View Full Version : Stephen Kenny
BOOMSHAKALAKA
12/10/2021, 8:56 PM
I think you are the one guilty of approaching the issue blindly and based on emotion.
If you go back to my previous posts on the matter, i have supported critical questioning of performances and results under Kenny. Some results (and performances) have been hard to stomach. But I have also asked that people make a fair and reasonable assessment of SK with the challenges that presented to him, the lack of stability early on that was almost completely out of his hands and the young players that he has had to bring through.
It is more nuanced than Kenny class/Kenny sh!te.
Bottom line for me is that he has deserved a longer runway than others might have received and it appears as though patience might be the right approach with the coaching and playing teams that he has assembled now seemingly turning a corner. I am not blindly following anything, i have already set out what i believe were bottom line requirements to stay in the job beyond this campaign. Prior to Serbia i wanted 7 or 8 points. He is on 4. Failure to beat Luxembourg and the FAI has some a valid question to ask / decision to make.
Now, who is the extremist between the two of us?
You're backing the worst manager we've ever had and calling those who dare question him as extremists and saying they should be ignored. You may need to do some self reflection.
I think you are being disingenuous and i am guilty of not heeding my own advice and engaging you.
"blindly following something based on emotion" is a pretty nice parallel to extremism, no?
BOOMSHAKALAKA
12/10/2021, 9:05 PM
I think you are being disingenuous and i am guilty of not heeding my own advice and engaging you.
"blindly following something based on emotion" is a pretty nice parallel to extremism, no?
There are those who will defend Kenny no matter what results are achieved. This has been proven. Criticising the manager overseeing this awful campaign is not extreme.
BOOMSHAKALAKA
12/10/2021, 9:08 PM
Watching the Kenny interview here, still an incoherent mess in front of the camera. Positive results havent had a positive effect on that.
Insidetherock
12/10/2021, 9:15 PM
Calling Kenny the worst manager we've ever had is a load of horse ****e. Absolute horse ****e.
From day one since Kenny took over, and remember we almost got to the Euro play off finals, he's been trying to play better football and bring in new players. We finished the other night with three teenagers on the pitch ffs.. what do you want, some ex pro from the Charlton era off looking for 30 yr old lads with an Irish granny. Or Robbie Keane?
Kenny will probably end up as one of those unlucky managers who ends up handing a cracking team to the next guy who comes in. But while he's there, back him. Mick Mc Carthys early games were muck too.. but he eventually moulded a team that should have gotten to a WC quarter final
Frankly I'm looking forward to being in Germany in 2024
And I'd be delighted if Kenny was there managing them
Watching the Kenny interview here, still an incoherent mess in front of the camera. Positive results havent had a positive effect on that.
Oh give it a rest ffs. Valid criticism is one thing, but you’re being ridiculous. But don’t worry, no doubt we’ll lose to Portugal next month with Kenny back in charge after Anthony Barry’s two wins.
There are those who will defend Kenny no matter what results are achieved. This has been proven. Criticising the manager overseeing this awful campaign is not extreme.
But, but but ...is Anthony Barry not running things ? Ah, only when we win. Gotcha.
ontheotherhand
12/10/2021, 9:35 PM
There are those who will defend Kenny no matter what results are achieved. This has been proven. Criticising the manager overseeing this awful campaign is not extreme.
There are those who will criticize Kenny no matter what results are achieved would be a more accurate reflection of things I think. Most of the posters on this forum have a fairly nuanced view of things that include positives and negatives with Kenny's approach so far that you consistently ignore in favor of straw man arguments about his "defenders" putting him up as some sort of tactical genius who will having us tiki takaing our way to trophies.
BOOMSHAKALAKA
12/10/2021, 9:52 PM
I think my point has been made looking at the posts above. There are some Kenny fanatics who won't accept a bad word said about their messiah. No matter how bad results are.
tetsujin1979
12/10/2021, 10:09 PM
Is there a mute button or something to block posts from certain posters.
Click a user's name next to a post, select "view profile" and on the screen that opens, click "Add to ignore list" on the left
tetsujin1979
12/10/2021, 10:12 PM
Watching the Kenny interview here, still an incoherent mess in front of the camera. Positive results havent had a positive effect on that.
Tone it down, there's a line, and you're coming close to it.
ontheotherhand
12/10/2021, 10:35 PM
I think my point has been made looking at the posts above. There are some Kenny fanatics who won't accept a bad word said about their messiah. No matter how bad results are.
