Stephen Kenny

[pineapple stu]

"Our best Nations League campaign" is not a ringing endorsement in fairness. The last ten minutes against Armenia we lost all composure when a goal for them would have meant relegation. Armenia were not a good side (as evidenced by Scotland/Ukraine thumping them)

[Razors left peg]

"Our best Nations League campaign" is not a ringing endorsement in fairness. The last ten minutes against Armenia we lost all composure when a goal for them would have meant relegation. Armenia were not a good side (as evidenced by Scotland/Ukraine thumping them)

We were crap at times, but we also were very good at home to Scotland and in the "away" game to Ukraine. I did also say that it shows how bad we have been when that was our best, but its in response to a poster who seems to think that we were good under previous managers recently.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

So ask yourself this. Why did fans want Kerr to leave and not Kenny?

The team Kerr had was infinitely superior to what Kenny has. Do you not think that the reason for the difference on why fans were happy to give Kenny more time compared to Kerr is because most are aware of the massive rebuild job that was needed. I know you dont agree with the rebuilding narrative, but that doesnt make you right. The vast majority of match going fans do think that way and we have seen a virtual full u21 team come into the seniors in last couple years. I think your idea that its a media driven popularity for Kenny is utter boll!x and fans who go to games are well capable of making up their own mind.

Just to pick up on one thing you said there about Kenny having 2 poor Nations League campaigns.... I think Im right in saying the last one was our best ever under any manager? It shows how crap we have actually been, but we actually scored goals and performed pretty well in some games which is more than we ever did before. I dont know if thats a sign of things improving over all or not, and well find out pretty soon if any progress has been made.

I do suspect that this qualifying has come 2 years too soon for the bunch of players we have coming through and in the squad now so I think that it'll be a different manager in charge when the next world cup qualifying comes around. I do know that the fans will be out in force in a couple of weeks time and if we happen to get a result against France Kenny name will be sang loudly.

Well it wasn't a rebuild. The teams he picked are there for all to see. It takes opinion out of it. There was no talk of building for 2024 until after the Luxembourg defeat. The media ran with it and the influence of the media in how fans react can't be underestimated. For a couple of decades, many supporters got their opinions off Giles or Dunphy.

I don't know if you're being serious with the Nation's League thing? "I think Im right in saying the last one was our best ever under any manager?". Haven't we only had 3 Nations League campaigns? And Kenny was in charge for 2 of them. The other one was when O Neill had lost the dressing room and then got sacked. Honestly, sometimes you just have to laugh at the defence put up for Kenny.

We have a really good mix of youth and experience in the squad, as we've had for the last 2 years. I think they've been let down badly by poor management but I'll be roaring them on against France. Some people forget that the players are the priority, not a manager you've backed.

[John83]

I think Dunphy's retirement has helped Kenny. He'd be laying into him on TV every match (like he laid into far better) and it'd tilt the discussion a bit. The current crop are very civilised in comparison.

[tetsujin1979]

Tets, while I don't disagree with the contention that fans are not turning up in consistent numbers because of Kenny, but perhaps a better point is that fans are not staying away because of Kenny either - which has happened under every manager since Mick V1.0 towards the end of their tenures, which probably accelerated their removals along with crowd reactions. While a lot of fans may complain about results there has not been anything like the booing that could be heard towards the end of Trap and MoN.I know, and I wasn't saying that there was anything like what was heard under the previous two managers, just noting that at the end of the last two games, there was audible booing, which I haven't heard at any game under Kenny so far.


I dont know the stats off the top of my head, Tets maybe you can help, but theres something about us now scoring a lot more goals under Kenny than in previous years, maybe it was in Nations League or something?
not sure exactly what you're looking for
Here's the goals scored since 2010


Year
Games
Goals
Goals per Game



2010
9
13
1.44


2011
14
26
1.86


2012
12
14
1.17


2013
14
19
1.36


2014
11
20
1.82


2015
9
12
1.33


2016
13
19
1.46


2017
11
10
0.91


2018
9
4
0.44


2019
10
13
1.30


2020
8
1
0.13


2021
12
20
1.67


2022
10
13
1.30

[mypost]

Only one game in the last 12 months has been near sold out

Also, there was audible booing at the end of the last two games


Isn't the point of debate to do exactly that?

