Stephen Kenny

[tetsujin1979]

The "no players in nine years" part of Kenny's monologue after the Gibraltar game was bothering me so I did some checking.
I don't think it really holds up
1671858530180116480

[Diggs246]

The "no players in nine years" part of Kenny's monologue after the Gibraltar game was bothering me so I did some checking.
I don't think it really holds up
https://twitter.com/irish_abroad/status/1671838980390748161

His statement wasn't directed at the journalists or the fans
That was for the board of the FAI

It was like David Brent " please don't fire me"

[Diggs246]

Looking at that O Neill brought in way more guys then kenny !!

[zero]

The "no players in nine years" part of Kenny's monologue after the Gibraltar game was bothering me so I did some checking.
I don't think it really holds up
https://twitter.com/irish_abroad/status/1671838980390748161

I assume he meant came through from u19/u21 etc and then made senior debuts either while still eligible for the u21s or just after, which I guess the above doesn't show... but Mick did give debuts to Connolly, Parrott, Travers and O'Connor who all played for the underage teams.

Maybe he just didn't explain what he meant correctly. I think I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one...

[tetsujin1979]

His statement wasn't directed at the journalists or the fans
That was for the board of the FAI

It was like David Brent " please don't fire me"

It was in front of a group of journalists in the corridor outside the dressing room, it wasn't a press release, or something he posted online
https://www.the42.ie/stephen-kenny-speech-6098557-Jun2023/

[Diggs246]

I assume he meant came through from u19/u21 etc and then made senior debuts either while still eligible for the u21s or just after, which I guess the above doesn't show... but Mick did give debuts to Connolly, Parrott, Travers and O'Connor who all played for the underage teams.

Maybe he just didn't explain what he meant correctly. I think I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one...

I wouldn't assume that. In fact I don't think that's what he was saying
I think he was referring to senior debuts

[Diggs246]

It was in front of a group of journalists in the corridor outside the dressing room, it wasn't a press release, or something he posted online
https://www.the42.ie/stephen-kenny-speech-6098557-Jun2023/

I know that
But I still think it was for the benefit of his employers. Theyvr obviously seen it.
Btw it's pretty clear he will be Insitu until September.

[passinginterest]

I'd have took the "nine years" to be an exaggeration of the issue we've explored here quite a few times. There's a group of 30 something players and a group who were all still eligible to play under 21 up to this season. I'd say that's where the 9 years is roughly coming from. The gap between the now 23ish and under players he has brought through and the senior squad players the wrong side of 30. That's the gap, no players came through the Irish system. The few players that we have in the middle are players like Cullen, O'Dowda, Robinson, who were entirely developed in the UK system. That would be my take on it.

[ifk101]

I think the gish of what Kenny had to say stands up - the comment doesn't need to be taken literally, especially as it was off-the-cuff. I'd rather see a chart of playing minutes per debutant out of total possible playing minutes. Because current senior players like Egan, Doherty, and Cullen were capped before Kenny but it was Kenny who integrated them into the starting team. Think it is fair to say Kenny has made more widespread changes to the squad, while previous managers were more conservative in making changes. Of the debuts O'Neill gave - maybe only Duffy established himself as a starter under his tenure? McCarthy wasn't in charge for too long so no benefit in pointing out he gave few playing minutes to the players he capped. Kenny has integrated his debutants in the team/ squad others before didn't do.

[elatedscum]

Even if the details aren’t correct, the reality is. If I remember correctly, we had the oldest squad in both euro 2012 and euro 2016.

In the last campaign, we had something like 10 u21s called up:

Bazunu
Ebosele
Collins
Omobamidele
Coventry
Knight
Connolly
Parrott
Idah
Obafemi

Obviously only 8 of 10 were capped but I looked it up at some point and Luxembourg were second most u21s involved in Europe with about 5 players.