I don't see a single Kenny fanatic in the above posts. You seem to invent them to go along with your straw man arguments. Nobody is even really defending Kenny a great deal. They are calling your posts out for their lack of clarity and overall negativity even in the face of improvement. The only fanatic, to be honest, seems to be you with your wild claims of Barry being responsible for anything good while the evil overlord Kenny stands in his way despite being the man who hired him to do the job he seems to be doing so well.....
nigel-harps1954
12/10/2021, 10:36 PM
Tone it down, there's a line, and you're coming close to it.
I think the line would have been crossed by any other poster. This guy is just a WUM at this stage.
TonyD
12/10/2021, 10:52 PM
I think my point has been made looking at the posts above. There are some Kenny fanatics who won't accept a bad word said about their messiah. No matter how bad results are.
Horse manure. The real issue is your steadfast refusal to give any sort of credit at all, even after two wins. (And yes, I’m well aware of the level of opposition.)
samhaydenjr
13/10/2021, 1:33 AM
OK, this is how I see it: Kenny is still fighting to save the job, but he is at least in the fight. We need to remember that this is still likely to be our worst qualifying campaign since 1972. Also, I want to note that in the Nations League, Callum Robinson played 47 minutes and Josh Cullen played 25 and I think we would have been better from the off had Kenny given them more time so that they could be better integrated into his system (admittedly I'm not sure about whether Robinson was injured/ill at the time but Cullen sat on the bench for at least a couple of games).
So there has been an improvement in performance and results, but is it enough? Going into the qualifiers for Euro 2024, we need to be confident that we will be reasonably comfortable against the 3Ms of teams: middling, mediocre and minnow - and also that we will be able to run with the big boys. Recent results have indicated we may be getting close to that but it's not certain - I think Kenny still needs a result against Portugal and a solid victory away to Luxembourg to cement his position, but I would be happy for him to lead us if he manages that.
Assuming his contract is renewed, he needs to hit the ground running in next year's friendlies and Nations League. In the friendlies, currently I would like to see him bring Smallbone, Obafemi, Scully and Elbouzedi into the mix (this may change over the coming months). The minimum goal for The Nations League should be finish in a position that is likely to get a home draw in the play-offs, as it's still quite possible we will need to use that route if we get a difficult draw in the main qualifiers
elatedscum
13/10/2021, 2:56 AM
. Also, I want to note that in the Nations League, Callum Robinson played 47 minutes and Josh Cullen played 25 and I think we would have been better from the off had Kenny given them more time so that they could be better integrated into his system (admittedly I'm not sure about whether Robinson was injured/ill at the time but Cullen sat on the bench for at least a couple of games).
Robinson -
September Camp - 2 nations league games, comes off the bench for both
October Camp - starts in playoff vs Slovakia, misses 3rd and 4th NL games due to being close contact with Williams
November camp - missed 5th and 6th NL games due to Covid along with England friendly
March camp - starts vs Serbia and Lux. Comes on as sub in 3rd game vs Qatar.
June camp - missed 2 friendlies due to Achilles injury
September camp - missed Portugal due to Covid and told Kenny he could only play 30 mins vs Azerbaijan and Serbia due to ill effects from covid
October camp - started both games
-
So under Kenny, he’s missed 8 games due to injury/Covid/CC. 2 more he’s been unable to play more than 30 mins due to illness. Of the remaining 8 games, he’s started 5 and come off the bench for 3, one of which was a friendly and would have been his 3rd start in a week...
Olé Olé
13/10/2021, 5:36 AM
Small point but I find it interesting. It might also be a sign of a changing Ireland but some of Kenny's selections have (probably unintentionally) resulted in a very diverse side and squad.
Last night, there was one English born starter (Robinson). There were two lads with one or more Nigerian parents (Ogbene and Omobamidele). There were four Cork starters, one Meath, one Derry, one Kildare and three Dubs.
Poor Student
13/10/2021, 7:35 AM
If Kenny can survive then the 2022 Nations League will be the true barometer of any progress as it'll line us up against peer nations. Dispatching poor opponents in a facile fashion is something we couldn't manage even a month ago so it's looks like some progress albeit the bare minimum. Hopefully the momentum can be carried into the Luxembourg game.
patsdad
13/10/2021, 6:56 PM
Just dipped into the last few pages of this thread out of curiosity. Guys, you've got a troll on here and you're feeding him. Never feed the troll!
ontheotherhand
13/10/2021, 7:35 PM
Ah it was a slow day.