It's not wanting rid of him for "only winning a game 3-2", it's for needing a last minute penalty to win a game 3-2 at home, after leading 2-0 with twenty minutes to go against a team that had only scored twice in their last five competitive games(none away from home), and had conceded five goals three days earlier without reply
It's not wanting rid of him because "he made a sub in a friendly his team won", it's because he left a promising player on the bench, wasting an excellent opportunity to give him his first cap to give an established player his 77th

The team in second also qualifies for the finals. If France win their first two games, we'll be three points behind the Netherlands, assuming they beat Gibraltar in their second game, leaving us three points behind qualification, with a game in hand.

I know what the criteria is, thanks. I also know that all those teams will have a game in hand on us on the last night, and that will be decisive if it comes down to it.

It really doesn't matter whether he made subs in Malta or scored in the last minute against Armenia. The demand was that we win the game. We won the game, so that is the end of the discussion. Or should have been.

Crowds have been very high for a manager that apparantly, the majority think was a mistake. I didn't hear any booing at the Armenia game. What I did hear after the game, was singing and dancing to a song by a washed up one hit wonder from Italy in 1997.

The point of debate here is not to change opinions. You can't change opinions that don't want to change. All you can do is put forward your arguments and defend them when challenged.


That is the weird part. supporters were still singing Kenny's name while losing to Luxembourg.

Is it because he was a former LOI manager? Because he supposedly plays football in the 'right' way? Majority of fans are easily swayed by whatever the media says? I think it might be a combination of a few of those things. Whatever it is, I find it incredible. Statistically one of our worst ever managers, repeated failures, driving us down the rankings, making it far more difficult to qualify for major tournaments, yet he still has a fervent and vocal following. I doubt many other managers with his record would have lasted this long. It's baffling!

And that's why you don't get it. And because you don't get it, you don't want anyone else to get it either.

For you, it's all about winning matches, and qualifying for tournaments, and statistics. For those who back him, it's all about progress and bringing through new players and playing a style of football where we play the ball on the floor and we have more attacking weapons available than Duffy's head.

Sure, you can qualify for tournaments, but that's not necessarily a sign of progress if you're embarrassed when you get there. Nobody was singing his name after the Luxembourg game, not the home one anyway, because there was nobody there. I know you don't believe us but this team isn't capable of getting to tournaments right now You tell us how great it was that Slovakia got to the last Euros. You don't say that Spain kicked them out of it 5-0. If that's what you want this team to do, fair enough, but it's not in the best interests of Irish football.


I think Dunphy's retirement has helped Kenny. He'd be laying into him on TV every match (like he laid into far better) and it'd tilt the discussion a bit.

No he wouldn't. He's one of his biggest backers in the media, because he plays the style of play that Dunphy wants us to play.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

And that's why you don't get it. And because you don't get it, you don't want anyone else to get it either.

For you, it's all about winning matches, and qualifying for tournaments, and statistics. For those who back him, it's all about progress and bringing through new players and playing a style if football where we play the ball on the floor and we have more attacking weapons than Duffy's head.

Sure, you can qualify for tournaments, but that's not necessarily a sign of progress if you're embarrassed when you get there. Nobody was singing his name after the Luxembourg game, not the home one anyway, because there was nobody there. I know you don't believe us but this team isn't capable of getting to tournaments right now You tell us how great it was that Slovakia got to the last Euros. You don't say that Spain kicked them out of it 5-0. If that's what you want this team to do, fair enough, but it's not in the best interests of Irish football.



No he wouldn't. He's one of his biggest backers in the media.

Of course it's all about winning matches and qualifying for tournaments! What's the alternative? Wanting us to lose matches and not qualify for tournaments? This is the kind of crazy talk that surrounds the Kenny reign.

My point was that Slovakia weren't a great team and you've just backed that up. Plus they were missing key players, it was a great opportunity for Kenny but he blew it. It would have been amazing to get to Euro 2020 and we didn't embarrass ourselves at our last major tournament.

We were close to qualifying before Kenny arrived and that was with an outdated manager. Imagine if a good manager came in at that stage? They would have had an experienced squad available to them and all these youngsters added to it. We would have qualified for Euro 2020. Gave the World Cup qualification a good go and be in a much stronger position now. Instead look at us. The Kenny reign has set us back years. You talk about progress but there has been none. We're in a far worse position now than when he took over. We need a competent manager to come in and turn things around. These players deserve far better and they're not hopeless like Kenny and his supporters like to make out.

