2022 Season, Arrivals and Departures

[desaintsno.12]

Joking aside, when it comes to sustainability a lot of companies (not just Pat's obviously) are bleating about the great things they're doing and keeping shtum about the bad things they're doing (and flying long-haul is actually up there in terms of the worst things an individual can do for the environment).

Unfortunately any benefit out of making your jersey out of recycled plastic or whatever it was is going to be dwarfed by this, and so while we keep collectively burying our heads in the sand about negative impacts, then climate change will continue apace.

If Pat's are going to pat themselves on the back for sustainability over their jerseys, I think it's worth calling things like them out for this. Bit of balance never hurt.

what a silly argument.

If you drive a car, dont bother recycling.

[Neish]

Carrillo comes in with a half decent bit of pedigree too. Most of his career in the Spanish third tier, and the last four years in the Slovakian premier. Played with FC Senica last season, same club as Kris Twardek is after joining Bohs from, as Joey said.

It'll be interesting to see how he adjusts to the LOI, the Donegal weather, and picking up the language, as I understand his English isn't too great.

Sure we'll learn him English good in Ballybofey, he will always mind it

[pineapple stu]

I know that better than most as I have worked professionally on climate change issues. There is no disagreement from me that emissions have to be reduced drastically in aviation just as in road transport, agriculture etc. That doesn’t mean you have no long-haul travel, no more than it means you have no trucks and no cows. People flying from one country to another to further their career or help others further theirs is not the type of travel that anyone wants to prevent. I go back to the question implied in my first post. Are you opposed to Asian medical students coming to Ireland?
I didn't say that you can't have any long-haul travel. And of course I agree that there are other factors in climate change. (Aviation emissions are estimated at 4-5% of the total impact of climate change, so while it's relatively small compared to, say, agriculture, it's not insignificant and the challenge from the UN is to reduce carbon emissions by 50% in the next ten years.)

So for Pat's to be patting themselves on the back over a sustainable new kit, and then go flying people half way around the world to scout some Pakistani teenagers for the privilege of joining Pat's U19 team, is clearly worth calling out. Are you telling me that that's a level of football that simply isn't available in Pakistan? The issues of underage transfers abroad have dogged Irish football for decades - both in terms of the players themselves and the league - and I'd say there's a strong argument that flying teenagers half way around the world to join the Pat's 19s really is the sort of transport that we should be looking to prevent.

The issue of Asian medical students is tangential - primarily because they at least are on a solid professional path, whereas teenage footballers aren't, and really the idea of comparing some speculative scouting trips to Pakistan with medical student exchanges is daft to start off with - but the overall impact of large-scale emigration still isn't as clear-cut as you make out, partly because of the brain drain impact on the countries these people are leaving, which nobody seems to care about. Brain drain afflicted Ireland for decades, of course, so we should know about it; it makes it really hard for a developing country to grow its economy. So the gap between the rich and the poor economies in the world will continue to grow, the movement of people will continue to increase, and airline emissions continue to rise as more and more people take long-haul flights that they simply wouldn't have taken 10/20 years ago. Is that a good thing? It's why I said the bigger picture trumps people's individual "rights". (If you want to limit to just studying, then the lesson of the past two years is that increasingly remote study is a very real option if Asian colleges aren't good enough)

You can compare it to club football in a way - increased freedom of travel since 92 in particular has led to far less competitiveness and far more concentrated wealth across European football, to the extent now that even the Champions League seems to be broken and utterly predictable. Yes, some professional Asian footballers get a chance to forward their careers in Europe (partly because that same freedom of travel has made their own leagues irrelevant), but is the bigger picture worth it? The point you've put across is way too simplistic, in my view.

[pineapple stu]

what a silly argument.

If you drive a car, dont bother recycling.
It is a silly argument.

Fortunately, it's not remotely the argument I put across.

[Martinho II]

To change the subject a bit we have signed from Shamrock Rovers Dean McMenamy on loan for the coming season. For all the shamrock rovers fans that are posters here is he any good as I have never heard of him before?

https://ltfc.ie/2022/01/dean-mcmenamy-joins-on-loan/

[sbgawa]

With all the lockdown stuff I didn't get to many of the underage games but judging him off the few appearances for the first team he looks a decent player. There are lots of good players in the underage so just making it to the first team is a big vote for the kid. Hopefully he does well for you.

