Stephen Kenny

[Snapshot]

Very naive comments by Kenny. Whoever advised him is as media savvy as himself. Silly stuff indeed.

[tetsujin1979]

The results that he's listed there are the reasons why he got the job, nobody is arguing with that, it's the results since his appointment, and more recently the performances, that are the reasons why his position is under threat

[Real ale Madrid]

The defeat in Greece was a massive blow. Needs 2 big performances in September. The draw was tough but a few better results in the Nations league could have all but guaranteed a playoff spot and unfortunately we've not done the business in this campaign when it mattered. (Home to Ukraine, away to Armenia, away to Greece) - if you turn those defeats into draws which we easily could have with better performances then he's not under as half as much pressure as he seems to be now.

I was always giving Kenny as bit of a longer lead as he's from an LOI background and he gets unwarranted criticism from those who are ignorant of the league - see VM2 last night again as an example. But at the end of the day he should get treated the same as every other manager - you get a campaign to bed in players tactics and when the next campaign comes around there needs to be improvement. There isn't, so unless there is a massive turnaround in fortunes both in and out of our group in September then his days are inevitably numbered. Think he knows this too - hence the soliloquy yesterday.

[osarusan]

The results that he's listed there are the reasons why he got the job, nobody is arguing with that, it's the results since his appointment, and more recently the performances, that are the reasons why his position is under threat

Exactly this.

His previous achievements made you hope that his ability to get players to over-achieve would continue to show, but now that he's up against a much higher level of opposition, it's fairly clear that it hasn't continued.

I'd argue that the players, limited though they are as a group, have still under-achieved more than they've over-achieved, under his management.

The same as a player who looks great in one league/division, then flops in a much higher one, and eventually finds their level somewhere in between...we are seeing where Kenny's level is, and who he can compete against, and who he can't.

[del_carroll]

No, he meant in the season indicated. So partly weldoniho is wrong (as elated has already pointed out) and partly Del Carroll is wrong. So for example Bakasetas played CL qualifying last year, where he scored as they were knocked out by Copenhagen. That dropped them into the EL groups (he scored three times), and then they came third there to make the Conference League knockouts, which he didn't play.

So not really right to say he was a CL player

Bakasetas is marked as a EL player in the list, apols for the formatting. for CL players, For others I've counted CL involvement in the last 2-3 years - I did after all count Matt Doherty for us.

I've happened to be at a couple of CL games with Greek clubs which maybe skews my view. Panathanaikos came to Stuttgart a few times when I lived there. I saw AEK in the Bernabau against Madrid, haul back a 2-0 deficit to draw the game 2-2 - They had 5K fans there going absolutely mental - it was a fantastic spectacle. I don't have any Irish soccer memories like this - John O'Shea's winners medal for being an unused sub in 2008 (15 years ago) summarises our last notable achievement in this premier tournament - reflect on that.

The fact remains that it's our soccer culture and infrastructure that's "shambolic". - there's not a manager in world football that could have guaranteed a better result last Friday with the material at our disposal. Maybe that's improving now, maybe it's not, but in the meantime Kenny is doing an OK job on which he is completely focused on and probably represents our best option (I'm including financial value for money in the criteria) .

[tetsujin1979]

Maybe any other manager would have lost that game, the criticism is that we were clearly being overloaded on the left side of defence by three Greek players, and he did nothing to change that. Poyet said after the game that they had figured out Kenny's tactics before kick off. That's not an isolated situation either - Armenia had the measure of us a year ago, Azerbaijan, Luxembourg, Wales, and so on. I've said it for a while that he doesn't know how to change tactics in a game when it's clearly not working.

[weldoninhio]

Not sure where you're getting your data from weldo but Vlachodimos played every minute for Benfica this season as they got to a champions league quarter final - and the same last season (again to the quarter final) and the two seasons before that (group stages)

I'm not gonna go any deeper than that on the list but he's played 32 champions league games

Apologies. I'd pulled the stats from transfermrkt. I must have screwed up somewhere along the line.