[lofty9]

I think Dunphy's retirement has helped Kenny. He'd be laying into him on TV every match (like he laid into far better) and it'd tilt the discussion a bit. The current crop are very civilised in comparison.

In print and on podcasts Dunphy has been very light on Kenny, seems to have thrown his support behind him. Brian Kerr and Richard Dunne have been quite vocal on TV, Brian in particular has been scathing.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

In print and on podcasts Dunphy has been very light on Kenny, seems to have thrown his support behind him. Brian Kerr and Richard Dunne have been quite vocal on TV, Brian in particular has been scathing.

RTÉ pundits have been very lenient towards him, in fact, overly positive given what has been served up. It can't be denied that the reaction on there has an influence over the general viewer.

[texidub]

These players deserve far better and they're not hopeless like Kenny and his supporters like to make out.

These players are getting their game for Ireland in the context of Ireland changing its style to something more fluid - it doesn't get better in terms of showing belief in the players. I'm 'meh' about Kenny, and wouldn't complain if a replacement was found, but in fairness to him, he hasn't been talking the players down or saying they are hopeless.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

These players are getting their game for Ireland in the context of Ireland changing its style to something more fluid - it doesn't get better in terms of showing belief in the players. I'm 'meh' about Kenny, and wouldn't complain if a replacement was found, but in fairness to him, he hasn't been talking the players down or saying they are hopeless.

Stephen Kenny:

“With Portugal and Serbia in the group, and the spine of the last campaign being ripped out of the group, did anyone think we were favourites to qualify or that we should qualify?"

And a typical Kenny supporter quote taken from this page:

"I know you don't believe us but this team isn't capable of getting to tournaments right now"

[mypost]

And yet there are people like you tearing into him because he pushed the boat out, by saying he wanted to win the NL group. He can't win with you lot, all you want is that he's sacked, so we can get back to hoofball and Duffy's head asap. And still failing to qualify.


Of course it's all about winning matches and qualifying for tournaments! What's the alternative? Wanting us to lose matches and not qualify for tournaments? This is the kind of crazy talk that surrounds the Kenny reign.

My point was that Slovakia weren't a great team and you've just backed that up. Plus they were missing key players, it was a great opportunity for Kenny but he blew it. It would have been amazing to get to Euro 2020 and we didn't embarrass ourselves at our last major tournament.

We were close to qualifying before Kenny arrived and that was with an outdated manager. Imagine if a good manager came in at that stage? They would have had an experienced squad available to them and all these youngsters added to it. We would have qualified for Euro 2020. Gave the World Cup qualification a good go and be in a much stronger position now. Instead look at us. The Kenny reign has set us back years. You talk about progress but there has been none. We're in a far worse position now than when he took over. We need a competent manager to come in and turn things around. These players deserve far better and they're not hopeless like Kenny and his supporters like to make out.

Slovakia are not a great side, but they're still better than us. Whatever the great opportunity for us to qualify was, no Irish manager has ever won in Slovakia. The game finished as a draw like all the others out there. Only those with an agenda would blame a manager for players missing penalties. Of course if Mick was a competent manager, we wouldn't have even needed to go out there in the first place.

I've posted what the alternative is in the last post. If you can't read it properly, you can't be helped.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

And yet there are people like you tearing into him because he pushed the boat out, by saying he wanted to win the NL group. He can't win with you lot, all you want is that he's sacked, so we can get back to hoofball and Duffy's head asap. And still failing to qualify.



Slovakia are not a great side, but they're still better than us. Whatever the great opportunity for us to qualify was, no Irish manager has ever won in Slovakia. The game finished as a draw like all the others out there. Only those with an agenda would blame a manager for players missing penalties. Of course if Mick was a competent manager, we wouldn't have even needed to go out there in the first place.

I've posted what the alternative is in the last post. If you can't read it properly, you can't be helped.

There's nothing wrong with saying your aim is to win a Nations League group but when you fail miserably and come close to coming last in the group, then expect to be called out on it. The next part is a straw man argument. I said nothing about playing hoofball. It is actually possible to compete and play good football, you just need a manager capable of implementing that. Unfortunately, we haven't got that and landing it on Duffy's head probably saved Kenny his job.

