Stephen Kenny

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Connolly didn't play v Denmark. I don't know why you're bringing him in here.

I agree with your conclusion, but our squad is definitely weaker now. Shane Long under Mick was a Premier League regular. He and McGoldrick weren't banging in the goals, but they were better than what we have now.

We're comparing what McCarthy had available to Kenny and it clearly isn't a drop off at all. Mainly because they're mostly the same players. Kenny has had Long available, he even had McGoldrick. He has had better defensive options, better midfield options and some players with potential coming through. If anything, Kenny has had a stronger selection to pick from.

McCarthy was lambasted during his tenure despite actually being competitive. Kenny has us bottom of the table and he's getting off very lightly.

[SkStu]

He made three big selection mistakes yesterday.

1. Playing a front three instead of 2 plus an attacking midfielder (compounded by not playing Parrott where he plays best).
2. Changing the wing backs (compounded by playing McClean) instead of just giving them license to attack and keeping Omobamidele.
3. Starting Molumby ahead of Hendrick.

He did not manage the game well at all in the first half. Why it took to h/t to recharge the team is unforgivable and cost us a stupid goal that made the task in the second half close to insurmountable given how the Azeris were set up.

We did play well in the second half and created more than enough chances to win building well in possession to create crossing opportunities. The players are playing for him; they’re buying in and listening. He can be credited for the turnaround but can’t be blamed for the missed chances.

While Portugal was a whole bunch of check marks in the plus column and very few negatives, last night was the opposite. A bad showing from him.

Tough to see how he can win people over from here so his goose is cooked now in reality, no matter what. I personally still give him the rest of this campaign and possibly the right to start the next campaign depending on the remaining games and results. Sacking him and replacing him now changes very little in the grand scheme. We’re a team in transition with a paucity of viable players; very few are getting games for their clubs; there’s no one being left out that really changes our strength in a meaningful way. Our problems and prospects go far beyond Kenny being the manager or not.

[paul_oshea]

On the McCarthy v Kenny thing I think it's very unfair on McCarthy he had a year or so and he had a particular job which was in situ for Kenny. His mandate was qualify for the euros at all costs. So he setup the best way and safebet to get the best possible results out of what he had available. So comparing is unfair given how poor and short time he had with the players. There's absolutely no comparison between what he achieved in a similar time frame to Kenny

I think you can only compare his first tenure which were under similar circumstances.

[pineapple stu]

We're comparing what McCarthy had available to Kenny and it clearly isn't a drop off at all. Mainly because they're mostly the same players. Kenny has had Long available, he even had McGoldrick. He has had better defensive options, better midfield options and some players with potential coming through. If anything, Kenny has had a stronger selection to pick from.

McCarthy was lambasted during his tenure despite actually being competitive. Kenny has us bottom of the table and he's getting off very lightly.
No, you were specifically comparing the Denmark line-up (and went so far as to list it). Connolly didn't play in that.

Long was a Premier League regular two years ago; now he's past it. I think he's only in the squad out of desperation. You can't compare Shane Long of today and of 2019 and say they're the same player. They are in name only - but not in ability.

"If anything, Kenny has had a stronger selection to pick from" - no, he hasn't. In nets and up front, we are significantly weaker. You've acknowledged the keeper. Parrott/Connolly/Idah is the worst front line we've ever had. "Players with potential coming through" - that's what the U21s are for, not the senior squad. "Players with potential" are worth **** all at senior international level

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

No, you were specifically comparing the Denmark line-up (and went so far as to list it). Connolly didn't play in that.

Long was a Premier League regular two years ago; now he's past it. I think he's only in the squad out of desperation. You can't compare Shane Long of today and of 2019 and say they're the same player. They are in name only - but not in ability.

"If anything, Kenny has had a stronger selection to pick from" - no, he hasn't. In nets and up front, we are significantly weaker. You've acknowledged the keeper. Parrott/Connolly/Idah is the worst front line we've ever had. "Players with potential coming through" - that's what the U21s are for, not the senior squad. "Players with potential" are worth **** all at senior international level

I picked the Denmark game as an example. We have been discussing the strength of the squads and the options available to both. Shane Long didn't play any games under McCarthy. So I don't know what your 2019 point is all about?

Randolph has been around throughout Kenny's tenure so keeper has been equal. Defensive options are stronger under Kenny, as are midfield options. McGoldrick is the only player McCarthy had available who's stronger and Kenny had him available for a short while also. There was a number of games where James Collins was the striker under McCarthy as McGoldrick wasn't available. In fact, against Switzerland away our front 3 was Collins, McClean and the 'rubbish' Connolly. That might just challenge your worst front line we've ever had claim.

Looking at the facts, the squads available to both are and were very similar in standard. Trying to claim otherwise is just ridiculous. McCarthy's record was played 10, won 5, drew 4, lost 1. Kenny's is played 15, won 1, drew 7, lost 7.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Yes with the results here the Kenny tenure is an unsustainable situation tbh. thats why the national team is bigger than any coach or player. When Jack Charlton couldnt take his ageing key players to the Italia 90 world cup was because one was injured ( Tony Galvin) and the other one fell out with him (Liam Brady) Charlton actually he replaced Brady with Ronnie Whelan the problem was Ronnie Whelan got injured just before the world cup. He took Stapleton but he regretted because he wanted to play.

National team interest is more vital and important than any coach or any footballer .

The new coach has to be someone with passion who plays attractive footie and a motivator like Mark Hughes or maybe Eddie Howe

Lennon has the passion though but not so sure, the rest of the names are almost retired

[pineapple stu]

But you keep saying X was available to both without considering what's happened to them in the last two years. Randolph has barely played in that time; McClean and Hourihane have dropped a division - they're clearly not as good now as they were two years ago.