[mcgonigle]

Hopefully Kerr stays there, some dose these days

[John83]

what a silly argument.

If you drive a car, dont bother recycling.
What a silly analogy. Perhaps a little close to what he said was: if you brag loudly about recycling and then make unnecessary short trips in humvee, you look like a buffoon.

[D24Saint]

Hopefully Kerr stays there, some dose these days

That's very islamabad of you.

[patsdad]

So for Pat's to be patting themselves on the back over a sustainable new kit, and then go flying people half way around the world to scout some Pakistani teenagers for the privilege of joining Pat's U19 team, is clearly worth calling out. Are you telling me that that's a level of football that simply isn't available in Pakistan? The issues of underage transfers abroad have dogged Irish football for decades - both in terms of the players themselves and the league - and I'd say there's a strong argument that flying teenagers half way around the world to join the Pat's 19s really is the sort of transport that we should be looking to prevent.

The issue of Asian medical students is tangential - primarily because they at least are on a solid professional path, whereas teenage footballers aren't, and really the idea of comparing some speculative scouting trips to Pakistan with medical student exchanges is daft to start off with - but the overall impact of large-scale emigration still isn't as clear-cut as you make out, partly because of the brain drain impact on the countries these people are leaving, which nobody seems to care about. Brain drain afflicted Ireland for decades, of course, so we should know about it; it makes it really hard for a developing country to grow its economy. So the gap between the rich and the poor economies in the world will continue to grow, the movement of people will continue to increase, and airline emissions continue to rise as more and more people take long-haul flights that they simply wouldn't have taken 10/20 years ago. Is that a good thing? It's why I said the bigger picture trumps people's individual "rights". (If you want to limit to just studying, then the lesson of the past two years is that increasingly remote study is a very real option if Asian colleges aren't good enough)

You can compare it to club football in a way - increased freedom of travel since 92 in particular has led to far less competitiveness and far more concentrated wealth across European football, to the extent now that even the Champions League seems to be broken and utterly predictable. Yes, some professional Asian footballers get a chance to forward their careers in Europe (partly because that same freedom of travel has made their own leagues irrelevant), but is the bigger picture worth it? The point you've put across is way too simplistic, in my view.

I appreciate you probably didn’t watch the press conference or read the detailed press release. This is a project originated by the Pakistani Government as part of a strategy to raise the standard of their game. The number of people who will be involved is small - 4 coaches now, and about 20 Pakistani players over 3 years. St Pats were approached because these kids would have a better chance of doing well by starting in an Irish club rather than an English one and the standard of our academy is known to be very high. It’s a honour for St Pats to be asked to do this, it will help us build links with the Pakistani community here (most of whom live in our catchment) and if we end up finding a player who can go on to have a good career, all the better. It’s basically a good news story and to try and turn it into a story about a tiny number of flights is, frankly, petty in the extreme.

I have to say I’m very surprised because over the years I’ve found you to be one of the most sensible and balanced posters on this forum. But I really feel you’ve got the wrong end of the stick here.

[sullanefc]

I have to say I’m very surprised because over the years I’ve found you to be one of the most sensible and balanced posters on this forum.

Ha. Lol.

[sadloserkid]

"Limerick FC announce partnership with Mongolian FF" https://www.limerickpost.ie/2017/06/30/limerick-fc-announce-partnership-mongolian-ff/ - The PatsKistan story reminds me of this, one of POS' more exotic efforts.

[DCSIL]

LOI clubs sustainability efforts probably warrants a new thread.

Derry recycle old Dundalk Players
Dundalk recycle old Pats Players
Bray Recycle old Cabo Players
Longford Recycle old Bray/Shels players
Drogheda Recycle old Shels players

Bohs have a climate justice officer
Shels are planting Trees in a forest
Pats are now sending out Solicitors Emails instead of Solicitors Letters

[sbgawa]

LOI clubs sustainability efforts probably warrants a new thread.