[backstothewall]

Bakasetas is marked as a EL player in the list, apols for the formatting. for CL players, For others I've counted CL involvement in the last 2-3 years - I did after all count Matt Doherty for us.

I've happened to be at a couple of CL games with Greek clubs which maybe skews my view. Panathanaikos came to Stuttgart a few times when I lived there. I saw AEK in the Bernabau against Madrid, haul back a 2-0 deficit to draw the game 2-2 - They had 5K fans there going absolutely mental - it was a fantastic spectacle. I don't have any Irish soccer memories like this - John O'Shea's winners medal for being an unused sub in 2008 (15 years ago) summarises our last notable achievement in this premier tournament - reflect on that.

The fact remains that it's our soccer culture and infrastructure that's "shambolic". - there's not a manager in world football that could have guaranteed a better result last Friday with the material at our disposal. Maybe that's improving now, maybe it's not, but in the meantime Kenny is doing an OK job on which he is completely focused on and probably represents our best option (I'm including financial value for money in the criteria) .

Respectfully, I think you've found an arrow and drawn a bullseye around it.

Greece happens to have a league which is just about strong enough for it's teams to regularly qualify for the group stages of European competitions. The truth is that Greek clubs in Europe, a little like Scottish sides, tend to be there to make up the numbers in Europe and create an impression that European football is about more than clubs from 5 countries.

I imagine a table showing experience playing in the big 5 European leagues would skew the other way given the tendency of Irish players to make a living playing at the bottom end of the Premier League. 7 of our starting 11 the other night have played in the Premier League. From the Greeks only Mavropanos and Tsimikas have played in the big 5 leagues.

But that's a load of malarkey.

What is true is that our players are good enough to give Greece a very difficult evening.

What actually happened is that Gus Poyet had done his due diligence and took Stephen Kenny out to the woodshed.


“We prepared under [Ireland operating] their two main systems, 5-4-1 and 5-3-2,”

“We had the suspicion that it would be two strikers so we put a lot of emphasis on the size and the full backs, how to drag them one way and switch to the other side, to be able to attack."

“It sounds very easy but you have to do it in the game. Plenty of times in the first half we had our full backs arriving in areas to put the Republic of Ireland back.”

"I am sure the gaffer [Kenny] saw that and tried to change a striker with a midfielder and tried to stop us and we were put under a bit of pressure but then they got weaker in the middle and we pressed through the middle to be able to play wide"

“I understand that situation because when we were analysing the Republic of Ireland we had the impression that you were really playing football with the ball on the floor, playing through the thirds, going wide, putting players in the box and I was happy because of the way that you played."

“And then there were other games where depending on the result you become the Republic of Ireland, with all due respect. You depend on a corner, you depend on a long ball, you depend on fighting for second and third balls."

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/2023/06/17/gus-poyet-unsparing-in-assessment-of-ireland-after-greece-win-tactical-battle/

[Diggs246]

Maybe any other manager would have lost that game, the criticism is that we were clearly being overloaded on the left side of defence by three Greek players, and he did nothing to change that. Poyet said after the game that they had figured out Kenny's tactics before kick off. That's not an isolated situation either - Armenia had the measure of us a year ago, Azerbaijan, Luxembourg, Wales, and so on. I've said it for a while that he doesn't know how to change tactics in a game when it's clearly not working.

Stephen also started three centre backs against the world worst team and we were at home.

[pineapple stu]

Without wanting to rewatch it for obvious reasons, he made one very good save in the first half from a looping shot to the top corner and later came out to stop the Greek player who was through on goal when he might have stayed on his line.
The looping shot was a good save, for sure, but coming off his line was more routine I thought (and ironically of course it led directly to the goal). There was one or two other shots which were straight at him and were solid saves with good clean handling but still not "keeping us in the game" sort of stuff. He was certainly solid (which, again, is a big improvement on pretty much the entire past season and good to see) but I never got a feeling he was keeping us in the game. He kept us in the game against Serbia at home, and I think there's a clear difference between the two performances. I don't think he'd have gotten MotM if Greek players had been considered for example.