Slovakia were missing key players. It was a fantastic opportunity. Of course the players were blamed again for that failure. It's never Kenny's fault is it? McCarthy was never a great manager and by his second term, his methods were outdated but if Kenny had got so close to qualifying with Denmark and Switzerland in the group, you'd be erecting statues for him.

I think whoever came in after McCarthy, no one could have envisaged just how bad the results and performances would have sunk. Even the most pessimistic person wouldn't have said Kenny would be this bad. It's been such a disaster that we mightn't even get a backdoor play off for the next euros because Kenny has driven us so far down the rankings. A common judge on a manager is to see where their team was prior to them taking over and where they have left them. It's indisputable that Kenny has left us in a far worse spot but his supporters will keep singing his name. Hopefully more will start to realise that keeping him in charge is very damaging to our future, the last set of fixtures saw a good few turn that way.

[Eirambler]

I can't believe we're back to the "it's either Kenny or hoofball" argument. What absolute nonsense, I expect more serious debate on this forum!

[tetsujin1979]

As a reminder, the forum does have an ignore button

[elatedscum]

It's been such a disaster that we mightn't even get a backdoor play off for the next euros because Kenny has driven us so far down the rankings. A common judge on a manager is to see where their team was prior to them taking over and where they have left them. It's indisputable that Kenny has left us in a far worse spot but his supporters will keep singing his name. Hopefully more will start to realise that keeping him in charge is very damaging to our future, the last set of fixtures saw a good few turn that way.

To be clear, when he took over we were ranked 23rd (with a lowest possible rank of 24) and in this campaign, with the group rejigged, we came 26th (with a lowest possible rank of 31). It’s not a significant difference.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

To be clear, when he took over we were ranked 23rd (with a lowest possible rank of 24) and in this campaign, with the group rejigged, we came 26th (with a lowest possible rank of 31). It’s not a significant difference.

It actually is a hugely significant difference as it could mean not getting a play off v getting a play off previously. Also, the lack of performance has left us with the France/Holland group. We've dropped from 34th to 48th in the World rankings. So to be clear, no amount of spin can change the fact that Kenny's reign has been disastrous.

[elatedscum]

It actually is a hugely significant difference as it could mean not getting a play off v getting a play off previously. Also, the lack of performance has left us with the France/Holland group. We've dropped from 34th to 48th in the World rankings. So to be clear, no amount of spin can change the fact that Kenny's reign has been disastrous.

23rd didn't guarantee you a playoff then either. obviously we got it - but it was still a risk. we were the 11th B team and we're now the 10th - so the likelihood of reaching the playoff is largely similar (higher of reaching pool B playoff, lower of reaching pool A playoff). Also, had we come 23rd - we'd still be in pot 3, which would have given us an equal chance to be in a group in france and netherlands

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

23rd didn't guarantee you a playoff then either. obviously we got it - but it was still a risk. we were the 11th B team and we're now the 10th - so the likelihood of reaching the playoff is largely similar (higher of reaching pool B playoff, lower of reaching pool A playoff). Also, had we come 23rd - we'd still be in pot 3, which would have given us an equal chance to be in a group in france and netherlands

I'm not an expert on the play off process. I'm just basing it off what I've read. We're maybe 50/50 at best to get a play off this time while a higher chance last time. And the last one was based on the disastrous O Neill group when he lost the dressing room?

But basically, a better manager and better results would have left us in a stronger position in terms of getting a play off and a better draw for the Euros. You're trying to spin it but not getting second seeds was down to Kenny failing to reach even his stated targets.

[mypost]

There's nothing wrong with saying your aim is to win a Nations League group but when you fail miserably and come close to coming last in the group, then expect to be called out on it. The next part is a straw man argument. I said nothing about playing hoofball. It is actually possible to compete and play good football, you just need a manager capable of implementing that. Unfortunately, we haven't got that and landing it on Duffy's head probably saved Kenny his job.

Slovakia were missing key players. It was a fantastic opportunity. Of course the players were blamed again for that failure. It's never Kenny's fault is it? McCarthy was never a great manager and by his second term, his methods were outdated but if Kenny had got so close to qualifying with Denmark and Switzerland in the group, you'd be erecting statues for him.

I think whoever came in after McCarthy, no one could have envisaged just how bad the results and performances would have sunk. Even the most pessimistic person wouldn't have said Kenny would be this bad. It's been such a disaster that we mightn't even get a backdoor play off for the next euros because Kenny has driven us so far down the rankings. A common judge on a manager is to see where their team was prior to them taking over and where they have left them. It's indisputable that Kenny has left us in a far worse spot but his supporters will keep singing his name. Hopefully more will start to realise that keeping him in charge is very damaging to our future, the last set of fixtures saw a good few turn that way.