Subsequently, Ferguson and Smallbone have also come through. So overall we’ve gone from having the oldest squad in Europe to probably the youngest

[passinginterest]

To maybe further back up his point, in that list of debutants, there's not a single player under 20 capped who came through the Irish system in any way until Aaron Connolly was capped my Mick Mac. Kenny has capped five in his time and all could be considered to be established squad players already. That's a world away from what had gone before. The previous two players who came through the Irish system and became established squad players were Enda Stevens, at age 27 and Matt Doherty at age 26. So it is a considerable gap in players coming through the system.

[Razors left peg]

To maybe further back up his point, in that list of debutants, there's not a single player under 20 capped who came through the Irish system in any way until Aaron Connolly was capped my Mick Mac. Kenny has capped five in his time and all could be considered to be established squad players already. That's a world away from what had gone before. The previous two players who came through the Irish system and became established squad players were Enda Stevens, at age 27 and Matt Doherty at age 26. So it is a considerable gap in players coming through the system.

Just on the Connolly point. I remember the away game vs Georgia there were calls for Connolly to start as he had scored in Premiership by that stage. Mick went conservative, Connolly came on as sub and was instantly impactful.

I know we say that any manager would have picked Ferguson, but Kenny did pick him before he got in at Brighton at a time no one called for it.

I think it's fair to say some lads in the team have been pushed to an important role in team or squad too soon under Kenny but we will see the benefits of it in years to come.

[Diggs246]

Just on the Connolly point. I remember the away game vs Georgia there were calls for Connolly to start as he had scored in Premiership by that stage. Mick went conservative, Connolly came on as sub and was instantly impactful.

I know we say that any manager would have picked Ferguson, but Kenny did pick him before he got in at Brighton at a time no one called for it.

I think it's fair to say some lads in the team have been pushed to an important role in team or squad too soon under Kenny but we will see the benefits of it in years to come.

Im not sure thats right actually. Ferguson was playing and scoring for Brighton from August, he made his irish debut against Norway on 17 November, coming on as a 89th minute sub

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Ferguson

[ontheotherhand]

I'd have took the "nine years" to be an exaggeration of the issue we've explored here quite a few times. There's a group of 30 something players and a group who were all still eligible to play under 21 up to this season. I'd say that's where the 9 years is roughly coming from. The gap between the now 23ish and under players he has brought through and the senior squad players the wrong side of 30. That's the gap, no players came through the Irish system. The few players that we have in the middle are players like Cullen, O'Dowda, Robinson, who were entirely developed in the UK system. That would be my take on it.

Yeah that makes sense to me. Pretty much everyone paying attention knew we were going to have to bring through those younger players quickly to fill the gap that was coming. With that we were going to struggle at times. I've defended Kenny along those lines here before but I don't think he's gotten that point across very well by mentioning raw numbers of players brought through or saying nobody was brought through previously. It's a problem for us and as ES points out it was a dramatic shift in terms of our average age. If we had even 2 or 3 more lads at 26-30 playing EPL or Championship level we'd be in good shape. As it is we are already heaping the pressure on to an 18 year old.

That said, Kenny should still do better with what he's now got. There's a decent core team there now with a proper focal point up top and even a creative outlet in Johnston. Not maybe enough creative outlets but a team that should be able to compete with Greece.

Maybe it will click soon but it always feels like we see a little improvement and then it all falls to pieces again.

[SkStu]

Im not sure thats right actually. Ferguson was playing and scoring for Brighton from August, he made his irish debut against Norway on 17 November, coming on as a 89th minute sub

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Ferguson

He didnt make a PL appearance until December 2022 (he was on the bench twice to that point and I think did make a sub appearance toward the end of the previous season - so have many other uncapped players). He played once in the EFL Cup in August 2022, scoring against Forest Green. "Before he got in" I take to mean as starting consistently and making an impression.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/evan-ferguson/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/648046

[Diggs246]

Yeah that makes sense to me. Pretty much everyone paying attention knew we were going to have to bring through those younger players quickly to fill the gap that was coming. With that we were going to struggle at times. I've defended Kenny along those lines here before but I don't think he's gotten that point across very well by mentioning raw numbers of players brought through or saying nobody was brought through previously. It's a problem for us and as ES points out it was a dramatic shift in terms of our average age. If we had even 2 or 3 more lads at 26-30 playing EPL or Championship level we'd be in good shape. As it is we are already heaping the pressure on to an 18 year old.