Just dipped into the last few pages of this thread out of curiosity. Guys, you've got a troll on here and you're feeding him. Never feed the troll!
Don't worry about it, Stephen. We have it under control... :D
Insidetherock
13/10/2021, 10:09 PM
OK, this is how I see it: Kenny is still fighting to save the job, but he is at least in the fight. We need to remember that this is still likely to be our worst qualifying campaign since 1972. Also, I want to note that in the Nations League, Callum Robinson played 47 minutes and Josh Cullen played 25 and I think we would have been better from the off had Kenny given them more time so that they could be better integrated into his system (admittedly I'm not sure about whether Robinson was injured/ill at the time but Cullen sat on the bench for at least a couple of games).
So there has been an improvement in performance and results, but is it enough? Going into the qualifiers for Euro 2024, we need to be confident that we will be reasonably comfortable against the 3Ms of teams: middling, mediocre and minnow - and also that we will be able to run with the big boys. Recent results have indicated we may be getting close to that but it's not certain - I think Kenny still needs a result against Portugal and a solid victory away to Luxembourg to cement his position, but I would be happy for him to lead us if he manages that.
Assuming his contract is renewed, he needs to hit the ground running in next year's friendlies and Nations League. In the friendlies, currently I would like to see him bring Smallbone, Obafemi, Scully and Elbouzedi into the mix (this may change over the coming months). The minimum goal for The Nations League should be finish in a position that is likely to get a home draw in the play-offs, as it's still quite possible we will need to use that route if we get a difficult draw in the main qualifiers
I'd give him the NL games next year, and see where we are at then. At the very best with the Nations League, we'll be in Pot 2 for the Euro seeding.. by winning the group and winning it well.
16 teams in Group A will provide top 10 seeds, with worst 6 going into Pot 2.
Best 4 of the 16 teams in Group B, will go into Pot 2, with the 6 worst Group A teams
So win our Nations League group, we'll be in Pot 2 for the Euros.
Next ten teams in Group B, make up Pot 3. So unless we finish bottom of the NL group, we're heading for Pot 3, with worse case scenario, Pot 4.
But at that stage, it makes damn all difference to be honest. Unless you're in the top 2 pots, whether you're seeded 3,4,5 you'll end up with one really high level team, and possibly a second
paul_oshea
13/10/2021, 11:30 PM
So basically we can end up 2nd,3rd or fourth seeds for euro 2024
On a separate note, there is a +10 minute highlight package of the Azerbaijan game on the FAI channel. I watched it because i was having difficulty remembering - from watching the game live - all this long ball stuff that people are saying we have now switched too. The quality of passing football and freedom of expression in that ten minute highlight reel is phenomenal; even against a team like Azerbaijan. I cannot remember too many similar performances under previous regimes.
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samhaydenjr
14/10/2021, 3:04 AM
Robinson -
September Camp - 2 nations league games, comes off the bench for both
October Camp - starts in playoff vs Slovakia, misses 3rd and 4th NL games due to being close contact with Williams
November camp - missed 5th and 6th NL games due to Covid along with England friendly
March camp - starts vs Serbia and Lux. Comes on as sub in 3rd game vs Qatar.
June camp - missed 2 friendlies due to Achilles injury
September camp - missed Portugal due to Covid and told Kenny he could only play 30 mins vs Azerbaijan and Serbia due to ill effects from covid
October camp - started both games
-
So under Kenny, he’s missed 8 games due to injury/Covid/CC. 2 more he’s been unable to play more than 30 mins due to illness. Of the remaining 8 games, he’s started 5 and come off the bench for 3, one of which was a friendly and would have been his 3rd start in a week...
Fair enough - I knew he had missed some time due to COVID/Injury- didn't realise how much
samhaydenjr
14/10/2021, 3:16 AM
I'd give him the NL games next year, and see where we are at then. At the very best with the Nations League, we'll be in Pot 2 for the Euro seeding.. by winning the group and winning it well.