According to you, there's a lot wrong with saying he wants us to win the group and failing, and there's a lot wrong with lowering our expectations to reflect where we stand. One extreme to the other.

I know you don't like facts that don't support your argument, but in terms of results, we have won 3 and drawn 1 of our last 6 games. That's not a disasterous record that supports an instant sacking. If anything it shows that we're making slow but steady progress, and calls for more encouragement from us, rather than rip up the project and go back to hoofball. I know people don't want it described as that, but that's what's on the menu in the event that Kenny is sacked. No it's park the bus, hang on for dear life, and launch the ball in the general direction of Duffy's head instead. The tried and trusted technique that is boring, outdated, and ineffective.

[Eirambler]

Hang on, what's all this about results all of a sudden? Sure it was only a few posts ago you were telling us that they didn't matter?!

[osarusan]

The argument that there are no other options, no scale of any sort, that it's a simple binary of either Kenny or hoofball is nonsense.

I dont think there's many people at all on here who desire a return to hoofball.

I'd guess the clear majority of people that want Kenny gone want him to be replaced by somebody better equipped to continue what he has been trying to do (but unfortunately not succeeding).

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

According to you, there's a lot wrong with saying he wants us to win the group and failing, and there's a lot wrong with lowering our expectations to reflect where we stand. One extreme to the other.

I know you don't like facts that don't support your argument, but in terms of results, we have won 3 and drawn 1 of our last 6 games. That's not a disasterous record that supports an instant sacking. If anything it shows that we're making slow but steady progress, and calls for more encouragement from us, rather than rip up the project and go back to hoofball. I know people don't want it described as that, but that's what's on the menu in the event that Kenny is sacked. No it's park the bus, hang on for dear life, and launch the ball in the general direction of Duffy's head instead. The tried and trusted technique that is boring, outdated, and ineffective.

It's a tale of 2 groups. In one Kenny aimed to come top and came near the bottom. In the other, Kenny had already finished near the bottom and tried to pass the blame off onto the players. The bottom line is the awful results and coming near the bottom of every group we've been in under Kenny. Your wins against Malta and Armenia spin has been nonsensed previously, as has your hoofball talk.

[mypost]

Now you're describing the rare wins we get as "your" wins, rather than "our" wins that they are. If you don't like the fact we won them, that's up to you, but we still won them.

McCarthy won 3 games against Georgia and Gibraltar. He finished the campaign with 1 win in 6 competitive games. And you tell me he would have got us to the Euros?


The argument that there are no other options, no scale of any sort, that it's a simple binary of either Kenny or hoofball is nonsense.

I dont think there's many people at all on here who desire a return to hoofball.

I'd guess the clear majority of people that want Kenny gone want him to be replaced by somebody better equipped to continue what he has been trying to do (but unfortunately not succeeding).

He wouldn't get the time. There's a referendum on the Ireland manager after literally every single game, regardless of result. If we win, the performance means he has to go. If we don't win, then he really has to go. This has been the case long before Kenny got the job.

Name me one manager who will be given the time and the patience to do Kenny's job, but do it better than him, on a similar salary? No, they'll demand he either qualifies for the next tournament, or he gets fired.

Where is the long term vision of where we want to be and how we want to get there, in 5-10-15-20 years time? The team's that over achieved at recent international tournaments, did so because they went down the Kenny route of sacrificing results and qualifications, while they put the necessary structures in place to bring through new players, and bring them up to a team capable of competing at the highest level. It is a painfully slow transition but it has to be done, and eventually they were rewarded. Iceland, Finland, Macedonia, Albania, Belgium to name a few in Europe. That's the model we should be looking towards, not what we do atm, either qualify or the sack, paying out unsustainable sums that the FAI can't afford.

[seanfhear]

Now you're describing the rare wins we get as "your" wins, rather than "our" wins that they are. If you don't like the fact we won them, that's up to you, but we still won them.

McCarthy won 3 games against Georgia and Gibraltar. He finished the campaign with 1 win in 6 competitive games. And you tell me he would have got us to the Euros?



