Stephen Kenny

[third policeman]

I was ok with keeping Kenny if it meant Barry was also kept on board. With Barry gone and no replacement, it's crazy to give a new contract to Kenny.

Look, I hope I'm way off but Kenny has shown to me that he doesn't belong close to this level. Without Barry, our rankings were falling off a cliff. It can take years to recover from that.

If Kenny flops without Barry, then we’ll know who to credit for the improvement. If that happens we could always appoint Barry to the top job if he’d take it. We’ll know soon enough in any case.

[Paddy Garcia]

I still worry about Kenny's judgement. I suspect Barry has made a real difference to recent performances and the improvements.

I could never figure out why Kenny did not include Cullen in the squad (should have made the team) to play Bulgaria. Cullen was man of the match against the same opposition on his debut. Appreciate it subsequently changed with withdrawls.

It was such a terrible lack of judgement, it really knocked my faith in him. Anyway hope the improvement continues.

[paul_oshea]

We didn’t have our strongest team out but in the second half they had 3-4-2-1 against us and they had Reece James and (Bukayo) Saka as the wing-backs, with (Jadon) Sancho and (Jack) Grealish both flying as their two 10s.

This was interesting to read, Kenny says it like he was forced into this formation but he always played a 4-3-3 or in a similar to the above. I don't quite get what he's saying he was the one who said he didn't prefer and hadn't use(or words to that effect) 3 at the back in a 3-5-2 or similar style formation. So what's he getting at here? The improvements didn't come after that game and there had been none up to that point bar one half decent away performance.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/stephen-kenny-insists-i-was-never-worried-for-my-job-i-had-a-clear-vision-41433949.html

[mypost]

Absolute disgraceful decision to give Kenny a new contract. Who's the new coach? With Barry gone that appointment is vital. Why offer a contract when that's not sorted?

Pre Anthony Barry, we were a shambles. If we don't get a good coach we'll go back to that again. How long will we have to keep living the fantasy that Kenny is actually capable of managing at anything close to this level?

The demand last time was simple. Beat Luxembourg or go. We beat Luxembourg, so he is still here. It shouldn't be that straight forward but that's what the sceptics demanded, and the win was duly delivered.

Never mind, they'll tell us that he now has 6 more games to keep his job, or how ever many more there are in the NL. That group has already become a sham, with at least 2, possibly 4 games having to be postponed, possibly not rescheduled, so if that is the case, he needs longer than that to make his mark until the end of the qualifiers for the Euros.

[Eirambler]

That's how football management works I'm afraid. Especially international football management where there are fewer games each season.

Kenny remains under pressure because his managerial record (4 wins in 20, all wins coming against teams outside the top 50 in the world rankings) hasn't been good enough to give him any breathing space. Knocked out in the first game of his Euros playoff, and scraped a distant third in both the last Nations League and the WC qualifiers.

Until we sustained improvement he will remain under pressure and, while we obviously all want the best for him as Ireland manager, if the next Nations League is another poor one where we're closer to Armenia than Scotland (leaving Ukraine out of it for now obviously) then the questions about his future will need to be asked again.

[mypost]

There has been sustained improvement, with just 1 loss in 10 games. Our win record is poor, but it has been poor for the past 5 years. We have never won a NL game, and we won't win many in the short term. We need to think beyond get out clauses and the next campaign if we want to make long term progress. That starts at the top.

[Snapshot]

There has been sustained improvement, with just 1 loss in 10 games. Our win record is poor, but it has been poor for the past 5 years. We have never won a NL game, and we won't win many in the short term. We need to think beyond get out clauses and the next campaign if we want to make long term progress. That starts at the top.
So you're saying that despite such as Bazunu/Kelleher/Travis, Duffy, Egan, O'Shea, Collins, Coleman, Knight, Cullen, Doherty, Hendrick, Robinson - and a plethora of youngsters touted for good careers - we'll remain NL strugglers against countries ranked similarly? Are you also tossing the Euros qualifiers to the gods of the long-term project?

[Eirambler]

As long as the bar is always set low enough, failure is impossible.

[John83]

As long as the bar is always set low enough, failure is impossible.
I wish my performance review at work was judged on my results in 2028 too.

[paul_oshea]

I wish my performance review at work was judged on my results in 2028 too.

I've been using this one for a while now, it works and seems to get me constant renewals, all about the long term objectives. Like most good employers they are happy to wait on the longer term goals.