Derry recycle old Dundalk Players
Dundalk recycle old Pats Players
Bray Recycle old Cabo Players
Longford Recycle old Bray/Shels players
Drogheda Recycle old Shels players

Bohs have a climate justice officer
Shels are planting Trees in a forest
Pats are now sending out Solicitors Emails instead of Solicitors Letters


We are literally called after a plant, play in Green

[DCSIL]

We are literally called after a plant, play in Green

Signed Aaron Greene…

[Longfordian]

LOI clubs sustainability efforts probably warrants a new thread.

Derry recycle old Dundalk Players
Dundalk recycle old Pats Players
Bray Recycle old Cabo Players
Longford Recycle old Bray/Shels players
Drogheda Recycle old Shels players

Bohs have a climate justice officer
Shels are planting Trees in a forest
Pats are now sending out Solicitors Emails instead of Solicitors Letters

We help grow little Shamrocks too.

[D24Saint]

I do think LOI clubs are ahead of the curve on this issue. Many have withdrawn toilet paper for years now and recommended that fans use more sustainable solutions.

[pineapple stu]

I appreciate you probably didn’t watch the press conference or read the detailed press release. This is a project originated by the Pakistani Government as part of a strategy to raise the standard of their game.
Doesn't really make it any less subject to criticism when Pat's are waving the sustainability stick about their jersey.

If you want to help the game in Pakistan, why not help invest in better facilities there? After all, that would help far more players and over a far longer stretch of time. (You might even say it's sustainable). There's something rather colonial-era about the idea that Pat's are nobly rescuing the natives from drudgery and giving them an exciting career opportunity with St Pat's U19s, and if you can make some money off it, all the better.

[2 Year Contract]

Doesn't really make it any less subject to criticism when Pat's are waving the sustainability stick about their jersey.

If you want to help the game in Pakistan, why not help invest in better facilities there? After all, that would help far more players and over a far longer stretch of time. (You might even say it's sustainable). There's something rather colonial-era about the idea that Pat's are nobly rescuing the natives from drudgery and giving them an exciting career opportunity with St Pat's U19s, and if you can make some money off it, all the better.

It’s mad that one single tweet mentioning the 2022 jerseys will be the most sustainable ones to date has got you this wound up, it’s hardly being broadcasted to the national media every day. Also Umbro are the ones who decided what materials to use to make the jerseys from not pats. And I’m sure Umbro asked for their efforts to be highlighted by the clubs when revealing the jerseys as both pats and Waterford did for them.

On the topic of Waterford's new jersey reveal mentioning the sustainable materials Umbro used on their jersey, wait until you hear about how their owner commutes to their games back and forth from England on an plane. What an outrage! He should be living in a bamboo hut behind the goal at the RSC if he wants to go to their games

As for improving the footballing facilities in Pakistan, that will be happening as part of the plan. A 10 million dollar stadium being the first step in regards that. It'd probably be best to actually fully take in all the details of the partnership before preaching via several essay long posts about how awful it is that there’s a flight involved :)

[LOI101]

LOI clubs sustainability efforts probably warrants a new thread.

Derry recycle old Dundalk Players
Dundalk recycle old Pats Players
Bray Recycle old Cabo Players
Longford Recycle old Bray/Shels players
Drogheda Recycle old Shels players

Bohs have a climate justice officer
Shels are planting Trees in a forest
Pats are now sending out Solicitors Emails instead of Solicitors Letters

Five Dublin clubs reduces the carbon footprint of the premier division...

[D24Saint]

If you want to help the game in Pakistan, why not help invest in better facilities there?

We are only a small part of the project. The company Global Soccer Ventures seems to have the government's backing are building a twelve million dollar stadium project. I'm not going to pretend to be an instant expert on Pakistan and would be a bit cynical that the project will have any long term benefits for our club but find some of the counter arguments a bit ott. Its good to see the club involved in big projects like this. I don't go along with the anti environmental talk , people live in the real world not a tree huggers paradise. Its better to make a bit of an effort rather than none at all. If someone goes to fill the bottle bank in a diesel car is it still not better than dumping them in the regular bins for example.