He wouldn't get the time. There's a referendum on the Ireland manager after literally every single game, regardless of result. If we win, the performance means he has to go. If we don't win, then he really has to go. This has been the case long before Kenny got the job.

Name me one manager who will be given the time and the patience to do Kenny's job, but do it better than him, on a similar salary? No, they'll demand he either qualifies for the next tournament, or he gets fired.

Where is the long term vision of where we want to be and how we want to get there, in 5-10-15-20 years time? The team's that over achieved at recent international tournaments, did so because they went down the Kenny route of sacrificing results and qualifications, while they put the necessary structures in place to bring through new players, and bring them up to a team capable of competing at the highest level. It is a painfully slow transition but it has to be done, and eventually they were rewarded. Iceland, Finland, Macedonia, Albania, Belgium to name a few in Europe. That's the model we should be looking towards, not what we do atm, either qualify or the sack, paying out unsustainable sums that the FAI can't afford.According to Great Greta Thunberg and the like there is no point making 10 /15 / 20 year plans ! !

Maybe that's why football managers don't get much time these days !

[pineapple stu]

We've overachieved at recent international tournaments?

We've won one game in 20 years, and that was against a B side who weren't all that pushed. Our only other non-defeat in all that time - indeed, the only other game we were even vaguely competitive in - was a 1-1 draw against a Sweden side who didn't manage a shot on target in the entire game.

[Eirambler]

In fairness we also lead against a full strength French team in their own Euros for almost an hour and lost by a goal in the end. I'd say that counts as vaguely competitive at a minimum.

[pineapple stu]

We were absolutely battered in that game. We fought hard and I'd take a similar performance/result this month, but once France got going (after realising they had no need for a defensive mid), we barely got a touch of the ball.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Now you're describing the rare wins we get as "your" wins, rather than "our" wins that they are. If you don't like the fact we won them, that's up to you, but we still won them.

McCarthy won 3 games against Georgia and Gibraltar. He finished the campaign with 1 win in 6 competitive games. And you tell me he would have got us to the Euros?


Clearly I was referring to your spin, I don't think you're involved with the Irish squad.

McCarthy's record was played 10, won 5, drew 4 and lost 1. And that included playing against two of the top teams in Europe home and away. And as you say, his reign wasn't even great. So that shows just how bad Kenny's reign has been. Played 30, Won 8, drawn 11 and lost 11.

Just to show the stark difference between the record of the two, had McCarthy kept the same rate up, after 30 games it would have been won 15, drawn 12, lost 3.

So yes, I think McCarthy would have taken us to the Euros or if any reasonable manager had taken over. Not only that but we would have made a much better crack at qualifying for the World Cup and we wouldn't even be in a group with France and Holland.

[paul_oshea]

Tets whats the top 5 Threads for views on foot.ie? I notice this one has 263,722 which says a lot about the activity on the forum recently.

[SkStu]

Click where it says views and it will sort top to bottom.

[Eirambler]

And the most viewed player thread on the forum is......



James McCarthy. Didn't expect that!

[third policeman]

And the most viewed player thread on the forum is......



James McCarthy. Didn't expect that!

Is he fit or just so far down the pecking order that he doesn’t even make benches anymore. Sad.

[elatedscum]

Is he fit or just so far down the pecking order that he doesn’t even make benches anymore. Sad.

hamstring injury

[jbyrne]

We were absolutely battered in that game. We fought hard and I'd take a similar performance/result this month, but once France got going (after realising they had no need for a defensive mid), we barely got a touch of the ball.

that's simply not true. we were well in that game until the hour mark. having had a few days less than france to recover from the previous round then told.
our first half performance was excellent against the hosts and probably favorites for the tournament.

[pineapple stu]

First half was decent, sure, but the game is 90 minutes. And when they brought Coman on for Kante at halftime, the second half was mostly one-way traffic. It certainly wasn't competitive. I think they had 80% possession in the second half or something like that.

[jbyrne]

First half was decent, sure, but the game is 90 minutes. And when they brought Coman on for Kante at halftime, the second half was mostly one-way traffic. It certainly wasn't competitive. I think they had 80% possession in the second half or something like that.

you said we were "absolutely battered". we weren't

[pineapple stu]

We were though. Especially that entire second half was no contest.

25 shots v 6. 9 corners to 1. 80% possession in the second half once France had worked us out.

Everything except the scoreline was no contest; France were quite wasteful that day.