That said, Kenny should still do better with what he's now got. There's a decent core team there now with a proper focal point up top and even a creative outlet in Johnston. Not maybe enough creative outlets but a team that should be able to compete with Greece.

Maybe it will click soon but it always feels like we see a little improvement and then it all falls to pieces again.

"everyone paying attention knew we were going to have to bring through those younger players quickly to fill the gap"

But did Stephen not play almost the same team as Mick for the first year of his tenure?

[Diggs246]

He didnt make a PL appearance until December 2022 (he was on the bench twice to that point and I think did make a sub appearance toward the end of the previous season - so have many other uncapped players). He played once in the EFL Cup in August 2022, scoring against Forest Green. "Before he got in" I take to mean as starting consistently and making an impression.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/evan-ferguson/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/648046

Fair enough. I remember thinking he should have played against Malta but its not unreasonable to have held back playing him if that's all he'd done

[Razors left peg]

Im not sure thats right actually. Ferguson was playing and scoring for Brighton from August, he made his irish debut against Norway on 17 November, coming on as a 89th minute sub

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Ferguson


His first Premiership goal was against Arsenal on December 31st and it was only after that he started playing regularly for Brighton. I remember when he was called up for the Ireland squad before that I raised an eyebrow myself and thought it was a bit too soon for him.

[Razors left peg]

I actually just went back into the Norway game thread to see if I had made a comment about Ferguson being called up, I hadnt but I definitely thought it. It was noticeable though how little excitement there was for the call up, very few comments on it at all really.

There was two I just pulled that thought were interesting:

Regarding Will Keane and Scott Hogan pulling out "That's not good... The two guys I was most hoping to see given game time tbh"

"I don't think Ferguson is ready for this level yet, so striker options are indeed short. Probably forces Kenny's hand to play a stronger than intended lineup against the banana skin so blessing in disguise Keane is injured?"

Im not trying to dig anyone out here, but only in November some were looking at the safer options of Will Keane and Scott Hogan! I myself would have thought along the lines of the 2nd comment

[ontheotherhand]

"everyone paying attention knew we were going to have to bring through those younger players quickly to fill the gap"

But did Stephen not play almost the same team as Mick for the first year of his tenure?

Yeah he was a bit slower to bring in the newer players than I'd have hoped but they were also even less experienced then. A year in international football isn't a very long period of time and I think he probably felt like the players who did fairly well for Mick were still worth their place. Also, if he'd immediately dropped them all he could hardly call on them if it turned out the younger lads weren't ready or needed more experience around them. I think a lot of managers would have struggled to get the balance right early on.....but equally, a lot of managers would have made it work eventually and Kenny doesn't seem to be getting there.

[Razors left peg]

Yeah he was a bit slower to bring in the newer players than I'd have hoped but they were also even less experienced then. A year in international football isn't a very long period of time and I think he probably felt like the players who did fairly well for Mick were still worth their place. Also, if he'd immediately dropped them all he could hardly call on them if it turned out the younger lads weren't ready or needed more experience around them. I think a lot of managers would have struggled to get the balance right early on.....but equally, a lot of managers would have made it work eventually and Kenny doesn't seem to be getting there.

A lot of Kennys early games there were also 8-10 pull outs every squad with covid etc so it was probably hard to discard any player

[pineapple stu]

My reading of this particular room is just as I said it in my opening line above: you really do seem to only praise Bazunu begrudgingly, and I feel too that you take a particularly firm interpretation of his club situation “he’s not good enough”. It really feels like you just don’t like him.

