Stephen Kenny

[Razors left peg]

This has to be the case? I can't envisage anything else. He has a great reputation so he could easily get a good gig.
That was my 1st thought when I read it. We'll find out soon enough but seems some lads want to immediately jump on the every thing is sh1te under Kenny narrative

[Olé Olé]

He has played under Mourinho, Allardyce and Hodgson in the Premiership. Probably has mates in the championship. There's the Celtic job in the future. A lot of possibilities. It would take a very strong explanation for this given results, Robbie and leaving Celtic.

[Razors left peg]

Has he? I thought he just sat out the last trio of games (for asthma/covid/leaking the video/whatever reasons)?
Maybe that was it. Wasn't nothing said since

[Trequartista20]

I'd be surprised if, for example, Alan Kelly remained in his role. But members of the coaching staff can be replaced with others of commensurate ability.

The worry has to be that, as with McGoldrick, who still had a lot to contribute, other players start to defect. There have already been rumours circulating about Randolph deciding to call it a day, which would be a huge blow.

Our resources are already very slim.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, that's fair, and I guess we'll see what happens Kelly in March.

I don't get a sinking ship vibe off the squad though - albeit that the ship is so rickety at the moment anyway that any departure is amplified.

[Razors left peg]

I'd be surprised if, for example, Alan Kelly remained in his role. But members of the coaching staff can be replaced with others of commensurate ability.

The worry has to be that, as with McGoldrick, who still had a lot to contribute, other players start to defect. There have already been rumours circulating about Randolph deciding to call it a day, which would be a huge blow.

Our resources are already very slim.
Randolph is an older sub keeper for his club, hardly a disaster if we replace him with a younger sub keeper... some including me think it should happen anyway

[Razors left peg]

Yeah, that's fair, and I guess we'll see what happens Kelly in March.

I don't get a sinking ship vibe off the squad though - albeit that the ship is so rickety at the moment anyway that any departure is amplified.
Let's see what the ship looks like after he's had a few games with his 1st choice players and not 5 different guys dropping out every game because of covid

[pineapple stu]

Still crap with no forwards! :p

But yeah, I'm not too concerned (yet) about the autumn form for that reason.

[Diggs246]

Why wouldn't Duff just say "i miss club football " I'm going to Barcelona or home farm or whatever .... i think he has quit tbh

[Razors left peg]

Why wouldn't Duff just say "i miss club football " I'm going to Barcelona or home farm or whatever .... i think he has quit tbh
How do u know that. All we got is a press release from the FAI. Duff hasn't said anything publicly yet

[Diggs246]

Exactly?? That's my point

[Trequartista20]

The narrative from the Kenny lobby used to be 'our former managers did us down, we do have the players and are capable of playing good football'. After a string of poor results and performances this stance has dramatically shifted to 'we don't have the players, we're s**t, so why should we expect any better?'

Thus leading to the inevitable question: why the ardour for Kenny?

If we really are quite so awful - so lacking in quality - it really oughtn't to matter who is in charge. Our situation is hopeless in any case.

[Trequartista20]

Randolph is an older sub keeper for his club, hardly a disaster if we replace him with a younger sub keeper... some including me think it should happen anyway

Are you talking about our next-in-line, Kelleher?

Kelleher has made one league appearance in his entire career, and is yet to make a senior international appearance.

I think it reasonably uncontroversial to suggest Randolph has made made rather more league and international appearances than that and that his non-availability would be very significantly to our detriment.

[nigel-harps1954]

Why wouldn't Duff just say "i miss club football " I'm going to Barcelona or home farm or whatever .... i think he has quit tbh

He's already involved in club football too. He's Shelbournes under-17 manager.

[Charlie Darwin]

Why wouldn't Duff just say "i miss club football " I'm going to Barcelona or home farm or whatever .... i think he has quit tbh
Well I don't think anybody is arguing that he's quit. That's kind of what the press release is announcing.

[Diggs246]

I mean he is leaving without securing another job

[Charlie Darwin]

He has a job already, and I'm not sure what anyone can glean about potential other jobs because he's said nothing.

[Diggs246]

He isnt leaving the rep of Ireland set up to concentrate on shelies u17s.!

[elatedscum]

"No reason has been given for Duff's departure, although it is understood he was unhappy at an investigation launched into a video shown to the Ireland players before their friendly against England at Wembley in November last year." - RTE.ie

He was unhappy that there was an investigation and didn't want to work with the FAI or he was unhappy at the results of the investigation? I'm assuming it's the former?