How did Mick do in Switzerland with that forward line which resembles a Kenny forward line?

Bottom line is our form for the past decade has been on a linear downward trend. We've just crossed the place where now Mick's draws in Georgia or narrow wins against Gibraltar are turning into worse results. This was always going to happen unfortunately.

[brine3]

Bottom line is our form for the past decade has been on a linear downward trend.

It's tightly correlated with the increase in transfer fees in England. With all the big money in English football at the moment, they can buy all the stars of the world. The English clubs make sure their best English prospects get starts, but there's less and less room for the young Irish, who get turned into Championship loan cannon fodder. Imagine Paul McGrath or Ronnie Whelan being loan players at Preston until the age of 23. They wouldn't be the same players. Roy Keane went from LOI First Division Cobh Ramblers straight into the first team at Forest, who were in the top tier at the time. It doesn't work like that any more.

So we need to stop haemorrhaging players to England. That involves improving LOI and Irish youth structures, and also encouraging players who feel they have outgrown Ireland to look at places like Spain, Italy, France, Holland, where tactical and technical development is encouraged. And in some leagues, like Spain (and Italy I think) there is a limit of non-EU players in a team, so Irish players can use their EU status to their advantage.

[ontheotherhand]

Where your witless, plastic, soccerball theory falls down though is that there were zero LOI players on the pitch against Azerbaijan but lots and lots from the British system that you're so in thrall too. It's not the fault of any of the players that weren't there. There were 4 players from the third tier of English football on the pitch, that's a very low water mark for us as a nation. You seem completely wedded to a linear theory that every player at a certain level is better than every player at a level below.

I think Kenny should go, for whatever that's worth, but thinking that somehow delegitimises the whole league moves the whole weird, sweaty theory of yours way beyond uninformed and into the realms of profoundly lacking even a basic grasp on how the game works. And if you think that simply replacing Kenny is going to turn us into a competitive outfit with a click of the fingers... well that would pretty much match what I'd expect to be honest.

Instead you're spewing inane tactical revelations as though you're Guardiola and Klopp all rolled into on, using a single goalkeeper error (from a Northern Irish international as it happens) as your silver bullet to write off the domestic league. Presumably when Taibi happened you dismissed the Premier League just as fervently. I suspect, as a self-proclaimed Championship afficionado, that you were prattling on in just as tiresome a fashion on a Stoke City website somewhere warning them off Michael O'Neill too.

I'll reiterate, again, that I'm not even a little bit pro-Kenny and there isn't a player in the LOI today that I'd have in the Irish squad currently if everybody was fit but you're shockingly, hilariously fond of a baseless, sweeping statement.

I think he is trying to play a satirical character who attempts to be funny by taking contrarian, ridiculous, easily debunked, nonsensical opinions. I think he's trying to be the foot.ie version of Stephen Colbert from the tv show that he took his name from. If not...well....best ignored either way really.

[samhaydenjr]

I just wanted to note one thing - one of the big arguments put forward by Kenny supporters (particularly in a couple of articles I read recently on 42.ie) is that he should be given more time because he is bravely giving young talent a break, while previous managers (like Mick) stuck with experienced journeyman, thus stopping the team from being as good as it could be - this ignores the fact that Mick had little time for experimenting, yet still gave debuts to Mark Travers, Kieran O'Hara, Aaron Connolly, Josh Cullen, Lee O'Connor, Troy Parrott, Jack Byrne and, er, James Collins. He also wasted a trip to Holland to see if Dan Crowley was worth adding to the team.

Kenny had a number of friendlies and a Nations League campaign to improve the squad both in terms of personnel and playing style and, while he has continued to bring in players who will undoubtedly form a big part of our squad in the coming decade, he hasn't got them playing in a competitive manner and, at the end of the day, that's what matters.

Thanks to the development of a lot of youth over the past few years (which Kenny played a part in, TBF), we will have a great opportunity to qualify for the next Euros as we will have a mix of youth and experience, but it is vitally important that we have the correct manager. At this point I would say that Kenny is not that manager, but that he has four games to prove otherwise

[ontheotherhand]

I just wanted to note one thing - one of the big arguments put forward by Kenny supporters (particularly in a couple of articles I read recently on 42.ie) is that he should be given more time because he is bravely giving young talent a break, while previous managers (like Mick) stuck with experienced journeyman, thus stopping the team from being as good as it could be - this ignores the fact that Mick had little time for experimenting, yet still gave debuts to Mark Travers, Kieran O'Hara, Aaron Connolly, Josh Cullen, Lee O'Connor, Troy Parrott, Jack Byrne and, er, James Collins. He also wasted a trip to Holland to see if Dan Crowley was worth adding to the team.

Kenny had a number of friendlies and a Nations League campaign to improve the squad both in terms of personnel and playing style and, while he has continued to bring in players who will undoubtedly form a big part of our squad in the coming decade, he hasn't got them playing in a competitive manner and, at the end of the day, that's what matters.

Thanks to the development of a lot of youth over the past few years (which Kenny played a part in, TBF), we will have a great opportunity to qualify for the next Euros as we will have a mix of youth and experience, but it is vitally important that we have the correct manager. At this point I would say that Kenny is not that manager, but that he has four games to prove otherwise

That's all very fair, but for Mick blooding young players was a luxury. For Kenny it's a pure necessity. Mick had 3-4 experienced pros to call on that Kenny doesn't. Those pros are either gone or have devolved, even to the point where they can't find a club. Robbie Brady is the prime example but there's plenty more who have slid alarmingly down the leagues in what should be their prime. At this level, your best available 11 is how good you are. Comparing Mick and Kenny is also useless. We couldn't afford Mick if we wanted him.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

But you keep saying X was available to both without considering what's happened to them in the last two years. Randolph has barely played in that time; McClean and Hourihane have dropped a division - they're clearly not as good now as they were two years ago.