[Fixer82]

We were though. Especially that entire second half was no contest.

25 shots v 6. 9 corners to 1. 80% possession in the second half once France had worked us out.

Everything except the scoreline was no contest; France were quite wasteful that day.

Yet we still could’ve easily gotten a second goal. Stats are fine but they don’t always tell the full story. We were well in that game for a long time.
I think their first goal was an error from Duffy?

[pineapple stu]

They could have a hatful if you want to take every chance as a possible goal. They hit the bar for starters, the nearest either side came to adding to the scoring.

Doesn't really matter if they scored from an error by Duffy; that's what being under pressure will do.

The Guardian had a live blog of the game here (https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2016/jun/26/france-v-republic-of-ireland-euro-2016-live?page=with:block-576fe38ee4b0f43038109e83&filterKeyEvents=false) - early in the second half of mentions a "rare Ireland attack", the equaliser had "been coming since the break really", Ireland "just can’t cope with the pressure", there's "only one side look like adding to the score at the moment, and it’s not Ireland"

We were leading for a long time. But we weren't in the game at all after the break. It was one-way traffic

[elatedscum]

Ah it was all over in 8 minutes. Between the first goal, the second goal and the red card. Something like between the 55th and 63rd minute - from then on playing 11 v 10 - we didn’t have a chance

[pineapple stu]

It was - but even then the goal had been coming since half-time. And the red card was just them carving us open again; Duffy's choice was either take the hit or it was 3-1.

[Eirambler]

In fairness we were always going to have to concede a lot of possession in that game once we went ahead so early. If anything we might have scored too early. But again, we were leading for almost an hour and only lost by a goal to the hosts and eventual finalists, it was a creditable effort.

[pineapple stu]

It was certainly creditable, and I'd settle for same again this time out.

I do think scoring early gave us something to hold on to though. Without that, and if France score say 20 minutes in then it's potentially a horribly different kettle of fish.

But I do think once France took stock at half-time and changed things around tactically - which is all part and parcel of the game - we have to acknowledge we weren't competitive. No shame at all in that when we were playing the ultimate runners-up (and the upcoming World Champions) in their own back yard. But true nonetheless I think.

Anyways, I'm happy to leave it at that if others are! :)

[mypost]

According to Great Greta Thunberg and the like there is no point making 10 /15 / 20 year plans ! !


Lee Carsley to Greta Thunberg. If that's the shortlist for Kenny's job these days, I would be quite happy if he keeps it for another 20 years.


Clearly I was referring to your spin, I don't think you're involved with the Irish squad.

McCarthy's record was played 10, won 5, drew 4 and lost 1. And that included playing against two of the top teams in Europe home and away. And as you say, his reign wasn't even great. So that shows just how bad Kenny's reign has been. Played 30, Won 8, drawn 11 and lost 11.

Just to show the stark difference between the record of the two, had McCarthy kept the same rate up, after 30 games it would have been won 15, drawn 12, lost 3.

So yes, I think McCarthy would have taken us to the Euros or if any reasonable manager had taken over. Not only that but we would have made a much better crack at qualifying for the World Cup and we wouldn't even be in a group with France and Holland.

Holland and France are two of the best teams in the world. Denmark and Switzerland have 1 international trophy between them. That's a considerable difference in the challenge in front of us.

McCarthy had one job to do, get us into the Euros. And telling me he came close to qualifying isn't good enough to stay on, he didn't win any of his last 4 competitive games with his hoofball tactics, so he didn't get the job done. He wouldn't have beaten Portugal for a WC spot. Serbia did, but they're a better side than we are, and they benefitted from an outrageous injustice in their favour against Portugal at home, the kind of incident that will never happen again, thank god.

Aside from introducing a tonne of new players, overhauling the style of play, linking it all the way from grass roots to the senior side, retaining our League B status and winning the most points in it ever, he has got 19 results for us from 30 played, and won 3 of the last 6. That is not record breaking nor is it disasterous, it reflects where we stand and the direction we're trying to go in.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Lee Carsley to Greta Thunberg. If that's the shortlist for Kenny's job these days, I would be quite happy if he keeps it for another 20 years.



Holland and France are two of the best teams in the world. Denmark and Switzerland have 1 international trophy between them. That's a considerable difference in the challenge in front of us.

