Stephen Kenny

[Eminence Grise]

Um yeah, pretty much what I was saying: asking why anybody would want to put themselves in an environment that doesn't value them - one, say, like the toxic environment you describe. Arter is a premiership quality player, now 30, with 15 caps in five years: that's not because of one short period of injury. And I don't think it's because he's the precious type either. Sooooo....

[elatedscum]

Isn’t ideal, but he is a footballer, like say a Harry Kewell, who is constantly playing in varying degrees of pain and battling to manage it. He’s talked about the struggle to play pain free.

He’s had significant injuries in recent years to his ankle, Achilles, knee and shinbone - there could be more that I don’t know about.

Until you’re in his head, it’s hard to know how the equation all adds up, but, I’d suspect the handling of him by Keane and O’Neill led to a level of disillusionment. I’d suspect on going injuries were definitely a factor. I’d suspect varying degrees of commitment is probably a factor, as in, if McClean or Whelan were dealt the same set of cards, would they have miss so many squads? Probably not. (I’m not accusing him of a lack of loyalty but there are players who value an international match above 100 club games and plenty who, while still being loyal, don’t have that same hunger to play an international at any cost)...

[OwlsFan]

Woodgate sacked at Middlesboro. Warnock takes over. Will he keep Robbie on or bring in his his own man ?

[brine3]

Can we please not have that kind of rubbish on here?

We are a nation of emigrants.

<MOD EDIT>
Removed quoted post

[tetsujin1979]

Can we please not have that kind of rubbish on here?

We are a nation of emigrants.

Missed that, even though I replied to the same post. Removed

[elatedscum]

Watched Harry Arter at the weekend, the last 20 minutes or whatever. Could definitely see him as a Stephen Kenny midfielder. Was very busy, won his tackles well, used the ball intelligently and was positive in his passing.

[nigel-harps1954]

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1152057/

A classy response from Kenny to a question referencing Keith Andrews and Roy Keanes comments about him being a 'bullsh!tter". Didn't get dragged into anything negative, and only spoke positively about Andrews.


""We all live in a society where people are free to express their opinions. I'm fine with that. I found Keith to be very hard-working and diligent. It hasn't come easy to him."He's worked with the Under-16s, the Under-17s, Under-18s for 18 months and then did another 18 months with the Under-21s.
"He has got through all his licences, worked with MK Dons in the Championship and League One as a coach. He is a great analyst and a very, very good coach. He'll have a great future I feel within the Irish set-up."

[Diggs246]

I really wish Roy Keane would just f**k off. He is the biggest moaner in football. Roy you had the job as assistant manager and made a b*lls of it.

[tetsujin1979]

Interviewed on Off The Ball
FzkTBof4MzA

[tetsujin1979]

Did some research on Kenny's statement about players breaking though. Robbie Brady and Jeff Hendrick were born in January 1992, along with Shane Duffy and Matt Doherty. 22 international players have been born after that month, but only three have more than 10 caps - Cyrus Christie(24), Callum Robinson(12), and Callum O'Dowda(18) - and only Christie(2 goals) has scored more than once.

By comparison, from the 22 players born before January 1992, nine have more than 10 caps, and two of those have more than 50 - Seamus Coleman(56) and James McClean(72) - and three have more than one goal - McClean(10), Ciaran Clarke(3), and Alex Pearce(2). Perhaps the most alarming statistic is that (currently) there are no senior internationals born in 1997 or 1998, and only one (Mark Travers) from 1999

[Eirambler]

And to add to that none of Christie, Robinson or O'Dowda were developed through the Irish system. He is right that we had a real drought after 1992, it's great to have players coming through now but there is a huge gap that they need to fill.

1997 looks like a particularly weak year, only Ogbene and Jimmy Dunne really but there are a number of 1998 born players that could still develop into internationals including Masterson, Kelleher, Ronan, Doyle Hayes and Elbouzedi.

[Kingdom]

And to add to that none of Christie, Robinson or O'Dowda were developed through the Irish system. He is right that we had a real drought after 1992, it's great to have players coming through now but there is a huge gap that they need to fill.

1997 looks like a particularly weak year, only Ogbene and Jimmy Dunne really but there are a number of 1998 born players that could still develop into internationals including Masterson, Kelleher, Ronan, Doyle Hayes and Elbouzedi.

Agree with you, I thought his language was specific on that, in that he was referrring to players who were born in Ireland. It's in direct reference to the Regional Development Programme who's first graduating class (for the want of a better expression) is either the 'about-to-become' current crop of 21s, or the recently finished crop of 21s

[elatedscum]

And to add to that none of Christie, Robinson or O'Dowda were developed through the Irish system. He is right that we had a real drought after 1992, it's great to have players coming through now but there is a huge gap that they need to fill.