How did Mick do in Switzerland with that forward line which resembles a Kenny forward line?

Bottom line is our form for the past decade has been on a linear downward trend. We've just crossed the place where now Mick's draws in Georgia or narrow wins against Gibraltar are turning into worse results. This was always going to happen unfortunately.

Has Randolph's performances been any weaker under Kenny? No. Same with Hourihane and McClean. They've been poor for a long time. You can also say that Kenny has had the advantage of Dara O Shea gaining a lot of experience, same with Josh Cullen moving to Anderlecht. There are pluses and minuses for both leaving it with a very similar squad in terms of strength overall.

Mick lost that game in Switzerland but that was his only defeat. No one would be complaining if Kenny's only defeat was away to Portugal. It's the losses to Luxembourg et, the draws to Azerbaijan, the lack of organisation, poor tactical awareness, the overall incompetence.

This is why the results are getting worse than under McCarthy. Because Kenny is so far out of his depth. No other reason. McCarthy wasn't even that impressive in his latest term. Again, it shows how far back Kenny has brought us.

[pineapple stu]

Thanks to the development of a lot of youth over the past few years (which Kenny played a part in, TBF), we will have a great opportunity to qualify for the next Euros
Woah - that's...optimistic. Yes, they're a couple of years away yet, but there's plenty of players who need to move on from the "prospect" stage to where they can be considered an international class player. Some will drop away to a lower league career (I'm thinking Connolly is a prime suspect for that at the moment). In the meantime, Randolph, Coleman and Stevens will be in and around mid-30s and will surely have lost some of their effectiveness.


Has Randolph's performances been any weaker under Kenny? No. Same with Hourihane and McClean. They've been poor for a long time. You can also say that Kenny has had the advantage of Dara O Shea gaining a lot of experience, same with Josh Cullen moving to Anderlecht. There are pluses and minuses for both leaving it with a very similar squad in terms of strength overall.

Mick lost that game in Switzerland but that was his only defeat. No one would be complaining if Kenny's only defeat was away to Portugal. It's the losses to Luxembourg et, the draws to Azerbaijan, the lack of organisation, poor tactical awareness, the overall incompetence.

Randolph hasn't played for us in a year. He was left out of the current squad precisely because he hasn't been getting game time at club level. McClean was Stoke's Player of the Year in 2019/20. This yeah, he's been released and has had to drop down a division. You seem to think 30+ players exist in a stasis; they really don't.

Yes, Mick lost to Switzerland with that starting three. A 2-goal defeat, which is more than any competitive defeat Kenny has suffered (so far...) He also drew 0-0 in Georgia, who are better than Luxembourg, but not by a huge amount. The signs have been there for a long time that we were getting closer and closer to results like of late. Our scoring rate has fallen off a cliff pretty much since Keane retired. You really can't get away with attacking line-ups of Parrott/Idah/Connolly at international level.

[passinginterest]

Kenny Pros:
Players still seem to be playing for him and supporting his methods
Even in defeats and poor performances we're creating far more scoring chances and having far more shots than we did in previous regimes (analysis from nations league showed this and it has continued)
First half against Portugal was the best performance by any Irish team in a very long time
Brave in selection and giving some potentially top class prospects genuine experience
Flexible with approach to formation and tactics
Still don't conceded many goals
No heavy defeats

Kenny Cons
Poor media presence
Poor results
Too flexible with approach to formation and tactics (do the players have long enough to adapt and implement the changes he wants in the short time available)
Questionable use of subs
Discarding senior players too quickly?

Outside Factors
Natural gap in squad due to almost no players coming through between the age of early 30's and under 23
Covid disruption
Players not playing for their clubs

I still think there's potential for another campaign (unless we end up with only the one point, anything around 5 might be enough at this stage). As long as the players still seem to believe in the changes Kenny is trying to make. It's not easy, but there's no potential replacement candidates jumping out. Do we really want another old school manager who doesn't believe the players can pass it 5 yards to each other (I know some do and fair enough)? Look at the bookies lists and convince me that anyone on them would improve anything. Yes, results from now on have to pick up. Hopefully starting with at least a point tomorrow, but it's not quite the final curtain yet. If someone figures out how to put the ball in the net before the end of the campaign it changes everything.

[osarusan]

The switches made between Portugal and Azerbaijan are a real issue for me. Sure, some changes were necessary, but why switch things around and kill the attacking threat we showed there, especially Doherty and Coleman? Why not keep the shape as much as you can and tell the much the same players to go out and do the same thing against a much weaker team?

Instead he made a number of changes, some of which were just baffling frankly, and I've no idea what it would even have looked like if it had worked. We went from creating some decent chances against a very good team (albeit defensively weaker than their attack) to creating very little against a much weaker team.

And that's his tenure in a nutshell for me. Too many decisions that just don't make sense and don't work. Is he doing a better job in terms of decisions and performances now than he was at the start. Is he learning? Are the team improving?

In my opinion, no, neither of those things are happening. Certainly not as much as we can reasonably expect from the manager of our national team...maybe not at all.