[LurcherLover]

Haven't been on any social media platforms in a long time but I'd imagine this is what Facebook etc are like? Is this forum just full of wee *****s making snide comments all the time?

[John83]

If you have a problem with a post, report it.

[mypost]

So you're saying that despite such as Bazunu/Kelleher/Travis, Duffy, Egan, O'Shea, Collins, Coleman, Knight, Cullen, Doherty, Hendrick, Robinson - and a plethora of youngsters touted for good careers - we'll remain NL strugglers against countries ranked similarly? Are you also tossing the Euros qualifiers to the gods of the long-term project?

The NL doesn't matter tbh. If we win the group, it doesn't mean we're off to Germany, and if we finish last, it doesn't mean we'll miss the boat.

Since Trap left, we've endured years of football misery on the pitch and financial mismanagement off it. The man in charge at the time has had his future constantly questioned. What we need now is stability and patience. We're 2 years into a transition project to unravel twenty years of failure and underachievement at international level. Every nation has to go through it at some point. Belgium have done it, Holland have done it, Iceland have done it, Finland have done it, Macedonia have done it, think longer than the next campaign. That's what we need to do.

[Supreme feet]

So you're saying that despite such as Bazunu/Kelleher/Travis, Duffy, Egan, O'Shea, Collins, Coleman, Knight, Cullen, Doherty, Hendrick, Robinson - and a plethora of youngsters touted for good careers - we'll remain NL strugglers against countries ranked similarly? Are you also tossing the Euros qualifiers to the gods of the long-term project?


When Kenny took over, Bazunu, Kelleher, O'Shea, Collins and Knight were uncapped, and Cullen hadn't made a competitive debut. Duffy was woefully out of form. Hendrick hadn't played a half-decent game for us in four years. Robinson had scored one goal in twelve caps. Accomodating Doherty and Coleman in the same team had been beyond both O'Neill and McCarthy.

To add to that, we were still picking the likes of O'Dowda, Curtis, Horgan and Maguire, and hoping for Brady and McCarthy to get back to their best. No-one was calling for the likes of Omobamidele, McGrath or Ogbene to be included in squads, let alone expecting them to add to the team.

Now we're talking about the current lads as a solid, competitive Irish squad, which we should be expecting to qualify for the fourth Euros in our history, and deem anything less as failure.

I suppose Kenny deserves no credit for any of that?

[pineapple stu]

We've just had our worst qualifying campaign in half a century and aren't in the top 24 sides in UEFA, but we should be expecting to qualify for the Euros?

I don't buy that. Yes, we're improving, but we don't even know how much Barry's departure will affect things.

Hopeful yes. Maybe even quietly confident. But we can't be expectant I think.

[osarusan]

Now we're talking about the current lads as a solid, competitive Irish squad, which we should be expecting to qualify for the fourth Euros in our history, and deem anything less as failure.

Who is expecting anything like that?

[Snapshot]

When Kenny took over, Bazunu, Kelleher, O'Shea, Collins and Knight were uncapped, and Cullen hadn't made a competitive debut. Duffy was woefully out of form. Hendrick hadn't played a half-decent game for us in four years. Robinson had scored one goal in twelve caps. Accomodating Doherty and Coleman in the same team had been beyond both O'Neill and McCarthy.

To add to that, we were still picking the likes of O'Dowda, Curtis, Horgan and Maguire, and hoping for Brady and McCarthy to get back to their best. No-one was calling for the likes of Omobamidele, McGrath or Ogbene to be included in squads, let alone expecting them to add to the team.

Now we're talking about the current lads as a solid, competitive Irish squad, which we should be expecting to qualify for the fourth Euros in our history, and deem anything less as failure.

I suppose Kenny deserves no credit for any of that?
But Kenny himself is talking the talk. He has stated his ambitions for the NL. As for the Euros, is it too much to expect we won't be floored after two games? Also, are we to believe another manager would not have courted a possession-based strategy, would have failed to introduce promising youngsters and would have only two dead-rubber wins over minnows? I sincerely hope SK comes good but an underwhelming NL, in whatever form it takes, would be difficult to defend. But, no doubt, you'll find a way.

[Supreme feet]

The more unfair criticism of Kenny, as far as I've seen, is based purely on results. 'We didn't push Portugal and Serbia like we should have. That kind of record got Kerr, Stan, Trap and MON sacked, why should it be different for Kenny? Tippy tappy football and bringing in young players is a handy way of getting goodwill from naive fans and media, and escaping accountability for results.' That says to me that a good chunk of our fanbase thinks we should expect to be competitive for the top two places in groups, regardless of how mediocre our players are.