[sbgawa]

I'm actually sick to my back teeth of all the posturing from all sections of society on the Green issue.
The vast majority of companies making these gestures couldn't give a fiddlers about the Environment but know that to appeal to the youth audience pretending to be green with token efforts will look good.
Its broadly typical of society in general. I would love to see Pats offer two jerseys one sustainable and one normal one for a tenner less and see what happened...I've no problem with Pats btw they are just like every other greenwashing company and fair play to their Marketing guy for throwing BS at the gullible, Rovers will probably be next
Rant over:mad: BAH HUMBUG

[EAFC_rdfl]

LOI clubs sustainability efforts probably warrants a new thread.

Derry recycle old Dundalk Players
Dundalk recycle old Pats Players
Bray Recycle old Cabo Players
Longford Recycle old Bray/Shels players
Drogheda Recycle old Shels players

Bohs have a climate justice officer
Shels are planting Trees in a forest
Pats are now sending out Solicitors Emails instead of Solicitors Letters

Harps - Ollie wearing recycled shorts and jerseys from all sorts of other clubs and sports.

[pineapple stu]

Its good to see the club involved in big projects like this. Its better to make a bit of an effort rather than none at all.
When you say "make an effort" - at what exactly? Football has a fairly dodgy reputation in terms of targetting young players and moving them around the world with great promises, and then dropping most of them when they don't make the grade. We know this from experience of Irish football. To be honest, this sounds quite similar and I wonder how beneficial it'd really be for Pakistani youngsters.

But that aside - because that's cynical speculation on my part, though cynical often works well in football - I just think when any organisation uses sustainability as a marketing tool when it suits them, and ignores it at other times, they deserve to be called up on it. That's all.

[pineapple stu]

I'm actually sick to my back teeth of all the posturing from all sections of society on the Green issue.
The vast majority of companies making these gestures couldn't give a fiddlers about the Environment but know that to appeal to the youth audience pretending to be green with token efforts will look good.
I was at a seminar on ESG (environmental and social governance) reporting last month; there's moves to have it included in companies' financial statements. There's definitely merit in the idea, but the first speaker pointed out that of 100+ large company statements sampled, every single one of them was bull****. There were degrees of bull****, sure, but not one of the companies was actually doing anything like what they claimed they were doing. Pat's certainly aren't unique in this at all.

So yeah, agree with you on that - but then it is something that we as a society are going have to properly address sooner or later. And the sooner, the better. I don't think anyone can really argue against that.

[joey B]

Dundalk signed Nathan Shepperd a keeper from Brentford,involved with the Wales u21 set up aswell,might be a bit of a coup for them that one…

[CraftyToePoke]

"Limerick FC announce partnership with Mongolian FF" https://www.limerickpost.ie/2017/06/30/limerick-fc-announce-partnership-mongolian-ff/ - The PatsKistan story reminds me of this, one of POS' more exotic efforts.

Did he announce it from the gold chair out in Bruff ? :)

[sadloserkid]

Did he announce it from the gold chair out in Bruff ? :)

The Kennedy Suites? A more garish, tasteless exercise in tacky gaudiness can rarely have been seen on the island! :)

[CraftyToePoke]

The Kennedy Suites? A more garish, tasteless exercise in tacky gaudiness can rarely have been seen on the island! :)

Ah I dunno, it had a certain third world dictator who doesn't have long left to live kinda chic vibe to it :)

[2 Year Contract]

Eoin Doyle confirmed by Pats. Kelleher flew him straight to Pakistan on a private jet to sign the contract. Another private jet will take him back to Dublin tomorrow for training

[DCSIL]

Eoin Doyle to Pats confirmed, hope he came on the Heysham or Holyhead Ferry.

2JC got in ahead of me

[joey B]

Good signing for Pats,might keep them in touch with Rovers and Derry but still hard to see them winning it…..

[patsdad]

Good signing for Pats,might keep them in touch with Rovers and Derry but still hard to see them winning it…..
Bookies have us third favourite at 13/2 and that’s probably realistic. Depending on the keeper and right back still to be announced, those odds might shorten a bit.