1997 looks like a particularly weak year, only Ogbene and Jimmy Dunne really but there are a number of 1998 born players that could still develop into internationals including Masterson, Kelleher, Ronan, Doyle Hayes and Elbouzedi.


RE 1997:


Corrie Whelan could emerge. Less likely rather than more likely at age 22, but he'd have a chance to be a decent championship player if he was in England. Obviously not a regional development player. Obviously Crowley's situation is obvious. Shodipo was an absolute spark for the 21s. If he's playing for QPR, he'd be in the same boat as Ogbene. Then there's Daire O'Connor. Mentioned by both McCarthy and Kenny. Obviously it feels like all LOI players are in a state of limbo and their stock has fallen because we haven't seen them - also his move to a 2nd place Cork was probably ill advised given what happened but if he was playing for a Dundalk or Rovers, he'd be viewed in a very different light... Talbot is also probably among our 10 best keepers, just about.


But yeah, kinda **** year.


At different times there were some hopes for Ryan Sweeney, Paudie O’Connor, Danny Kane, Fuad Sule, Dylan Watts, Darragh Markey and Jordan Shipley but the ship has sailed for most of them by now…

[Olé Olé]

I think Shipley just had a decent year with Coventry and they have been promoted to the Championship so I don't think he sits in with the group you have set out there.

Not sure if Callum O'Hare is still eligible but he looks like signing for Coventry also (born early 98).

[geysir]

Interviewed on Off The Ball
There's little doubt that Kenny's on the job, putting in the hours.

[Yard of Pace]

There's little doubt that Kenny's on the job, putting in the hours.

It's absolutely wonderful. Gladdens my heart.

Trap used to make us feel like we should be grateful that he was getting DVDs sent over to him to see the players.

Also, I think it's beyond important that Kenny seems to know how to talk to people. It always seems to be of benefit to the national team afterwards. I hope we're good because in the off the field stuff he's such a change to Mick, Roy, Stan, Gio, Marco, Jack and I guess, even Brian Kerr.

And one thing on Roy Keane.....he called Andrews clueless or whatever. I remember the Danish friendly away just before him and Martin left. The microphones could pick up Keane bellowing instructions. I like a bit of Roy but he was shouting clichéd nonsense that brought me back to my days playing U-11C football. If that was being clued up for Roy than Andrews sounds grand to me.

[Eirambler]

I worry that Kenny is being put up on such a pedestal that anything other than incredible success will be seen as a disappointment by some.

That said I am more hopeful that I have been in a long time. I am impressed that he doesn't seem to want to play down expectations at all.

I hope he is given time - at least to the end of the Euro 2024 qualifiers. Realistically it is a long shot that we will make Euro 2020 from the position we are in or Qatar 2022 given the limited places for UEFA teams compared to the euros. To qualify for either would be a huge bonus. I fear though that two failed qualification campaigns (albeit one just covering the playoffs) will see the knives out from some corners of the media.

[Olé Olé]

I think implementing a cohesive strategy across our underage and seniors sides, as well as promotions younger players and at least trying to play impressive football will do. I don't think we are they result hungry. I would take a couple of barren years for the above to take place, in the knowledge that it will be beneficial in the medium to long term.

I don't think the knives will be out by all. He is showing enough positives that negative results will have a context. Under previous managers, there were average results and little positives surrounding development etc.

[tetsujin1979]

Kerr failed to qualify in two concsecutive campaigns, after we hadn't finished lower than second under the previous two managers, so I can't see that ending well for Kenny either

[Olé Olé]

Yes but we didn't finish second under Mick. We finished third.

[tetsujin1979]

I meant if Kenny fails to qualify in the next two full campaigns. The play offs for the euros are a bit of a gimme, if he doesn't win both games, I don't think he will be blamed for the result

[Olé Olé]

Regardless, I don't think the Kerr comparison is appropriate. He came in on the back of a fairly successful World Cup campaign for Mick at a time which Mick had an embarrassment of riches.

The past three managers (Trap, MON and Mick) had some decent results but, overall, the football was dour and there was little progression in any direction, I would argue.

As a result, there is a lot of low-hanging fruit for Kenny and he has identified this fruit, based on the utterances of late by him.

Also, with some of the young talent coming through, it is becoming easier for us to replicate the results earned during Mick's tenure. And that is without doing all the other nice stuff.

[Diggs246]

off topic but we are in serous hot water, if Randy gets injured. Alec Fergusson could be our manager and we wouldn't survive without a good keeper

[DeLorean]

Randolph has done fine for us but it's not like he's world class. I'd be hopeful that Travers could do a similar job in an emergency, and hopefully an even better job long-term. Obviously there are others with potential too.