When Kenny took the job, I thought we had the worst playing pool I've ever seen, in my thirty years of following this team. I didn't see any hope at all, apart from the form of the U21s. I was willing to be patient, and take the pain for a couple of years, while Kenny tried to change the culture and personnel, restore some confidence and build some momentum to take into future campaigns, and turn us into a 21st century football team.

That was a huge ask in itself, but it looks, tentatively, like he's done just that. I think the side now looks purposeful, dynamic, and competently coached. Some of the young players have taken very well to international football, we've found a few rough diamonds (Ogbene, McGrath), and the older players (McClean, Hendrick, Doherty) have been played into the kind of form that seemed beyond them in 2020. That's why Kenny's keeping his job.

It's similar to how Mick McCarthy kept his job in 1998 after failing to qualify, losing to Macedonia, drawing at home to Lithuania, etc - because there were signs of improvement and promise, and young players starting to find their feet.

Now, I'm happy to concede that we need to be properly competitive in the next Euros group in order for Kenny to justify the FAI's decision. A playoff for the Euros would be around two years from now - plenty of time for the younger lads to improve further, plug the gaps in the squad, and hopefully find/develop a decent international striker. Slipping up against 4th/5th seeds won't do. Going down meekly in a playoff against a beatable side won't do.

[Eirambler]

Happy to go with the McCarthy analogy but important to remember that in his second campaign we were something like 13 seconds away from qualifying for a 16 team Euros. That level of performance would easily have qualified us had it been a 24 team competition - we came second in the group. I think that reinforces that the target for Kenny is Euro 2024, no excuses. The Nations League didn't exist in the late 90s of course but will give us a good idea this time of whether we're moving in the right direction or not - I'd say 8 months from now we'll have a fair idea one way or the other.

[tetsujin1979]

McCarthy never finished lower than second in a group either, along with introducing the new players that were improving the side

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Plus McCarthy came very close to automatic qualification in a group with Denmark and Switzerland. Kenny lost the euro play off, had a nightmare nations league and got knocked out of world cup qualifying effectively after 2 games.

Reading posts like supreme feets and some reports in the media, you'd assume the records of McCarthy and Kenny were the other way around.

[SkStu]

McCarthy never finished lower than second in a group either, along with introducing the new players that were improving the side

The base standard of player was so much higher though for McCarthy, surely?

[Eirambler]

The 98 qualifying campaign squad was a bit of a mess - a mix of aging stalwarts, injuried players who should have been in their prime and raw young lads, some of which just weren't good enough or were played badly out of position (Ian Harte at centre back!)

Some similarities to our last campaign to be honest - though we were strangely weak at centre back which is unusual for us. We were much stronger in midfield though.

[SkStu]

I actually went and had a look... the quality of player was night and day as compared to what SK inherited.

https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/irland-team/wm-quali-europa-1996-1997/2/

And heres the first 11 he selected: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/0319/1037350-where-are-they-now-mick-mccarthys-first-ireland-xi/

On the first link though - Ned Weir? :D

[Fixer82]

I actually went and had a look... the quality of player was night and day as compared to what SK inherited.

https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/irland-team/wm-quali-europa-1996-1997/2/

And heres the first 11 he selected: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/0319/1037350-where-are-they-now-mick-mccarthys-first-ireland-xi/

On the first link though - Ned Weir? :D

Yep!
Was only retired 50 years but still able to put in a shift off the bench

[Eminence Grise]

Time was a random thing like that would spawn a good page of posts on his exploits for Termonbarry Alberts/Hibs... Or head-wrecking puns linking him with Conor Sammon...Ah, the glory days of foot.ie.

[Trequartista20]

The 98 qualifying campaign squad was a bit of a mess - a mix of aging stalwarts, injuried players who should have been in their prime and raw young lads, some of which just weren't good enough or were played badly out of position (Ian Harte at centre back!)

Some similarities to our last campaign to be honest - though we were strangely weak at centre back which is unusual for us. We were much stronger in midfield though.

McCarthy made a lot of mistakes in that 98 qualification campaign; he was 36/37 and learning on the job. That said, only the group winners qualified automatically, and Romania won 9 and drew 1 of their ten games. So we were never going to win that group whilst at the same time in a period of transition, through necessity, having to bring in younger players while also trying to inculcate a new style of play. Mick certainly got better as he went along. We became a formidable team under him, and were 13 in the world by the time he left.

