Stephen Kenny

[pineapple stu]

I suppose some of it is that the other leagues are going ahead and keeping a head of us. I would say the LOI has improved but the other leagues have also improved. I doubt many leagues are standing still or going backwards.
I think there's less money than before, and more teams to field with that money, so it'd be hard for the league to be better than it was ten years ago (and I don't think it is)

But regardless, even if it's a case that we're standing still while everyone else is advancing past us, I think the point still holds.


I am aware experience needs to be gained but the ability is either there or not.
You could say the same thing about a player though.

You're right of course that "we can all see the same things(mostly) but only a few of us can act them out too". But I think that undersells the role of manager. Some managers are better than others, in the same way that some players are better than others. Motivation, tactical awareness, spotting a player, etc - all these are tangible factors.

A manager from a poor league (such as the LoI) could do well of course. But he had a go in Scotland (as did Fenlon) and didn't last too long. So I think it's reasonable to compare him to someone like Hoban, who also had a stint abroad but didn't fare well. Compare that to someone like, say, Séamus Coleman, who came from a poor league and did do well as a player and you can see the potential difference I'm trying to flag.

[pineapple stu]

he even took Dunfermline to Europe
I think it's also worth flagging that he got them relegated too, which included a run of 5 points and 4 goals in 15 games, and then he won 3 of 14 First Division matches the following season before being sacked. OK, Dunfermline tend to struggle in the SPL anyway, but it's still a poor record.

I agree that he should have been brought into the national setup. And while I don't agree with the "pub league" comment, I do think we need to have some perspective of the LoI's level. Which is poor, albeit not remotely pub-league-y.

[SkStu]

I think it's also worth flagging that he got them relegated too, which included a run of 5 points and 4 goals in 15 games, and then he won 3 of 14 First Division matches the following season before being sacked. OK, Dunfermline tend to struggle in the SPL anyway, but it's still a poor record.

I agree that he should have been brought into the national setup. And while I don't agree with the "pub league" comment, I do think we need to have some perspective of the LoI's level. Which is poor, albeit not remotely pub-league-y.

Yes - i thought the "relegated with Dunfermline" point has been commented on already quite a bit so i just wanted to point out that it wasn't all bad with them!

[pineapple stu]

That's fair enough; I was just trying to add the balance, not remove it alright.

[Trequartista20]

Kenny's contract runs until 31 July, 2022.

'That timespan embraces the remaining seven games this year, including six World Cup qualifiers, three of which take place in the first week of September.'

'The March international window will either involve World Cup play-offs or two friendlies, before a hectic four-game Nations League programme in June.'

' It means over the course of his two-year contract, Kenny will have overseen 26 games.'

https://extra.ie/2021/07/17/sport/soccernews/stephen-kenny-contract-length-ireland

Will Kenny see out his term? And if he does, will Ireland still even be amongst the world's top 100 nations given their disgraceful and humiliating home defeat to 96-ranked Luxembourg recently, and with their only win a rather fortuitous one against the 158-rated amateurs of Andorra?

[pineapple stu]

Strange that his contract runs until July too, rather than the end of the qualifiers, which I would have thought made more sense for any manager.

[jbyrne]

SK on Claire Byrne this morning. came across very well and his enthusiasm for the job and the team is very apparent.
Much more fluent with his answers than he usually is on TV. really hope it works out for him, and us.

[paul_oshea]

Yes listened to a bit and felt the same, but still going on about Slovakia :rolleyes: - the performance I mean.

I did feel though he was buying himself sometime, which he probably should have done at the start and didnt do.

[sbgawa]

Boys in Green will peak for Euro 2024 - Kenny (rte.ie) (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0723/1236842-boys-in-green-will-peak-for-euro-2024-kenny/)

This made me Laugh, Article on RTE website.
With his entire 23 year career in Management to choose from Multiple cup and league wins / European runs etc they refer to him as the "EX Shamrock Rovers Manager" where he spent all of 8 months before getting the Hooooooooook as Brian Kerr would say.

[Colbert Report]

He accepts that questions are inevitable if results are not forthcoming but insists he won't change his approach.

"It’s part of the territory with international management. No matter what country you’re in you’ll always have that," said the 49-year-old former Dundalk boss.

Won't change his approach? We lost to Luxembourg! ffs

[Diggs246]

I didn't realize we had three games in 7 days
Portugal Sep 1st
Azerbaijan Sep 4th
Serbia Sep 7th

I'm going for 1 point out of 9 ?

