway.
Nonsense. You said a while ago he was signing for Shams, now this.
Why do you make stuff up like this and post it on a public forum? What do you hope to achieve with all this bluffing?
I shouldn't
No, you shouldn’t really.
sbgawa
04/12/2021, 5:11 PM
Nonsense. You said a while ago he was signing for Shams, now this.
Why do you make stuff up like this and post it on a public forum? What do you hope to achieve with all this bluffing?
I heard he was signing and then that he wasn't as he had a year to go on his contract...
If I'm wrong fair enough but I don't think I am in terms of him having another year as the reason he is staying.
It is a discussion forum by the way that allows for speculation
Nesta99
04/12/2021, 5:17 PM
Just curious - if someone's contract had run down why do you think they'd feel it necessary to "resign"?
Smoothing things out for St Pats owner and CEO because he doesnt want to burn bridges with those he has built up a rapport with? Maybe the contract included a 'be nice' clause!
ashbournebohs
04/12/2021, 5:34 PM
No Kelly, Buckley, breslin, cornwall or surprisingly Promise O. Devoy had a year to go on his contract so can't eave until next year anyway. It's a start but its kind of the ones you'd expect wouldn't have a lot of options except maybe burt and coote, talbot
Devoy signed a new improved contract a few weeks ago
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