[tommy_c12000]

Obafemi scored again. He should be in our next senior squad. I hope the likes of Keane and Hogan don’t get selected ahead of him. He has come into a bit of form and has a far higher ceiling. We have minimal striking options and Obafemi may in fact turn into a reasonable option. Hopefully Kenny won’t be stubborn

[zero]

has to be in the squad on recent form.

[tommy_c12000]

2 goals actually. Surely warrants a call up

[Trequartista20]

6 goals in his last 9 and Idah is unavailable. It would be borderline insane to leave Obafemi out now.

[Eirambler]

He'll get hammered if he doesn't pick him and rightly so. So you've got to think he will have the common sense to quickly add him in, even if he wasn't going to be in the squad as of 8pm this evening.

[ontheotherhand]

He refused a call up to the 21s via his agent talking to Crawford. Apparently because he "sees himself as a senior player", although they may have been Crawford's words. Not sure what he thinks he's going to achieve by trying to force Kenny's hand. Does himself no favours this lad.

[tommy_c12000]

Crawford seems to do a lot of gossiping to the press himself. It’s not helpful. Could do with being more diplomatic

[Eirambler]

Given how isolated Crawford has left his strikers with his team setups this campaign, I wouldn't be tripping over myself for a call up to that team if I was him either.

[ontheotherhand]

Maybe...I could see why he'd become a talisman if you had problems with Kenny.

For me, the lad needs to take whatever call up he gets and show he can work in whatever system he is asked to. He's only just found a bit of form after more than a few years of question marks and he's talking like he's got 10 caps and goals to his name already. We know Crawford and Kenny work together so if they had a plan for him and it started with the 21s then there were reasons for it. Now he's gone and forced Kenny into a corner. Maybe just agent silliness. But doesn't look great.

[pineapple stu]

We know Crawford and Kenny work together so if they had a plan for him and it started with the 21s then there were reasons for it.
I was thinking that alright - if he was called up for the 21s, surely that's because Kenny wasn't going to call him up for the seniors? You'd imagine the two managers would coordinate their squads.

Given how stuck we are up front - and 6 goals in 9 games is far better form than anyone else we have at the moment - it does seem weird to leave him in the 21s.

Still a silly thing for him to do though

[ontheotherhand]

I was thinking that alright - if he was called up for the 21s, surely that's because Kenny wasn't going to call him up for the seniors? You'd imagine the two managers would coordinate their squads.

Given how stuck we are up front - and 6 goals in 9 games is far better form than anyone else we have at the moment - it does seem weird to leave him in the 21s.

Still a silly thing for him to do though

Yeah I was hoping he'd get the call but maybe he always operates through his agent and all their dealings with him are like this so they thought let's see if the lad is humble enough and eager enough to work his way up from the 21s? Maybe he was due to play one 21s game before stepping in for the Lithuania game assuming he showed the right attitude? It's odd all round.

Of course maybe Crawford is making it all up and Michael is just sitting by the phone in his Ireland kit waiting for the call.

[elatedscum]

It does sound like Crawford could have been talking about some point in the past, like him and the agent had that conversation in September or whatever:

“Look, Michael has made it clear to us before that he sees himself as a senior international player. It’s unfortunate from an Under-21s perspective but I’ve had a conversation with his agent and that’s where it’s at,” Crawford said, having previously worked with him at Under-21 level following his senior cap under Martin O’Neill in 2019.

“The last thing I said to the agent was that, if he ever feels that he wants to come to the 21s, don’t hesitate to call because we’ll have a conversation around that. In his own eyes, I think he sees himself as a senior player.

[ontheotherhand]

It does sound like Crawford could have been talking about some point in the past, like him and the agent had that conversation in September or whatever:

“Look, Michael has made it clear to us before that he sees himself as a senior international player. It’s unfortunate from an Under-21s perspective but I’ve had a conversation with his agent and that’s where it’s at,” Crawford said, having previously worked with him at Under-21 level following his senior cap under Martin O’Neill in 2019.

“The last thing I said to the agent was that, if he ever feels that he wants to come to the 21s, don’t hesitate to call because we’ll have a conversation around that. In his own eyes, I think he sees himself as a senior player.

I'm not sure if that sounds better or worse....so he was turning down the 21s while he wasn't in form at club level? You'd think he would've bitten someone's hand off for a cap at any level.

