Stephen Kenny

[paul_oshea]

Lampard was sacked but the players’ lobbied Marina Granovskaia to keep Barry, as they valued not only his coaching but also his personality, as he proved a valuable bridge between the players and Lampard. Thomas Tuchel retained him on his staff, allowing him to continue running set-pieces.

https://www.the42.ie/anthony-barry-ireland-5673515-Feb2022/

Who was it that said our set pieces
were poor under Kenny particularly with regard to scoring goals?

[liamoo11]

Inclined to agree. The turn around in formation, style and performance was extraordinary. It may just be a coincidence. Time will tell.

Maybe fai will go back and offer Barry the managers job and let kennys contract run down?

[ontheotherhand]

Inclined to agree. The turn around in formation, style and performance was extraordinary. It may just be a coincidence. Time will tell.

It's not binary. Kenny hired Barry to make improvements and he did. People seem to ignore that bit as if Barry was thrust on Kenny to fix things. It was a brilliant appointment that wasn't exactly praised at the time. Go back on this thread and the appt was greeted with a lot of "no idea who he is but sounds promising" before the talk quickly went back to how ****ed we were with no strikers. Kenny has presumably learned from Barry now and I'd imagine will look for a similar type of coach to fill the void. It's a big blow but maybe the man who brought in the man everyone rates deserves a chance to bring in another?

Barry looks destined for much bigger things than the Ireland job anyway, that is if he wants to be a manager. I think he's already turned down a few jobs. Might enjoy coaching and the flexibility of doing it for multiple set ups at once. Chelsea were happy for him to get the Ireland gig to broaden his horizons so I'd assume he sees the belgium one similarly and might not be at the stage where he wants to settle in to one club/team.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

It's not binary. Kenny hired Barry to make improvements and he did. People seem to ignore that bit as if Barry was thrust on Kenny to fix things. It was a brilliant appointment that wasn't exactly praised at the time. Go back on this thread and the appt was greeted with a lot of "no idea who he is but sounds promising" before the talk quickly went back to how ****ed we were with no strikers. Kenny has presumably learned from Barry now and I'd imagine will look for a similar type of coach to fill the void. It's a big blow but maybe the man who brought in the man everyone rates deserves a chance to bring in another?

Barry looks destined for much bigger things than the Ireland job anyway, that is if he wants to be a manager. I think he's already turned down a few jobs. Might enjoy coaching and the flexibility of doing it for multiple set ups at once. Chelsea were happy for him to get the Ireland gig to broaden his horizons so I'd assume he sees the belgium one similarly and might not be at the stage where he wants to settle in to one club/team.

Well, if we're looking for a recruitment manager, Kenny might be a good candidate. That's not his role now though. If we have to bring in people to set up the team, tactics etc because Kenny can't do it, then wouldn't it make sense just to appoint them as manager?

[ontheotherhand]

That's absolutely part of his role. Why do you think every single team at basically every single level of football has at least one coach, usually appointed by the manager? He'd be a really **** manager if he appointed **** coaches. Going for Barry was one of his best moves so far.

But yeah I'd agree that it would make sense if your version of the scenario was real. It would be foolish for the people who know whats going on with the team not to appoint the man who was running the show if he was interested. Sadly, you and I only know that Kenny hired Barry to help him, Barry did the job asked and has moved on to a bigger job now. Unless you're involved in the setup and know that Barry was doing everything? Then you'd still have to convince him to take the job over joining a team that could potentially win a trophy rather than just hope for qualification.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well, if we're looking for a recruitment manager, Kenny might be a good candidate. That's not his role now though. If we have to bring in people to set up the team, tactics etc because Kenny can't do it, then wouldn't it make sense just to appoint them as manager?
I hate to break it to you but every manager brings in people in to assist with coaching.

[Supreme feet]

I think it's encouraging that Kenny seems to be (a) ambitious and proactive when it comes to selecting his backroom staff, and not just choosing a 'big name' or one of his mates, and (b) actually humble enough to listen to and act on suggestions and advice from his coaches (e.g. changing to a back 3).