[John83]

I didn't realize we had three games in 7 days
Portugal Sep 1st
Azerbaijan Sep 4th
Serbia Sep 7th

I'm going for 1 point out of 9 ?
We should still have too much for Azerbaijan - they're more or less on Luxembourg's level - so I think Kenny has to win that one or make a mild upset by beating Serbia to keep his job. Or I would, if he didn't seem to be above shame and protected by the FAI's post-Delaney finances.

[Diggs246]

Unfortunately we don't seem to have too much for anybody at the moment

[Bielsa´s irish]

i watched his interview after the game,,,,he has a rage and a huge anger against the referee of the match, that is very very interesting, they stole you your wallet yesterday

[osarusan]

Kenny should resign or be sacked, tonight.

He is utterly out of his depth, and has no idea whatsoever about breaking down even the poorest of teams.

We can go on and on about how poor this set of players is, and I'd agree, but Kenny has no clue about how to maximise the resources at his disposal.

We earned 1 point out of 6 against teams ranked 96 and 112. Enough rubbish about how we are building something, or going in the right direction. We are going absolutely nowhere under him, nowhere.

500 grand is absolutely enough to attract somebody better than him.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Wait after Serbia

[pineapple stu]

We earned 1 point out of 6 against teams ranked 96 and 112. .
At home. We still have the away ties to come

[TrapAPony]

1 win in 15 matches is not acceptable. He should obviously have been sacked after the Luxembourg match but there is no way he can still continue as Irish manager after failing to beat Azerbaijan at home. Now we will be lucky not to finish bottom of the group. We are going nowhere under Kenny. He is a LOI manager and that is all his level is.

[zero]

what did he have to say for himself after the game, out of interest? or did he send someone else out on his behalf?

edit: the only post match comments from someone involved in the squad that i've been able to find are from adam idah. seems a bit strange. i thought there was some contractual obligation to speak to the press shortly after the game.

[Paddy Garcia]

Anyone know what Stan is up to these days?

[zero]

Just saw what SK had to say about the game. We were class.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/we-are-building-a-very-good-team-stephen-kenny-defends-ireland-reign-after-disappointing-azerbaijan-draw-40818739.html

[placid casual]

if we take it in terms of just viewing the qualifying campaign based on where we are in a group, is this the worst Irish team of all time? we are joint bottom of a qualifying group.
in my 40 yrs watching Ireland I cant remember us being bottom of a group before- anyone know if this is the 1st time?

It not Kennys primary role to speak publicly bout his teams but his speech has always been incoherent and babbling, showing a real sign of unstability.
He was kinda successful with bohs and very successful with dundalk, but died on his ar$e at Rovers, Dunfermline and to a lesser extent derry(i think).

just not good enough, and under any kind of pressure , even worse.
get rid.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Just saw what SK had to say about the game. We were class.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/we-are-building-a-very-good-team-stephen-kenny-defends-ireland-reign-after-disappointing-azerbaijan-draw-40818739.html

****ing spoofer. Leave now.

[SwanVsDalton]

if we take it in terms of just viewing the qualifying campaign based on where we are in a group, is this the worst Irish team of all time? we are joint bottom of a qualifying group.
in my 40 yrs watching Ireland I cant remember us being bottom of a group before- anyone know if this is the 1st time?

It not Kennys primary role to speak publicly bout his teams but his speech has always been incoherent and babbling, showing a real sign of unstability.
He was kinda successful with bohs and very successful with dundalk, but died on his ar$e at Rovers, Dunfermline and to a lesser extent derry(i think).

just not good enough, and under any kind of pressure , even worse.
get rid.

He was a huge success at Derry, both stints. Should've won at least one league, maybe two, which is probably what you're getting at but guided the club's best modern seasons outside of the Jim McLaughlin-era. Him leaving (twice!) was a lot more damaging than anything that happened on the pitch.

He's also very thoughtful, and emotionally honest, in front of the media, albeit not the most charismatic or smooth talker - I think what you're seeing is someone trying not to fall into any traps and strike whatever he sees as the right tone rather than outright incoherence imo.

[DCWA]

Yeah to use terms like incoherent (and actually to say he has always been like that) and talk of showing signs of instability about Kenny is laughable and way off the mark as regards the man and manager. That is regardless of anyones opinion on whether he should continue as Ireland manager or not.