[Diggs246]

My view is travers played one amazing game v spurs and that too much after that.
When u say "obviously there are other with potential" do u mean O'Hata and kelleher, because they are miles off good enough.

[DeLorean]

My view is travers played one amazing game v spurs and that too much after that.
When u say "obviously there are other with potential" do u mean O'Hata and kelleher, because they are miles off good enough.

That's probably fair about Travers, I just have a good feeling about him. :) He's a solid looking unit for a start. I think he saved a few penalties another night which is an extra string to his bow.

I had Bazunu in mind more than Kelleher really. O'Hara, again, could do okay in an emergency situation.

[Olé Olé]

My view is travers played one amazing game v spurs and that too much after that.
When u say "obviously there are other with potential" do u mean O'Hata and kelleher, because they are miles off good enough.

Whatever about Kelleher, how have you concluded that O'Hara is miles off being good enough?

If Bournemouth go down and Ramsdale moves on then Travers is surely the man they will put faith in. Best case scenario from a selfish Irish perspective.

Sean McDermott is an option. But I don't know about the level he is presently playing at. Ian Lawlor has seriously stalled his progress but he's still 25. There's Talbot too.

[tetsujin1979]

Whatever about Kelleher, how have you concluded that O'Hara is miles off being good enough?

If Bournemouth go down and Ramsdale moves on then Travers is surely the man they will put faith in. Best case scenario from a selfish Irish perspective.

Sean McDermott is an option. But I don't know about the level he is presently playing at. Ian Lawlor has seriously stalled his progress but he's still 25. There's Talbot too.

Playing in the Nowegian league with Kristiansund. The 2020 season only started a few weeks ago, but he hasn't been involved in any of their games, even as an unsed substitute.

[geysir]

Kenny has some similarity with Kerr who had shared the glory years with many of the senior players at underage level. There was a degree of optimism just based on that.
Kenny has not the same experience at youth level but there are expectations that one of his strengths is that he's best able to identify and work with the new talent and bring them into a team which is in dire need of infusion, a work in progress generational overhaul.

[Olé Olé]

Playing in the Nowegian league with Kristiansund. The 2020 season only started a few weeks ago, but he hasn't been involved in any of their games, even as an unsed substitute.

Yes. I know that is where he is playing. I don't know about the relative level of that league is my issue.

He is out injured with a thumb injury.

[nigel-harps1954]

I would have a bit of faith that Gavin Bazunu could be the real deal. I know he's only 18, but he could step into a League One side comfortably in the next year. He looked very comfortable playing for Shamrock Rovers at just 16 years of age.

[tetsujin1979]

He's been training with the city first team for the last few weeks, but I doubt he'll see game time.

[Diggs246]

Whatever about Kelleher, how have you concluded that O'Hara is miles off being good enough?
He is 24 playing in a poor third tier team
If Bournemouth go down and Ramsdale moves on then Travers is surely the man they will put faith in. Best case scenario from a selfish Irish perspective.


Sean McDermott is an option. But I don't know about the level he is presently playing at. Ian Lawlor has seriously stalled his progress but he's still 25. There's Talbot too.
Sean McDermott is not strictly playing for a full time professional outfit.
He got a move to an actually pro team in Turkey ( I think) and was ran out of the place

[Diggs246]

Sean McDermott is not strictly playing for a full time professional outfit.
He got a move to an actually pro team in Turkey ( I think) and was ran out of the place

O'hara. .. what has he done? 24 years old playing third tier football

[samhaydenjr]

In the highlights of the Liverpool v Shrewsbury Cup tie, I was watching for Kelleher's performance, but was more impressed by a couple of solid saves by Max O'Leary. If he can break into the Bristol City team next year or get first-team football at another Championship team, he could become a serious contender

[elatedscum]

Sean McDermott is not strictly playing for a full time professional outfit.
He got a move to an actually pro team in Turkey ( I think) and was ran out of the place

That was Romania and it was a philosophical difference with a maniac coach. He played like 3 games in total as far as I remember. Think he kept a clean sheet in his first two, winning man of the match in one. And with the third game, the manager said: I asked for a goalkeeper, not a libero” or something like that...

Imagine a Trap type volatile manager. He got out ASAP. Wouldn’t view it as any reflection on him

[Eirambler]

To be fair to O'Hara he has played almost 100 games of senior football and 24 is young for a keeper. Not saying he's a world beater or anything close but I wouldn't write him off. Has the potential to be a solid Championship keeper like Westwood, Forde, even Randolph to be honest.

I'd like to see Bazunu get some minutes in pre season (if there is a pre season this year), he has been around the first team squad at City quite a bit so that might be a possibility. He's probably too young for a loan move so it will most likely be back to PL2 for him next season. One to keep an eye on though.