[Real ale Madrid]

Kenny Pros:
Players still seem to be playing for him and supporting his methods
Even in defeats and poor performances we're creating far more scoring chances and having far more shots than we did in previous regimes (analysis from nations league showed this and it has continued)
First half against Portugal was the best performance by any Irish team in a very long time
Brave in selection and giving some potentially top class prospects genuine experience
Flexible with approach to formation and tactics
Still don't conceded many goals
No heavy defeats
Plus - He's Cheap!


One more crucial one!

[Bielsa´s irish]

I suppose the question you have to ask is - if Coleman were to look at the Ireland job and consider it, what would they see? A team on a long decline trying to squeeze something out of PL2 players or third tier loanees. Coleman's career trajectory has been weird - a great spell with Wales but he's flopped since then - but he presumably has ambitions to get back on the merry-go-round. Is the Ireland job a route back to the top? Or has it become a bit of a poisoned chalice?

(This goes for any of the suggestions btw; not just Coleman, who's an interesting call in fairness)
Bazunu positioning is inviting rivals to shoot from distance

[tetsujin1979]

And so it begins...
Commercial reality may force FAI's hand to arrest Ireland malaise under Stephen Kenny: https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arid-40374119.html

I thought Kenny's contract was until the end of the year, it's actually until July.

In one of the several bizarre legacies of the Delaney years, Kenny’s deal runs until next July, midway through the next Nations League campaign. Any payoff due by the end of this series in November, or before, amounts to around €300,000.

[pineapple stu]

Wow - we appointed a new manager until what, after the original dates of the World Cup? Rather than up to the end of the qualifying campaign?

Well done Delaney there.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I say dont fire him, and make him resign if there is a heavey defeat tomorrow he must resign

[Kingdom]

McDonnell on twitter has categorically stated that his job isn't at risk after tomorrow night (online indo article). He mentions that the crowd for the friendly vs Qatar will be taken into account (that in itself is laughable).
Meanwhile OTB have a soundbyte quoting the Star and Daily Mail who say he could be sacked if we lose tomorrow night, with both Keane's, Duff, Sam Allardyce, Steven Reid and Carsley all in the picture.
That's laughable (the alternatives) and depressing.

[Diggs246]

McDonnell on twitter has categorically stated that his job isn't at risk after tomorrow night (online indo article). He mentions that the crowd for the friendly vs Qatar will be taken into account (that in itself is laughable).
Meanwhile OTB have a soundbyte quoting the Star and Daily Mail who say he could be sacked if we lose tomorrow night, with both Keane's, Duff, Sam Allardyce, Steven Reid and Carsley all in the picture.
That's laughable (the alternatives) and depressing.

If we have no funds circa 500k, I would take a chance on lee carsley, if we have extra funds circa 1m how about Chris Wilder?
Remember the Euro is easier to get to and may be attractive

[Bielsa´s irish]

McDonnell on twitter has categorically stated that his job isn't at risk after tomorrow night (online indo article). He mentions that the crowd for the friendly vs Qatar will be taken into account (that in itself is laughable).
Meanwhile OTB have a soundbyte quoting the Star and Daily Mail who say he could be sacked if we lose tomorrow night, with both Keane's, Duff, Sam Allardyce, Steven Reid and Carsley all in the picture.
That's laughable (the alternatives) and depressing.

the list arent great. we need an experienced guy

[seanfhear]

McDonnell on twitter has categorically stated that his job isn't at risk after tomorrow night (online indo article). He mentions that the crowd for the friendly vs Qatar will be taken into account (that in itself is laughable).
Meanwhile OTB have a soundbyte quoting the Star and Daily Mail who say he could be sacked if we lose tomorrow night, with both Keane's, Duff, Sam Allardyce, Steven Reid and Carsley all in the picture.
That's laughable (the alternatives) and depressing.
I doubt Carsley would leave the England U21’s for what we have now = = That would be a big gamble. Look at what Southgate got out of being the English FA’s, Yes Man and being in the right place at the right time.

So Steven Reid out of that list but he has never been a Manager so if the Kenny experiment ends soon they ( the FAI ) are hardly going to gamble on a man that has never been a Manager.

[sadloserkid]

I can't see Lee Carsley leaving his current gig for our job even if it does come up. I'd like it to happen but I think if fan goggles are removed it's not an overly attractive proposition at the moment.

[seanfhear]

If we have no funds circa 500k, I would take a chance on lee carsley, if we have extra funds circa 1m how about Chris Wilder?
Remember the Euro is easier to get to and may be attractiveCertainly a better shout out than the others on Kingdom’s list.

[ifk101]

Not to advocate Robbie Keane, but he has already been paid by the FAI to do a job that he has yet to do.

[seanfhear]

I think the FAI and Kenny should be thinking goodbye by mutual consent if it goes pear-shaped again, v Serbia. Pay Kenny Up and off.

[pineapple stu]

Not to advocate Robbie Keane, but he has already been paid by the FAI to do a job that he has yet to do.
I suppose if we sack Kenny and appoint Keane, then what we have is a position where Keane is the manager and Kenny is being paid to to a job that he's not doing.

Which sounds an utterly perfect FAI solution...

[John83]

I think the FAI and Kenny should be thinking goodbye by mutual consent if it goes pear-shaped again, v Serbia. Pay Kenny Up and off.
I expect a moral victory (i.e. a defeat) against Serbia, which won't put any more pressure on him. He'll have to lose badly to feel more pressure than he already is, and that's maybe unlikely as we are inclined to do well enough defending against better teams.