He is held in the highest regard at Derry City and is by far the best LOI manager I have seen in my lifetime. It is not working out and is probably approaching the end but he should not be treated with outright disrespect as a manager in this country, because in terms of club football at the least he is the finest there has been for some time.

[Bielsa´s irish]

realistically as kerr said the Luxemburg result was the fate. Serbia with a draw but with the same results vs Luxemburg was the same. Ireland waited a draw a victory a defeat or draw vs Portugal and a victory yesterday. so 7 or 8 points and we got 1. nevertheless I wouldnt sack him, he must resign after the the end of campaign and work in a replacement.

The team improved a lot in certain areas but as your Richard Dunne said the improvement must be connected with points on the board, otherwise there is none.

A symbol of Kenny in his tenure is bad luck like your banshee folk personnage, when something could go wrong goes wrong . Key players out injuries etc etc.

I will keep him until the end to get the maximun of points and now there is nothing to get pressured from.. they should play with more freedom, one thing i didnt like is the lack of pressure from the 3 youth frontmen in the first 30 minutes, they are young work your socks off. as Stapleton and Aldridge did..

[Colbert Report]

Yeah to use terms like incoherent (and actually to say he has always been like that) and talk of showing signs of instability about Kenny is laughable and way off the mark as regards the man and manager. That is regardless of anyones opinion on whether he should continue as Ireland manager or not.

He is held in the highest regard at Derry City and is by far the best LOI manager I have seen in my lifetime. It is not working out and is probably approaching the end but he should not be treated with outright disrespect as a manager in this country, because in terms of club football at the least he is the finest there has been for some time.

I don't want to be accused of winding anyone up, and I understand that this is a LOI fan forum, so I'm genuinely not trying to get a rise here. The standard of play in the LOI is terrible. I watched the best team in the league get outplayed over two legs a couple of weeks ago by a team by Estonia. One of the goals that the goalkeeper from Shamrock Rovers conceded would have him dropped from a recreational five-a-side team instantly. It was embarrassing to watch. The LOI is really holding the national team back because you have a bunch of fans that support these no-hoper clubs clinging onto a guy like Stephen Kenny who did well managing against a bunch of part-time players. The fully professional leagues are a huge step up.

Of course he doesn't have a great pool of players to pick from, but we have a group of players mostly playing in the English Championship, and a few in the Premier League, although I note that he somehow didn't even call up Ciaran Clark, who has over 200 Premier League appearances to his name and was fully fit and available for selection. We should be able to handle the likes of Azerbaijan handily. I get that his whole thing is taking us away from playing hoofball and keeping the ball on the ground, but at some point he has to admit that we just don't have the players for that style of football. As others have mentioned, at the international level, you adjust your style to fit the players available, not the other way around. Kenny's unwillingness to inability to change things up when they're clearly not working is why I'm calling for him to be sacked. Surely any reasonable person would expect him to change his ways or resign?

[Supreme feet]

I get that his whole thing is taking us away from playing hoofball and keeping the ball on the ground, but at some point he has to admit that we just don't have the players for that style of football.

We don't have the players for hoofball either.

It worked (at times) under Trap because we had effective battering rams up front (Doyle, Walters) and our greatest ever poacher to feed off the chaos. We also had a cohort of wingers (Duff, McGeady, Hunt, Lawrence) who could get decent crosses in or win free-kicks.

It worked (at times) under MON because we had Walters and Daryl Murphy to bully defenders and create havoc, and the pace of Long and McClean to hit teams on the break. Along with Hoolahan to create things when we won the second ball in the opponent's half.

Who's our big, tough, alpha-male centre-forward now? James Collins?!

We have no goal-poacher. No #10. No really effective wide players. No set-piece experts. The idea that we're this big, strong aggressive side that can bully other teams is, quite frankly, laughable. Josh Cullen is our best #6, and he's 5'9".

I think you've got this idea in your head that the Continental sides are made up of lah-di-dah, wine-sniffing, midget dilettantes who can't handle the rough and tumble of our brave Warriors of Éireann. That's nonsense. The Azeri defenders were all big, strong lads who were well able for the direct game. Man-for-man, we are physically dwarfed by the Serbs, and we saw what happened in 2017 when we tried to hoof them into submission.

[Colbert Report]

The only way I see us getting results with the pool of players we have available is to defend deep in numbers, then try to score off a quick counter-attack or a set piece off Shane Duffy's head. Yes, I know it is atrocious and boring to watch, but we must choose between that and losing to the likes of Luxembourg.