McCarthy just picked his mates, Ian Evans and then Robbie Keane/Terry Connor, who wouldn't have challenged him on anything or made him think outside the box. Trap picked Tardelli and Brady, who were possibly too in awe of him to challenge him and talk him out of his more bizarre, egotistical decisions (I can't see how Brady would have agreed with Andy Reid's banishment). MON picked Roy, which was always going to end badly. Staunton, in his wisdom, picked Kevin McDonald, who was known for bullying young players when he was at Villa.

Kerr's choice of Chris Hughton would have seemed like the outlier, but I've often thought that Hughton may have brought too much old-school British conservatism into the setup, which reflected in some of the more regressive selections and tactics.

[jbyrne]

I think it's encouraging that Kenny seems to be (a) ambitious and proactive when it comes to selecting his backroom staff, and not just choosing a 'big name' or one of his mates, and (b) actually humble enough to listen to and act on suggestions and advice from his coaches (e.g. changing to a back 3).

McCarthy just picked his mates, Ian Evans and then Robbie Keane/Terry Connor, who wouldn't have challenged him on anything or made him think outside the box. Trap picked Tardelli and Brady, who were possibly too in awe of him to challenge him and talk him out of his more bizarre, egotistical decisions (I can't see how Brady would have agreed with Andy Reid's banishment). MON picked Roy, which was always going to end badly.

Kerr's choice of Chris Hughton would have seemed like the outlier, but I've often thought that Hughton may have brought too much old-school British conservatism into the setup, which reflected in some of the more regressive selections and tactics.

robbie keane was effectively forced upon mick.
Traps fortunes took a downward turn when brady left the team.
you cant just ignore the successes under MON and Roy. Decent euros and some historic wins along the way. 99% of management team tenures end badly...

[pineapple stu]

McCarthy just picked his mates, Ian Evans and then Robbie Keane/Terry Connor, who wouldn't have challenged him on anything or made him think outside the box.
I think that's quite unfair. Lots of managers have an assistant they regularly work with, and the partnerships work exactly because the two challenge each other and are comfortable doing so. Brian Clough and Peter Taylor would be probably the most famous example.

I don't think you can throw out the accusation that Evans/Keane/Connor were effectively yes-men without some sort of back-up.

[Supreme feet]

robbie keane was effectively forced upon mick.
Traps fortunes took a downward turn when brady left the team.
you cant just ignore the successes under MON and Roy. Decent euros and some historic wins along the way. 99% of management team tenures end badly...

We had thirteen good months (Oct 2015 to Nov 2016) sandwiched in between the first two years of maddening inconsistency and poor results, and the entirety of 2017/18, which was just appalling to watch.

A tactical coach with a better handle on 21st century football (a Barry type) would have been an ideal foil for an old-school motivator like MON. He'd worked well with John Robertson before, it would have made sense to appoint someone in that mould - not a tactically-inept loose cannon like Roy.

The general point is that the choice of assistant is a huge decision. Barry is arguably the only assistant we've had who's clearly made a positive difference to the setup.

[Supreme feet]

I don't think you can throw out the accusation that Evans/Keane/Connor were effectively yes-men without some sort of back-up.

Fair enough, I'm assuming (as we all are when it comes to the competence of managers and coaches behind the scenes), but I do find it strange/revealing that none of them have found work as coaches since working with McCarthy.

[pineapple stu]

Well Evans is 70 now so he's probably happily retired. Connor has worked with McCarthy for the last 13 years and they were only sacked at Cardiff three months ago. There's talk that might have been Mick's last job and maybe Connor (who's 60 this year) may retire too. Keane as noted was pushed on McCarthy by Delaney, but was also assistant manager as Middlesbrough at the same time.

[Supreme feet]

Put it this way, if Kenny decided to get one of his old Dundalk/Derry City/Dunfermline buddies in to replace Barry, or another 'old-school' ex-international player, I'd have major misgivings. The 'Jobs for the Boys' policy should be consigned to the rubbish bin of Irish football history.