[Kingdom]

If we have no funds circa 500k, I would take a chance on lee carsley, if we have extra funds circa 1m how about Chris Wilder?
Remember the Euro is easier to get to and may be attractive

I'm not sure I follow: if we've no funds, then we're goosed from the get-go - and we know we have no funds! Assume you're talking about paying 500k a year to a manager, or €1m a year (Remember this is an organisation that still hasn't repaid deferred salary costs from last year.)? That shouldn't have happened previously, and it absolutely should not happen now. We've got to have the best value for money coach that we can afford. We probably have it right now. The government will not, and should not, put any money into the FAI that goes towards an inflated salary for the national team manager. Stephen Kenny is ireland manager, partly for what he wants to do with irish football, but also because he's cheap. Every extra penny needs to be diverted to structures, youth teams and the LOI. That only leaves going cap in hand to another benefactor. I don't want to think about that.

Forget the Euros. We're obsessed with the big days. This WC campaign is over with 4 games left to play. The next competition that we absolutely need to focus on is the Nations League. We need to perform well in that - one, if we get a favourable group, we need to capitalise upon it, or two, we get a stinker of a group and need to play to the max (Ukraine, Russia, ourselves and Slovenia sounds pretty **** to me - but that may not be possible due to politics hopefully). The next 4 games and the Qatar friendly needs to be an auction amongst the 40 or so options that we have now. the chopping and changing needs to be end by March 2022 - giving Kenny the first 4 games of the NL up to summer 2022. make the call on him then - if he's gone, then there is 2 remaining games in Sept, there is the october window and there will be friendly opportunities in either november or december ahead of the WC to prepare for the Euro qualifiers in March 2023. That's a roadmap, and it's a fair one.

Roy Keane - no thanks. Lee Carsley - why would he? Steven Reid is a possibility, but what has he done? He's got a glowing reputation, but he's moved around a lot, and has only recently cancelled his Scotland gig for personal/family reasons. We need some sense of stability. that rules out Duffer, he's not cut out for this gig. Robbie Keane is the outlier here. I've absolutely no doubt of it. I can't prove it, but it would not surprise me if there's some form of agreement with him to be offered the job at the existing terms of his contract, in the event that Kenny is sacked, rather than trying to end the contract prematurely at great cost to the FAI, and to the reputation of both the FAI, Keane and Kenny. And it will absolutely kill me if he gets it. and if he is a credible option in the eyes of the FAI board - then it will happen sooner rather than later, and that will be next week if we lose to Serbia.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I expect a moral victory (i.e. a defeat) against Serbia, which won't put any more pressure on him. He'll have to lose badly to feel more pressure than he already is, and that's maybe unlikely as we are inclined to do well enough defending against better teams.

No a defeat is not a moral victory, he needs to bring back the points he dropped vs az and lux a defeat is a defeat I think McGrath and Dunne were clear about it and they know the beautiful game

[Kingdom]

Certainly a better shout out than the others on Kingdom’s list.

Just to be clear - it's not my list. It's Paul Lennon's list - he who did a hatchet job on Kenny last year around the Coleman situation - which Coleman was scathing about. Works for the Star. Where Cathal Dervan used to work.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I'm not sure I follow: if we've no funds, then we're goosed from the get-go - and we know we have no funds! Assume you're talking about paying 500k a year to a manager, or €1m a year (Remember this is an organisation that still hasn't repaid deferred salary costs from last year.)? That shouldn't have happened previously, and it absolutely should not happen now. We've got to have the best value for money coach that we can afford. We probably have it right now. The government will not, and should not, put any money into the FAI that goes towards an inflated salary for the national team manager. Stephen Kenny is ireland manager, partly for what he wants to do with irish football, but also because he's cheap. Every extra penny needs to be diverted to structures, youth teams and the LOI. That only leaves going cap in hand to another benefactor. I don't want to think about that.

Forget the Euros. We're obsessed with the big days. This WC campaign is over with 4 games left to play. The next competition that we absolutely need to focus on is the Nations League. We need to perform well in that - one, if we get a favourable group, we need to capitalise upon it, or two, we get a stinker of a group and need to play to the max (Ukraine, Russia, ourselves and Slovenia sounds pretty **** to me - but that may not be possible due to politics hopefully). The next 4 games and the Qatar friendly needs to be an auction amongst the 40 or so options that we have now. the chopping and changing needs to be end by March 2022 - giving Kenny the first 4 games of the NL up to summer 2022. make the call on him then - if he's gone, then there is 2 remaining games in Sept, there is the october window and there will be friendly opportunities in either november or december ahead of the WC to prepare for the Euro qualifiers in March 2023. That's a roadmap, and it's a fair one.

Roy Keane - no thanks. Lee Carsley - why would he? Steven Reid is a possibility, but what has he done? He's got a glowing reputation, but he's moved around a lot, and has only recently cancelled his Scotland gig for personal/family reasons. We need some sense of stability. that rules out Duffer, he's not cut out for this gig. Robbie Keane is the outlier here. I've absolutely no doubt of it. I can't prove it, but it would not surprise me if there's some form of agreement with him to be offered the job at the existing terms of his contract, in the event that Kenny is sacked, rather than trying to end the contract prematurely at great cost to the FAI, and to the reputation of both the FAI, Keane and Kenny. And it will absolutely kill me if he gets it. and if he is a credible option in the eyes of the FAI board - then it will happen sooner rather than later, and that will be next week if we lose to Serbia.

I dont agree with the part to leave Kenny for the NL games that will be unfair with the new guy. listen 20 matches are more less fair with an international manager to get some profiler, his work will help in the future he was an ok under 21 manager and this was the next step, the thing is he is damaging his persona too it wont work ... for both parties

[pineapple stu]

The next 4 games and the Qatar friendly needs to be an auction amongst the 40 or so options that we have now.
Can't help but note this was my reasoning for starting Kelleher tomorrow, which you pooh-poohed. :) And I can't ignore a pooh-pooh, you know. Otherwise the forum will be entirely disbanded - by pooh-pooh!