[sadloserkid]

I don't want to be accused of winding anyone up, and I understand that this is a LOI fan forum, so I'm genuinely not trying to get a rise here. The standard of play in the LOI is terrible. I watched the best team in the league get outplayed over two legs a couple of weeks ago by a team by Estonia. One of the goals that the goalkeeper from Shamrock Rovers conceded would have him dropped from a recreational five-a-side team instantly. It was embarrassing to watch. The LOI is really holding the national team back because you have a bunch of fans that support these no-hoper clubs clinging onto a guy like Stephen Kenny who did well managing against a bunch of part-time players. The fully professional leagues are a huge step up.

I'm a fan of one of those 'no-hoper clubs' and I absolutely love the league. I also think Kenny is failing miserably in his current role.

Don't worry about getting a rise though, sincerely. I truly believe you're the least knowledgeable poster I've ever seen on this forum with such a weird, reactive take on specific one off events that I doubt anybody with get particularly upset at your latest eh... insights.

[Olé Olé]

I have been pro Kenny for quite a while and I'd rather he stayed in situ but he is remarkably inconsistent on a lot of fronts.

He gives with one hand by playing Bazunu and Idah and getting serious international experience into two young talented players who have the capacity to be fixtures in our side for 10 years. He takes away then by not starting Omobamidele and putting McClean in instead. I can't fathom that one.

I thought Hendrick did okay against Portugal. And he gets dropped for Molumby who hasn't much football played recently and probably since January. Again, I don't follow the thinking.

And then he whips Connolly at half time, which wasn't completely out of order but a little strange to do it so early, and brings in Horgan. Horgan has been okay for us against decent sides but I don't think he's going to turn a game on its head.

Another aspect that he seems to be unsure of is his formation. He told anyone that would listen he likes 4-3-3, didn't he? Or was it 4-2-3-1? That quickly changed now to wingbacks.

On most of the points above, I don't have a strong view either way but it feels like Kenny doesn't either. I thought the concept of Coleman moving into a three man defence sums that up for me. Kenny didn't know whether to go back to a 4 man defence or keep the wingbacks. So he just stuck a full back into the 3 as some sort of compromise for himself.

I admire a lot of what he does and at least most of what he does seems well intended. But he doesn't have the players or depth of players or volume of in form players to cover up for his mistakes. Effectively dropping Omobamidele, Hendrick and McGrath for McClean, Molumby and Parrott to facilitate a slight change in shape and account for the step down in quality of opposition isn't guaranteed to succeed because the lads coming in haven't been particularly good at this level under Kenny. So, even if the ideas had their merit, hoping that it works out doesn't really do the trick.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Why isn't Kenny getting hounded out of the job? Every single game he has a long list of excuses. He's only won one game. That was a friendly against Andorra. With mostly the same players, Mick McCarthy only lost 1 game and came very close to qualifying us for the euros. Now we're battling it out with Azerbaijan to see who comes last in our group. Luxembourg are miles ahead of us. Kenny has the worst managerial record in our history. He can barely put a coherent sentence together. He's damaging any emerging talent with these embarrassing performances. He's driving us so far back the rankings that it will take years to recover. His time in charge has been an unmitigated disaster.

Yet, he is getting far less criticism than previous managers. It's been obvious for a long time that Kenny is completely out of his depth. His pals in the media and others who backed him need to put their pride to one side and admit they got this wrong. Kenny is doing serious damage and most of all, he's giving validation to previous managers who decided we couldn't play a passing game. Kenny is driving us back to the long ball gameplan.

[placid casual]

I don't want to be accused of winding anyone up, and I understand that this is a LOI fan forum, so I'm genuinely not trying to get a rise here. The standard of play in the LOI is terrible. I watched the best team in the league get outplayed over two legs a couple of weeks ago by a team by Estonia. One of the goals that the goalkeeper from Shamrock Rovers conceded would have him dropped from a recreational five-a-side team instantly. It was embarrassing to watch. The LOI is really holding the national team back because you have a bunch of fans that support these no-hoper clubs clinging onto a guy like Stephen Kenny who did well managing against a bunch of part-time players. The fully professional leagues are a huge step up.