Maybe Duffer was the person who put the video together

[seanfhear]

"No reason has been given for Duff's departure, although it is understood he was unhappy at an investigation launched into a video shown to the Ireland players before their friendly against England at Wembley in November last year." - RTE.ie

He was unhappy that there was an investigation and didn't want to work with the FAI or he was unhappy at the results of the investigation? I'm assuming it's the former?

Maybe Duffer was the person who put the video together
All that Hoo Ha Ha about that Video seemed to be greatly exaggerated by elements in the FAI ~ ~ Did any head roll for those manipulations = = Pretty Sure No ~ This is Ireland after all !

Sometimes the elements within are the most insidious !

[Olé Olé]

Just on videogate, Roy Barrett addressed the matter for the first time in public last week and admitted the whole thing was overblown: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the42.ie/fai-videogate-5314665-Jan2021/%3famp=1

Little insight on this in the Indo today from Dan McDonnell but that "it's believed attempts by Kenny and (sic) during the week to change Duff's mind proved fruitless."

Further into the paper, Aidan Fitzmaurice makes some pretty baseless implications and offers plenty speculation. He has some phantom quote from some unknown player that sounds good, offers little insight and could easily be made up: ""It won't last," was the comment by one former ex-international when Duff was added to the Kenny ticket last year."

Fitzmaurice also says that "Kenny is said to have relied heavily on (Keith) Andrews for counsel and also listened to Ruaidhri Higgins, a long time associate going back to his Derry City days, leaving Duff with an undefined voice." Again, this all read fairly thin to me. None of it makes much sense to me when you consider Duff's body of work as a player and a coach compared to the other pair. I just can't see it. Shoddy journalism in my opinion.

[seanfhear]

Where does Duff go from here ? He is 40 ~ If he is going to be a manager then surely he must start now.

[Razors left peg]

Are you talking about our next-in-line, Kelleher?

Kelleher has made one league appearance in his entire career, and is yet to make a senior international appearance.

I think it reasonably uncontroversial to suggest Randolph has made made rather more league and international appearances than that and that his non-availability would be very significantly to our detriment.

Yep, I've said for a while that if Kenny wants to implement the style of football he's been trying he needs to replace Randolph and Duffy.

People thought Guardiola was mad when one of his 1st decisions at City was to get rid of Joe Hart. England's 1st choice at the time but he was a disaster with ball at his feet. I can't even remember who he replaced him with until they eventually signed Ederson. It was all about setting up the passing game from the back.

I wouldn't find it a shock to see an up and coming keeper like Kelleher replacing a guy who's now just happy to pick up a paycheck at his club.

[John83]

I wouldn't find it a shock to see an up and coming keeper like Kelleher replacing a guy who's now just happy to pick up a paycheck at his club.
It would be very welcome if he does. It will be less so if we're forced to call on him before he's ready. The signs have been promising, but that's no guarantee in football.

[tetsujin1979]

Strangely, Duffy had one of the highest pass completion rates in the squad from the Nations League games

[Razors left peg]

Strangely, Duffy had one of the highest pass completion rates in the squad from the Nations League games
He was on the ball a lot but he played a lot of very poor passes that put us under pressure. We never once looked at those games and thought Duffy was becoming the new Beckenbauer

[Olé Olé]

FAI's handling of 'Videogate' led to Damien Duff's exit from Irish backroom staff https://the42.ie/5320946

Gavin Cooney has gone all out and written a piece to state that videogate has caused his departure. He uses some very interesting quotes from Duff that I hadn't read previously about how Duff didn't want to work for the FAI only for Kenny's involvement.

[Trequartista20]

Yep, I've said for a while that if Kenny wants to implement the style of football he's been trying he needs to replace Randolph and Duffy.

People thought Guardiola was mad when one of his 1st decisions at City was to get rid of Joe Hart. England's 1st choice at the time but he was a disaster with ball at his feet. I can't even remember who he replaced him with until they eventually signed Ederson. It was all about setting up the passing game from the back.

I wouldn't find it a shock to see an up and coming keeper like Kelleher replacing a guy who's now just happy to pick up a paycheck at his club.

I'd throw the kids in too to be honest. Such is our situation that we've little to lose.

But we need to drop the pretence that the the composition of our World Cup draw opposition matters and that we have any sort of realistic chance of qualification. Or that the the futile re-incorporation of the likes of Arter into the set-up and making Horgan a first-team regular makes any sort of sense.

[tetsujin1979]

we were fourth seeds for the last world cup and we still made the play offs. We were third seeds in the draw this time do we should be aiming for the play offs again as a minimum

[pineapple stu]

Play-offs "as a minimum"?