[Diggs246]

The looping shot was a good save, for sure, but coming off his line was more routine I thought (and ironically of course it led directly to the goal). There was one or two other shots which were straight at him and were solid saves with good clean handling but still not "keeping us in the game" sort of stuff. He was certainly solid (which, again, is a big improvement on pretty much the entire past season and good to see) but I never got a feeling he was keeping us in the game. He kept us in the game against Serbia at home, and I think there's a clear difference between the two performances. I don't think he'd have gotten MotM if Greek players had been considered for example.

and your fireplace... What really happended!

[pineapple stu]

Eh?
..

[Diggs246]

Eh?
..

Craftytoe has reliably informed us that Gavin Bazunu broke into (or possibly was invited) your house where he went on to urinate on your Christmas presents and finish his business in your fireplace.
I'm just surprised you didn't tell us this before

[del_carroll]

......

Greece happens to have a league which is just about strong enough for it's teams to regularly qualify for the group stages of European competitions. .....

YES! we should aim for that.

Thanks
d.

[pineapple stu]

Craftytoe has reliably informed us that Gavin Bazunu broke into (or possibly was invited) your house where he went on to urinate on your Christmas presents and finish his business in your fireplace.
I'm just surprised you didn't tell us this before
I...see.

I deny everything!

[ontheotherhand]

The looping shot was a good save, for sure, but coming off his line was more routine I thought (and ironically of course it led directly to the goal). There was one or two other shots which were straight at him and were solid saves with good clean handling but still not "keeping us in the game" sort of stuff. He was certainly solid (which, again, is a big improvement on pretty much the entire past season and good to see) but I never got a feeling he was keeping us in the game. He kept us in the game against Serbia at home, and I think there's a clear difference between the two performances. I don't think he'd have gotten MotM if Greek players had been considered for example.

Thought coming off his line was timed perfectly myself. I've seen keepers stay put or come out too late in those scenarios but he judged it really well. That said, he also stood out more because everyone else was doing their level best to keep us OUT of the game. If he'd made the same number of mistakes as his teammates in the first half we would have been done for. I'm still struggling to think of a game more laden with individual errors and wayward passes.

[ontheotherhand]

Fresh off you being warned about continuing to call the LOI a pub league you now compare it to your cute little kick around with your girlfriends. Think you've mentioned before that you live in LA, come on down to Orange County. Decent men's league here, few ex LOI players even playing. I promise there'll be plenty of slide tackles

I used to give CR the benefit of the doubt and assume he was playing an ignorant fool as Mr. Colbert did on the show. The doubt wore off though. Best ignored.

[Trequartista20]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023/0620/1390290-kenny-signs-off-for-summer-with-solemn-soliliquoy/

'We’d nine years with nothing through, nothing, we brought 18 players through from the system.'

Really? No player made his debut in a near decade before Kenny took charge? I'm going to be looking into this claim.

Then going on to blame COVID for poor results as if a global pandemic happened in a vacuum that only affected him personally, before going on to remind us of his mediocre low-level achievements as if he's Jose Mourinho.

Embarrassing stuff that's probably done him more harm than good.

[pineapple stu]

Thought coming off his line was timed perfectly myself. I've seen keepers stay put or come out too late in those scenarios but he judged it really well.
Yeah, but is that solid keeping or keeping us in the game? I think just the former.

I was watching a bit of Austria v Sweden last night - Virgin Media were showing it while Scotland v Georgia was rained off. The Swedish keeper there really did keep the score down. Some great saves in the first half in particular - one right in the snot that nearly knocked him out cold - and it was only late on that they finally conceded. 8.87 rating and man of the match on whoscored for example. Bazunu with a 6.8 just. I think that's fair. Behind Collins (7.1), but well ahead of everyone else except, slightly surprisingly, Lenihan on 6.6.

[Trequartista20]

Bazunu only turned 21 in February and has already become Ireland's number one, played regularly in the Premier League and transferred for an eight-figure fee.


I think he's going to be all right.