I don’t think I’m alone in noticing this, see for example Crafty’s fireplace gag.

I honestly didn't realise I had made a personal attack, and certainly didn't intend to. Apologies.
Yet there was nothing begrudging about my analysis of his performance in Greece. He had a very solid game. Nothing he could do for either goal, solid handling throughout, one very good save.

I get frustrated by players continually being bigged up - and then when it comes to discussing the point, people run behind stuff like "It feels like you just don't like him" or the fireplace nonsense or "He's only 21 and doing fine", none of which has anything to do with anything. It'd be better, surely, to actually discuss the reasons why I don't think he was "keeping us in the game" while pointing out another goalkeeping performance I did think constituted keeping a team in the game. (And again, honourable mention to otoh for doing exactly that)

[samhaydenjr]

O’Shea, Omobamidele and to a lesser extend Collins would be years behind at this stage. John Egan made his competitive debut for Ireland a week before his 27th birthday, while playing premier league for Sheffield United. Genuinely 3 years later than he was ready…

Well, in the summer of 2016, Egan had played a grand total of 1 league game at Championship level. Meanwhile, Martin O'Neill had two established Premier League defenders (O'Shea and Clark) and two established Championship defenders (Duffy and Keogh). So while Egan might have become "ready" to feature by the end of that campaign, it's understandable that he would not have been getting game time during those qualifiers ahead of that quartet

[tetsujin1979]

Kevin Kilbane thinks Kenny's time is up after these last two games, and his speech to the journalists
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/2023/06/24/stephen-kennys-soliloquy-was-nothing-more-than-gimmickry/
(paywalled, usual workarounds will work around)

[Diggs246]

Kevin Kilbane thinks Kenny's time is up after these last two games, and his speech to the journalists
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/2023/06/24/stephen-kennys-soliloquy-was-nothing-more-than-gimmickry/
(paywalled, usual workarounds will work around)
He's in 100% agreement with me about our defense and attack units being good. We need to solve the midfield problem and that will mean thinking outside the box

[pineapple stu]

We need to solve the midfield problem and that will mean thinking outside the box
Seems to be stating the obvious - inside the box thinking would be about our goalkeepers surely? :p

[Trequartista20]

Interesting article. Kenny's time is up; he's not up to the task and I think we all know that.

If even Kenny's basic team structure and formation are at question at this stage - getting on for three years into the role - then I really do despair. I suspect it was Anthony Barry who lobbied for and then had a significant hand in our moving to a back three. SK isn't able to successfully utilise this system without him, and this much seems painfully obvious.

We are obviously inadequate both defensively and in attack, as was made clear in chastening defeat to Greece. We concede chances and goals cheaply and regularly, and are almost wholly reliant on set-pieces and individual moments of brilliance from the likes of Obafemi and Collins for goals.

[Trequartista20]

Good article by Paul Rowan.

Judgement Day for Kenny:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/judgment-day-for-stephen-kenny-as-fai-board-meets-to-discuss-his-ireland-future-trb0m08v3

[Diggs246]

And a terrible one from.Eamonn Sweeney

https://m.independent.ie/sport/eamonn-sweeney-stabbing-stephen-kenny-in-the-back-to-suit-lee-carsleys-schedule-would-be-a-disaster-for-ireland/a803065425.html

[Diggs246]

Does the article say when the board meeting is?

[Trequartista20]

And a terrible one from.Eamonn Sweeney

https://m.independent.ie/sport/eamonn-sweeney-stabbing-stephen-kenny-in-the-back-to-suit-lee-carsleys-schedule-would-be-a-disaster-for-ireland/a803065425.html

Yup, pretty bad.

How can the dismissal of a person greatly underachieving in their highly-paid role, having been afforded unprecedented levels of time and patience, amount to a 'stab in the back'?


Does the article say when the board meeting is?

The board meets on Tuesday to discuss Kenny's future.

[Diggs246]

Yup, pretty bad.