Kenny needs to look far and wide for the best possible coach - someone up-and-coming, progressive, with a track record, who has worked with current, elite-level players. i.e. the type of assistant we didn't tend to appoint before Barry.

[John83]

I don't think we have the profile or budget to consistently attract that type of coach. It's like Hull trying to hire a coach like that. We got lucky with Barry because of a personal link.

[pineapple stu]

Put it this way, if Kenny decided to get one of his old Dundalk/Derry City/Dunfermline buddies in to replace Barry, or another 'old-school' ex-international player, I'd have major misgivings. The 'Jobs for the Boys' policy should be consigned to the rubbish bin of Irish football history.

Kenny needs to look far and wide for the best possible coach - someone up-and-coming, progressive, with a track record, who has worked with current, elite-level players. i.e. the type of assistant we didn't tend to appoint before Barry.

Well that's fine - but maybe the "best possible coach" is someone he already knows and has a good working relationship with, to the extent that they're comfortable enough working with each other to challenge each other, and to recognise each other's strengths and weaknesses. I think to describe that as "Jobs for the Boys" is again to miss the point of why managers often work with the same assistants.

I'll acknowledge of course that Kenny's CV to date means he probably has worked with fewer top-quality coaches than someone like, say, Mick.

[Stuttgart88]

Put it this way, if Kenny decided to get one of his old Dundalk/Derry City/Dunfermline buddies in to replace Barry, or another 'old-school' ex-international player, I'd have major misgivings. The 'Jobs for the Boys' policy should be consigned to the rubbish bin of Irish football history.

Kenny needs to look far and wide for the best possible coach - someone up-and-coming, progressive, with a track record, who has worked with current, elite-level players. i.e. the type of assistant we didn't tend to appoint before Barry.have any names been mooted yet?

[tetsujin1979]

Had Kenny worked with Stephen Rice before he was appointed as opposition analyst?
I've no problem who someone has worked with previously, as long as they're the right person for the job

[JR89]

Had Kenny worked with Stephen Rice before he was appointed as opposition analyst?
I've no problem who someone has worked with previously, as long as they're the right person for the job

Was in with Kenny for the summer friendlies but that's about it as far as them working together since Rice retired from playing.

Kenny did sign him for Bohs in 2003 but he left to manage Derry in 2004, and Rice was captain I believe at Shams when Kenny took over as manager.

Think the only work he did before going to Crystal Palace was as a development officer with the FAI and worked with Rovers underage teams.

[Stuttgart88]

Steven Reid, Brian Barry-Murphy....?

[pineapple stu]

Lee Carsley...?

(OK, that's probably a bit ambitious, sadly)

[JR89]

City probably wouldn't let Murphy double job. Think that's one of the main reasons Carsley left Man City. Returned to Birmingham because they didn't mind him working with the FA and both jobs were closer to home for him so got to spend more time with his family.

Wouldn't say Carsley would fancy coming in to work with us either as he's got a handy job with the English U21s. Definitely should be someone to keep tabs on and would be working with lads who are dual national. But what's his relationship gonna be like with the FAI after they blew him off the last time he approached them.

[ontheotherhand]

Had Kenny worked with Stephen Rice before he was appointed as opposition analyst?
I've no problem who someone has worked with previously, as long as they're the right person for the job

Wouldn't be too surprised to see Rice's name being thrown in the hat to take over from Barry. Young, modern thinking coach who seems ambitious and well regarded. Nowhere near the level Barry was at when he joined but I don't think there are many at that level who would join. Barry was a coup. I think anyone who replaces him might seem underwhelming at first but....so was Barry to a lot of people. Surprised Higgins hasn't been mentioned but personally I'm hoping Kenny has another ace up his sleeve who operates at close to Barry's level at least and that would rule out Rice and Higgins. Barry's appt did at least show that the football world is more connected than it looks sometimes and Kenny isn't operating outside of it. Who knows who else he can wrangle in?