I suppose at least it might indicate that he hasn't explicitly turned down a call up to the 21s this week....by my god he needs a new agent.

[kennedmc]

Obafemi is our form senior striker at the moment and deserves a call up.

Kenny needs to get over whatever he didn't like about him and give him a chance.

He's way past our u21 level. He's right to tell them to f**k off!

[ontheotherhand]

Obafemi is our form senior striker at the moment and deserves a call up.

Kenny needs to get over whatever he didn't like about him and give him a chance.

He's way past our u21 level. He's right to tell them to f**k off!

Yet the lads playing at his level and above accepted the call up happily. There's a way to do things and he seems to continually get it wrong.

I hope everything works out for him but he'd want to have a word with his agent. Playing a few 21s games to show you're willing to work and listen is a small sacrifice at his age. He's done nothing to justify telling anyone to **** off at any level of international football. A bit of form at club level has finally arrived but he has a long way to go to get to that level. It took Keane over a decade and a few trophies I think.

[Diggs246]

"Yet the lads playing at his level and above accepted the call up happily"

I'm not sure this is correct. Smallbone and Evan arnt really first team players.

I agree obefemi is a tulip but the rep of Ireland senior team have a bunch of games coming up and we don't have any strikers in better form then him. Apart from the fact he is on fire he brings real pace which we need big tme. If kenny doesn't call him up its not a good sign that he sticks with will Keane and not obefemi.

[third policeman]

"Yet the lads playing at his level and above accepted the call up happily"

I'm not sure this is correct. Smallbone and Evan arnt really first team players.

I agree obefemi is a tulip but the rep of Ireland senior team have a bunch of games coming up and we don't have any strikers in better form then him. Apart from the fact he is on fire he brings real pace which we need big tme. If kenny doesn't call him up its not a good sign that he sticks with will Keane and not obefemi.

The fact that he was called up to the U21’s indicates that he wasn’t in Kenny’s mind for a call-up to the senior squad. That’s worrying. If he’d accepted the call he’d have missed the chance to play for the seniors, by refusing it he gives Kenny the excuse for not calling him up. I’ll be very pleasantly surprised if he is in the squad.This is no way to treat a player who merits selection and provides us with a better striking option than what’s otherwise available.

[kennedmc]

Yet the lads playing at his level and above accepted the call up happily. There's a way to do things and he seems to continually get it wrong.

I hope everything works out for him but he'd want to have a word with his agent. Playing a few 21s games to show you're willing to work and listen is a small sacrifice at his age. He's done nothing to justify telling anyone to **** off at any level of international football. A bit of form at club level has finally arrived but he has a long way to go to get to that level. It took Keane over a decade and a few trophies I think.

There's no unwritten rules about having to earn your dues by playing for tbe 21s first.
A stint for what in the U21s?

He is our best senior striker on current form.

Kenny needs to win football matches and to do that he should pick the players on current form thst will give us the best chance to do that.

[passinginterest]

Good to see most of the striking options actually scoring this week anyway. Obafemi, Connolly, Robinson and Keane all on the scoresheet. Would imagine they’ll likely all be in the squad along with Parrott seeing as he’s broken his duck too. Nice to have options in some form this time around at least.

[Demesne Lad]

There's no unwritten rules about having to earn your dues by playing for tbe 21s first.
A stint for what in the U21s?

He is our best senior striker on current form.

Kenny needs to win football matches and to do that he should pick the players on current form thst will give us the best chance to do that.

Granted, L1 is not the Championship, but Keane's 18 goals in 34 games must count for something. Consistency is a useful attribute in a striker.

[elatedscum]

Any idea when the squad announcement is? Pretty much always around 1pm on the Thursday… maybe a delay due to Patrick’s day but with another bank holiday Friday, who knows…

[Kingdom]

Given how isolated Crawford has left his strikers with his team setups this campaign, I wouldn't be tripping over myself for a call up to that team if I was him either.

That is a really important to point.

Evan Ferguson looked so out of his depth in Luxembourg - due to the fact he was so isolated - at a time when he was lighting up PL2.

[Kingdom]

Obafemi is our form senior striker at the moment and deserves a call up.

Kenny needs to get over whatever he didn't like about him and give him a chance.

He's way past our u21 level. He's right to tell them to f**k off!

Did you see him with the 21s in his last appearance? "Sh!te" would do a total disservice to previous Sh!te performances.