[Razors left peg]

Bazunu could be Real Madrids keeper one day, Kelleher at Notts County and Pineapple will still be saying that Kelleher is better. I get his ma broke up with you years ago dude but don't carry the grudge over to the young fella :p

[pineapple stu]

Still not really able to engage in an actual point there, I see...

Why do you think Bazunu kept the score down against Greece? Given I've put out plenty of counter arguments (which acknowledge that he played quite well)

[Razors left peg]

Still not really able to engage in an actual point there, I see...

Why do you think Bazunu kept the score down against Greece? Given I've put out plenty of counter arguments (which acknowledge that he played quite well)

I watched the game, he make good saves at a time we were under massive pressure, hence keeping us in the game. Not every save has to be Gordon Banks level to be important. I feel like I have to say this to you a lot... its not that complicated.

[pineapple stu]

But he only made one particularly good save; the rest were routine enough. You'd have been annoyed had he let any of them in like. Again, compare it to the Swedish keeper's performance in Austria last night for what I would class as a keeper keeping the score down.

I think your hyper optimism is unhelpfully elevating a solid performance into a spectacular one. (I feel like I have to say this to you a lot...)

[Stuttgart88]

But the point Stu is that any praise for Bazunu from you always seems to be qualified or through gritted teeth.

As a (fellow) ex-keeper I’m very focused on the relationship between defenders and keeper and the keeper’s attitude, body language etc.

I posted over a year ago that Kelleher looks far more confident for Liverpool than he did in his early outings but Bazunu doesn’t yet look like he believes he belongs in the PL, and nor does it look like he is fully trusted by his defence. (nothing changed when McCarthy came in btw).

But for Ireland Bazunu looks the part. He’s at home in the Irish jersey and he’s fully in tune with his defence. He didn’t do anything miraculous in Greece but he was rock solid which puts all doubts to rest imho. And his distribution against Gibraltar was very good too.

When there are doubts about a kid based on his club form but he dispels those doubts for Ireland I think that’s noteworthy in itself.

The fact that you’ve really latched on to this “he saved us in Greece” thing rather than just letting it go really suggests you just don’t like him.

[ontheotherhand]

Yeah, but is that solid keeping or keeping us in the game? I think just the former.

I was watching a bit of Austria v Sweden last night - Virgin Media were showing it while Scotland v Georgia was rained off. The Swedish keeper there really did keep the score down. Some great saves in the first half in particular - one right in the snot that nearly knocked him out cold - and it was only late on that they finally conceded. 8.87 rating and man of the match on whoscored for example. Bazunu with a 6.8 just. I think that's fair. Behind Collins (7.1), but well ahead of everyone else except, slightly surprisingly, Lenihan on 6.6.


We might be overanalyzing it at this point stu. A keeper playing well does keep you in the game.....In the first 15 minutes he made one great save which did literally keep the score down. You agree with that so is it really that hard to say he kept us in the game? I still think it was 2 very good pieces of goalkeeping, particularly while everyone else was falling to pieces. If he'd lost the head and gone the same way we'd have been toast by halftime. Most seem to agree with that I think? It wasn't his best game for Ireland and it wasn't spectacular but we were so bad that him playing well was absolutely critical.....we still lost so it's a bit odd to be discussing Bazunu over other things. But it's foot.ie and we do love a GK debate.

Thought Collins was poor particularly during that period. The goal is boosting his rating of course but he made 2 or 3 really bad decisions. If Bazunu had done the same we'd have lost by more than one.

[osarusan]

I always think it's a bit unsual to be analysing (to this extent) the performances in the one position in which we are truly blessed with quality.

[Colbert Report]

Ask yourself what a higher level of competition is. The LoI cup final or an u-21 friendly match between Wales and Scotland. I promise I'm not winding anyone up here, but I find it amazing how some people seem to think that Bohemians or Shamrock Rovers are only a couple of good signings away from winning the Champions League. Sixteen cup finals? Is this guy for real?