How can the dismissal of a person greatly underachieving in their highly-paid role, having been afforded unprecedented levels of time and patience, amount to a 'stab in the back'?



The board meets on Tuesday to discuss Kenny's future.

The stab in the back thing is obnoxious. If he was flying and fired then maybe

I also can't stand him infairing the tough draw isn't in any way Stephens fault

We are in pot 3 and Stephen is in no way free from criticism in relation to this

[third policeman]

Here's the ultimate counter-example to Kenny.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66008108

A coach with a not dissimilar pool of talent (better midfield options, but probably weaker forward, defensive and goalkeeping options) achieving dramatically better results through organisation and professional coaching ability. Kenny is a spoofer who has been found out. There is nothing to be achieved by prolonging the agony. He will not suddently develop the skill-set of an international class coach no matter how much time, hope, goodwill or procrastination is expended in an obvious lost clause. Roll on Tuesday.

[CraftyToePoke]

Here's the ultimate counter-example to Kenny.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66008108

A coach with a not dissimilar pool of talent (better midfield options, but probably weaker forward, defensive and goalkeeping options) achieving dramatically better results through organisation and professional coaching ability. Kenny is a spoofer who has been found out. There is nothing to be achieved by prolonging the agony. He will not suddently develop the skill-set of an international class coach no matter how much time, hope, goodwill or procrastination is expended in an obvious lost clause. Roll on Tuesday.

It's true they are arguably weaker in the areas you highlight them as being but in midfield they can pick

McGinn - new four year deal at moneybags Villa and when you consider him & Hourihane were together in midfield when they were promoted & the trajectory of our guy since, its fairly chalk & cheese.

McGregor - key midfielder in a golden Celtic period league wise.

McTomminay - ManU regular with 25 or so apps again last season.

Gilmour - nine million Brighton signing who tend to do good business, needs a better season than the one he just had granted.

Now I'm not defending SK here at all, by posting this but we can pick f u c k all like that across the middle & the middle of the pitch is quite important traditionally in winning games, controlling games & passing during games whatever you think of any manager at any given juncture in any team.

[pineapple stu]

I think we'd take Tierney and Robertson in defence too.

They're surprisingly weak in nets and up front though - certainly they're outperforming us by way more than the squads would say

[Jd2793]

their midfield would cope in the prem for 38 games. ours is lower level championship. the levels are crazy. yeah they are weak in goals + up top but if you have a midfield + defence that good you should win more games than you lose

[liamoo11]

their midfield would cope in the prem for 38 games. ours is lower level championship. the levels are crazy. yeah they are weak in goals + up top but if you have a midfield + defence that good you should win more games than you lose

That day we beat them in Dublin the advantage got in midfield through Cullen and molumby was the key

[Jd2793]

That day we beat them in Dublin the advantage got in midfield through Cullen and molumby was the key

molumby is a terrier, great in games when he can just chase after the ball. hes useless when we need passing from midfield imo. not near any of those scottish players. gilmour is the kind of player we badly need, someone with good ability on the ball who can dictate/change a game

[Trequartista20]

Molumby was very good against Scotland I thought, both in and out of possession - we did win the game 3-0 after all - and largely as a result of that performance has emerged as a integral component of Kenny's team.

As poor as he was in the Athens debacle - a game in which few of our players emerged with any great credit - I don't think he's as technically inept as is being suggested. And certainly not 'useless', which is as you would expect as a product of the Brighton system.

I believe he had the highest pass completion rate of any WBA player last season and is currently being linked with an £8m move to Leeds.

[tetsujin1979]

And a terrible one from.Eamonn Sweeney

https://m.independent.ie/sport/eamonn-sweeney-stabbing-stephen-kenny-in-the-back-to-suit-lee-carsleys-schedule-would-be-a-disaster-for-ireland/a803065425.html
I have a few issues with that article. Here's some of them


His team played far worse when losing to Luxembourg and Armenia. The first game preceded a run of just one defeat, to an injury-time goal away against Portugal, in ten matches.