[Jack B]

We need at least 4/5 more to be realistically talking about winning the league I'd say, not to sound dramatic but we're just really lacking depth in everywhere but the forward positions. Still plenty of time though and I like how we're shaping up, seems as though it's a waiting game for a few players in the UK to get out of their contracts.

Doyle is a big one anyway, not sure how it'll work with us having 4 strikers and several wingers in the squad already but that's Tim Clancy's problem.

[TonyD]

We need at least 4/5 more to be realistically talking about winning the league I'd say, not to sound dramatic but we're just really lacking depth in everywhere but the forward positions.
Doyle is a big one anyway, not sure how it'll work with us having 4 strikers and several wingers in the squad already but that's Tim Clancy's problem.

A nice problem to have. I agree that we are a bit light at the back and in the middle, but can’t complain with any of the signings we’ve made so far. Goalie, Right Back, maybe another centre half and a centre mid. With those four positions covered I’d be very happy.

[Jd2793]

doyle even tho hes nearing 34 is still a very good signing should be giving pats 18-20 a season no bother to him, 3 year deal is fair steep mind you. How clancy lines up will be interesting, as ye have mentioned lots of forward players and there isnt space for all of them. didnt really get the coughlan re-signing myself. gk and another cb i think pats will be good to go. ben mccormack will play a good bit this season i reckon, cracking player when hes fit.

[oriel]

Bookies have us third favourite at 13/2 and that’s probably realistic. Depending on the keeper and right back still to be announced, those odds might shorten a bit.

Think this is from Boyle Sports, they have it as this:

Rovers - 4/7
Derry - 3/1
Pats - 13/2
DFC - 8/1
Bohs - 12/1
Sligo - 12/1
Shels - 25/1
Drogs - 66/1
FH - 150/1
UCD -150/1

I think a bit harsh on Sligo that price as they finished 3rd last season, lost Kenny but not too many others, possibly a bit generous on us too, but 4th was my abs max expectation this season.

Still 3 or 4 new players to come.

Looks a decent GK for us today from Wales, u21 caps, then again this time last year it was Abibi, christ still not fully over that.

Good signing that today for Pats, will certainly boost them.

[Jack B]

A nice problem to have. I agree that we are a bit light at the back and in the middle, but can’t complain with any of the signings we’ve made so far. Goalie, Right Back, maybe another centre half and a centre mid. With those four positions covered I’d be very happy.

Yeah definitely no complaints, sure this time last year folk were panicking about the state we were in and look how they turned out.

Think 2 midfielders are probably needed personally considering Lewis and Benson are gone, leaving Forrester, Lennon and a few (albeit talented) kids. Agree though, keeper and right back definitely the priority given they're starting XI positions yet to be filled.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Think this is from Boyle Sports, they have it as this:

Rovers - 4/7
Derry - 3/1
Pats - 13/2
DFC - 8/1
Bohs - 12/1
Sligo - 12/1
Shels - 25/1
Drogs - 66/1
FH - 150/1
UCD -150/1

I think a bit harsh on Sligo that price as they finished 3rd last season, lost Kenny but not too many others, possibly a bit generous on us too, but 4th was my abs max expectation this season.

Still 3 or 4 new players to come.

Looks a decent GK for us today from Wales, u21 caps, then again this time last year it was Abibi, christ still not fully over that.

Good signing that today for Pats, will certainly boost them.

Weve no one to score a goal at the moment

[patsdad]

Yeah definitely no complaints, sure this time last year folk were panicking about the state we were in and look how they turned out.

Think 2 midfielders are probably needed personally considering Lewis and Benson are gone, leaving Forrester, Lennon and a few (albeit talented) kids. Agree though, keeper and right back definitely the priority given they're starting XI positions yet to be filled.


With the amount of forwards signed I reckon we’re looking at a 4-2-1-3 with the likes of King or Coughlan playing behind the striker. So one more midfielder to compete with McCormack and Corbally as back-up to Lennon and Forrester.