Oh no no no... that would literally be the worst option - that's how we got in this mess to begin with - gave MONKEANO a two-year contract in January 2018 - O'Neill experimented with his system and gave caps to fringe players in the Nations League and got two draws and was given the boot with a huge payoff. Then Mick was brought in to perform magic with no time to bed in his own system, knowing he had one qualifying campaign - due to COVID didn't get to finish it off and got a big payoff (did give debuts to a number of young players in spite of his constraints)
So whatever the decision, make it by the end of the year and stick with it - either we're now moving significantly in the right direction so we should give Kenny a full second chance at qualifying or these last couple of results have just been a blip and we should give a new manager plenty time to prepare for the Euro 24 qualifiers
Olé Olé
14/10/2021, 7:47 AM
Not sure how serious the "Anthony Barry for manager" shouts are but I would counter it with a few points. Kenny brought him in. He knew his reputation and his position at a big club under a big tactical manager. He has been big enough to embrace what Barry has brought, even when results were jeopardized. Is Barry responsible for the players being happy and the spirit in the camp? There's clearly a framework in place which focuses on the tactical aspect but the culture and spirit appear to be bang on too. And what about the players, of all ages. I heard Shane Keegan say recently he was at an under 17 game with Kenny a few years back and that Kenny waxed lyrical about Omobamidele. I'm sure he has been watching Bazunu a while. I'm sure he has been watching McGrath a while too. And Ogbene. That is four which he has given chances to, the extent of which another manager might not have, particularly when another manager wouldn't know these guys as well.
Oh, but he isn't great with the media? But that is subjective. Tell me Bazunu and Omobamidele weren't great with the media post Serbia.
I have been a Kenny supporter but have tried to be pragmatic and the Lux and Azeri results are blots on the copybook. But I'm feeling that he has done so much positive stuff in terms of the framework that's in place and the players within it
Also, we are in a sensitive position with regards to our current playing group. We have some good young players that could go in a couple of different directions at club and international level. The defenders and keepers look good. But the forwards are in precarious situations. And there is a gap to be filled in terms of young midfielders. I trust him to bring the right midfielders through and continue managing the forwards. I don't know if I could say that same about another manager.
He still needs to beat Luxembourg....
Diggs246
14/10/2021, 10:27 AM
If Jeff remains on form with cullen as the DM. We could be ok. The 3 at the back with Coleman and Doherty as wing backs has been great.
So with an attacking 3 of CR7, mcgrath. Idah. We start to look like a good outfit
TonyD
14/10/2021, 10:50 AM
If Jeff remains on form with cullen as the DM. We could be ok. The 3 at the back with Coleman and Doherty as wing backs has been great.
So with an attacking 3 of CR7, mcgrath. Idah. We start to look like a good outfit
Could we please please please stop with the CR7 business ? Hopefully he changes his shirt number for the next games !
backstothewall
14/10/2021, 10:52 AM
Could we please please please stop with the CR7 business ? Hopefully he changes his shirt number for the next games !
I wouldn't go getting your hopes up on that one based on who our opponents will be.
TonyD
14/10/2021, 10:53 AM
I'm sure he has been watching McGrath a while too. ..
Well, given that he signed Jamie McGrath for Dundalk from St Pats, yes I think it’s fair to say he’s pretty familiar with him.
jbyrne
14/10/2021, 11:01 AM
Could we please please please stop with the CR7 business ? Hopefully he changes his shirt number for the next games !
banner being planned for portugal game by YBIG it appears...
elatedscum
14/10/2021, 11:17 AM
banner being planned for portugal game by YBIG it appears...
Doherty has generally worn 7 when Coleman is fit and wearing 2. Interesting to see how it plays out
Diggs246
14/10/2021, 11:34 AM
banner being planned for portugal game by YBIG it appears...
Christ now I will stop it
TonyD
14/10/2021, 12:22 PM
Christ now I will stop it
See ? No good can come from giving credence to these things. It was cringey enough when they started doing it for Ronaldo.
So basically we can end up 2nd,3rd or fourth seeds for euro 2024
To end up in Pot 4 you'll need to be the two worst teams in League B, or possibly the worst team in League B as Germany will already be qualified. If we were to use the current nation's league then Northern Ireland would drop to Pot 4 as they finished 32nd overall. Bulgaria who finished bottom of our group would survive as hosts Germany would be guaranteed qualification.
Olé Olé
14/10/2021, 1:29 PM
Well, given that he signed Jamie McGrath for Dundalk from St Pats, yes I think it’s fair to say he’s pretty familiar with him.
Thanks a million for clarifying. I knew that.
So whatever the decision, make it by the end of the year and stick with it - either we're now moving significantly in the right direction so we should give Kenny a full second chance at qualifying or these last couple of results have just been a blip and we should give a new manager plenty time to prepare for the Euro 24 qualifiers
Exactly you either back him or sack him. They should know by the end of November whether they want to replace him or not, and give any new manager the few months to watch players and March's games to get to see them in camp before going into the nation's leagues. We can't have another MON situation where we're changing managers just before the qualifiers begin again.