I mean, we can aim to win the group by taking each game as it comes, but topping the group ahead of the reigning European champions isn't a realistic target. This isn't 1994 any more...

[Colbert Report]

I was born in 1983. This is by far the weakest group of players we've had to pick from in my time watching football. Qualifying for the World Cup in 2026 is not a realistic target, never mind 2022.

[Eirambler]

I would agree as regards 2022. I think it's far to early to know what standard we might be at by the time the 2026 qualifiers roll around though. I'd say there were a lot of Irish football supporters in 1985 who thought we'd probably never qualify for anything ever.

Things can change quickly. But not quickly enough for this year's World Cup qualifiers if we're being honest.

[jbyrne]

Play-offs "as a minimum"?

I mean, we can aim to win the group by taking each game as it comes, but topping the group ahead of the reigning European champions isn't a realistic target. This isn't 1994 any more...

get to play offs and win the semi. that would constitute "getting to the play offs as a minimum" without topping the group...

[Razors left peg]

I'd throw the kids in too to be honest. Such is our situation that we've little to lose.

But we need to drop the pretence that the the composition of our World Cup draw opposition matters and that we have any sort of realistic chance of qualification. Or that the the futile re-incorporation of the likes of Arter into the set-up and making Horgan a first-team regular makes any sort of sense.
I do think we have a realistic chance of playoffs. I think that we will be much better in March with hopefully a settled squad and no covid.

I completely agree with you about Arter or Horgan. I'd much rather play a younger player that could develop into something than a guy how has never been anything. I still think Connolly and Parrott will be great for us, and we have some very good young midfield options in Molumby, Knight and Cullen.

I'm still very positive about Kenny, I think he's done well in ridiculous circumstances. But I might change my opinion if March is a disaster

[Charlie Darwin]

I was born in 1983. This is by far the weakest group of players we've had to pick from in my time watching football. Qualifying for the World Cup in 2026 is not a realistic target, never mind 2022.
I dunno, there have been a few times over the years we'd have said similar things. The team that went through qualifying for the 98 World Cup, despite finishing second, weren't great by any means. But a few months later we had Robbie and Duff and things looked different. Drawing at home to Iceland and Lithuania and losing in Macedonia were far worse results than this group have produced.

[John83]

we were fourth seeds for the last world cup and we still made the play offs. We were third seeds in the draw this time do we should be aiming for the play offs again as a minimum


What do you mean by "as a minimum"? As in, it's an abject failure to finish third with the current pool of players? That's cloud cuckoo land stuff.


get to play offs and win the semi. that would constitute "getting to the play offs as a minimum" without topping the group...


No, that would constitute getting to the playoffs and winning the semi.

[Diggs246]

Putting covid and player pool aside. No one could possibly think Stephen kenny has done a good job to date. He might, and fingers crossed will do a good job in the future, but 1 goal in 9 games and obviously 0 wins is appalling

[tetsujin1979]

What do you mean by "as a minimum"? As in, it's an abject failure to finish third with the current pool of players? That's cloud cuckoo land stuff.
Considering that we finished second in the last world cup qualifiers, as fourth seeds, in a much tougher group, finishing third would be a step back IMO.


No, that would constitute getting to the playoffs and winning the semi.
getting to the play offs, and losing the semi, by finishing second in the group should be the minimum.

[John83]

Well, I disagree that it's realistically something we can currently expect, but I certainly hope for an outcome that good. Who knows? If Connolly - or anyone else - starts scoring for us soon enough then my expectations may rise quickly, but we're up against a couple of sides that would consider finishing below us an utterly disastrous qualifying. How many experienced players do we have who aren't considered past it by many here?

I'm looking at the squad and recent call-ups on wikipedia. There are three categories of player:


Senior players I've read lengthy arguments here to drop as they're not good enough / unsuited to the system / past it: Randolf, Duffy, Christie, Shane Long, and every senior midfielder we have: Hendrick, McClean, O'Dowda, McCarthy, Arter, Brady and Hourihane.
Players with under a dozen caps. (Only Maguire, Horgan, and Browne are close, and the flaws of the first two have been argued about extensively)
That leaves three full backs (Coleman, Doherty and Stevens) and three centre halves (Clarke, Long and Egan)? Oh, and our great hope: Callum Robinson, 15 caps, 1 goal.

Six defenders and a forward who doesn't score is not the core of a squad that's going to scare Serbia or Portugal. That's what Kenny is working with.