[Razors left peg]

Ask yourself what a higher level of competition is. The LoI cup final or an u-21 friendly match between Wales and Scotland. I promise I'm not winding anyone up here, but I find it amazing how some people seem to think that Bohemians or Shamrock Rovers are only a couple of good signings away from winning the Champions League. Sixteen cup finals? Is this guy for real?

How many cup finals in professional football have you managed in ?

[Colbert Report]

How many cup finals in professional football have you managed in ?

None. I'm not going around telling people how great I am because I scored a few goals against female players, either. I'd be laughed at for doing so.

There must be some obscure manager who has racked up dozens of Cup wins in places like the Faroe Islands or Greenland. I wonder why Premier League clubs don't go after those highly decorated managers?

I'm not comparing the LoI to the Faroe Island or Greenland domestic leagues, if they even have them, but we have to be realistic about what kind of clubs Stephen Kenny has managed, and what kind of opposition he has managed against. By every metric, the League of Ireland is a poor league. It has a poorer UEFA ranking than Moldova and Azerbaijan.

I was willing to give Stephen Kenny a chance, especially after the Portugal match where we almost won. I really just don't get why so many on here are willing to stick with him. John Delaney was smarter than he looked, he knew you people were easy to manipulate.

[Razors left peg]

If they LOI is as bad as you make it out to be, getting Dundalk to just qualify for the group stages of the Europa League must be up there with the greatest achievements of any manager in history.

[Colbert Report]

It was an incredible achievement and I take nothing away from Stephen Kenny. He's a lovely guy, and I think the LoI is his level. I hope he goes back there and leads another club into Europe. I just don't feel he's shown that he's capable of managing at the international level. The away match to Greece was only 2-1, but we all know that it could have, and should have, been much worse. We weren't in it at all.

[Razors left peg]

It was an incredible achievement and I take nothing away from Stephen Kenny. He's a lovely guy, and I think the LoI is his level. I hope he goes back there and leads another club into Europe. I just don't feel he's shown that he's capable of managing at the international level. The away match to Greece was only 2-1, but we all know that it could have, and should have, been much worse. We weren't in it at all.

Ya see, if you kept your criticism genuine like that I'd have little argument. Comparing the LOI to your Co-Ed games just makes you look like you're intentionally just trying to wind people up. Keep that sh1t for Twitter

[tetsujin1979]

Alright, neutral corners you two.

[ontheotherhand]

"I find it amazing how some people seem to think that Bohemians or Shamrock Rovers are only a couple of good signings away from winning the Champions League"

I'd love to see some evidence to back that claim up to be honest. I've been following the league for a long time and I've never met one, single person who would think that let alone say it. The poster in question has a pretty long history of trying to wind up Irish football supporters and it has gone beyond tiresome.

[Colbert Report]

"I find it amazing how some people seem to think that Bohemians or Shamrock Rovers are only a couple of good signings away from winning the Champions League"

I'd love to see some evidence to back that claim up to be honest. I've been following the league for a long time and I've never met one, single person who would think that let alone say it. The poster in question has a pretty long history of trying to wind up Irish football supporters and it has gone beyond tiresome.

Fair point, I was being hyperbolic. That said, I do think that many LoI fans, especially the ones on here, greatly overestimate the quality of the players in their league. Normally this would be no problem, but it has bled into the national team. Never again can we allow someone like John Delaney to gain enough power to be able to make such a ridiculous appointment. Years from now we're going to look back on this period of Irish football and agree that Stephen Kenny did us no good at all.

On a side note, Stephen Kenny's been banging on about how many players he has given international debuts to. This would be like Steve Staunton taking credit for capping Joey Lapira.

[ontheotherhand]

See, when you give up the LoI bashing you actually make a bit of sense.

I'd still disagree with you on certain points but at least it doesn't come across as a windup. The LoI has provided multiple players to the current national side. They wouldn't appreciate you calling it a pub league and neither do people like myself who follow and support the league and frankly, know more about it than you seem to.

I do agree that John Delaney types should obviously never hold that amount of power BUT I'd disagree that Kenny wasn't a reasonable appointment at the time. Not handled well but I was OK when it happened. Only OK mind you. It's not as if he came out of the LoI with a completely flawless record snd most Rovers fans would have been against the appt.