McCarthy had one job to do, get us into the Euros. And telling me he came close to qualifying isn't good enough to stay on, he didn't win any of his last 4 competitive games with his hoofball tactics, so he didn't get the job done. He wouldn't have beaten Portugal for a WC spot. Serbia did, but they're a better side than we are, and they benefitted from an outrageous injustice in their favour against Portugal at home, the kind of incident that will never happen again, thank god.

Aside from introducing a tonne of new players, overhauling the style of play, linking it all the way from grass roots to the senior side, retaining our League B status and winning the most points in it ever, he has got 19 results for us from 30 played, and won 3 of the last 6. That is not record breaking nor is it disasterous, it reflects where we stand and the direction we're trying to go in.

We have got drawn with Holland and France in part due to Kenny's miserable record. Denmark went on to the Euro semi finals, Switzerland the quarter finals after knocking out France. So McCarthy's record was decent in the face of that challenge. We deserved to qualify ahead of Denmark. We've gone from that to barely coming ahead of Luxembourg and Azerbaijan, I don't know why you're talking about Serbia and Portugal because we weren't competing with them and Kenny didn't think we could.

He tried to overhaul the style of play but he couldn't do it effectively so he had to get the Chelsea coach in to do it for him. He recently went back begging him to rejoin the set up. He has only come ahead of Bulgaria and Armenia in the nation's league, we've only ever been in 3 of them. And you're back using Malta as part of your spin. Your defence of Kenny is quite humorous but easily ripped apart.

[youngirish]

Lee Carsley to Greta Thunberg. If that's the shortlist for Kenny's job these days, I would be quite happy if he keeps it for another 20 years.



Holland and France are two of the best teams in the world. Denmark and Switzerland have 1 international trophy between them. That's a considerable difference in the challenge in front of us.

McCarthy had one job to do, get us into the Euros. And telling me he came close to qualifying isn't good enough to stay on, he didn't win any of his last 4 competitive games with his hoofball tactics, so he didn't get the job done. He wouldn't have beaten Portugal for a WC spot. Serbia did, but they're a better side than we are, and they benefitted from an outrageous injustice in their favour against Portugal at home, the kind of incident that will never happen again, thank god.

Aside from introducing a tonne of new players, overhauling the style of play, linking it all the way from grass roots to the senior side, retaining our League B status and winning the most points in it ever, he has got 19 results for us from 30 played, and won 3 of the last 6. That is not record breaking nor is it disasterous, it reflects where we stand and the direction we're trying to go in.

Alistair Campbell would have trouble putting a better spin on Kenny's reign than you. I would argue that you are being very selective (some would say almost disingenuous) in many of your points. He has 8 wins in 30 games almost all against extremely poor quality opposition the likes of which we would have been expected to soundly beat in years gone by. In the same period he has lost games to Finland, Luxembourg and Norway at home, overseen our worst performance in a world cup qualification group since 1986 and has the poorest win record of any Ireland manager in the modern era, far lower than even the disaster that was Stan.

Just for clarification what exactly in your mind would qualify as a disaster?

[Eirambler]

Just for clarification what exactly in your mind would qualify as a disaster?

Stephen Kenny losing his job.

[Stuttgart88]

Ah it was all over in 8 minutes. Between the first goal, the second goal and the red card. Something like between the 55th and 63rd minute - from then on playing 11 v 10 - we didn’t have a chance

James McClean wasted a superb opportunity to pick a square ball for a [Shane Long?] tap-in but he pulled it back to the pen spot instead. There was quite a bit of debate about it at the time but one camera angle showed just how easy a pass it was and just how poor it was that McClean didn't see it.

[paul_oshea]

No for our Waterford man murphy.

Interestingly the independent goes with the idea that we were on top for an hour.

"When Murphy brought a save from Lloris at full stretch in the midst of the first half, the Irish contingent sang: “We’re going to beat the French.” It was not to be. The Irish fans will always have the memory of that hour’s inconceivable supremacy against the French. It may just take them a while to appreciate the fact."


And then to elatedscums point:
"And then a series of circumstances collided. The heat of the afternoon sun. Ireland’s mere three days’ preparation time, against France’s full week. The technical superiority of the opposition. That side’s depth of tactical options. It was a perfect storm that Ireland could not contend with, allowing France to restore parity and finish their challengers off in the space of nine brutal minutes. By the end, Ireland were listing desperately and, you had to imagine, ready for it all to come to an end."