[Diggs246]

Terrible news lads big jack has passed away

[paul_oshea]

My view is travers played one amazing game v spurs and that too much after that.
When u say "obviously there are other with potential" do u mean O'Hata and kelleher, because they are miles off good enough.

That's exactly it, a bit like Connolly and the brighton game, but when youre a keeper a couple of mistakes and much bigger consequences/more greatly noticed.

And randolph has been ok for us nothing more than that. But i wouldnt be worried about him playing if he were not playing at club level - so long as weight/agility isnt an issue.

[tetsujin1979]

Thinking a bit more about the three changes Kenny made in midfield between the two games - is he selecting players that suit a role, instead of finding roles to suit the players he has?
McCarthy was replaced by Arter - one defensive midfielder for another
Brady came in for Hourihane - both could be described as an attacking, left footed midfielder, with a wide range of passing, and a threat from set pieces. Hourihane does usually play more centrally than Brady
Molumby and Hendrick - Molumby's season at Millwall could be compared with Hendrick's last season at Derby, before he moved to Bunley

Something to think about

[Stuttgart88]

I think it's clear he's picking players for roles. Arter wasn't really performing his natural role. The other 5 were playing roles that should come naturally enought to them.

It would appear (based on a small sample) that he picks his favoured 433 which is

.......GK
RB CB CB LB
......DM......
--AM---AM
RW--9--LW

9 being a traditional tall centre forward

The debate now I think is whether those ahead of the defence should be

----DM--DM---
-------AM--------
RW----9----LW

or

RM--CM--LM (all generally solid / workers rather than creators)
-----10-----
--CF----CF---

[Bielsa´s irish]

I think it's clear he's picking players for roles. Arter wasn't really performing his natural role. The other 5 were playing roles that should come naturally enought to them.

It would appear (based on a small sample) that he picks his favoured 433 which is

.......GK
RB CB CB LB
......DM......
--AM---AM
RW--9--LW

9 being a traditional tall centre forward

The debate now I think is whether those ahead of the defence should be

----DM--DM---
-------AM--------
RW----9----LW

or

RM--CM--LM (all generally solid / workers rather than creators)
-----10-----
--CF----CF---

I read the Roy Keane article on S:K soooo spot on,
Roy rips his strategy into pieces, and asks for better decisions when a chance arises. He worries about the lack of scoring chances created for the last 5 games, He claims there is no aggressiveness and no urgency in the last third of the pitch, and a growing lack of x factor to take those chances up front

[brine3]

aggressiveness, urgency, x factor... these are buzz words

[tommy_c12000]

One unlucky competitive game, and 4 friendly games used to introduce his style of play. Yes, lacking penetration but hopefully it will come over the next few months as our attacking talent comes through. Early promising signs but patience required. Ridiculously early for judgement

[youngirish]

aggressiveness, urgency, x factor... these are buzz words

I'll give you x-factor but aggressiveness and urgency in football are buzz words? Really? They were the main attributes that Keane built his playing career around.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd assume he's referring to a lack of "lump it up to Jonny Walters"?

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Kenny lives in Ireland I presume. He can't go to LOI matches under restrictions, never mind any UK or Belgium matches or anywhere else. He'll have to sign up for sky sports I suppose and watch match dvd's like Trap used to do. I just googled Trap actually, just to see what he's up to. He's 81 now and he actually hasn't manged anyone after us. Sad way for him to end. We had good days under him though. If we brought him back to help Kenny, we could have a new take on the Robson/Staunton regime. A mixture between Trap's version of Catenaccio and Kenny's version of Barcelona's style. His style In Irish that would be teagmháil - dteagmháil. I don't think that's catchy enough to gain any popularity though.

[Razors left peg]

Kenny lives in Ireland I presume. He can't go to LOI matches under restrictions, never mind any UK or Belgium matches or anywhere else. He'll have to sign up for sky sports I suppose and watch match dvd's like Trap used to do. I just googled Trap actually, just to see what he's up to. He's 81 now and he actually hasn't manged anyone after us. Sad way for him to end. We had good days under him though. If we brought him back to help Kenny, we could have a new take on the Robson/Staunton regime. A mixture between Trap's version of Catenaccio and Kenny's version of Barcelona's style. His style In Irish that would be teagmháil - dteagmháil. I don't think that's catchy enough to gain any popularity though.

I had deleted about 5 different responses I had written to that for fear I'd be banned from the forum... lets just say if you are not joking I disagree strongly!

[tetsujin1979]

Kenny's been to a few games, I've seen him at
Dundalk games on WatchLOI

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Kenny's been to a few games, I've seen him at
Dundalk games on WatchLOI

I meant after level 5 comes in. I suppose he's still working, essential journeys.