[tetsujin1979]

I've noticed that former U19 player Travis Binnion is coaching the Manchester United U23s, could be another option

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I hate to break it to you but every manager brings in people in to assist with coaching.

Not every manager brings in people to take over organising their team though.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I think it's encouraging that Kenny seems to be (a) ambitious and proactive when it comes to selecting his backroom staff, and not just choosing a 'big name' or one of his mates, and (b) actually humble enough to listen to and act on suggestions and advice from his coaches (e.g. changing to a back 3).

McCarthy just picked his mates, Ian Evans and then Robbie Keane/Terry Connor, who wouldn't have challenged him on anything or made him think outside the box. Trap picked Tardelli and Brady, who were possibly too in awe of him to challenge him and talk him out of his more bizarre, egotistical decisions (I can't see how Brady would have agreed with Andy Reid's banishment). MON picked Roy, which was always going to end badly. Staunton, in his wisdom, picked Kevin McDonald, who was known for bullying young players when he was at Villa.

Kerr's choice of Chris Hughton would have seemed like the outlier, but I've often thought that Hughton may have brought too much old-school British conservatism into the setup, which reflected in some of the more regressive selections and tactics.

Kenny's reign has been a complete disaster compared to all those you mentioned. Even worse that Kerr's and Staunton's.

[geysir]

Kenny brought Barry into the coaching team in the first place, I take it that he already knows where the bar lies for the standard and personality of coach that's needed for the senior team .

Barry sounds like the proverbial floating voter to me.

[nigel-harps1954]

Kenny's reign has been a complete disaster compared to all those you mentioned. Even worse that Kerr's and Staunton's.

We get it. You don't like Stephen Kenny..

[Snapshot]

Kenny's reign has been a complete disaster compared to all those you mentioned. Even worse that Kerr's and Staunton's.


We get it. You don't like Stephen Kenny..

Or maybe he just finds Stephen Kenny's record unlikeable. Two competitive wins in fifteen (against lightweights) is a creative take on progress. The FAI will not tolerate a similarly unlikeable Nations League campaign that augurs badly for the Euros. Two poor opening NL results and Kenny will also get it.

[pineapple stu]

Given we've four Nations League games in a week, he's unlikely to be sacked midway through that run in fairness.

[ifk101]

No need to sack when his contract ends in July. Not sure why the hold up on a new contract unless there's doubts. As it is, Anthony Barry is a loss, the forthcoming games will say how much of a loss.

[Exgrad]

No need to sack when his contract ends in July. Not sure why the hold up on a new contract unless there's doubts. As it is, Anthony Barry is a loss, the forthcoming games will say how much of a loss.

Maybe if the FAI got the finger out and sorted out contracts Barry would still be here. Well at least the likes of Bonner and Kerr (who seems to have the inside track these days) will be happy as a lot of concerrns over the size of Kennys back room team were raised, thats sorted now with Barry off to Belgium.

[JR89]

No need to sack when his contract ends in July. Not sure why the hold up on a new contract unless there's doubts. As it is, Anthony Barry is a loss, the forthcoming games will say how much of a loss.

It's the FAI, they love doing things arseways. Instead of getting compensated for losing one of our assistants and having a few quid to help with getting someone in to replace him, they waited and now we're losing him for nothing.

[John83]

It's the FAI, they love doing things arseways. Instead of getting compensated for losing one of our assistants and having a few quid to help with getting someone in to replace him, they waited and now we're losing him for nothing.
Sure, like when we tied Robbie Keane to a four year deal?

[tetsujin1979]

There's been more than one recent case of an Ireland manager being given a contract extension and it blowing up in the FAI's faces.

[ifk101]

Unbelievable the FAI appoint a CEO that refuses to relocate to Ireland and then have him fronting a “we are one” wishy washy vision. So much for correcting past mistakes ...