One aside from all this actually is that realistically we've seen for a long while that we're on the down. OK, Kenny may have accelerated that, but we are where we deserve. The FAI's financial position is...parlous. At what stage do the FAI get so desperate that the grasp the nettle and make real reform in the domestic structure? How long can a bankrupt FAI survive as, say, fourth seeds in front of crowds of 15k and no hope of a finals payday? I'm not seeing any particularly easy way out of all to be quite honest.

[paul_oshea]

I expect a moral victory (i.e. a defeat) against Serbia, which won't put any more pressure on him. He'll have to lose badly to feel more pressure than he already is, and that's maybe unlikely as we are inclined to do well enough defending against better teams.

we';re like a minnow side, lose by the odd goal against a big team and struggle to get any kind of a result against lower teams. A bit like say georgia or armenia(previous campaigns). It'll be hard to get the players motivated for tomorrow, especially when fatigue will be setting in for a few of them so early in the season. Serbia can top the group so they'll be very motivated and up for this one, as theyll see us as a wounded animal.

[paul_oshea]

I'm not sure I follow: if we've no funds, then we're goosed from the get-go - and we know we have no funds! Assume you're talking about paying 500k a year to a manager, or €1m a year (Remember this is an organisation that still hasn't repaid deferred salary costs from last year.)? That shouldn't have happened previously, and it absolutely should not happen now. We've got to have the best value for money coach that we can afford. We probably have it right now. The government will not, and should not, put any money into the FAI that goes towards an inflated salary for the national team manager. Stephen Kenny is ireland manager, partly for what he wants to do with irish football, but also because he's cheap. Every extra penny needs to be diverted to structures, youth teams and the LOI. That only leaves going cap in hand to another benefactor. I don't want to think about that.
.

One thing that I am worried about is regardless of what people thought of the old regime they generally read the mood correctly and appointed managers that people were happy with be it kerr, trap, mon etc. I'm not convinced theres "footballing" people at the top at the moment. Who knows what we could end up with. Still its like saying Gadafis not so bad because we dont know what could come after....

[Kingdom]

Can't help but note this was my reasoning for starting Kelleher tomorrow, which you pooh-poohed. :) And I can't ignore a pooh-pooh, you know. Otherwise the forum will be entirely disbanded - by pooh-pooh!

One aside from all this actually is that realistically we've seen for a long while that we're on the down. OK, Kenny may have accelerated that, but we are where we deserve. The FAI's financial position is...parlous. At what stage do the FAI get so desperate that the grasp the nettle and make real reform in the domestic structure? How long can a bankrupt FAI survive as, say, fourth seeds in front of crowds of 15k and no hope of a finals payday? I'm not seeing any particularly easy way out of all to be quite honest.

Ok, I'll qualify. I think it's akin to the Kelly/Given/Kiely situation. I don't think either needs a game for the sake of rotation or a game. Personally, I prefer Kelleher. I think he's the better keeper, has more of a presence (he's taller, but lighter), and is a better handler of the ball. But he's not playing games of any kind. It's the one position you need to be playing games. And bazunu is doing so, so deserves the jersey. If we want to give Kelleher a game, then let it be Qatar next month. Talbot/Travers/An Other know what they are (ball retrievers).

I don't think we need to see Kelleher in action now, because I think once he's playing games (assume on loan as he isn't being let go by Liverpool) he'll be grand, and he'll assume the #1 jersey naturally. I actually don't think it's a big leap to see Kelleher starting for Liverpool by the start of the 2023/2024 season. Next year he'll go on loan for the full season, and there could be am market for becker at a Madrid, Barca or that ilk, with Liverpool utilising the funds elsewhere - but I digress.

The financial point you make is crucial. We're in that horrid cycle that we need tournament finals to boost the coffers, but to splash the cash with no guarantee or realistic guarantee of reaching a finals (given the playing resources) only pushes us further down that financial spiral. there was 21k reported to be there on Sat. Does that include the people (like me) who had to buy a second seat just to secure one ticket? I said it on the matchthread how disappointed I was with the general Irish football fan. This is the first Irish match we could attend in how long, and it doesn't sell out? My brother - god love him - got a ticket. He enjoys football, but he hasn't a clue, and has never been to any match in his life. took his son who wanted to know why doesn't the team get a score when the ball went over the bar! They shouldn't have been anywhere near getting a ticket for the Azeri game. So I would say that crowds of 15k are entirely plausible. But why should the FAI be reliant on home international gate receipts? there's a rake of countries in UEFA who get smaller crowds than us regularly and have better systems.

Sponsorship and attracting a top-tier sponsor is an issue it seems. Wonder would (and not exclusively financial related) the FAI going for a UEFA 21s tournament help both financially, and with a sponsor? If so then we should be working hammer and thongs at hosting the 2025 version, or at a minimum an all-island finals. That is a realistic option from what I can see. The criteria isn't as stringent as senior tournaments. And it would be much more attainable than the romantic world cup bid (which will go to South America I reckon).
Sorry for the tangent.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, I agree Kelleher isn't helping himself with the situation he finds himself in - yet how do you move away from being Liverpool's second choice? A lot of keepers would kill for that. But I'd still like to see him involved in the setupia competitive qualifier - though let's be honest, we have four friendlies left really - but I am less worried about keeper than other places alright, even if Bazunu's luck with his howlers is going to run out one of these games.