Of course he doesn't have a great pool of players to pick from, but we have a group of players mostly playing in the English Championship, and a few in the Premier League, although I note that he somehow didn't even call up Ciaran Clark, who has over 200 Premier League appearances to his name and was fully fit and available for selection. We should be able to handle the likes of Azerbaijan handily. I get that his whole thing is taking us away from playing hoofball and keeping the ball on the ground, but at some point he has to admit that we just don't have the players for that style of football. As others have mentioned, at the international level, you adjust your style to fit the players available, not the other way around. Kenny's unwillingness to inability to change things up when they're clearly not working is why I'm calling for him to be sacked. Surely any reasonable person would expect him to change his ways or resign?

What a load of laughable horse€hit.
If you fell into a barrel of clues, you'd still manage to emerge without even the slightest clue.
As for the LOI holding the international team back, you have that ar€e about face my friend
It's the international team, and it's lemming support, which is holding the LOI back.

[paul_oshea]

I have been pro Kenny for quite a while and I'd rather he stayed in situ but he is remarkably inconsistent on a lot of fronts.

He gives with one hand by playing Bazunu and Idah and getting serious international experience into two young talented players who have the capacity to be fixtures in our side for 10 years. He takes away then by not starting Omobamidele and putting McClean in instead. I can't fathom that one.

I thought Hendrick did okay against Portugal. And he gets dropped for Molumby who hasn't much football played recently and probably since January. Again, I don't follow the thinking.

And then he whips Connolly at half time, which wasn't completely out of order but a little strange to do it so early, and brings in Horgan. Horgan has been okay for us against decent sides but I don't think he's going to turn a game on its head.

Another aspect that he seems to be unsure of is his formation. He told anyone that would listen he likes 4-3-3, didn't he? Or was it 4-2-3-1? That quickly changed now to wingbacks.

On most of the points above, I don't have a strong view either way but it feels like Kenny doesn't either. I thought the concept of Coleman moving into a three man defence sums that up for me. Kenny didn't know whether to go back to a 4 man defence or keep the wingbacks. So he just stuck a full back into the 3 as some sort of compromise for himself.

I admire a lot of what he does and at least most of what he does seems well intended. But he doesn't have the players or depth of players or volume of in form players to cover up for his mistakes. Effectively dropping Omobamidele, Hendrick and McGrath for McClean, Molumby and Parrott to facilitate a slight change in shape and account for the step down in quality of opposition isn't guaranteed to succeed because the lads coming in haven't been particularly good at this level under Kenny. So, even if the ideas had their merit, hoping that it works out doesn't really do the trick.


That's a really fair post ole, expect things to happen. It's like a poor chef buying all the ingredients, throwing them into the pot then come back an hour and a half later wondering what's this mess he's cooked and why it doesn't taste like chicken jalfrezi. He's compromising ingredients to a compromised method and not getting the best out of the ingredients.

[boovidge]

Why isn't Kenny getting hounded out of the job? Every single game he has a long list of excuses. He's only won one game. That was a friendly against Andorra. With mostly the same players, Mick McCarthy only lost 1 game and came very close to qualifying us for the euros. Now we're battling it out with Azerbaijan to see who comes last in our group. Luxembourg are miles ahead of us. Kenny has the worst managerial record in our history. He can barely put a coherent sentence together. He's damaging any emerging talent with these embarrassing performances. He's driving us so far back the rankings that it will take years to recover. His time in charge has been an unmitigated disaster.

Yet, he is getting far less criticism than previous managers. It's been obvious for a long time that Kenny is completely out of his depth. His pals in the media and others who backed him need to put their pride to one side and admit they got this wrong. Kenny is doing serious damage and most of all, he's giving validation to previous managers who decided we couldn't play a passing game. Kenny is driving us back to the long ball gameplan.

The fact that our squad is so poor is definitely making me pretty indifferent to whether he stays or goes. Yes, the performances and results have been atrocious but even a top manager wouldn't get us anywhere near qualifying. We might as well just let his contract run down.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

The fact that our squad is so poor is definitely making me pretty indifferent to whether he stays or goes. Yes, the performances and results have been atrocious but even a top manager wouldn't get us anywhere near qualifying. We might as well just let his contract run down.

That's just not going to wash because McCarthy had a similar level of players. For his last game in charge, we absolutely battered Denmark. The same Denmark who made the Euro semi finals. Only defeat was away to Switzerland who also had a very good euros. He had some poor performances but the excuses trotted out now for Kenny weren't tolerated then. We went from one manager nearly qualifying and only losing one game in 10 to the next manager coming joint last and only winning one match in 15 games.