The second (the loss to Armenia) was followed, one week later, by a 3-0 win over Scotland which was Ireland’s best performance under Kenny. He deserves a shot at a similar redemptionwhy didn't Sweeney mention the loss to Ukraine, which came before the Scotland game, and effectively ended any chance of promotion from the Nations League group after two games?


We say teams make their own luck. But the combination of the hardest possible group draw and the subsequent results elsewhere is sheer misfortune. What could Kenny do about either? win more game in the last two years, earn a higher ranking, and then not be in the third seeds?


He has made mistakes. The wretched Callum O’Dowda was an accident waiting to happen in Athens. For all the talk of general tactical miscalculation, Ireland could have scraped a draw had James McClean started instead. O'Dowda was part of the problem. Setting the team up to be overloaded three against two in the left of defence, where both goals came from, was a much bigger issue IMO


A lot of people caught Stephen Kenny’s dreams. If those dreams don’t come true it’ll leave a hole in Irish football’s soul. The return to reality will be painful enough without being preceded by a panicky decision smacking of the old FAI at its very worst.I would argue that that the last two long term managers were allowed to stay on for one campaign too many. Removing the current manager would be an example of moving away from those decisions

[Diggs246]

I have a few issues with that article. Here's some of them

why didn't Sweeney mention the loss to Ukraine, which came before the Scotland game, and effectively ended any chance of promotion from the Nations League group after two games?

win more game in the last two years, earn a higher ranking, and then not be in the third seeds?

O'Dowda was part of the problem. Setting the team up to be overloaded three against two in the left of defence, where both goals came from, was a much bigger issue IMO

I would argue that that the last two long term managers were allowed to stay on for one campaign too many. Removing the current manager would be an example of moving away from those decisions

100% in everything
He is a mortifying apologist for Stephen.

This article would indicate his rant on Monday was also nonsense
( I accept this journalist hates him, but I guess what he states is correct)
https://extra.ie/2023/06/25/sport/soccernews/stephen-kenny-numbers-misleading

[Diggs246]

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/gerard-oregan-sacking-stephen-kenny-isnt-the-answer-but-questions-remain/a1558620855.html

This guy wants Stephen to get a new contract.

He finishes his article with this classic.

"The results are better then they appear"

Oh please please explain..

[osarusan]

Tbf, I don't think losses to Netherlands and France are automatic sacking material. They are both sides that are just easily better than us. If they get their act together, they should beat us.

Now, if they are appalling performances and heavy defeats, maybe, but not just losses. It comes down to the manner of the performance - the loss to France was in an acceptable manner, for lack of better wording.

Same as with Gibraltar - just winning doesn't mean much, as that's a formality. It comes down to the manner of the performance, and in the first half that was pretty grim, but we sorted it out.

This is why the match with Greece was seen as such a barometer - it was the only match in the group against a side that we are relatively evenly matched against.

[mypost]

Tbf, I don't think losses to Netherlands and France are automatic sacking material. They are both sides that are just easily better than us. If they get their act together, they should beat us.

Now, if they are appalling performances and heavy defeats, maybe, but not just losses. It comes down to the manner of the performance - the loss to France was in an acceptable manner, for lack of better wording.

Same as with Gibraltar - just winning doesn't mean much, as that's a formality. It comes down to the manner of the performance, and in the first half that was pretty grim, but we sorted it out.

This is why the match with Greece was seen as such a barometer - it was the only match in the group against a side that we are relatively evenly matched against.

No we're not. We've never beaten them, in 20 years of trying. Probably won't beat them at home either.

Results can cover up bad performances. Gibraltar was one such example, the performance was awful, but you don't have to play well to beat them.

The team is woeful, especially at the beginning of international windows, then makes modest improvements as time goes on. Then they break up, and the process repeats itself in the next window. The only consistency is in the demands that the manager be sacked.