I do think it's time for a change but that shouldn't mean we can't look to the LoI for future managers or players. Kenny just couldn't make the step up. Others will be able to.

I do also agree that he shouldn't tout the caps so much as he does. He was always going to have to cap players because we had no other choice. Although capping Johnston is one I'd give him some credit for. I'm not sure other managers would have gone after that one.

[SkStu]

On a side note, Stephen Kenny's been banging on about how many players he has given international debuts to. This would be like Steve Staunton taking credit for capping Joey Lapira.

Not fair at all. There’s a big difference between the caps that SK has handed out in the last two years and their long term value than there was with the Joey Lapira, Joe O’Cearruil, Joe Gamble days of Staunton. He must’ve had a thing for Joe’s actually!! Most, if not all, of the caps SK has handed out will be part of our set up for years to come.

[ontheotherhand]

Not fair at all. There’s a big difference between the caps that SK has handed out in the last two years and their long term value than there was with the Joey Lapira, Joe O’Cearruil, Joe Gamble days of Staunton. He must’ve had a thing for Joe’s actually!! Most, if not all, of the caps SK has handed out will be part of our set up for years to come.


Typical that we'd disagree in the leadup to the derby.....but I see your point while also agreeing with CR to an extent. I don't think Kenny should be talking so much about bringing the players through....he had to do that. It's a positive of his tenure but I think most managers would have done it so it's hardly going to save his job. Like nobody was going to ignore Ferguson and keep calling up Scott Hogan....

[SkStu]

I’m not defending him, just trying to be fair to him. It is to his credit but it also doesn’t need to be overplayed. I was just pointing out to CR that you can’t reasonably say the caps Kenny has handed out are no better than those handed to Lapira et all. It actually detracts from his overall point and comes across needlessly petty/bitter…

[ontheotherhand]

Yeah that's completely fair. Kenny's caps have basically all been good ones. Maybe not players who are fully ready yet but the best options we have for the medium term anyway. I wish we had another 26-30 year old midfielder who could help Knight and Molumby along but it is what it is and at least Kenny has decided to play them now and not lean on older options who are on the way out rather than up.

FWIW, and this isn't in response to you SkStu, I think we'll look back on Kennys tenure as a very turbulent one with some decent attempts made at changing the culture and style of football that were probably a bit too ambitious given the players at our disposal. Ultimately we will remember the results and tactics not being good enough but there have been some positives and we did need to try something new IMOP. One thing we will definitely say is that a good number of our best players in future years were brought in by him and encouraged to play.

I've moved on from him at this point. What's sad to me is that posters want to use his shortcomings to bash the LoI. Kenny had his shortcomings even within the LoI and many would have said that. Still deserved his shot, particularly given the FAIs finances but it hasn't worked and at this stage, his wages are good enough to attract someone who can do the job better. It's not an easy one but he's making it look harder than it is. We should be able to compete with Greece. I don't mind losing in Athens but we were tragically bad after a training camp dedicated to the game. I trust the current FAI slightly more to pick the right man as well.....slightly more.....

[Razors left peg]

Typical that we'd disagree in the leadup to the derby.....but I see your point while also agreeing with CR to an extent. I don't think Kenny should be talking so much about bringing the players through....he had to do that. It's a positive of his tenure but I think most managers would have done it so it's hardly going to save his job. Like nobody was going to ignore Ferguson and keep calling up Scott Hogan....

I'm not sure about that last part. Too many managers of our past would go with the "experienced" guy. Was chatting about this with a buddy the other day that if Allardyce was appointed for example I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff Hendrick was starting for us again as he would be a safe, experienced player. Of course Ferguson would force his way in, but I don't think he would have done as quickly under other managers

[ontheotherhand]

I'm not sure about that last part. Too many managers of our past would go with the "experienced" guy. Was chatting about this with a buddy the other day that if Allardyce was appointed for example I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff Hendrick was starting for us again as he would be a safe, experienced player. Of course Ferguson would force his way in, but I don't think he would have done as quickly under other managers

i think Ferguson would have been brought in even earlier by some managers! He's the only striker we have of any proven quality.