Get rid of him now before he does more damage!

[pineapple stu]

I think the players have changed a bit now in fairness.

Randolph hasn't played a league game in two years.

Stevens is injured. Clark isn't in the squad (not sure why). Whelan and McGoldrick have retired. Maguire has vanished really. McClean isn't the player he was. That's a lot of change. The replacements are poor

McCarthy is a better manager than Kenny for sure. But you can't ignore the player factor either.

[brine3]

I am pro making Ireland play better football but I'm not seeing it to be honest. I want Kenny to succeed, but he's not delivering. We are halfway through the group and we have 1 point. We are five points behind Luxembourg.

I'd like to think we are building for the future but does anyone see us suddenly playing brilliant football when the Euro 2024 qualifiers start?

Also, the frustration I had in the past with Irish managers is that they were afraid to blood young players, or pick skilful players. But back then we were talking about players who were playing week in, week out at a very good level. For example, Marc Wilson, Wes Hoolahan were ignored for years by Trap. Now, we seem to be playing young players for the sake of playing young players. Jason Molumby is on loan to West Brom's bench.

Or we are picking certain players to fit a system, such as yesterday. James McClean is in League 1 now. Surely we should be playing a system that starts Callum Robinson, and gets Coleman and Doherty, or two best players, in their favoured positions bombing up the wings?

None of it really makes sense to me anymore.

As people are pointing out, the more this goes on, people are going to start associating passing football with losing, and there will be a kneejerk reaction will be to appoint some kind of hoofball manager. Rather than building for the future, there could be long term damage.

[Dave77]

I’m a “no hoper” club fan. I actually don’t particularly like the term “LOI fan”. I’m a football fan, my club plays in the 2nd tier of Irish football. I lived in Scotland for a while and I went regularly to a club in the 2nd tier of Scottish football, no one there described me as a Scottish championship supporter.

What I find strange is that Irish football fans (supporters of English teams) seem to think that all “loi fans” think the same. I know people who don’t rate Kenny at all who support bohs for example. I think “loi fans” have seen how little investment in irish football has meant Irish football has declined. Most countries in Europe are investing heavily in football, we are not. And it seems to be the plan that some irish fans don’t want investment.

Also I can not understand why some Irish fans don’t want our league to improve, you don’t need to support it I don’t really care, if you think supporting a club is tele and the odd game every so often that’s your call, fair play. We must be the only country in world football where we don’t want our own domestic clubs/game and most importantly players/ coaches to improve. How could our domestic game improving harm our international team? It just means another way in which players can come through our system.


On Kenny I like his approach. Mainly that he regularly is attending games at every level to see Irish players. I love he doesn’t say our players are not good enough. I like that he really understands Irish football. Also he has not blamed covid, no fans, or simply bad luck with all of the above. However his results are not good enough. Personally I would keep him and give him euro campaign. No doubt the anti domestic football crowd will get louder and he probably will be gone (and results would justify it). But it might not be the benefit for long term of Irish football but what do I know I support a no hoper Irish football club. Wouldn’t the world be a better place if we all just supported the top 6 clubs in the world, now that would be fantastic!!! And magically Irish international team would improve because that pesky loi is holding back Irish football

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I think the players have changed a bit now in fairness.

Randolph hasn't played a league game in two years.

Stevens is injured. Clark isn't in the squad (not sure why). Whelan and McGoldrick have retired. Maguire has vanished really. McClean isn't the player he was. That's a lot of change. The replacements are poor

McCarthy is a better manager than Kenny for sure. But you can't ignore the player factor either.

This is the team v Denmark:

Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Browne, Hendrick, Whelan, Hourihane, McClean, McGoldrick

Is that really any stronger than what Kenny has? McGoldrick yes but Ireland's best player is Seamus Coleman and he was missing.

Is Steven's any better than Doherty? Is Whelan any better than Cullen? Is McGuire better than Idah? Most would say the opposite.

We've gone far backwards under Kenny. There are no mitigating circumstances. His reign has been a complete failure.

[Insidetherock]

Why do people keep saying "we don't have the players to play the ball on the ground"?

Seriously?

How true can this be?

Any youngster playing pro football in England has excelled right through underage, and managed to get himself a contract to play. They can play football

We've Duffy, Egan, Coleman, Doherty, Hendrick, Connolly, Idah, Omabomidele, starting.. all Premier League footballers, regardless of whether they're regular starters, or playing with "top clubs".. they're Premier League players

They can play ball.