[Jack B]

With the amount of forwards signed I reckon we’re looking at a 4-2-1-3 with the likes of King or Coughlan playing behind the striker. So one more midfielder to compete with McCormack and Corbally as back-up to Lennon and Forrester.

Maybe, McCormack himself is the type of player that plays in that 1 himself though. Certainly not his natural game to be in that deeper role. Think he could have a big season in any case if he has good luck with injuries.

[Knocklyonhoop]

Think this is from Boyle Sports, they have it as this:

Rovers - 4/7
Derry - 3/1
Pats - 13/2
DFC - 8/1
Bohs - 12/1
Sligo - 12/1
Shels - 25/1
Drogs - 66/1
FH - 150/1
UCD -150/1

I think a bit harsh on Sligo that price as they finished 3rd last season, lost Kenny but not too many others, possibly a bit generous on us too, but 4th was my abs max expectation this season.

Still 3 or 4 new players to come.

Looks a decent GK for us today from Wales, u21 caps, then again this time last year it was Abibi, christ still not fully over that.

Good signing that today for Pats, will certainly boost them.

as of now, other than having a fit Bolger is there any upgrade for `Sligo? No Kenny.

don’t see them as top 5 meself and 12/1 short for me. Would put them maybe 50s

[sullanefc]

It’s mad that one single tweet mentioning the 2022 jerseys will be the most sustainable ones to date has got you this wound up, it’s hardly being broadcasted to the national media every day. Also Umbro are the ones who decided what materials to use to make the jerseys from not pats. And I’m sure Umbro asked for their efforts to be highlighted by the clubs when revealing the jerseys as both pats and Waterford did for them.

On the topic of Waterford's new jersey reveal mentioning the sustainable materials Umbro used on their jersey, wait until you hear about how their owner commutes to their games back and forth from England on an plane. What an outrage! He should be living in a bamboo hut behind the goal at the RSC if he wants to go to their games

As for improving the footballing facilities in Pakistan, that will be happening as part of the plan. A 10 million dollar stadium being the first step in regards that. It'd probably be best to actually fully take in all the details of the partnership before preaching via several essay long posts about how awful it is that there’s a flight involved :)
Zing!!! Lol

[oriel]

as of now, other than having a fit Bolger is there any upgrade for `Sligo? No Kenny.

don’t see them as top 5 meself and 12/1 short for me. Would put them maybe 50s

Doesn't seem to be much expectation about Sligo this season, maybe it was more about the standard last year, they took virtually all of the summer off, still finished 3rd?

Even though it was never going to happen, Dundalk at one point had 'a chance' of finishing 4th, but 6th was a fair reflection on the season, we were in 8th for 3 weeks I think, possibly 9th also for 2 weeks.

Sligo lads, who is your hope for scoring goals then with Kenny gone, surely the club will spend to replace given you are in europe?

[joey B]

Johnny Kenny confirmed to Celtic on a 5 year deal..

[D24Saint]

Johnny Kenny confirmed to Celtic on a 5 year deal..

Good move for the lad pity Sligo didn’t see more out of the deal.

[pineapple stu]

A 5-year deal is great for him. I know he had a good year at Sligo, but that's a great deal he's got for himself

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Doesn't seem to be much expectation about Sligo this season, maybe it was more about the standard last year, they took virtually all of the summer off, still finished 3rd?

Even though it was never going to happen, Dundalk at one point had 'a chance' of finishing 4th, but 6th was a fair reflection on the season, we were in 8th for 3 weeks I think, possibly 9th also for 2 weeks.

Sligo lads, who is your hope for scoring goals then with Kenny gone, surely the club will spend to replace given you are in europe?

No hope at the moment but there has to be people brought in up front as Kenny, Romeo, Wright, DeVries and Walter are all gone

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Good move for the lad pity Sligo didn’t see more out of the deal.

If he progresses it’ll be a decent deal for us with add ons but a big IF I suppose

[Neish]

Good move for the lad pity Sligo didn’t see more out of the deal.

Not so sure its a good move.
Doubt he'll get into the first team much this season? No reserves league in Scotland which means he will be in the youth teams. Would develop his game more with another season or two of senior football in LOI