But yeah maybe Molumby and Knight would have been left out for longer in favour of Hendrick, Hourihane, Browne......although Browne may still be useful.

[elatedscum]

i think Ferguson would have been brought in even earlier by some managers! He's the only striker we have of any proven quality.

But yeah maybe Molumby and Knight would have been left out for longer in favour of Hendrick, Hourihane, Browne......although Browne may still be useful.

O’Shea, Omobamidele and to a lesser extend Collins would be years behind at this stage. John Egan made his competitive debut for Ireland a week before his 27th birthday, while playing premier league for Sheffield United. Genuinely 3 years later than he was ready…

[ontheotherhand]

O’Shea, Omobamidele and to a lesser extend Collins would be years behind at this stage. John Egan made his competitive debut for Ireland a week before his 27th birthday, while playing premier league for Sheffield United. Genuinely 3 years later than he was ready…

I might be missing your point here but would any of them not have been called up by other managers? We basically had to cap them all. I'm not sure even Big Sam wouldn't have looked for fresher options.

[pineapple stu]

But the point Stu is that any praise for Bazunu from you always seems to be qualified or through gritted teeth.
Not really. I've been clear he had a good game in Greece and deserved the non-Greek MotM award.

But now we have people saying he kept us in the game. No he didn't.

And anyone other than - in fairness - OTOH can only discuss that in the context of personal attacks. You've just done it yourself for example. That's daft.

I'm reminded of a phrase you've used before - read the room. No other views welcome, eh? That's not really what discussion is about though.

[Snapshot]

. . . too many managers of our past would go with the "experienced" guy. Was chatting about this with a buddy the other day that if Allardyce was appointed for example I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff Hendrick was starting for us again as he would be a safe, experienced player. Of course Ferguson would force his way in, but I don't think he would have done as quickly under other managers
It's just too awful to contemplate - the last three years without Stephen. What could possibly have gone right?

[Stuttgart88]

Not really. I've been clear he had a good game in Greece and deserved the non-Greek MotM award.

But now we have people saying he kept us in the game. No he didn't.

And anyone other than - in fairness - OTOH can only discuss that in the context of personal attacks. You've just done it yourself for example. That's daft.

I'm reminded of a phrase you've used before - read the room. No other views welcome, eh? That's not really what discussion is about though.My reading of this particular room is just as I said it in my opening line above: you really do seem to only praise Bazunu begrudgingly, and I feel too that you take a particularly firm interpretation of his club situation “he’s not good enough”. It really feels like you just don’t like him.

I don’t think I’m alone in noticing this, see for example Crafty’s fireplace gag.

I honestly didn't realise I had made a personal attack, and certainly didn't intend to. Apologies.

[brine3]

I'm not sure about that last part. Too many managers of our past would go with the "experienced" guy. Was chatting about this with a buddy the other day that if Allardyce was appointed for example I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff Hendrick was starting for us again as he would be a safe, experienced player. Of course Ferguson would force his way in, but I don't think he would have done as quickly under other managers

James McClean

[zero]

O’Shea, Omobamidele and to a lesser extend Collins would be years behind at this stage. John Egan made his competitive debut for Ireland a week before his 27th birthday, while playing premier league for Sheffield United. Genuinely 3 years later than he was ready…


I might be missing your point here but would any of them not have been called up by other managers? We basically had to cap them all. I'm not sure even Big Sam wouldn't have looked for fresher options.

I was about to make a similar point but I guess what es is saying is Kenny brought them on board earlier than other managers would have, which you could make a case for perhaps. Kenny put Dufffy out to pasture and went with younger partners for Egan... I do feel this would have happened pretty quickly anyway but may be true that O'Shea / Omoba would be on fewer caps than under another manager.

Molumby and Knight perhaps wouldn't be involved much under other managers, I would say they are the two he has really brought through that others may not have done, and Johnstone is something of a 'find'.