I'm not sure how much money is really involved in the U21s; I would have thought it would be relatively low key still. You're right obviously that we should be considering any sort of financial benefit at the moment (and in fairness, we probably are). I think the FAI needing gate receipts is largely down to how much debt they have thanks to covid and some other numpty who I'd like to say is worse than covid but that's probably unhelpful hyperbole but he is a *****. But yeah, without money to invest in clubs, our young players get worse coaching, so our senior squad gets worse, so people start watching rugby (ugh!) more and there's even less money in the game. It's a far bigger issue than whether Kenny is up for it or who should play in nets tomorrow.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Ok, I'll qualify. I think it's akin to the Kelly/Given/Kiely situation. I don't think either needs a game for the sake of rotation or a game. Personally, I prefer Kelleher. I think he's the better keeper, has more of a presence (he's taller, but lighter), and is a better handler of the ball. But he's not playing games of any kind. It's the one position you need to be playing games. And bazunu is doing so, so deserves the jersey. If we want to give Kelleher a game, then let it be Qatar next month. Talbot/Travers/An Other know what they are (ball retrievers).

I don't think we need to see Kelleher in action now, because I think once he's playing games (assume on loan as he isn't being let go by Liverpool) he'll be grand, and he'll assume the #1 jersey naturally. I actually don't think it's a big leap to see Kelleher starting for Liverpool by the start of the 2023/2024 season. Next year he'll go on loan for the full season, and there could be am market for becker at a Madrid, Barca or that ilk, with Liverpool utilising the funds elsewhere - but I digress.

The financial point you make is crucial. We're in that horrid cycle that we need tournament finals to boost the coffers, but to splash the cash with no guarantee or realistic guarantee of reaching a finals (given the playing resources) only pushes us further down that financial spiral. there was 21k reported to be there on Sat. Does that include the people (like me) who had to buy a second seat just to secure one ticket? I said it on the matchthread how disappointed I was with the general Irish football fan. This is the first Irish match we could attend in how long, and it doesn't sell out? My brother - god love him - got a ticket. He enjoys football, but he hasn't a clue, and has never been to any match in his life. took his son who wanted to know why doesn't the team get a score when the ball went over the bar! They shouldn't have been anywhere near getting a ticket for the Azeri game. So I would say that crowds of 15k are entirely plausible. But why should the FAI be reliant on home international gate receipts? there's a rake of countries in UEFA who get smaller crowds than us regularly and have better systems.

Sponsorship and attracting a top-tier sponsor is an issue it seems. Wonder would (and not exclusively financial related) the FAI going for a UEFA 21s tournament help both financially, and with a sponsor? If so then we should be working hammer and thongs at hosting the 2025 version, or at a minimum an all-island finals. That is a realistic option from what I can see. The criteria isn't as stringent as senior tournaments. And it would be much more attainable than the romantic world cup bid (which will go to South America I reckon).
Sorry for the tangent.
the goalkeeping situation was easy... Play Randoph when fit. he was injured ok, but come on on this one he got it wrong Bazunu is not the answer yet, great craking goal but again an experience keeper would have tipped that over the bar..... bazunu has a tendency to be far from over the line he is very easy to get lobbed

[Kingdom]

Stephen Kenny may have just kept himself in a job to 2022.
The final thirty seconds of the interview I've just heard will probably sway anyone on the fence onto his side.

"that kind of near-sightedness does not create anything. you might beat teams that you should beat, but you'll never beat the teams you should be striving to beat"

[John83]

Stephen Kenny may have just kept himself in a job to 2022.
The final thirty seconds of the interview I've just heard will probably sway anyone on the fence onto his side.

"that kind of near-sightedness does not create anything. you might beat teams that you should beat, but you'll never beat the teams you should be striving to beat"
I think I might get that printed up and hang it in my toilet.

[Olé Olé]

Stephen Kenny may have just kept himself in a job to 2022.
The final thirty seconds of the interview I've just heard will probably sway anyone on the fence onto his side.

"that kind of near-sightedness does not create anything. you might beat teams that you should beat, but you'll never beat the teams you should be striving to beat"

Hmmmm you'd ask why can't you do both? I mean, lumping James McClean in, essentially for Omobamidele, is hardly far sightedness Stephen.

I'm getting a little frustrated by his talking out both sides of his mouth.

[brine3]

the goalkeeping situation was easy... Play Randoph when fit. he was injured ok, but come on on this one he got it wrong Bazunu is not the answer yet, great craking goal but again an experience keeper would have tipped that over the bar..... bazunu has a tendency to be far from over the line he is very easy to get lobbed

Yeah, on viewing it again... that was saveable. And yes, he saved a penno from Ronaldo, but he also gave the penalty away. It's ok, he's a young player and has a lot of potential. But these matches aren't training matches.

[mark12345]

Can't help but note this was my reasoning for starting Kelleher tomorrow, which you pooh-poohed. :) And I can't ignore a pooh-pooh, you know. Otherwise the forum will be entirely disbanded - by pooh-pooh!

One aside from all this actually is that realistically we've seen for a long while that we're on the down. OK, Kenny may have accelerated that, but we are where we deserve. The FAI's financial position is...parlous. At what stage do the FAI get so desperate that the grasp the nettle and make real reform in the domestic structure? How long can a bankrupt FAI survive as, say, fourth seeds in front of crowds of 15k and no hope of a finals payday? I'm not seeing any particularly easy way out of all to be quite honest.

"We are where we deserve to be." Exactly right. No point in people criticising Kenny when Trap, Mick, O'Neill and Keane couldn't get it done either (some success among them but never going to take a step up to the next level because of our style of play - hoofball, which is what most fans wanted to get away from). It starts with coaching, always has - always will. We apparently don't have the coaches in Ireland to teach technique - I have been hearing good things about our upcoming youngsters but the 64K questions are: Have these promising youngsters been thought how to create from the midfield and have they been thought how to make and score goals??