My minimum expectation is that Kenny ends the campaign with a rejuvenated squad in which we've identified a starting midfield and forward line capable of creating and converting chances, while more or less preserving our defensive stats. After that, we'll actually be in a position to expect results, maybe even very good ones. If it happens right away we can hope to compete in the group, and if it happens too late, Kenny will be sacked. I think the latter is the more likely outcome, followed by an intermediate result where we start poorly / inconsistently and improve dramatically over the campaign. I would like to be wrong.

[tetsujin1979]

Portugal are going to top the group, possibly with a 100% record, I'm not arguing that.
The two games against Serbia will decide second spot, a draw in the opening game in March will be a decent result, and we should have at least six points before we play them again in September (beat Luxembourg, beat Azerbaijan. lose to Portugal) that game will be a must win to finish second and get into the play offs.

[John83]

I see no reason to assume that we'll match their results against the rest of the group given our current toothlessness.

[Diggs246]

Portugal are going to top the group, possibly with a 100% record, I'm not arguing that.
The two games against Serbia will decide second spot, a draw in the opening game in March will be a decent result, and we should have at least six points before we play them again in September (beat Luxembourg, beat Azerbaijan. lose to Portugal) that game will be a must win to finish second and get into the play offs.


results like this scare me greatly, I would be suprised is we get max points off them
=

09/09/19
ECQ (https://int.soccerway.com/international/europe/european-championship-qualification/2020/qualifying-round/group-e/g12191/)
Azerbaijan (https://int.soccerway.com/teams/azerbaijan/azerbaijan/192/)
1 - 1 (https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2019/09/09/europe/european-championship-qualification/azerbaijan/croatia/2942883/)
Croatia (https://int.soccerway.com/teams/croatia/croatia/514/)

[tetsujin1979]

results like this scare me greatly, I would be suprised is we get max points off them
=

09/09/19
ECQ (https://int.soccerway.com/international/europe/european-championship-qualification/2020/qualifying-round/group-e/g12191/)
Azerbaijan (https://int.soccerway.com/teams/azerbaijan/azerbaijan/192/)
1 - 1 (https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2019/09/09/europe/european-championship-qualification/azerbaijan/croatia/2942883/)
Croatia (https://int.soccerway.com/teams/croatia/croatia/514/)



That was the only game in that qualifying group they didn't lose - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2020_qualifying_Group_E#Standings
They've won six games in the last three years (Faroes twice, Latvia, Bahrain, Kyrgyzstan, and Cyprus), haven't won at home since November 2018, and are currently on a run of four consecutive 0-0 draws.
It might be tougher than people think, but we should still get six points from them

[Diggs246]

That was the only game in that qualifying group they didn't lose - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2020_qualifying_Group_E#Standings
They've won six games in the last three years (Faroes twice, Latvia, Bahrain, Kyrgyzstan, and Cyprus), haven't won at home since November 2018, and are currently on a run of four consecutive 0-0 draws.
It might be tougher than people think, but we should still get six points from them

Fair enough, 1 point in their qualifying group, would suggest they are not to be feared ala Georgia

[pineapple stu]

Considering that we finished second in the last world cup qualifiers, as fourth seeds, in a much tougher group, finishing third would be a step back IMO.
Have you seen how our squad now compares to the squad for the last World Cup campaign?


getting to the play offs, and losing the semi, by finishing second in the group should be the minimum.
This is absolute nonsense. Seriously. There's nothing more to be said. Serbia have a player who's scored almost as many international goals in the last 5 years as the entire Irish team have. We are odds against to finish second in the group. Something that's odds against cannot be the minimum expectation.

[osarusan]

I just hope we score a goal during the campaign.

[Bielsa´s irish]

weve got to get out and beat the serbs this time, and hope a flawless campaign from Portugal...Serbia got it hard first two games will define their fate at home.

[Real ale Madrid]

I just hope we score a goal during the campaign.

If we got 1 goal per game in the last 7 competitive games we would have gotten to the play off final v NIR and 10 nations league points. Given our xG (washes out mouth) was 1.31 I'm hopeful of a competitive campaign.

[Charlie Darwin]

We're keeping a few clean sheets, to be fair. The record in front of goal is obviously awful but the passing style doesn't seem to make us any more vulnerable at the back than we were playing puke football.

[Snapshot]

Putting covid and player pool aside. No one could possibly think Stephen kenny has done a good job to date. He might, and fingers crossed will do a good job in the future, but 1 goal in 9 games and obviously 0 wins is appalling

Agree. An apparent inability and/or reluctance to alter or tweak tactics during games is what worries me most about Stephen Kenny. Hopefully he's learned from the goalless run because his credibility has taken a massive hit. He needs improvement before crowds return or he'll get one hell of a bollicking.