Bielsa´s irish
14/10/2021, 4:46 PM
sorry again I must speak up because we must avoid clouds , i am against Kenny and his continuity far from the EUROPA league of Nations but if the team gets victories vs portugal and lux away. .....of course Then I would accept it, his main purpose is to qualify for tourneys not developing kids that is the under 23 and younger teams .
Dont get too optimistic we have made the results it was supposed to be, at the moment he underachieved . He should have challenged port and serbia for 1st or 2 nd spot he was a disgrace on that quest. Moral victories my granny !!!
he did a few things good, but I think we need as Paul McGrath said a proven international manager with a certain success to make us as an impact team hard to get beaten and strong enough to cause havoc against any rivals
Bielsa´s irish
14/10/2021, 4:47 PM
i already said that I would love Eddie Howe or Mark Hughes to motivate the players. if it has to be irish then Neill Lennon or Chris Hughton or the guy at Saint Mirren
seanfhear
14/10/2021, 5:09 PM
i already said that I would love Eddie Howe or Mark Hughes to motivate the players. if it has to be irish then Neill Lennon or Chris Hughton or the guy at Saint Mirren
I’d prefer John Lennon ( and he is not in good shape ) to Neil Lennon !
sorry again I must speak up because we must avoid clouds , i am against Kenny and his continuity far from the EUROPA league of Nations but if the team gets victories vs portugal and lux away. .....of course Then I would accept it, his main purpose is to qualify for tourneys not developing kids that is the under 23 and younger teams .
Dont get too optimistic we have made the results it was supposed to be, at the moment he underachieved . He should have challenged port and serbia for 1st or 2 nd spot he was a disgrace on that quest. Moral victories my granny !!!
he did a few things good, but I think we need as Paul McGrath said a proven international manager with a certain success to make us as an impact team hard to get beaten and strong enough to cause havoc against any rivals
Of course part of his job is to develop kids ! How the hell else are we going to bring through a new team. And of course his job is to qualify for tournaments. Do you think he is under any illusions about that ? It was always going to be tough with a new team. He needs time. The team looks like it's starting to go places now. He has to be given a proper go at the job before just being turfed out. Presumably if the next guy doesn’t qualify he gets the boot too ?
Oh, and you know what you can do with your Eddie Howe or Mark Hughes !
ontheotherhand
14/10/2021, 10:17 PM
People keep getting it backwards. He is there to bring on and develop players so that we have an outside chance of qualifying for tournaments. Why do you think he started with the 21s but with the senior job already lined up? I mean that and the fact that we are broke AF as the kids say of course.
Insidetherock
14/10/2021, 10:36 PM
So basically we can end up 2nd,3rd or fourth seeds for euro 2024
Yep .. spot on
Insidetherock
14/10/2021, 10:43 PM
Ok.. get rid of Kenny.
Get in Mark Hughes.. a wonder coach, with a 29% win rate at international level with Wales.. lost more than he won (12/14)
And his club honours as Manager.. well he was the Premier League Manager of the Month in October 2007... and, that's about it
Sweet Jesus there are people who think journeymen managers who stole a living for over a decade, would be a better bet than Kenny
Sure who not go the whole hog and call for Harry Redknapp and see if he can get Nico Kranjar and Kanu to declare for Ireland
Insidetherock
14/10/2021, 10:47 PM
If Jeff remains on form with cullen as the DM. We could be ok. The 3 at the back with Coleman and Doherty as wing backs has been great.
So with an attacking 3 of CR7, mcgrath. Idah. We start to look like a good outfit
Only issue with Cullen as deep lying CM is his size.. he just seems so small, though maybe I am comparing unfairly against the giants in the Serbian team.
Might there be a case to push either Collins or Omobomidele into that position? A la Paul Mc Grath in the past?
Colbert Report
15/10/2021, 12:44 AM
I think Kenny will be kept on due to finances. He's clearly passionate about the gig and is willing to work for peanuts, which is all we can afford to pay.
jbyrne
15/10/2021, 6:56 AM
I think Kenny will be kept on due to finances. He's clearly passionate about the gig and is willing to work for peanuts, which is all we can afford to pay.
id say his "peanuts" is much higher than a lot of international managers
Diggs246
15/10/2021, 8:00 AM
id say his "peanuts" is much higher than a lot of international managers
Anyone know how much the state gives the FAI every year?
Exgrad
15/10/2021, 8:30 AM
id say his "peanuts" is much higher than a lot of international managers
Yes €540,000 a year (before bonuses) is hardly peanuts.
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