These problems have beset the national team for half a century but we don't address them, instead we persist with the same tried and failed methods.

[Strongbow10]

Reading so many posts on here, and football in Ireland seems to begin and end with the senior national team. LOI fans with an axe to grind against non LOI fans who they deem too critical, and Liverpool/Man United fans baying for blood because there is no **** up on the continent at a major tournament on the horizon.

Personally, I fall between 2 stools, LOI match goer and follow a team across the water closely also. Having to preface my post with this information is pretty stupid but maybe it gives some context anyway.

My 2 cents are as follows:

We need to forget about qualifying for any major tournament for probably the next 8-12 years. Fans, the FAI etc.. may cry treason, but we need to stop tying all of our eggs up in one basket with the national team. I don't think Stephen Kenny is the standard of manager we should be looking to if we were hoping to be successful in the short or medium term, but thats neither here nor there. People's solution seems to be throwing a million euro at another semi big name, who will hopefully cobble together a squad who will provide a spirited effort and more than likely come up short.

If we are to move forward we simply need to look at the bigger picture for Irish football. Every ounce of investment/resources we have need to be funnelled into development at grass roots in this country. Very simplistic to say our league needs looking at, but if we are to have a model that is sustainable and under our own control then we need some creative solutions about how the game can be developed here properly. We simply need a functioning league where our best young talent play senior league football week in week out. We need to seek the investment to keep them in Ireland (rather than being shipped to England where we roll the dice and hope they develop them for us), but we also need to obviously make it a viable option financially. Private sector investment is the only way to go. Allow our league to become somewhat sustainable in time by attracting proper transfer fees for our best players because there is genuine perception that we develop some quality.

Challenges facing football in this country:

1. OTHER SPORTS- despite football having big participation levels, we are competing with GAA and Rugby when it comes to getting serious. Particularly GAA, I know its an old argument but a small country like ours will always struggle when a large % of the young male population are indoctrined to play from their early years. Its just a fact. Rugby has snatched some of these young lads with its ability to provide them with a professional career (and you could say the skillset is closer between GAA and Rugby), but you would be surprised with the change in participation level if there was an opportunity to make decent money playing pro football in this country (aspirational I know).

2. LACK OF FOOTBALL ECONOMY IN IRELAND- Strong argument that this is the case. The Rugby guys did it via the provincial system, so any move to have a proper paying pro-league here would possibly have to leave behind the current clubs, possibly focusing on major urban centres. Its not to everyone (the majorities) interest to see potential franchises set up, but there must be a compromise. There are too many clubs currently to sustain professional football to the required standard, and by that I mean a standard that could entice the best youth to stay here. This is why private sector investment is key, but who is willing to run at a substantial loss for a good few years?

3. NO JOINED UP THINKING- Getting everyone on the same page in Ireland re: football structures is a painful process. Everyone is looking after their own patch, so many chiefs in their own personal fiefdom, but when you step back, why in their right mind would they support shifting all power to a completely dysfunctional FAI?

4. THE LURE OF A BETTER PRODUCT ACROSS THE WATER- this one speaks for itself. And say whatever you like, majority of Irish supporters are consumers for whom football is akin to their favourite TV show. And saying such offends the hell out of them, particularly when stated by a self confessed LOI match goer. Fact of the matter is, these consumers are the ones we need to spend their money sustaining a football economy here.

5. GRANNY RULE DRY OUT- Any English born player worth his salt is not bothering his backside anymore to declare for us, better to get 1 English cap than 100 Irish, and fair enough we may say. I'm on the fence either way, can recognise the benefit of having a quality UK born player who adds to our ranks, but also take pride in seeing what it means to some of the irish born lads pulling on the green shirt. Point being, these guys are kind of important to our development until such a time as we can start producing a surplus of quality international players ourselves, here in Ireland.

But I digress, in terms of Stephen Kenny, its neither here nor there as to whether he stays or goes. Makes very little difference unless we are tackling the bigger issues facing Irish football, things like contact hours the best young players get in this country (which is a disgrace by the way). But these smaller issues at lower levels (and there are enough of them to add up to huge issues for the game further down the line) are not sexy enough, nor would your casual fan give a flying f*ck when he just wants to book his flight to Euro 2024 so he can take videos of himself drinking cans in some town square where the game is an afterthought.

[brine3]

S.K. (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0906/1244971-kenny-not-concerned-with-reports-that-job-is-on-line/)

"If you take the four matches that people are talking about in the campaign. In the games against Serbia and Portugal away, they are probably two of our best performances away from home in the last decade, without question."

2011-09-06 Russia 0, Ireland 0
2011-11-11 Estonia 0, Ireland 4 (playoff)
2013-03-22 Sweden 0, Ireland 0
2014-10-14 Germany 1, Ireland 1
2015-11-16 Bosnia 1, Ireland 1 (playoff)
2016-11-12 Austria 0, Ireland 1
2017-10-09 Wales 0, Ireland 1 (eliminated Wales)
2019-06-07 Denmark 1, Ireland 1

I'll have whatever S.K. is having

[McDee]

He said performances, not results.

[sadloserkid]

you'll never beat the teams you should be striving to beat

Not teams like Luxembourg and Azerbaijan, no?

[brine3]

He said performances, not results.

So 27% possession and zero points against Portugal is better than 35% possession and a point against the newly crowned world champions Germany?

This Barca style high pressing goal against Wales with dummy stepover (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KueXCT9VA-Y) is no good?