[pineapple stu]

Maybe if the FAI got the finger out and sorted out contracts Barry would still be here.
What makes you think Barry - an English coach - wouldn't have turned down the job at a much bigger nation that's probably going to be paying more and is closer to where he lives, just because he had a longer contract with the FAI?

[Exgrad]

What makes you think Barry - an English coach - wouldn't have turned down the job at a much bigger nation that's probably going to be paying more and is closer to where he lives, just because he had a longer contract with the FAI?

Might have been harder if he was on a longer (and better) contract? Thats generally how it works. As things stand there are doubts over the future for the entire coaching staff until contracts get sorted. Thats been going on since November.

[Exgrad]

No need to sack when his contract ends in July. Not sure why the hold up on a new contract unless there's doubts. As it is, Anthony Barry is a loss, the forthcoming games will say how much of a loss.

Of course there are doubts within the FAI, thats pretty clear isnt it?

[John83]

Of course there are doubts within the FAI, thats pretty clear isnt it?
There are fans who seem to think that doubts about Kenny are some kind of moral failure.

[Exgrad]

There are fans who seem to think that doubts about Kenny are some kind of moral failure.

Whats that got to do with my post? Take it up with those fans.

[ifk101]

Of course there are doubts within the FAI, thats pretty clear isnt it?

Is it possible that CEO has a mate he is lining up to come in for Kenny?

[pineapple stu]

Might have been harder if he was on a longer (and better) contract? Thats generally how it works. As things stand there are doubts over the future for the entire coaching staff until contracts get sorted. Thats been going on since November.
Could the FAI afford a better contract? Could they afford a better contact than the Belgian FA? Did Barry want to commit himself to a longer contract in the first place? Even if he did, would that really have changed his decision to move from a side where beating Luxembourg is a positive to one that's made the quarter-finals of five of the last six major tournaments (including the Nations League)?

I do think we need a bit of perspective on our side at times to be honest. At best, I think we would have come away from it with a bit of extra compensation. That's all.

[Exgrad]

Is it possible that CEO has a mate he is lining up to come in for Kenny?

Would certainly say there are parties within the FAI who have a different views on who should be managing the team.

Having said that Kennys contract will be renewed and its just the timing of the announcement really.

[Exgrad]

Could the FAI afford a better contract? Could they afford a better contact than the Belgian FA? Did Barry want to commit himself to a longer contract in the first place? Even if he did, would that really have changed his decision to move from a side where beating Luxembourg is a positive to one that's made the quarter-finals of five of the last six major tournaments (including the Nations League)?

I do think we need a bit of perspective on our side at times to be honest. At best, I think we would have come away from it with a bit of extra compensation. That's all.

I guess we won't know now, but efectively we left one of the most talented young coaches in the game effectively out of contract. This is a reasnoble perspective. Pretty clear Barry was too upwardly mobile to be hanging round for years, not under any illusions about that. I wouldnt be able to dismiss outright the uncertainty of contracts and the mood music of too many backroom staff that the FAI put out over last few months as a factor in him walking though.

[liamoo11]

I've noticed that former U19 player Travis Binnion is coaching the Manchester United U23s, could be another option

Mark Kennedy or diarmuid o carroll

[tetsujin1979]

Darren O'Dea is coaching at Celtic, they've a load of Irish players in the youth setup

[Fixer82]

Mark Kennedy or diarmuid o carroll

Judging by Kennedy's previous comments, he won't be getting involved in an Irish set up any time soon. Doesn't even watch us when we're playing. Comes across quite bitter about it all even though he was included in 2002 world cup squad an pulled out himself through injury.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

We get it. You don't like Stephen Kenny..

I do like Stephen Kenny. The same way I still like Steve Staunton but I rate them about the same when it comes to managing Ireland; way out of their depth.

[Olé Olé]

Mark Kennedy or diarmuid o carroll
Diarmuid O'Carroll is more likely to take a gig with the IFA than FAI. Think he's had a few roles there already.

[Charlie Darwin]

Not every manager brings in people to take over organising their team though.
Maybe you should bring in somebody to organise your evidence for that?