The next game is France away. Not really the No. 1 choice for a washed up ex-English manager hired on a king's ransom salary, to boot it 50 yards away from our own goal, and make an instant impact.

[EalingGreen]

This is why the match with Greece was seen as such a barometer - it was the only match in the group against a side that we are relatively evenly matched against.

No we're not. We've never beaten them, in 20 years of trying.

If FIFA Rankings are anything to go by, the two teams would appear to be very evenly matched:

IRL: Current Ranking 49, Average Ranking 33; Highest Ranking 6; Lowest Ranking 70;
GRE: Current Ranking 52, Average Ranking 31; Highest Ranking 8; Lowest Ranking 66.
https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/IRL
https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/GRE

Sometimes you just get what appear to be "bogey" teams, especially when it involves so tiny a sample size as 4 games, with 3 of them friendlies, and never more than a goal between the two sides:
https://www.11v11.com/teams/republic-of-ireland/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Greece/

[CraftyToePoke]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/stephen-kenny-to-stay-in-charge-of-ireland-for-crunch-september-qualifiers/a702337485.html

CEO Jonathan Hill and Director of Football Marc Canham fed their input into discussions and it’s understood that each board member offered their say, with sources indicating that the ‘strong consensus’ was that Kenny should lead the team into the autumn.

There had been speculation that the Dubliner was on the ropes following the difficult defeat in Athens that left Ireland without a point after two Euro 2024 games but once the dust settled on the initial disappointment, there was never a genuine anticipation that the FAI would seek to make a change at this juncture.

...................

It goes on to speak about the by now persistent reports of who's turn it will be next.

Essentially nothing that wasn't known or deduced already, not the right time from any angle, by any vested interest party to be switching up.

[mypost]

There is speculation about his future after every single game, so nothing new there. It's a disgrace that people just won't allow him any leeway to do the job. McCarthy's friends in the media wrote him off before his very first game.

We win, he has to be sacked.
We don't win, he has to be sacked.
We win with a scrappy performance, and he still has to be sacked.

Win or not in Greece, we still had zero chance of qualification out of this group. This is the worst Irish squad in living memory, and results demonstrate that. So this is another development campaign to build a side capable of taking it's place at the top table of international football into the future.

[Diggs246]

[QUOTE=mypost;2152778]There is speculation about his future after every single game, so nothing new there. It's a disgrace that people just won't allow him any leeway to do the job. McCarthy's friends in the media wrote him off before his very first game.

We win, he has to be sacked.
We don't win, he has to be sacked.
We win with a scrappy performance, and he still has to be sacked.

Win or not in Greece, we still had zero chance of qualification out of this group. This is the worst Irish squad in living memory, and results demonstrate that. So this is another development campaign to build a side capable of taking it's place at the top table of international football into the future.[/QUOTE

No leeway! Thanks for the gag I needed a laugh

[texidub]

I wouldn't be slagging off the players as a way to boost Kenny. More players in the Premiership now too, so some top managers seem to disagree about their capabilities. I know Brady said the same thing, and I respect his view, but I think the early/mid 80s were worse, with players at top clubs just not performing consistently for Ireland. Which is worse, less glamorous players playing the best they can or top players not performing as they should? I think the current crop of players deserve more slack and respect.

[Razors left peg]

Its not that long ago we were playing Cyrus Christie or Paul Green in midfield and Ronan Curtis up front, so I dont buy the worst ever squad in our history stuff. Its definitely a young squad though. I dont know the average ages exactly but I think there is a big difference to the average age of the end of MON era/Mick 2nd stint, to what it is today. So my thoughts on it are that its a squad that is still a work in progress but with a potential big upside, whereas some of the older squads of recent history had a feeling that we are going nowhere.

Of course the big debate is whether the manager is the right one to continue taking the squad forward and that debate keeps going around in circles. Chances are that this will be his last campaign so I do think its important that the next manager is not just a defensive old fashioned coach. Obviously some of the players need to start realizing their potential at club level and hope that translates to the international game