In my opinion, we're in transition.. and damn its hard. But we're going to have to do it sometime.

If we finish this campaign with 3-4 players as pretty well certain starters eg Idah, Connolly, Cullen, Bazunu.. then we can add them to Duffy, Egan, Doherty, Coleman and have the nucleus of a team for the next 2-3 campaigns

But a transition has to start somewhere

[Colbert Report]

I'm all in favour of a better domestic league. I can't imagine it being any more of a joke than it is right now. For a whole host of reasons, the domestic league has gone backwards, not forwards, over the last ten years. When was the last time we had a player who played for a LOI club actually make an impact for the international team? Has it ever happened? Anyone good enough to play professional football is snapped up by a British club as early as possible. I think Bazunu was sixteen when he went to Manchester City.

Keith Fahey is about the only player I can remember that was good enough for the international team, and he only chose to play in the LOI for personal reasons, despite being good enough to play in England. Damien Duff came back for a cup of coffee before retiring. Kevin Doyle moved to Reading sixteen years ago, and Seamus Coleman twelve years ago. All the rest of the so-called LOI superstars have failed to make any kind of impact outside of Ireland, and some mid-table team in Cyprus just released Jack Byrne because he wasn't good enough to play for them. Richie Towell couldn't make it in non-league football in England. Michael Duffy couldn't make it playing non-league football in Scotland. Sean McGuire can't even get a call up to the national squad. Daryl Horgan is a benchwarmer at Wycombe. These are all PFAI Players' Player of the Year winners! Maybe putting a manager in charge from a league of that kind of caliber wasn't the best idea.

[brine3]

Coleman will be 33 next month.

[pineapple stu]

This is the team v Denmark:

Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Browne, Hendrick, Whelan, Hourihane, McClean, McGoldrick

Is that really any stronger than what Kenny has? McGoldrick yes but Ireland's best player is Seamus Coleman and he was missing.

Is Steven's any better than Doherty? Is Whelan any better than Cullen? Is McGuire better than Idah? Most would say the opposite.
I think it is stronger.

Doherty played both games so you can't compare him with Stevens. Maguire didn't start so it's not reasonable to compare to Idah.

Randolph and McGoldrick are better than Bazunu and Parrott. Idah and Connolly would both weaken than Mick team but I can't see who he had up front. Maybe he played a more pragmatic formation. McClean is not the player he was. That's half the team.

It's mostly our attacking players who are getting weaker and that's what we're seeing - we're not conceding that many, but we're scoring less than ever.

Again, I don't disagree that Kenny is not as good a manager as Mick. But the players are weaker

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I think it is stronger.

Doherty played both games so you can't compare him with Stevens. Maguire didn't start so it's not reasonable to compare to Idah.

Randolph and McGoldrick are better than Bazunu and Parrott. Idah and Connolly would both weaken than Mick team but I can't see who he had up front. Maybe he played a more pragmatic formation. McClean is not the player he was. That's half the team.

It's mostly our attacking players who are getting weaker and that's what we're seeing - we're not conceding that many, but we're scoring less than ever.

Again, I don't disagree that Kenny is not as good a manager as Mick. But the players are weaker

Randolph better than Bazunu, yes. The defence for Kenny was stronger as Coleman is better than Stevens. Midfield available for Kenny is better as Cullen is superior to Whelan. McClean was not on good form then either, Connolly about equal and Kenny had Robbinson on the bench. McGoldrick better than Idah. So overall about the same level of team.

Kenny one win in 15 against Andorra. McCarthy one defeat in 10 against Switzerland.

[sadloserkid]

I'm all in favour of a better domestic league. I can't imagine it being any more of a joke than it is right now. For a whole host of reasons, the domestic league has gone backwards, not forwards, over the last ten years. When was the last time we had a player who played for a LOI club actually make an impact for the international team? Has it ever happened? Anyone good enough to play professional football is snapped up by a British club as early as possible. I think Bazunu was sixteen when he went to Manchester City.

Keith Fahey is about the only player I can remember that was good enough for the international team, and he only chose to play in the LOI for personal reasons, despite being good enough to play in England. Damien Duff came back for a cup of coffee before retiring. Kevin Doyle moved to Reading sixteen years ago, and Seamus Coleman twelve years ago. All the rest of the so-called LOI superstars have failed to make any kind of impact outside of Ireland, and some mid-table team in Cyprus just released Jack Byrne because he wasn't good enough to play for them. Richie Towell couldn't make it in non-league football in England. Michael Duffy couldn't make it playing non-league football in Scotland. Sean McGuire can't even get a call up to the national squad. Daryl Horgan is a benchwarmer at Wycombe. These are all PFAI Players' Player of the Year winners! Maybe putting a manager in charge from a league of that kind of caliber wasn't the best idea.

Where your witless, plastic, soccerball theory falls down though is that there were zero LOI players on the pitch against Azerbaijan but lots and lots from the British system that you're so in thrall too. It's not the fault of any of the players that weren't there. There were 4 players from the third tier of English football on the pitch, that's a very low water mark for us as a nation. You seem completely wedded to a linear theory that every player at a certain level is better than every player at a level below.

I think Kenny should go, for whatever that's worth, but thinking that somehow delegitimises the whole league moves the whole weird, sweaty theory of yours way beyond uninformed and into the realms of profoundly lacking even a basic grasp on how the game works. And if you think that simply replacing Kenny is going to turn us into a competitive outfit with a click of the fingers... well that would pretty much match what I'd expect to be honest.

Instead you're spewing inane tactical revelations as though you're Guardiola and Klopp all rolled into on, using a single goalkeeper error (from a Northern Irish international as it happens) as your silver bullet to write off the domestic league. Presumably when Taibi happened you dismissed the Premier League just as fervently. I suspect, as a self-proclaimed Championship afficionado, that you were prattling on in just as tiresome a fashion on a Stoke City website somewhere warning them off Michael O'Neill too.

I'll reiterate, again, that I'm not even a little bit pro-Kenny and there isn't a player in the LOI today that I'd have in the Irish squad currently if everybody was fit but you're shockingly, hilariously fond of a baseless, sweeping statement.

[pineapple stu]

Randolph better than Bazunu, yes. The defence for Kenny was stronger as Coleman is better than Stevens. Midfield available for Kenny is better as Cullen is superior to Whelan. McClean was not on good form then either, Connolly about equal and Kenny had Robbinson on the bench. McGoldrick better than Idah. So overall about the same level of team.

Kenny one win in 15 against Andorra. McCarthy one defeat in 10 against Switzerland.
Defence isn't our problem though. McClean was far better then than now. Connolly about equal with who? Connolly is rubbish. Connolly/Idah/Parrott are toothless kids up front, so goals have dropped off a bit from Mick's time, that puts us under more pressure defensively, and we've crossed a key balance point between the two which we've been saying for years would come. So not the same level of team for me.

The bigger issue of course remains the disaster of a domestic football structure, which we're really starting to struggle from now. There's been slight improvements lately with underage academies, but we're still far behind most of Europe. Kenny is a sideshow compared to that - albeit, as I say, there are legitimate questions about him too.

But this is a perfect storm of a multitude of issues

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Defence isn't our problem though. McClean was far better then than now. Connolly about equal with who? Connolly is rubbish. Connolly/Idah/Parrott are toothless kids up front, so goals have dropped off a bit from Mick's time, that puts us under more pressure defensively, and we've crossed a key balance point between the two which we've been saying for years would come. So not the same level of team for me.

The bigger issue of course remains the disaster of a domestic football structure, which we're really starting to struggle from now. There's been slight improvements lately with underage academies, but we're still far behind most of Europe. Kenny is a sideshow compared to that - albeit, as I say, there are legitimate questions about him too.

But this is a perfect storm of a multitude of issues

McCarthy started games with this rubbish Connolly. McClean has been rubbish for a good few years. McCarthy had Whelan, Hendrick and Hourihan in his midfield selections. Games with Long up front. Even McGoldrick only ever scored one goal for Ireland. McCarthy and Kenny's squads were equally as toothless. The myth that Kenny has a weaker squad than McCarthy is just another attempt to excuse Kenny.

Yes, there are loads of major issues to fix but Kenny isn't the solution to any of them.

[pineapple stu]

Connolly didn't play v Denmark. I don't know why you're bringing him in here.

I agree with your conclusion, but our squad is definitely weaker now. Shane Long under Mick was a Premier League regular. He and McGoldrick weren't banging in the goals, but they were better than what we have now.

[Bielsa´s irish]

The main responsable is Kenny. He picks up the team. Mindset etc. Some of his decisions are odd. I like youngsters but as Kerr said not all at the same time.